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Why so much hate for SWTOR?

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  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    ROFL, apparently as a SWG fan i am supposed to hate SW:TOR, guess i should revoke the subscription i've had for years then. SW:TOR represents the only Starwars game out there thats currently worth playing, if your a fan of Starwars, then why would you hate it? personally i think blaming SWG fans is just another random excuse picked out from peoples behinds.
    From what i have seen in SW:TOR the game is doing just fine, personally i think if there is any hate going on for the game, then its from the very same crowd that hates on games like WoW, with equally spurious reasoning. :p
    Octagon7711
  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,201
    My personal top 5

    • Too many dialogue scenes that take me out of the game world and interrupt my adventuring flow
    • The game world itself feels small and confined like i'm playing inside a box on rails
    • Far too story driven and not enough off the path exploration opportunities
    • Not a fan of the Old Republic timeline and would have preferred a post Vader one
    • Combat still feels sluggish to me
    I'm a huge Star Wars fan, like anyone else who grew up in the late 70's and early 80's. I'd love to inhabit this universe in some form of an MMORPG. This just wasn't the game i was looking for.
  • NasaNasa Member UncommonPosts: 716
    The many and heavy f2p restrictions makes it close to unplayable or at least not as enjoyable as you would expect even for a f2p game. So you move on to more enjoyable f2p games or pay.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Nasa said:
    The many and heavy f2p restrictions makes it close to unplayable or at least not as enjoyable as you would expect even for a f2p game. So you move on to more enjoyable f2p games or pay.
    Its really a subscription game, the 'Free' part is really just 'free to try', honestly, why do some people have such a problem paying for things?
    At least SW:TOR you can try it extensively and get an idea of whether or not your going to enjoy the game before you risk a single penny, and thats a bad thing apparently, heaven forbid that a company actually put a game out there and not try and trick people into spending money before finding out whether the game is any good or not. :p
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    I will cop to being an SWG vet who hates SWTOR because it doesn't bug me when that old taunt is trotted out. t's the truth so why should I be anything but comfortable with the reasons for my immense and long lived dislike for the thing that came after SWG. In truth though, I have my SWG loyalist reasons for hating SWTOR, but I also have completely independent reasons for hating it. I was excited to play it, bought a collector's edition, etc. I was ready for a new Star Wars MMO. In the span of four months I watched the game crater, saw five guilds die, realized everything that hourglass expanded upon in the earlier post, and watched the dev team play Iraqi Information Minister about the whole debacle. 

    I think SWTOR remains my my most hated MMORPG because the people responsible seem to think they have created the cure for cancer when what they did was create the path of least interest theme park skeleton. Then they doubled down on their bad cutscene idea and the game became a punch in the dick aimed at MMORPG enthusiasts. A joke made all the more insulting because people pay to keep it alive and sucking away at the teat of the IP.

    What if we took an MMORPG and made it about just being a solo guy with an NPC buddy who through cutscenes is told he is the most awesome guy in the universe. In essence, the narrative in SWTOR is completely disconnected with the game world, which is completely disconnected from itself in every way possible. There is nothing persistent about the game concerning the world that the players inhabit save for the canned content. It's like being stuck in a shopping mall after it closes.

    I used to play single player games until MMORPGs came out, and then I found those to be much more rewarding. SWTOR attempts to essentially retard the growth of the genre into an SPRPG hybrid that provides them with the easiest way to milk the license they have for the least effort. SWTOR kills two birds with one stone: MMORPGs and Star Wars.


    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,771
    It struck me as an incredibly generic and linear themepark MMO.  Probably encountered more hallways in the game than I have in any MMO outside of maybe Neverwinter.  Huge budget and tons of time created big expectations for something that turned out to be below average or average at best.

    They spent tons on voicework but I find the voiceactors pretty crummy and the writing downright silly at times.  Not to mention I don't play games, especially online ones, to watch cut-scenes.  

