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Would you be interested in a Wild West-themed game? (SPECIFICS)

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Comments

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,567
    I find it interesting that the number of players interested almost halved when given the specific rules. I suspect the inclusion of what amounts to permadeath might have a lot to do with that.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    @4507 - So the way I personally prefer is called horizontal progression. A good analogy is the original Guild Wars. You reached maxed level with the strongest gear about halfway through the game by that time you had a solid set of skills and a solid build. But there were still probably hundreds of skills for your build you could pick up. These weren't better skills, they were different skills, that allowed more customization. My strongest and most often used build actually used 7 skills I got before level 20 and one skill I picked up after that point. I still loved hunting down skills for build experimentation though.

    So horizontal progression is anything that allows you to continue building on your character without actually giving it a straight boost in strength.

    I have some ideas I've been planning to put down for the ideal MMO I would love to design someday. Build capabilities would be strongly tied to carried items and there would be major downsides to carrying too many items. I think these ideas would work extremely in a Wild West setting. I will post them up for you as soon as they are ready.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,169
    edited October 2016
    Muke said:
    laserit said:
    Sounds like a gankfest
    That's pretty much what the Old West was if you were Indian. They were also being camped and griefed
    The Old West was not in India.
    This is a friend of mine her name is Maryann, this picture was taken in June of this year.

    Before we start thinking in Stereo types. This is a white guys house. See the legs just to the left of the vodka bottle? That's him, he was drunker than a skunk and suffering from terminal cancer, He's now dead, died in August. Dying at home alone with a bottle was his wish. May he rest in peace.

    Maryann was his next door neighbor. She had taken it upon herself to feed and care for the mans animals, he had lost the ability to do so. The mans dog had puppies and Maryann asked my wife and I if we could help find homes for them.

    Now the politically correct name for Maryann's ancestry in Canada is "First Nation" but she calls herself "Indian" and "Native"

    She is a very kind, wise and intelligent women and I have the up most respect for her and her large family. They live in a small town about 150 miles from Vancouver called Boston Bar which is about 15 minutes before my little piece of paradise where I spend most of my weekends.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Bar,_British_Columbia



    Please... Spare me your geography lessons.


    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    I find it interesting that the number of players interested almost halved when given the specific rules. I suspect the inclusion of what amounts to permadeath might have a lot to do with that.
    Its not permadeaath since you'll keep most of your XP but it is still incredible hard, losing banked gold and gear makes even games like UO to be lenient in comparison. I do think OP need to tune this down.

    Losing all your gear is acceptable if the gear is very easy to gain, and if you have a realistic carrying capacity so you actually have to select what you take from other players.

    Losing some XP and all the gold you carry is fair and probably what OP needs to settle for as the only penalty if he want to actually have more then a handful players.

    Losing land claims and bank account is just draconic no matter how you see things. The only way that could ever work is if you had a way to "save" everything now and then. 

    A western sandbox could be really fun, I certainly would enjoy if Rockstar made a Red Dead Online or if we got a similar game. OP is thinking a bit too niched though, making a MMO for people that think Mortal online and Darkfall have too wussy PvP will not earn the money it needs to run.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    @4507- Alright. Got it all whipped up. It was a pretty long post so I'm not going to proofread it tonight but it shouldn't be too horrible. A lot of the ideas in this are based upon a fantasy setting but I'm sure you can see how they could easily be translated over into a Wild West setting. In particular I think the last section on how you can strap yourself with a bazillion weapons but you start taking penalties as you throw more and more on could easily translate into the ability to load yourself with guns and ammo but with some penalties. Again, steal anything you want. There is a low chance my MMO will ever get made. The ideas are mostly there to be stolen:

    http://harbingerhideout.enjin.com/forum/m/39251331/viewthread/28681324-character-advancement-customizing-your-build/page/1


  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    laserit said:
    Muke said:
    laserit said:
    Sounds like a gankfest
    That's pretty much what the Old West was if you were Indian. They were also being camped and griefed
    The Old West was not in India.
    This is a friend of mine her name is Maryann, this picture was taken in June of this year.

    Before we start thinking in Stereo types. This is a white guys house. See the legs just to the left of the vodka bottle? That's him, he was drunker than a skunk and suffering from terminal cancer, He's now dead, died in August. Dying at home alone with a bottle was his wish. May he rest in peace.

    Maryann was his next door neighbor. She had taken it upon herself to feed and care for the mans animals, he had lost the ability to do so. The mans dog had puppies and Maryann asked my wife and I if we could help find homes for them.

    Now the politically correct name for Maryann's ancestry in Canada is "First Nation" but she calls herself "Indian" and "Native"

    She is a very kind, wise and intelligent women and I have the up most respect for her and her large family. They live in a small town about 150 miles from Vancouver called Boston Bar which is about 15 minutes before my little piece of paradise where I spend most of my weekends.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Bar,_British_Columbia



    Please... Spare me your geography lessons.


    Its because of what happened to the Native Americans that the Wild West theme is such a dodgy one, particularly if there is an attempt at 'historical accuracy' it would have to be so heavily sanitised that it wouldn't in fact be historically accurate, but in fact a complete fantasy, so why not throw in dwarves, elves and orcs, magic and space ships too.
    For all that some have a desire for a Wild West themed game, they don't want reality, they want the fantasy, the reality version is too uncomfortable with so many things that many consider to be unpalatable that any game that included it would be unmarketable.
    But if there was one, i'd like the Native Americans to win this time.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,482
    edited October 2016
    Phry said:
    <snip>


    Its because of what happened to the Native Americans that the Wild West theme is such a dodgy one, particularly if there is an attempt at 'historical accuracy' <snip>
    You would have to leave out the quote Native American unquote for a start!

