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Game dead before it even started?

Aragon100Aragon100 Member RarePosts: 2,686
edited September 2016 in Shroud of the Avatar
http://steamcommunity.com/app/326160/discussions/0/350541595108763190/


Statistics On Steam Ownership
One argument you'll often see amongst people who wish to boost Shroud is that you can't use Steam statistics of current log ins to judge how popular it is. I just want to draw your attention to the following webpage that gives us hard figures on how many Steam accounts there are;

http://steamspy.com/app/326160

Owners: 32,370 ± 4,663

There's always a large margin of error due to the constant churn of people buying and refunding, and you can't predict how many of the accounts will later be removed again; but taking the middle estimate, 32,370 out of a listed Total Backers: 62,365 at the official page, that indicates Steam has a total of 51.9% of all the registered accounts.

Out of 32,370 Steam registered owners, Steam currently lists only 380 playing a day, or 1/100th the ownership rate. And the trend continues downwards.

http://steamcharts.com/app/326160#7d

Bear that in mind when people tell you there's a huge increase post Final Wipe, as well as a huge hidden playerbase; It's entirely possible those who never linked to Steam, or bought in only via Kickstart / Official pages have a higher player retention, because those players might be more emotionally invested than passersby who see the game on Steam and give it a try on a whim.

But more than half the player base owns it via Steam, so their perspectives are entirely valid, positive and negative. 

Edited to add: Argyle kindly linked me to the Telethon Postmortem thread here;

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/release-33-post-mortem-q-a-those-that-got-missed.62019/

For comparison, just in case you were wondering if I were deliberatly downplaying engagement, Shroud has made a total of 5 new pledges over the last 7 days. Yes, 5. 

Spreadsheet here;

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iYGZbZu3hj8bqk4u4m4AjUfyhcBux4w0R5Lt2Rl0H2k/edit#gid=508788240

Not sure what the "Daily Britannians" refers too, can anyone clarify?






This thread over at Steam show accurate number's on how low the in game population actually are.

All old UO veterans have left the game since PvP in almost non-existent and the quality of it is just awful.

Developer's made a fatal mistake only listening to the carebears and now the game is almost dead.

All old UO veterans left the game since PvP in almost non-existent and the quality of it is just horrible.


Post edited by Aragon100 on
«1345

Comments

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
    edited September 2016
    I don't think it has to do with listening to pve players over pvp players at all. I would say it has suffered from a lack of clear game design, planning, and implementation from the beginning. Things seem to be done on a whim of an idea and too much experimenting with bad ideas for game mechanics for months on end, and much more time is spent on add ons and POTs than the gameplay, UI, story, animations, creatures, scenes, etc etc etc. It all feels just thrown together from whatever can be bought and used from unity assets.

    I've been a supporter of Sota for 3 years now, and spent lots to get a large rent free deed pledge, so I hate to say it...but there's a reason why the numbers are so low. It's just not a good game. Yes, I know it's not finished as people will say, but at over 3 years now and I can't think of one aspect of the game that's finished or good either for that matter. There's barely anything to do but grind for resources, craft, or kill the same types of creatures over and over for lackluster loot, you can deco a house if you can afford it or sit around and dance or play music with others. It's sad, but there's just no game here, it's bits and pieces of unfinished ideas and terrible gameplay ideas that don't flow well together. :( Nothing is finished, dozens of  cloned scenese and on hold to get POT's finished first, introducing the newest add-on items, and there's rarely anything fun added. I've chalked it up as a bad gamble for now, will log on briefly to refresh house, and will take a look back once it's released to see if it gets better, but I'm not getting my hopes up really.
    Post edited by Ice-Queen on

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • LerxstLerxst Member UncommonPosts: 648
    The average playtime for the game is 41 minutes. That says it all right there.
  • donger56donger56 Member RarePosts: 443
    Yeah I think we can safely file this game in the ever growing trash bin on failed crowd funded games created by has-been developers from the golden age of gaming. So many people throwing money at these things based on nostalgia for older games made by these people. We need to stop being sucked into these half baked games with no realistic chance of success. You simply can't make a quality game with so little money and Star Citizen is proving more every day that you can't do it with a lot of money either. I would love for someone to prove me wrong, but for the time being, crowd funding is a total fail for MMORPG's. RIP SOTA.
    Champie
  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,792
    I don't own the game so I have no inside information here. What I have seen in the YouTube vids I have been watching of the game (since the "final wipe") is that people don't understand the game. Seems that many people give up because they cannot figure out how to do things in game. Example, they can't figure out how to advance their skills or simple things like how to find quests. And I have to admit that the game does not hold a players hand in directing them to do anything. 

    On the other hand, there seems to be a good deal of content once you figure out how to get to it. I am still on the fence with purchasing the game but only because I am not currently buying any more alphas or early access games. 