    Combat was extremely meh and pvp was a stunlock-fest.

    Only cool thing about it was that it is star wars, and I guess it has a lot of content (although when it's all crap who cares?).
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,575
    Perfectly decent MMO, not that many around that we can afford to knock them.
  • Saur0n69Saur0n69 Member UncommonPosts: 44
    The stories and cut scenes are cool and the graphics and sound are sweet but the mechanics are all screwy and PvP is some of the worst I've ever seen.  It is a decent mmorpg if you sub or used to sub but the base f2p system seriously sucks...
  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,399
    NorseGod said:

    2. I check everyone in the group for the Legendary Icon next to their nametag.


    That one line right there has an elitist feel to it.  Not all people want to play every class.  It doesn't mean they don't know how to play their class.  If fact it could just mean the opposite and mean they know that class better than you do.  Having the Legendary Icon means nothing except you played through storylines as a single player.  I have the tag but would never not group with someone who doesn't because I feel I am better than them because I have it.  Everything else you wrote went right out the window as soon as I read this when talking about group content.  What is sad is I most likely would have agreed to much of it but can't take someone serious when they use a single player icon to judge group play.
  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,399
    I think most people hated on SWTOR because it was designed more as a single player game than and true group play MMO.  Sure it has group elements but you could do most of them solo without much effort.  Other than that when the f2p hit it was the most restrictive of any game out.  It didn't really allow for much other than just seeing the stories, anything else was extra money.  They have pretty much dropped the whole idea of group play now it seems with the storylines they are creating.  No new OP or any of that stuff incoming any time soon.  For what it is it is a great MMO for getting away and just enjoying some lore and stories.  I resub to it all the time to see new content stories and relax a little.  I don't take this game serious at all, it is my get away game.
  • BakgrindBakgrind Member UncommonPosts: 422
    Alders said:
    My personal top 5

    • Too many dialogue scenes that take me out of the game world and interrupt my adventuring flow
    • The game world itself feels small and confined like i'm playing inside a box on rails
    • Far too story driven and not enough off the path exploration opportunities
    • Not a fan of the Old Republic timeline and would have preferred a post Vader one
    • Combat still feels sluggish to me
    I'm a huge Star Wars fan, like anyone else who grew up in the late 70's and early 80's. I'd love to inhabit this universe in some form of an MMORPG. This just wasn't the game i was looking for.
    That's a very concise list you have there.  I  agree with all you had said there and while there is nothing out there in the Star Wars universe for people that would like to see a post Vader game there is something that is on the horizon . Visceral Games is working on a new Star Wars IP and from the concept art appears to be one that is going forward in the Star Wars story instead of backwards. Of course we don't know if it is a MMO, COOP or RPG type game at the moment and only time will tell. But there is something in the works.
  • WarlyxWarlyx Member EpicPosts: 3,150
    k61977 said:
    I think most people hated on SWTOR because it was designed more as a single player game than and true group play MMO.  Sure it has group elements but you could do most of them solo without much effort.  Other than that when the f2p hit it was the most restrictive of any game out.  It didn't really allow for much other than just seeing the stories, anything else was extra money.  They have pretty much dropped the whole idea of group play now it seems with the storylines they are creating.  No new OP or any of that stuff incoming any time soon.  For what it is it is a great MMO for getting away and just enjoying some lore and stories.  I resub to it all the time to see new content stories and relax a little.  I don't take this game serious at all, it is my get away game.
    +1

    they are selling "single player DLC" and on top of that sellling things on the cash shop (casino boxes everywhere!) ...no other single player game can do that ;)
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,429
    edited October 2016
    Hmmm, let me see. I loved WoW but did not care about SWTOR. Why?

    -Static worlds that are also tiny. They are purely backdrops without any life.
    -Combat does not feel weighty and impactful.
    -So much focus on story that it takes away from actually playing constantly.
    -I really dislike companions, I prefer playing 1 character.
    -Boring missions.
    -Bland dungeons.

