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  • feroshusferoshus Member UncommonPosts: 164
    Nyctelios said:
    No misinterpretation here, just good and old skepticism I use on anything.

    The misinterpretation is your field of action. I don't want to steal your job.

    Haha. There's no misunderstanding on my part, you don't get to throw this back on me.

    Here's what I wrote
    $122 million * 4.5 equals equivalent budget of $550 million
    The important bit being equivalent budget. If I misunderstood then I wouldn't have used those words to clarify in the first place.

    If you want to claim I misunderstood then you're going to have to do better than just saying the words.
    Umm no you are definitely misunderstanding math in general here. You are also misusing the word equivalent, so that does nothing for your case either. Having 4.5x the resources available when compared to a different funding model doesn't mean you multiply the overall resources by 4.5 lol That's just silly.
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,497
    The slide that Roberts put up says clear as day that each crowdfunding dollar they receive is equivalent to 4 or more publisher dollars, agreed?

    So, if $1 is equivalent to $4.5 then $122 million is equivalent to $550 million, they're his words not mine.

    This is the bit that you guys cannot seem to get - he is the one making that claim, not me. I'm just taking his example and using it with current figures.

  • XodicXodic Member EpicPosts: 1,138
    I'll say this; I have more fun in SC pre-alpha than any launched game in the last 5 years. Is it perfect? No, it's just better. The things they have accomplished surpasses that of the typical cash shop game.
  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,058
    The slide that Roberts put up says clear as day that each crowdfunding dollar they receive is equivalent to 4 or more publisher dollars, agreed?

    So, if $1 is equivalent to $4.5 then $122 million is equivalent to $550 million, they're his words not mine.

    This is the bit that you guys cannot seem to get - he is the one making that claim, not me. I'm just taking his example and using it with current figures.

    Whoever made that slide you posted doesn't understand the difference between game revenue and developer budget for a game. 
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,420
    Shaigh said:
    The slide that Roberts put up says clear as day that each crowdfunding dollar they receive is equivalent to 4 or more publisher dollars, agreed?

    So, if $1 is equivalent to $4.5 then $122 million is equivalent to $550 million, they're his words not mine.

    This is the bit that you guys cannot seem to get - he is the one making that claim, not me. I'm just taking his example and using it with current figures.

    Whoever made that slide you posted doesn't understand the difference between game revenue and developer budget for a game. 
    Chris Roberts
     
  • feroshusferoshus Member UncommonPosts: 164
    The slide that Roberts put up says clear as day that each crowdfunding dollar they receive is equivalent to 4 or more publisher dollars, agreed?

    So, if $1 is equivalent to $4.5 then $122 million is equivalent to $550 million, they're his words not mine.

    This is the bit that you guys cannot seem to get - he is the one making that claim, not me. I'm just taking his example and using it with current figures.

    Not agreed, nowhere in that slide does it say $1 = $4.5 dollars. It says they will have 4x as much money available for development costs. You are both reading and understanding the information being presented there incorrectly. I assure you, there is only one person "not getting it" here and that is you.
  • feroshusferoshus Member UncommonPosts: 164
    The slide that Roberts put up says clear as day that each crowdfunding dollar they receive is equivalent to 4 or more publisher dollars, agreed?

    So, if $1 is equivalent to $4.5 then $122 million is equivalent to $550 million, they're his words not mine.

    This is the bit that you guys cannot seem to get - he is the one making that claim, not me. I'm just taking his example and using it with current figures.

    To make it more clear for you, since I'm pretty sure you're still going to have trouble understanding...

    Both developers have 60 dollars. Of that 60, one developer will only have 12 to spend on development, while RSI (supposedly) will have 48. That's where the multiplier of 4 comes from. It doesn't mean that you get to multiply the original 60 by 4. It's really quite simple grade school stuff here.
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,497
    edited September 2016
    feroshus said:
    To make it more clear for you, since I'm pretty sure you're still going to have trouble understanding...