    By the way, one of the reasons that this game does not appear to be doing well on Steam is because it looks like most people purchasing the game aren't doing it through Steam. One reason I have heard is that since the game does not allow more then one character per account, that Steam does not allow multiple accounts of the game. Therefore, many people are buying from other sources. At least that is what I have been told by non-Steam players.

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,531
    Gruug said:
    I don't own the game so I have no inside information here. What I have seen in the YouTube vids I have been watching of the game (since the "final wipe") is that people don't understand the game. Seems that many people give up because they cannot figure out how to do things in game. Example, they can't figure out how to advance their skills or simple things like how to find quests. And I have to admit that the game does not hold a players hand in directing them to do anything. 

    On the other hand, there seems to be a good deal of content once you figure out how to get to it. I am still on the fence with purchasing the game but only because I am not currently buying any more alphas or early access games. 

    By the way, one of the reasons that this game does not appear to be doing well on Steam is because it looks like most people purchasing the game aren't doing it through Steam. One reason I have heard is that since the game does not allow more then one character per account, that Steam does not allow multiple accounts of the game. Therefore, many people are buying from other sources. At least that is what I have been told by non-Steam players.

    I'm a low-cost backer.  Trust me when I say, don't waste your money on this one.  It's an empty husk of a game.  Lord British lost his magic touch years ago, sadly.
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Gruug said:

    By the way, one of the reasons that this game does not appear to be doing well on Steam is because it looks like most people purchasing the game aren't doing it through Steam.
    How does that account for 30,000 people buying it on steam and only a few hundred continuing to play it?
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,839
    Only an idiot would think about making and mmo without PvP now a days. 
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    Ice-Queen said:
    I don't think it has to do with listening to pve players over pvp players at all. I would say it has suffered from a lack of clear game design, planning, and implementation from the beginning. Things seem to be done on a whim of an idea and too much experimenting with bad ideas for game mechanics for months on end, and much more time is spent on add ons and POTs than the gameplay, UI, story, animations, creatures, scenes, etc etc etc. It all feels just thrown together from whatever can be bought and used from unity assets.

    I've been a supporter of Sota for 3 years now, and spent lots to get a large rent free deed pledge, so I hate to say it...but there's a reason why the numbers are so low. It's just not a good game. Yes, I know it's not finished as people will say, but at over 3 years now and I can't think of one aspect of the game that's finished or good either for that matter. There's barely anything to do but grind for resources, craft, or kill the same types of creatures over and over for lackluster loot, you can deco a house if you can afford it or sit around and dance or play music with others. It's sad, but there's just no game here, it's bits and pieces of unfinished ideas and terrible gameplay ideas that don't flow well together. :( Nothing is finished, dozens of  cloned scenese and on hold to get POT's finished first, introducing the newest add-on items, and there's rarely anything fun added. I've chalked it up as a bad gamble for now, will log on briefly to refresh house, and will take a look back once it's released to see if it gets better, but I'm not getting my hopes up really.

    You nailed it. As another supporter for 3+ years, I basically gave up on the game,  due to the same reasons in this post. @Ice-Queen, you are more patient than me. :-)
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    edited September 2016
    bcbully said:
    Only an idiot would think about making and mmo without PvP now a days. 
    Shroud has PVP. 

    The game is still needs a lot of work.  The quests to complete require  a lot of reading and decision making on the player's part.  Whole zones are under heavy construction.  Overland travel (while it looks like it can be interesting) is 'odd' to put it nicely.  I pushed myself to try and really get into the game, but there's just not a lot there from what I've seen.  And there aren't that many people playing either.  One night I saw a bunch of people at Soltown and that was about it.  Overland travel has 'random encounters' you can run into which is pretty cool.  It ports you into a fight with wolves (or skeleton mages with an altar in the other one I ran into.)  The problem with that is you can just run away.  Not much risk.  They do have choke points in overland travel that force you to run through a zone of higher mobs to get to the other side before you can continue your overland travel, however.  

    There were nice surprises like mimics and secret door I found in the Soltown catacombs, but I only found that one, after putting in a few weeks of playing.  So I was excited for the discovery true Elder Scrolls MMO feel that the game was giving off when I first started, but that went away pretty quick.  The mobs from what I ran into weren't that varied.  Various humans with different names, skeletons, wolves and spiders was what I basically saw.

    I'm sure there's some really cool stuff in the game that I hadn't run into and it SEEMS like they're trying to do something different, but there's just so much pad to the game right now of doing repetitive stuff.

    They say it's a sandbox pve game and maybe that's why it feels the way it does, but my money is on it's just really, really unfinished as far as content goes.
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    bcbully said:
    Only an idiot would think about making and mmo without PvP now a days. 
    Shroud has PVP. 
    Shroud has glorified dueling, nothing that resembles PvP acceptable to most gamers.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,002
    Just looked up the game.  It's pre-alpha so lots of time for them to improve it.  I'll wait and see what changes they make during development.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,122
    The game feels devoid of any charm.