    If I want a great gameworld I play WoW, if I want a great story I play TSW. I can find everything better in other games which leaves SWTOR as average, something worsee then plain bad somehow. At least then it evokes some kind of emotion.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 

    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Paying for 1 month sub removes a lot of the restrictions people complain about. Permanently
    Agent_Joseph
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,429
    filmoret said:
    Paying for 1 month sub removes a lot of the restrictions people complain about. Permanently
    This is very true and something more people should be aware of!

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558
    lahnmir said:
    filmoret said:
    Paying for 1 month sub removes a lot of the restrictions people complain about. Permanently
    This is very true and something more people should be aware of!

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir

    Interesting, can you elaborate.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,331
    I think a lot of the hate specifically on this site stems from bitter SWG vets.  Their mmo got shut down and an mmo that they don't particularly enjoy replaced it.  

    Personally, I enjoy SWTOR and go back to it at least once a year for a few months.  It is what it is and I have fun playing it.  
    SWG fans definitely make up a good chunk of the haters.  SWTOR had the best leveling up experience I've ever had (first character per faction that is).  Although I haven't played TSW which supposedly tops it.

    They got my disdain at launch though due to a poorly optimized engine and letting PVP exploiters on that planet off scott free.  They also didn't have automated group finders or space combat, which was pretty damn stupid.  but they wanted that holiday release I guess.

    I don't hate it, I just don't think it does anything at level cap better than what's out there.  And I think leveling multiple characters of a faction is super tedious as it requires doing 80% repeated content.
    These are fair points.  Not sure if you've played it in a while, but they changed the 1-50 level up experience.  Now you can basically just do the main story quest and the main planet Story quest on each planet and avoid all the side quests if you wish and still make it to 50 with no problem.  This definitely makes it a lot easier to level on multiply characters.  This is of course if you are subbing (can't speak for F2P players since I always sub when I play).
    I returned briefly when they had 7x XP for story based quests to level an alt but got bored.  I'm unlikely to sub jsut to level alts though.  I will return at some pointthough.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Soki123 said:
    lahnmir said:
    filmoret said:
    Paying for 1 month sub removes a lot of the restrictions people complain about. Permanently
    This is very true and something more people should be aware of!

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir

    Interesting, can you elaborate.
    The only restrictions I feel is the limited battlezones and starfighter instances.  Then of course the expansions.  Other then that I do not feel restricted at all because I paid for a month and unlocked a bunch of stuff.

    Just off the top of my head they changed CD of teleport to 6 minutes and starfleet pass to 1.5 hours.  You can have 3 companions gathering and 2 professions but I think that has always been.  I think total I have subbed to this game 3 months over the past 5 years.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    edited October 2016
    k61977 said:
    I think most people hated on SWTOR because it was designed more as a single player game than and true group play MMO.  Sure it has group elements but you could do most of them solo without much effort.  Other than that when the f2p hit it was the most restrictive of any game out.  It didn't really allow for much other than just seeing the stories, anything else was extra money.  They have pretty much dropped the whole idea of group play now it seems with the storylines they are creating.  No new OP or any of that stuff incoming any time soon.  For what it is it is a great MMO for getting away and just enjoying some lore and stories.  I resub to it all the time to see new content stories and relax a little.  I don't take this game serious at all, it is my get away game.
    SWTOR was not a very solo friendly game at launch, it wasn't that much solo friendly until 4.0 last year actually (3.0 Marauder was an agonizing experience might I add). The majority of players aren't elite players, SWTOR wasn't solo friendly to them. Lots of players had to group just to go through class story/planet storyline related bosses that were supposed to be soloable (I helped lots of guildies with that). Killing stuff took way too much time for the number you had to kill just to travel around. Alderaan had that random difficulty bump. Heroics and Flashpoints were not solo content even if some Heroics could be soloed by avoiding mobs (or overleveling) or "solo" Flashpoint by overleveling them. Only a few classes really had an easy time (tank and stealth). The story aspect had CO-OP support until they released KotFK last year too.

