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SQ42 to be released later this year.

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  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    MaxBacon said:
    Can you link me to this poll?  I'd love to see how many of the 1.5M Star Citizens voted...
    This was back from 2013, who knows how many backers the game had then but the poll was there.

    I wonder how different those results would have been if people in that poll had been told that those "extra features" would result in several years of delays and millions of dollars wasted due to poor management? 
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,178
    MaxBacon said:
    20k out of 1.5M.  OOOOOKAY.
     
    Okay this needs to be clarified. There's no 1.5M backers, SC has over 500K far last info from Turbulent on it, 1.5M accounts. And second, you're looking at those numbers, 3 years ago (considering the poll's date).

    At your last point, end of the day they can't do anything about that but move forward, we could just keep throwing rocks at them about it every single day (as some do) but no good will ever come from that. 
    Who voted?  Just backers or Star Citizens?   Your answer is what number we should use.



    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited October 2016
    Who voted?  Just backers or Star Citizens?   Your answer is what number we should use.
    The total number of Citizens is the only we have, was around 150K then.


    Talonsin said:
    I wonder how different those results would have been if people in that poll had been told that those "extra features" would result in several years of delays and millions of dollars wasted due to poor management?  
    What do you think?

    If there was one up-front about that all this new goals and features would cost several years of delay to the game's set delivery date then, do you think the poll outcome would have been against having the goals?

    We'll never know but I kinda feel it would still pass but not without controversy behind it.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    MaxBacon said:
    Who voted?  Just backers or Star Citizens?   Your answer is what number we should use.
    The total number of Citizens is the only we have, was around 150K then.


    Talonsin said:
    I wonder how different those results would have been if people in that poll had been told that those "extra features" would result in several years of delays and millions of dollars wasted due to poor management?  
    What do you think?

    If there was one up-front about that all this new goals and features would cost several years of delay to the game's set delivery date then, do you think the poll outcome would have been against having the goals?

    We'll never know but I kinda feel it would still pass but not without controversy behind it.
    Thats the entire problem with this project.  They always withhold information and that benefits their wallets.  That is too much of a coincidence.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    MaxBacon said:
    Talonsin said:
    SQ42 having 50 missions was a 4.5 million stretch goal they hit back in November of 2012.  Are you saying it will now include 150 missions?  
    Original SQ42, 20 missions wasn't it?

    3x20 = 60

    Talonsin said:
    The majority of backers dont even read the official forum or watch the PR videos being made from CIG.  How can you justify saying that the majority of backers support anything when most dont voice an opinion on anything about the game?
    Oh well blame that! Everybody has a voice yet only a minority uses it.
    Just look at democracy, it's usually a minority that takes the decision in the name of the majority, does that make it invalid? It's a rather grey area to even attempt to make points on isn't it?


    The original kickstarter did not list how many missions would be in SQ42 but the RSI page did list it as 30 missions available. 
    Source: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goalshttp://

    Just a month after the original kickstarter closed, the stretch goals for adding 20 more missions and a behind enemy lines mission pack were accomplished.  Then in 2013 during an interview Chris Roberts said this:

    "... we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state,"  Source: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/358547,chris-roberts-addresses-feature-creep-as-star-citizen-makes-20-million.aspx 

    So just weeks after this whole thing started back in 2012, Chris said 50 missions plus an add on disk and you are now saying that he added 3x more missions which is holding up the release of SQ42?


    Referencing your second comment, you specifically said that "the majority of backers" supported things such as the technical revolution and eventual years long delay of the game.  Your comeback is democracy?  The point I am trying to show is that BOTH haters and supporters alike are falsely representing the actual facts and I am glad you helped prove me right.

    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited October 2016
    Talonsin said:

    So just weeks after this whole thing started back in 2012, Chris said 50 missions plus an add on disk and you are now saying that he added 3x more missions which is holding up the release of SQ42?


    Referencing your second comment, you specifically said that "the majority of backers" supported things such as the technical revolution and eventual years long delay of the game.  Your comeback is democracy?  The point I am trying to show is that BOTH haters and supporters alike are falsely representing the actual facts and I am glad you helped prove me right.

    So that is what I was talking about, the original number of missions, that I said 20, so it was 30. So it turns into 2x more missions into proper info; independent of when that was announced, it was during the Crowdfund and my post was about the game it was before and after that crowdfund that changed the game set to be delivered. That is what was twisted by you.