    Both developers have 60 dollars. Of that 60, one developer will only have 12 to spend on development, while RSI (supposedly) will have 48. That's where the multiplier of 4 comes from. It doesn't mean that you get to multiply the original 60 by 4. It's really quite simple grade school stuff here.

    To make it even simpler for you because you're clearly having trouble understanding how the reverse is also true....

    Chris Roberts is saying for a publisher to produce a game with a similar development budget they would need a gross budget of 4x the crowdfunding amount which is why the word equivalent is being used. ie a game of equivalent quality requires 4x the amount of funding if it uses the publisher method, capiche?

    It really should be quite a basic thing to get your head around.

    Post edited by rpmcmurphy on
  • IAmMMOIAmMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,462
    The main issue will be the load of people using old hardware.  There hasn't been a game since Witcher 3 that's pushed PC technology after 2012.  All those holding on to sandybridge systems and crap AMD systems will make a huge fuss before giving in and upgrading.  
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    IAmMMO said:
    The main issue will be the load of people using old hardware.  There hasn't been a game since Witcher 3 that's pushed PC technology after 2012.  All those holding on to sandybridge systems and crap AMD systems will make a huge fuss before giving in and upgrading.  
    You're assuming that SC will push PC technology? By the time it "releases" other games will have beaten them to the finish line. I wouldn't be holding your breath for any jumps in innovation from the SC team, they still haven't figured out how to deliver a patch without making you re-download the entire game.
  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,398
    edited September 2016
    Kefo said:
    You're assuming that SC will push PC technology? By the time it "releases" other games will have beaten them to the finish line. I wouldn't be holding your breath for any jumps in innovation from the SC team, they still haven't figured out how to deliver a patch without making you re-download the entire game.

    Neither does Crytek and a bunch of other engine developers who think packaging all the files into compressed bigger ones without a system to patch inside the compressed large fiile is an awesome concept (see anything made with the Unity engine).
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    edited September 2016
    azarhal said:
    Kefo said:
    You're assuming that SC will push PC technology? By the time it "releases" other games will have beaten them to the finish line. I wouldn't be holding your breath for any jumps in innovation from the SC team, they still haven't figured out how to deliver a patch without making you re-download the entire game.

    Neither does Crytek and a bunch of other engine developers who think packaging all the files into compressed bigger ones without a system to patch inside the compressed large fiile is an awesome concept (see anything made with the Unity engine).
    Please educate yourself about Patcher development ...
    The Patcher has nothing to do with the game engine.

    Edit: Though you can include your patching system in the game engine if you want to make something funny like a background patching client - but still that's nothing the Game Engine would be concerned.

    And as for Unity, you can buy nice xDelta based scripts for 30$

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited September 2016
    Please educate yourself about Patcher development ...
    The Patcher has nothing to do with the game engine.
    Please educate us then, why are the CIG developers doing Engine changes to make it happen then... 
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    edited September 2016
    MaxBacon said:
    Please educate yourself about Patcher development ...
    The Patcher has nothing to do with the game engine.
    Please educate us then, why are the CIG developers doing Engine changes to make it happen then...
    A patcher needs to patch the delta of a file, not the file itself, this is something that's been done every day in every major backup solution. The patcher just doesn't care if it is a 2GB jpg, database or pak file - it just patches the delta.

    Do you want to learn more?
    https://github.com/jmacd/xdelta

    Edit: a quick search in the Unity asset store brought up stuff like these:
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/41417
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/19457

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited September 2016
    A patcher needs to patch the delta of a file, not the file itself, this is something that's been done every day in every major backup solution. The patcher just doesn't care if it is a 2GB jpg, database or pak file - it just patches the delta.

    Do you want to learn more?
    https://github.com/jmacd/xdelta
    Far development reports go and their words on this, they would need to make changes on the engine to make the necessary changes on the launcher happen. And that was claimed towards delta patching.

    But you say they don't need to change stuff on the engine...