     SWTOR wasn't originally designed as a single player game, the players played it like a single player game like every other MMOs they play because grouping with strangers sucks.
    Octagon7711
  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,399
    azarhal said:
    k61977 said:
    I think most people hated on SWTOR because it was designed more as a single player game than and true group play MMO.  Sure it has group elements but you could do most of them solo without much effort.  Other than that when the f2p hit it was the most restrictive of any game out.  It didn't really allow for much other than just seeing the stories, anything else was extra money.  They have pretty much dropped the whole idea of group play now it seems with the storylines they are creating.  No new OP or any of that stuff incoming any time soon.  For what it is it is a great MMO for getting away and just enjoying some lore and stories.  I resub to it all the time to see new content stories and relax a little.  I don't take this game serious at all, it is my get away game.
    SWTOR was not a very solo friendly game at launch, it wasn't that much solo friendly until 4.0 last year actually (3.0 Marauder was an agonizing experience might I add). The majority of players aren't elite players, SWTOR wasn't solo friendly to them. Lots of players had to group just to go through class story/planet storyline related bosses that were supposed to be soloable (I helped lots of guildies with that). Killing stuff took way too much time for the number you had to kill just to travel around. Alderaan had that random difficulty bump. Heroics and Flashpoints were not solo content even if some Heroics could be soloed by avoiding mobs (or overleveling) or "solo" Flashpoint by overleveling them. Only a few classes really had an easy time (tank and stealth). The story aspect had CO-OP support until they released KotFK last year too.

     SWTOR wasn't originally designed as a single player game, the players played it like a single player game like every other MMOs they play because grouping with strangers sucks.
    It was very much solo friendly at launch for people that took their time and didn't try to rush through things.  The only people that I really remember saying it was hard were the ones that rush thru content skipping everything they could.  Those people didn't have good gear and normally were not prepared going into anything.  I remember going into the first flashpoint and having a guy show up with gear from the first couple quest still on.  It is those people that had hard times.

    Marauders are my least favorite class to begin with for me.  I don't like melee at all really.  Melee classes had it rougher than all the others, that I will give you. 

    Bounter hunters, sith inqusitor, sniper all finished up to 50 the first 6 to 7 months for me and I didn't really group all that much.  Hardly anyone I knew really grouped for anything other than a random heroic quest or instance.  Sorry the game was so hard for you but for many it just wasn't. 

    4.0 pretty much just slammed the lid on not being single player game, as that is what it is now and they are not trying to hide it anymore with the release of the last xpac and the upcoming one in Dec.  They have basically turned this game into Kotor III now which to me isn't really a bad thing.



  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    k61977 said:
    azarhal said:
    k61977 said:
    I think most people hated on SWTOR because it was designed more as a single player game than and true group play MMO.  Sure it has group elements but you could do most of them solo without much effort.  Other than that when the f2p hit it was the most restrictive of any game out.  It didn't really allow for much other than just seeing the stories, anything else was extra money.  They have pretty much dropped the whole idea of group play now it seems with the storylines they are creating.  No new OP or any of that stuff incoming any time soon.  For what it is it is a great MMO for getting away and just enjoying some lore and stories.  I resub to it all the time to see new content stories and relax a little.  I don't take this game serious at all, it is my get away game.
    SWTOR was not a very solo friendly game at launch, it wasn't that much solo friendly until 4.0 last year actually (3.0 Marauder was an agonizing experience might I add). The majority of players aren't elite players, SWTOR wasn't solo friendly to them. Lots of players had to group just to go through class story/planet storyline related bosses that were supposed to be soloable (I helped lots of guildies with that). Killing stuff took way too much time for the number you had to kill just to travel around. Alderaan had that random difficulty bump. Heroics and Flashpoints were not solo content even if some Heroics could be soloed by avoiding mobs (or overleveling) or "solo" Flashpoint by overleveling them. Only a few classes really had an easy time (tank and stealth). The story aspect had CO-OP support until they released KotFK last year too.