    Because what is said is that just because not everybody voted, means that the outcome of the poll is invalid and means nothing, that is the argument used against the poll to attempt to discredit it that the majority of who voted, voted in favour. It goes to suppose and imply if everybody voted, they would have not doing so in favour of more goals.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,178
    MaxBacon said:
    Talonsin said:

    So just weeks after this whole thing started back in 2012, Chris said 50 missions plus an add on disk and you are now saying that he added 3x more missions which is holding up the release of SQ42?


    Referencing your second comment, you specifically said that "the majority of backers" supported things such as the technical revolution and eventual years long delay of the game.  Your comeback is democracy?  The point I am trying to show is that BOTH haters and supporters alike are falsely representing the actual facts and I am glad you helped prove me right.

    So that is what I was talking about, the original number of missions, that I said 20, so it was 30. So it turns into 2x more missions into proper info; independent of when that was announced, it was during the Crowdfund and my post was about the game it was before and after that crowdfund and the scope is changed. That is what was twisted by you.


    Because what is said is that just because not everybody voted, means that the outcome of the poll is invalid and means nothing, that is the argument used against the poll to attempt to discredit it that the majority of who voted, voted in favour. It goes to suppose and imply if everybody voted, they would have not doing so in favour of more goals.
    No.  YOU are the one that introduced the poll to the discussion as a way of supporting this statement:


    End of the day what caused that "technical revolution" was very much supported by the majority of the backers, it wouldn't have happened if they were against it, and so it began!


    To which I asked about the source of that and you linked the poll, which it turns out is not even backers but just anyone.  Can you now at least admit that you have no idea if this "technical revolution" which caused the delay was in fact supported by the "majority of the backers"?   Cause I sure as hell have no idea how many actual backers supported a delay, especially when CR specifically is quoted above as saying "... we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state" 

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited October 2016
    No.  YOU are the one that introduced the poll to the discussion as a way of supporting this statement:
    I mentioned, you asked, It was posted. Then attempts are made to discredit it.

    The support towards more goals and more features, wasn't a support that implied Delays, and as I said that was an awful failure to expect that just by getting more money and more outsourcing companies working on the game it would pay off the technical debt the game was about to face and still deliver in time. Far the info shared recently on this, kinda shows that he wasn't expecting to delay the game, he was just expecting to put more money into getting more people working for the game to counter it. Now we and he also knows (and admitted to it) that was a bad decision.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,229
    Obviously people hated that decision to go LARGE (=increased scope, stretch goals, more missions) so much that the amount of fans and backers increased by about +800 % since that decision was made. The amount of funding increased by about + 2000 % since then.

    THAT is how the "silent majority" reacted to that decision.


    Have fun
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Erillion said:
    Obviously people hated that decision to go LARGE (=increased scope, stretch goals, more missions) so much that the amount of fans and backers increased by about +800 % since that decision was made. The amount of funding increased by about + 2000 % since then.

    THAT is how the "silent majority" reacted to that decision.


    Have fun
    Jpegs are like scratch and sniff porn or crack.  People just can't get enough of them.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,229
    filmoret said:
    Erillion said:
    Obviously people hated that decision to go LARGE (=increased scope, stretch goals, more missions) so much that the amount of fans and backers increased by about +800 % since that decision was made. The amount of funding increased by about + 2000 % since then.

    THAT is how the "silent majority" reacted to that decision.


    Have fun
    Jpegs are like scratch and sniff porn or crack.  People just can't get enough of them.
    Funny that most things you name "jpegs" are already ships someone can fly in the Alpha, despite your incorrect propaganda. See ship completion summary here:

    http://archive.li/Iw09a/0d75389a805fa260d5058f6f2098a95ca7ddb1e0.jpg


    Have fun

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,838

    So, their management of the project was so bad that they couldn't even manage a restricted gameplay version of Star Marine or SQ42?


    Roberts is his own worst enemy.   Instead of getting 3x, 4x, or 5x times your money's worth, you'll end up seeing something like half the value wasted on poor decisions and redoing months of work because of the whims of the vainglorious leader.  


    And, of course, you have to keep feeding the beast, or you might end up with nothing.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    MaxBacon said:
    Can you link me to this poll?  I'd love to see how many of the 1.5M Star Citizens voted...
    This was back from 2013, who knows how many backers the game had then but the poll was there.

