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Should scamming be legal in EVE?

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Comments

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    filmoret said:
    Easy thing to say but once a faction gives money to a carrier for the purpose of getting some military supplies or making any kind of supply run. 
    If someone steals money for a supply run or to buy a carrier ... thats spare change. He gets blacklisted and is shot on sight in the future. BTW that is what middlemen like Chribba are for .. money changes hand after a job well done and the middleman ensures that both sides stay honest.

    What I find more interesting are the size of scams where someone gets the power to handle all the high end blueprints for a huge alliance ALONE, without needing the approval of a second person. And THEN he steals all those blueprints plus a shitload of corporate hangars, POS hangars, corporate wallets, Titan and mothership class ships etc. Like the Goon leader did when he fucked his own alliance.




    Have fun


  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327

    When "scamming" is as widely used and centric in game play to a game such as it is in Eve, it then ceases to be a "scam," and becomes an integral feature of the game.   To describe what happens in Eve game play as "scamming" is to scapegoat the meaning of the word thereby assigning some type of "victimhood" to the player falling prey to such practices when the more accurate descriptors of those players for falling pray to these practices in a game widely known for said practice are ignorance, naivette, and more often than not, just downright stupidity.

    The act of "scamming" someone implies that one falling for such "scams" is totally unaware that they are being "scammed."  Anyone playing Eve who is totally unaware that a large part of Eve game play has historically to do with piracy acts that revolve around supposed "scamming" activity and of which the game has been widely known to involve these types of strategic underhanded maneuvers, deserves to be "scammed."  For only after being "scammed" will they learn how to successfully navigate the game and truly learn and understand how the game should be played.


  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    Easy thing to say but once a faction gives money to a carrier for the purpose of getting some military supplies or making any kind of supply run. 
    If someone steals money for a supply run or to buy a carrier ... thats spare change. He gets blacklisted and is shot on sight in the future. BTW that is what middlemen like Chribba are for .. money changes hand after a job well done and the middleman ensures that both sides stay honest.

    What I find more interesting are the size of scams where someone gets the power to handle all the high end blueprints for a huge alliance ALONE, without needing the approval of a second person. And THEN he steals all those blueprints plus a shitload of corporate hangars, POS hangars, corporate wallets, Titan and mothership class ships etc. Like the Goon leader did when he fucked his own alliance.




    Have fun


    And all he has to do is create a new account and transfer it all over and noone knows who he is any more.  You acted like this was an easy thing to stop or avoid.  And yes you can sell ISK for real money and it is even connected through CCP.  So its legal ingame to do it.  I thought everyone knows this kind of stuff.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    If the "scamming" occurs within the context of the game and does not consist of exploiting some bug then why in the world would we want a rule against it?

    If the "scamming" includes out of game components or exploiting bugs then that's a different story.

    The problem is the game doesn't provide a way to counter it.  Example Erillion just gave about the goons leader just taking everything and walking away with it.  Now there is nothing anyone can do about it and yes its a ton of money involved.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • AriesTigerAriesTiger Member UncommonPosts: 444
    edited September 2016
    In my mind, all forms of video games is "you vs. the world." (Minus friends/family etc.) So, in my mind, if you can get scammed, it should be allowed. Now spammed...no. But a scam...sure why not. I wouldn't do it myself as I take pride in what I do in life but if a lowlifer or gamer gets scammed in something they weren't smart enough to get out of ... that should be acceptable as a type of "future punishment" for being so stupid. Tough love I know and not trolling...it's how I feel on this.

    Now that being said...if I learned of someone as a scammer they would be a life-long enemy/adversary in everything they did and I would discredit anything they did or say. For example if a Facebook friend of mine was known to scam in WoW or Eve I would no longer be friends with them and view him as an enemy.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,426
    edited September 2016
    filmoret said:
    If the "scamming" occurs within the context of the game and does not consist of exploiting some bug then why in the world would we want a rule against it?

    If the "scamming" includes out of game components or exploiting bugs then that's a different story.

    The problem is the game doesn't provide a way to counter it.  Example Erillion just gave about the goons leader just taking everything and walking away with it.  Now there is nothing anyone can do about it and yes its a ton of money involved.
    So what?

    When you get killed in PvP match, there's no way to undo the damage that death did to you. Likewise, when you get scammed in EVE there's no way to undo the damage done.

    If you want a game where you lose nothing to other players, go play PvE games.
     