    You need to get hired by CIG and teach them how to develop a game then, as far you say you know more about this than them.
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,065
    Nyctelios said:
    3.0 will be a breakthrough for sure and there is something bothering me: There will be a huge increase in many things, demanding more power, yet they seems confident about 3.0 - which makes me wonder if they have a performance patch card on their sleeve ready to pull out in case of bad press.
    I'd assume optimisation is steadily worked on. In one of the dev interviews, they said the client can run something like 20-40 NPC characters close to you (don't recall the exact number). This is bound to steadily increase.

    I think they can pull off 3.0 with what they currently have. They will simply adjust the number of NPCs around, given the performance level they can achieve.

    In the long term, they will absolutely need a big level-of-detail patch. Something that dramatically adjusts the detail of far away objects. I'd assume this is not in yet. This could potentially take them months to develop.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited September 2016
    laxie said:
    I think they can pull off 3.0 with what they currently have. They will simply adjust the number of NPCs around, given the performance level they can achieve.
    The SC's performance is actually pretty good.

    This is the client-side own, that falls on your hardware. When loading in Crusader with some cheats to make it load "offline", the performance is just 3,4x more FPS than connection to the normal servers.

    So if they deal with the awful current netcode on 3.0, the client performance is not really going to be a problem.
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    MaxBacon said:
    A patcher needs to patch the delta of a file, not the file itself, this is something that's been done every day in every major backup solution. The patcher just doesn't care if it is a 2GB jpg, database or pak file - it just patches the delta.

    Do you want to learn more?
    https://github.com/jmacd/xdelta
    Far development reports go and their words on this, they would need to make changes on the engine to make the necessary changes on the launcher happen. And that was claimed towards delta patching.

    But you say they don't need to change stuff on the engine...

    You need to get hired by CIG and teach them how to develop a game then, as far you say you know more about this than them.
    Sorry I worked many years for SOE and a live as Musician / Independent Dev suits me better.

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,398
    azarhal said:
    Kefo said:
    You're assuming that SC will push PC technology? By the time it "releases" other games will have beaten them to the finish line. I wouldn't be holding your breath for any jumps in innovation from the SC team, they still haven't figured out how to deliver a patch without making you re-download the entire game.

    Neither does Crytek and a bunch of other engine developers who think packaging all the files into compressed bigger ones without a system to patch inside the compressed large fiile is an awesome concept (see anything made with the Unity engine).
    Please educate yourself about Patcher development ...
    The Patcher has nothing to do with the game engine.

    Edit: Though you can include your patching system in the game engine if you want to make something funny like a background patching client - but still that's nothing the Game Engine would be concerned.

    And as for Unity, you can buy nice xDelta based scripts for 30$
    ???? I'm very well aware what is a delta patcher. Just like, I'm very aware of the fact that 99% of the games I download patches for makes me redownload entire files (say hello to pak files) instead of using a delta patcher including most Unity and CryEngine games I own. I doubt making a delta patcher is has simple as you are claiming it to be.
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    edited September 2016
    azarhal said:
    azarhal said:
    Kefo said:
    You're assuming that SC will push PC technology? By the time it "releases" other games will have beaten them to the finish line. I wouldn't be holding your breath for any jumps in innovation from the SC team, they still haven't figured out how to deliver a patch without making you re-download the entire game.

    Neither does Crytek and a bunch of other engine developers who think packaging all the files into compressed bigger ones without a system to patch inside the compressed large fiile is an awesome concept (see anything made with the Unity engine).
    Please educate yourself about Patcher development ...
    The Patcher has nothing to do with the game engine.

    Edit: Though you can include your patching system in the game engine if you want to make something funny like a background patching client - but still that's nothing the Game Engine would be concerned.

    And as for Unity, you can buy nice xDelta based scripts for 30$
    ???? I'm very well aware what is a delta patcher. Just like, I'm very aware of the fact that 99% of the games I download patches for makes me redownload entire files (say hello to pak files) instead of using a delta patcher including most Unity and CryEngine games I own. I doubt making a delta patcher is has simple as you are claiming it to be.
    That's cool - I doubt that to bake a cheesecake is simple, but that is because I can't bake.

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • KahrekKahrek Member UncommonPosts: 68
    Acterius said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Nyctelios said:
    "Publisher"? "550 m"? What are you talking about?