     SWTOR wasn't originally designed as a single player game, the players played it like a single player game like every other MMOs they play because grouping with strangers sucks.
    It was very much solo friendly at launch for people that took their time and didn't try to rush through things.  The only people that I really remember saying it was hard were the ones that rush thru content skipping everything they could.  Those people didn't have good gear and normally were not prepared going into anything.  I remember going into the first flashpoint and having a guy show up with gear from the first couple quest still on.  It is those people that had hard times.

    Marauders are my least favorite class to begin with for me.  I don't like melee at all really.  Melee classes had it rougher than all the others, that I will give you. 

    Bounter hunters, sith inqusitor, sniper all finished up to 50 the first 6 to 7 months for me and I didn't really group all that much.  Hardly anyone I knew really grouped for anything other than a random heroic quest or instance.  Sorry the game was so hard for you but for many it just wasn't. 

    4.0 pretty much just slammed the lid on not being single player game, as that is what it is now and they are not trying to hide it anymore with the release of the last xpac and the upcoming one in Dec.  They have basically turned this game into Kotor III now which to me isn't really a bad thing.



    I agree with Azarhal here.  Yes there was like 2 classes where the game was easy but the rest struggled.  I had to keep all my modified gear updated like every 4 levels or I wouldn't survive 1 fight without using healing packs.  And that was with several different classes.  Rarely I could do a 2 person heroic but it was few and far between.  Not like it is now everyone can easymode all 1-55 content with the OP companion.  Even 4 person heroics.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    filmoret said:
    I agree with Azarhal here.  Yes there was like 2 classes where the game was easy but the rest struggled.  I had to keep all my modified gear updated like every 4 levels or I wouldn't survive 1 fight without using healing packs.  And that was with several different classes.  Rarely I could do a 2 person heroic but it was few and far between.  Not like it is now everyone can easymode all 1-55 content with the OP companion.  Even 4 person heroics.
    4 person heroics don't exist anymore. They re-balanced them into Heroic 2 in 4.0 and in a lot of cases changed 2 silvers + 1 gold mobs into 2 normals + 1 silver making it easier than a few class/planet questing.

    Going by K61977, it seems he played Imperial and from experience Imperial had it easier (minus Mara in 3.0 which hit stuff with wet noodles). Basically the Imperial vs Republic encounter design is just like The Black Talon vs The Essless: half the trash mobs, including in boss fights, to kill for the Imperials.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 8,732
    I havent played it in quite awhile tbh but when I did play it the game felt like a single player game and not a MMO...I know they have supposedly put in some multiplayer quests and dungeons now, but i imagine it still feels like a story driven themepark for mainly solo play.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    azarhal said:
    filmoret said:
    I agree with Azarhal here.  Yes there was like 2 classes where the game was easy but the rest struggled.  I had to keep all my modified gear updated like every 4 levels or I wouldn't survive 1 fight without using healing packs.  And that was with several different classes.  Rarely I could do a 2 person heroic but it was few and far between.  Not like it is now everyone can easymode all 1-55 content with the OP companion.  Even 4 person heroics.
    4 person heroics don't exist anymore. They re-balanced them into Heroic 2 in 4.0 and in a lot of cases changed 2 silvers + 1 gold mobs into 2 normals + 1 silver making it easier than a few class/planet questing.

    Going by K61977, it seems he played Imperial and from experience Imperial had it easier (minus Mara in 3.0 which hit stuff with wet noodles). Basically the Imperial vs Republic encounter design is just like The Black Talon vs The Essless: half the trash mobs, including in boss fights, to kill for the Imperials.
    I think you missed where he was explaining what the game once was and not what it is today.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,222
    I heard a rumor that all companions are exactly the same?  I hope this rumor is incorrect.
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