    You would probably have the Iroquois - or more specifically the Iroquois Confederacy. Five (or six) nations (tribes) that made up the Iroquois Confederacy. Which had absorbed, merged - conquered! - various surrounding nations (tribes). You would also have the Algonquians and the .......

    The North American sub-content is a big place and it was populated by lots of different "peoples" / nations with differing cultures, beliefs, languages and so on. Sometimes they lived in peace with goods and ideas being traded / exchanged with their neighbours; sometimes they waged war. All the stuff that "independent" "unique" nations have done for centuries. The good and the bad and the very, very bad.

    To lump hundreds of years of history for an entire sub-continent into a bucket and slap a "native american indian" label on it would be like having a game set in Europe populated by "native Europeans" and pretending they were all the same and all lived happily side by side.

    Simplistic is one word for it, there are other less polite terms. 
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    gervaise1 said:
    Phry said:
    <snip>


    Its because of what happened to the Native Americans that the Wild West theme is such a dodgy one, particularly if there is an attempt at 'historical accuracy' <snip>
    You would have to leave out the quote Native American unquote for a start!

    You would probably have the Iroquois - or more specifically the Iroquois Confederacy. Five (or six) nations (tribes) that made up the Iroquois Confederacy. Which had absorbed, merged - conquered! - various surrounding nations (tribes). You would also have the Algonquians and the .......

    The North American sub-content is a big place and it was populated by lots of different "peoples" / nations with differing cultures, beliefs, languages and so on. Sometimes they lived in peace with goods and ideas being traded / exchanged with their neighbours; sometimes they waged war. All the stuff that "independent" "unique" nations have done for centuries. The good and the bad and the very, very bad.

    To lump hundreds of years of history for an entire sub-continent into a bucket and slap a "native american indian" label on it would be like having a game set in Europe populated by "native Europeans" and pretending they were all the same and all lived happily side by side.

    Simplistic is one word for it, there are other less polite terms. 
    There is also a word that you would have to heavily work around, because nobody particularly likes it, it has so many bad implications, and thats genocide, good old Chris Columbus sure did bring some interesting things to America, after all.
    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/296662.Lies_My_Teacher_Told_Me

    Nobody wants historical accuracy when it comes to the 'wild west' they want the heavily sanitised fantasy version, where cowboys and indians is nothing more than a game where its 2 sides that race around on horseback waving tomohawks and rifles, or contests between cowboys to see who is the fastest draw. Superficial fantasy at its best.



  • holdenfiveholdenfive Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Christ, why did this topic turn to "well the natives were butchered so this idea sucks"? You could apply this logic to war themed games that dont accurately depict atrocities, sports games that dont touch on the subject of concussions or PEDs, etc. etc. The "romanticized" version of the American West has long been a source of fascination with people around the world. I dont see that as a problem. RTS games focused on the dark ages or Western Europe imperialism dont face the same scrutiny even though the source material is ripe with instances of racial violence on a greater scale. So it's okay to fluff up European genocide in video games but we need to hold American history to a greater standard. People arent allowed to enjoy American mythology because bad shit happened. 

    Lets not try to hide our obvious bias here or anything.


  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,169
    gervaise1 said:
    Phry said:
    <snip>


    Its because of what happened to the Native Americans that the Wild West theme is such a dodgy one, particularly if there is an attempt at 'historical accuracy' <snip>
    You would have to leave out the quote Native American unquote for a start!

    You would probably have the Iroquois - or more specifically the Iroquois Confederacy. Five (or six) nations (tribes) that made up the Iroquois Confederacy. Which had absorbed, merged - conquered! - various surrounding nations (tribes). You would also have the Algonquians and the .......

    The North American sub-content is a big place and it was populated by lots of different "peoples" / nations with differing cultures, beliefs, languages and so on. Sometimes they lived in peace with goods and ideas being traded / exchanged with their neighbours; sometimes they waged war. All the stuff that "independent" "unique" nations have done for centuries. The good and the bad and the very, very bad.

    To lump hundreds of years of history for an entire sub-continent into a bucket and slap a "native american indian" label on it would be like having a game set in Europe populated by "native Europeans" and pretending they were all the same and all lived happily side by side.

    Simplistic is one word for it, there are other less polite terms. 
    The problem is that it's very fresh. In my country the government was guilty of trying to erase Native culture up to and including part of the 1960's. Children were taken from their homes and thrown into Residential schools which were run by the Catholic church. Many atrocities took place in those schools.

    The reason why the Old West is so politically dodgy is because it wasn't war, it was genocide.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    I really like the Spaghetti Western movies with Clint Eastwood.  I liked Red Dead Redemption a lot as it copied that style/setting.

    There is also a more realistic western style that isn't quite as rugged/tuff guy in nature which I didn't enjoy quite as much.  In fact there are also old westerns that have happy singing and guys dressed up like dandies.  There are a lot of different types of western style movies.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    This is a sandbox game. The best way to deal with the issue of how natives interact with settlers is to allow players to play both and make that decision themselves. No need for the developer to self-righteously impose a storyline that fits their political preferences onto the world.
  • 45074507 Member UncommonPosts: 351
    @Eldurian: indeed. The concept of penalties based on overgearing could create a really interesting dynamic in wild west PvP (should I carry 7 pre-loaded revolvers and have a ton of firepower with little mobility or carry 1 and be able to take cover almost anywhere?).
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