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    In my mind, all forms of video games is "you vs. the world." (Minus friends/family etc.) So, in my mind, if you can get scammed, it should be allowed. Now spammed...no. But a scam...sure why not. I wouldn't do it myself as I take pride in what I do in life but if a lowlifer or gamer gets scammed in something they weren't smart enough to get out of ... that should be acceptable as a type of "future punishment" for being so stupid. Tough love I know and not trolling...it's how I feel on this.
    First you have to open up a little bit because Eve is a very complex game.  Lets say you want one of those ships that cost more money then you can imagine.  So your friend offers to craft the ship but you need the blueprints first and some other items.  So naturally you grab those items and hand them over to the friend who can craft them and well he decides to craft it for himself and just sell the ship on the market instead.  Considering that some ships take literally thousands of players just to build.

    Nothing you could do about that.  You cannot survive in EVE if you do not trust someone somewhere and the temptation to just grab what you can and make a ton of money is very hard to resist.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • AriesTigerAriesTiger Member UncommonPosts: 444
    edited September 2016
    @filmoret The minute you "allow" or "accept" the idea of scammers you accept the idea of other grey-area topics as well by default.

    In my mind for a game to allow scammers would just be the game setting up targets for me. :)
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    filmoret said:
    In my mind, all forms of video games is "you vs. the world." (Minus friends/family etc.) So, in my mind, if you can get scammed, it should be allowed. Now spammed...no. But a scam...sure why not. I wouldn't do it myself as I take pride in what I do in life but if a lowlifer or gamer gets scammed in something they weren't smart enough to get out of ... that should be acceptable as a type of "future punishment" for being so stupid. Tough love I know and not trolling...it's how I feel on this.
    First you have to open up a little bit because Eve is a very complex game.  Lets say you want one of those ships that cost more money then you can imagine.  So your friend offers to craft the ship but you need the blueprints first and some other items.  So naturally you grab those items and hand them over to the friend who can craft them and well he decides to craft it for himself and just sell the ship on the market instead.  Considering that some ships take literally thousands of players just to build.

    Nothing you could do about that.  You cannot survive in EVE if you do not trust someone somewhere and the temptation to just grab what you can and make a ton of money is very hard to resist.

    That risk exists in any MMO you play with "friends" you meet online.  

    That type of behavior is not unique to Eve.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    H0urg1ass said:
    The entire economy depends on PVP.
    This is false for EVE.

    There are about as many ships destroyed in PVE as there are in PVP.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    filmoret said:
    Nothing you could do about that.
    And yet, those ships are made on daily basis.

    You talk nonsense, sorry.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    edited September 2016
    filmoret said:
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    Easy thing to say but once a faction gives money to a carrier for the purpose of getting some military supplies or making any kind of supply run. 
    If someone steals money for a supply run or to buy a carrier ... thats spare change. He gets blacklisted and is shot on sight in the future. BTW that is what middlemen like Chribba are for .. money changes hand after a job well done and the middleman ensures that both sides stay honest.

    What I find more interesting are the size of scams where someone gets the power to handle all the high end blueprints for a huge alliance ALONE, without needing the approval of a second person. And THEN he steals all those blueprints plus a shitload of corporate hangars, POS hangars, corporate wallets, Titan and mothership class ships etc. Like the Goon leader did when he fucked his own alliance.




    Have fun


    And all he has to do is create a new account and transfer it all over and noone knows who he is any more.  You acted like this was an easy thing to stop or avoid.  And yes you can sell ISK for real money and it is even connected through CCP.  So its legal ingame to do it.  I thought everyone knows this kind of stuff.
    Feel free to post a link for a CCP approved method to exchange ISK into real money. Such things only happen in "Second Life". 

    Real money to ISK via PLEX is known and approved. 

    Playing EVE "for free" via PLEX is known. But EVE is F2P now anyway. 


    Have fun
  • Asch126Asch126 Member RarePosts: 543
    In every game, there's scammers. If you fall for it, it's on you.

    In EVE Online, you HAVE to pay more attention to these things, so again, it's entirely on you.
  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,430
    edited September 2016
    Like someone else said, if it's within the context of the game, then absolutely.  If it's exploiting a bug or cheat or something, then not.  It adds a bit of danger to the game and makes you mind your environment.

    I've been scammed before in other games, and it sucks, but I roll with it and have fun.  Work on revenge and all those wonderful things that keep the blood warm.

    I self identify as a monkey.

  • CalfisCalfis Member UncommonPosts: 381
    filmoret said:
    So your friend offers to craft the ship but you need the blueprints first and some other items.  So naturally you grab those items and hand them over to the friend who can craft them and well he decides to craft it for himself and just sell the ship on the market instead. 
    I guess you should have realized he wasn't really your friend, friendo

    image

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    filmoret said:
    We have all heard the horror stories about people scamming other players in Eve and basically getting away with it because they don't offer any real way to counter or deal with it once it has been done.  What do you think about the situation of legal scamming?
    Virtually every scam in EVE works by tricking someone who thinks they're the one who's taking advantage of a chump.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

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