    Another person in denial about NMS, huh? 

    You haven't seen this I assume?

    $122 million * 4.5 equals equivalent budget of $550 million



    NMS is down to 38% positive on Steam, concurrency has dropped from 200,000+ to 4000 in 2 weeks, there might be denial going on but it most certainly isn't from me.

    Yeah and I have a comic here that is proof spider man is real.
    Dude I have to live with him and he is one big trouble maker. 
    OMG you are aunt May?
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    feroshus said:
    To make it more clear for you, since I'm pretty sure you're still going to have trouble understanding...

    Both developers have 60 dollars. Of that 60, one developer will only have 12 to spend on development, while RSI (supposedly) will have 48. That's where the multiplier of 4 comes from. It doesn't mean that you get to multiply the original 60 by 4. It's really quite simple grade school stuff here.
    So both developers get 115 million, by your example the one with a publisher only gets 28.8 million to build a game while CIG gets the whole 115 million.  Then by those standard, to compare apples to apples, a normal publisher getting 460 million would be the same as CIG getting 115 million

    6 on one side and a half dozen on the other.  It doesn't matter how you look at it, without a publisher CIG gets the entire 115 million to build the game while any normal developer with a publisher would need to bring in 460 million to have the same amount for development as CIG has.

    I think you are right, seems like simple grade school stuff to me


    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,140
    Doug_B said:
    I've been waiting my entire life for this kind of gaming experience. I think alot of people who are in doubt or still think it is a scam will be epically surprised at how engaging this game will be. The scale of what they have is huge now and itis still in alpha. I will not use the word potential because it is beyond that point.

    I still like Black Desert Online, but S.C. is just better.

    Can't wait for 3.0 :chuffed:
    I don't think people are going to bail off the hate train, its going to completely stop moving and they are going to quietly step off and disappear in the crowd of people that will be playing this game.  The knuckle heads don't realize Chris Roberts team has spent the last 3+ years building the foundation for their game along side the content creators.  Now finally that the foundation is in place all the work is rapidly coming together. The content finally has a place to go.  Most gamer's don't understand game development at all, and the vocal haters are just like a bunch of kids that want their ice cream, immediately, and don't understand whats taking so long.

    Moving forward your going to see rapid content updates.  I would say the game is about a year and half away from completion and its going to be simply amazing.
  • OriphusOriphus Member UncommonPosts: 467
    I kind of got the impression a lot of the hate is being led from devs from failed projects or people in the profession stuck in a crappy company who wouldn't understand or recognise innovation and creativity if it blah blah blah, you get the picture, people who's dreams have been crushed who begrudge and try to actively prevent others from achieving. Horrible cretins! It isn't difficult to get a bunch of teenagers to join you in hating something now is it :)
    :)
    "Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root 
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    azarhal said:
    azarhal said:
    Kefo said:
    You're assuming that SC will push PC technology? By the time it "releases" other games will have beaten them to the finish line. I wouldn't be holding your breath for any jumps in innovation from the SC team, they still haven't figured out how to deliver a patch without making you re-download the entire game.

    Neither does Crytek and a bunch of other engine developers who think packaging all the files into compressed bigger ones without a system to patch inside the compressed large fiile is an awesome concept (see anything made with the Unity engine).
    Please educate yourself about Patcher development ...
    The Patcher has nothing to do with the game engine.

    Edit: Though you can include your patching system in the game engine if you want to make something funny like a background patching client - but still that's nothing the Game Engine would be concerned.

    And as for Unity, you can buy nice xDelta based scripts for 30$
    ???? I'm very well aware what is a delta patcher. Just like, I'm very aware of the fact that 99% of the games I download patches for makes me redownload entire files (say hello to pak files) instead of using a delta patcher including most Unity and CryEngine games I own. I doubt making a delta patcher is has simple as you are claiming it to be.
    That's cool - I doubt that to bake a cheesecake is simple, but that is because I can't bake.
    Dude you are arguing with people who believe everything CIG says.  CIG is famous for making very simple things seem complex and expensive.  It is how they brainwash their victims.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
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