    Majority of MMOs have a theme to them. They invite player to explore and be part of the world. Even your run-of-the-mill WoW clones do have some sort of an authentic theme going on.

    I did not get this from SOTA at all. The zones are very small. Even the hub towns you visit seem very shallow in content. The villages I saw were a simple street with some generic houses. Nothing memorable that would give it a SOTA vibe.

    I only played for a few hours and saw under 10 zones. Perhaps it gets better. But if these 10 starter zones are bland, you can't be surprised there is no retention.
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,531
    edited September 2016
    Just looked up the game.  It's pre-alpha so lots of time for them to improve it.  I'll wait and see what changes they make during development.

    Pre-alpha that charges to play and has had a final wipe.  Ah,  modern-day MMO development!


    You can't polish a turd.  This game could (and probably will) spend another five years in development and I still don't trust that they'd come up with anything worthwhile.  As my old pappy says, what starts off bad usually ends up bad.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,035
    Didn't his Renfield buddies buy enough of his blood to fund the game.

  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,792
    Talonsin said:
    Gruug said:

    By the way, one of the reasons that this game does not appear to be doing well on Steam is because it looks like most people purchasing the game aren't doing it through Steam.
    How does that account for 30,000 people buying it on steam and only a few hundred continuing to play it?

    I account it to being still in development. What I hear people saying is that the game in still in alpha or pre-alpha. Not many games that are still unfinished get more then a passing play except when some new or major patch comes to them. That is one reason I have sworn off early access games for now. 

    This one looks interesting but I still wish to see more. I don't see it as being "dead" but still under development.

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • borghive49borghive49 Member RarePosts: 493
    The problem for this game is that the core game play is just dated and bad. The UI, combat, the heavy instancing, pretty much the entire core game that makes up an MMO is just ugly. 
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,002
    Just looked up the game.  It's pre-alpha so lots of time for them to improve it.  I'll wait and see what changes they make during development.

    Pre-alpha that charges to play and has had a final wipe.  Ah,  modern-day MMO development!


    You can't polish a turd.  This game could (and probably will) spend another five years in development and I still don't trust that they'd come up with anything worthwhile.  As my old pappy says, what starts off bad usually ends up bad.
    Yeah, they can charge whatever they want but I'm not buying it until I see what it looks like later down the road, then decide.  It's just to early for me to tell at this point.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 664
    I remember when this was first about to go into kickstarter or whatever you want to call it. I liked the sound of it until you had to buy plots of limited land, then I thought forget that. Don't tell me its limited and then sell land before the game is even in early access or anything.
  • time007time007 Member UncommonPosts: 1,062
    well lets see how this pans out in 6 months.

    IMPORTANT:  Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING.  Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally.  If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead.  I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING.  Thank you.
  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    The game seems like it was designed for nostalgia purposes.  Everything from inventory, character customization, zoning, stats, traveling, etc.  It might just be me, but i prefer advancement and progress in game design.  Leave nostalgia where it is.
  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,792
    Acterius said:
    Really is sad how Smed and Garriott has lost that magic feeling from the games we fell in love with years back! 

    Smed doesn't have anything to do with this game does he? Or are you referring to Crowfall which Smed IS one of the devs?

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • natpicknatpick Member UncommonPosts: 271
    i got very early access to this game and it quickly became apparent how it was going to end up,it felt old and clunky from the early days and never really improved,the guys making this game had good intentions imo but this alone is not enough,the ui and characters were very outdated and unintuitive lots of game mechanics were awkward.im sure there is a niche audience for it but thats it.
  • jonp200jonp200 Member UncommonPosts: 457
    This game is poop.  I backed it and have logged in a few times to see if the poop grew into something more than poop...It unfortunately remains poop...It never felt "smooth" in any way..There is a real lack of vision here.  I was a huge fan of Lord British back in the day; no longer.

    Seaspite
    Playing ESO on my X-Box


  • CetraCetra Member UncommonPosts: 359
    edited September 2016
    terrible game. I login few times during the various patch release and always left disappointed. Graphics are mediocre even though the screenshots shown on the internet look amazing. Combat is awkward and dull. The interactive dialogue thing is just a gimmick, troublesome and hinder the flow of the game.

    And instead of spending more effort on the core game(story/combat/mechanics) , they wasted dev time on inconsequential stuff like free to play piano and all the useless crap.

    Overall the game feels like something from 15-20yrs ago. Doom to fail.
  • zoddydozzoddydoz Member UncommonPosts: 3
    Lerxst said:
    The average playtime for the game is 41 minutes. That says it all right there.
    Yes, that there is a steep learning curve. The systems for skill decks is seldom understood before players quit - they need to do a better job at explaining it if they want mainstream-level players that won't wiki controls and mechanics for hours on end.
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