    The goals kept going, kept being met. Of course, back then people were happy about this, give me more stretch goals and the party continues! So they did it, the community supported ii by making the campaign a big success it was and here we are today.

    Only after the delays started to hit one after the other is when some people started looking back at the whole scope creep of the project. A massive failure on CR's side was not making clear that much would take that much more time to create. --'

    And Erin Roberts on that kotaku article said something that hit on this, when he says that Roberts hired a TON of outsourcing companies to pump up development at full speed and it became pretty obvious after some time that was not going to happen.
    And  they voted and the backers backed ... well under the illusion that the terms in the Letter from the Chairman apply like:
    Finally there is one very important element – the more funds we can raise in the pre-launch phase, the more we can invest in additional content (more ships, characters etc.) and perhaps more importantly we can apply greater number of resources to the various tasks to ensure we deliver the full functionality sooner rather than later.


    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited October 2016
    And  they voted and the backers backed ... well under the illusion that the terms in the Letter from the Chairman apply like:
    Finally there is one very important element – the more funds we can raise in the pre-launch phase, the more we can invest in additional content (more ships, characters etc.) and perhaps more importantly we can apply greater number of resources to the various tasks to ensure we deliver the full functionality sooner rather than later.
    What is nothing but what CR did want to do, as shared insight on the kotaku articles when revealed by hiring a ton of outsourcing companies back then (2/3 of SC's development was outsourced!), and that did not work out. Simple as that.

    If it had work out, then SC's development would have gotten further ahead as the actual CIG company was still being built from the ground-up.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    Erillion said:
    Obviously people hated that decision to go LARGE (=increased scope, stretch goals, more missions) so much that the amount of fans and backers increased by about +800 % since that decision was made. The amount of funding increased by about + 2000 % since then.

    THAT is how the "silent majority" reacted to that decision.


    Have fun
    Jpegs are like scratch and sniff porn or crack.  People just can't get enough of them.
    Funny that most things you name "jpegs" are already ships someone can fly in the Alpha, despite your incorrect propaganda. See ship completion summary here:

    http://archive.li/Iw09a/0d75389a805fa260d5058f6f2098a95ca7ddb1e0.jpg


    Have fun

    Not even half of those are flight ready, most of the flight ready ones are being updated again. 15 are still in production and 7 are still concepts. I think filmoret was correct with the JPEG statement
  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    MaxBacon said:

    What is nothing but what CR did want to do, as shared insight on the kotaku articles when revealed by hiring a ton of outsourcing companies back then (2/3 of SC's development was outsourced!), and that did not work out. Simple as that.
    Thank you for finally agreeing that CR and family screwed this up royally.

    So now you see why folks are upset and disillusioned.

     

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,058
    MaxBacon said:
    Shaigh said:
    • Late 2014 was optimistic in november 2013 
    • Early 2015 was optimistic in april 2014
    • Fall 2015 was optimistic at beginning of 2015
    • 2016 was optimistic in late 2015
    Every year its another expected time for release that's 8-12 months away and it just keeps on going.

    When you have to consider the scope of the game changing, the whole thing is pushed further back; SQ42 alone has grown by what? 3x more missions than it originally was meant to have? Not to talk about the expansion of gameplay elements the game faced, the motion capture goals (that only took place at 2015) and all that.

    People say "oh it's 5 years and SQ42 it's not here", yet those people forgot to mention SQ42's development started in January 2014, after they opened the UK office.
    The bullshit about dates has nothing to do with increasing the scope, its about repeating the same god damn lie every time. If you give a date 2 months before you actually opened the office that's supposed to create the game your late 2014 date is just a lie. The other three dates were given after they had the office running, and they were just adding time on the original lie.

    At this point they can't even show clips from a mission let alone creating 60 missions like they promise the game  would have.
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,497
    edited October 2016

    And, of course, you have to keep feeding the beast, or you might end up with nothing.


    In a recent article he was basically begging for the community to continue "supporting" him aka financing him. This is from a guy that said $65 million was enough...

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,838

    And, of course, you have to keep feeding the beast, or you might end up with nothing.


    In a recent article he was basically begging for the community to continue "supporting" him aka financing him. This is from a guy that said $65 million was enough...


    Not surprised.  There is no end to Roberts' bloated ego:  He deserves that money!   Stand up and be counted!

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

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