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Nope, the crafting system isn't good

QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,988
EverQuest II is one of the games that people sometimes cite when talking about games with good crafting systems.  Having just played Elsword for about a year, I was hoping to find a game that was good at something other than combat, so I gave EQ2 a try.  No such luck.

There is a crafting puzzle, as opposed to merely gather materials and then click to create a stack of items.  But there's only one crafting puzzle, and it's the same for every tradeskill.  The icons and flavor text change, but the mechanics don't.  And it's not even an interesting crafting puzzle, as it basically amounts to whack-a-mole.

Yes, it does have an enormous number of crafting recipes, and some stuff you can craft is at least useful.  But it's going to take ridiculous amounts of grinding something stupid to get there, which is not what I was hoping for.  Vanguard is the nearest comparison that comes to mind, which suffered the same problem and for about the same reasons.

So it's not exactly A Tale in the Desert, where even simple puzzles could have their difficultly ramped up by trying to do six of them at a time.  Nor is it Puzzle Pirates, or even FFXIV, where that one crafting puzzle is actually quite good with quite a bit of depth to it.

EQ2, like most MMORPGs, is primarily about combat.  I was hoping for good crafting with okay combat, and to call the combat okay is being generous.  It's not the worst combat you'll ever see, but it is another game of whack a mole, using abilities as they come off of cooldown.

The combat is really designed for grouping.  But grouping requires other players, which are in rather short supply here.  I did see another player around occasionally.  Singular, as in, generally only one at a time.

Comments

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,826
    Quizzical said:
    EverQuest II is one of the games that people sometimes cite when talking about games with good crafting systems.  Having just played Elsword for about a year, I was hoping to find a game that was good at something other than combat, so I gave EQ2 a try.  No such luck.

    There is a crafting puzzle, as opposed to merely gather materials and then click to create a stack of items.  But there's only one crafting puzzle, and it's the same for every tradeskill.  The icons and flavor text change, but the mechanics don't.  And it's not even an interesting crafting puzzle, as it basically amounts to whack-a-mole.

    Yes, it does have an enormous number of crafting recipes, and some stuff you can craft is at least useful.  But it's going to take ridiculous amounts of grinding something stupid to get there, which is not what I was hoping for.  Vanguard is the nearest comparison that comes to mind, which suffered the same problem and for about the same reasons.

    So it's not exactly A Tale in the Desert, where even simple puzzles could have their difficultly ramped up by trying to do six of them at a time.  Nor is it Puzzle Pirates, or even FFXIV, where that one crafting puzzle is actually quite good with quite a bit of depth to it.

    EQ2, like most MMORPGs, is primarily about combat.  I was hoping for good crafting with okay combat, and to call the combat okay is being generous.  It's not the worst combat you'll ever see, but it is another game of whack a mole, using abilities as they come off of cooldown.

    The combat is really designed for grouping.  But grouping requires other players, which are in rather short supply here.  I did see another player around occasionally.  Singular, as in, generally only one at a time.
     It is better crafting than the other game of 2004. Plus you never have to engage in combat in EQ2. You can just level through crafting. I have done it. 6 times. 

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Well, the original EQ2 crafting system was deeper/more complex(I don't really remember how much "better" it was though -- didn't play it too much back then).  It has long since been dumbed down.

    I agree, though.  I found the current crafting system pretty mindless and boring.  You basically just spam a couple power buttons over and over unless something RNG misfires that you have to fix.

    The good part is, like you said, that there's a bunch of stuff to craft(furniture, etc., for housing, spell tomes, and so on).

    As for EQ2 combat... well, I've said and will continue to say, EQ2 has some of the worst combat I've played.  It's horrible.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,182
    I agree, for the life of me i cant see what's so good about eq2 crafting. I just haven't found any upsides to EQ2, which is why I don't play it obviously. 

    EQ1(for the first 3 expansions) for me is the king of Everquest games.


    But hey some like eq2, so different strokes for different folks I guess.


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,988
    Quizzical said:
    EverQuest II is one of the games that people sometimes cite when talking about games with good crafting systems.  Having just played Elsword for about a year, I was hoping to find a game that was good at something other than combat, so I gave EQ2 a try.  No such luck.

    There is a crafting puzzle, as opposed to merely gather materials and then click to create a stack of items.  But there's only one crafting puzzle, and it's the same for every tradeskill.  The icons and flavor text change, but the mechanics don't.  And it's not even an interesting crafting puzzle, as it basically amounts to whack-a-mole.

    Yes, it does have an enormous number of crafting recipes, and some stuff you can craft is at least useful.  But it's going to take ridiculous amounts of grinding something stupid to get there, which is not what I was hoping for.  Vanguard is the nearest comparison that comes to mind, which suffered the same problem and for about the same reasons.

    So it's not exactly A Tale in the Desert, where even simple puzzles could have their difficultly ramped up by trying to do six of them at a time.  Nor is it Puzzle Pirates, or even FFXIV, where that one crafting puzzle is actually quite good with quite a bit of depth to it.

    EQ2, like most MMORPGs, is primarily about combat.  I was hoping for good crafting with okay combat, and to call the combat okay is being generous.  It's not the worst combat you'll ever see, but it is another game of whack a mole, using abilities as they come off of cooldown.

    The combat is really designed for grouping.  But grouping requires other players, which are in rather short supply here.  I did see another player around occasionally.  Singular, as in, generally only one at a time.
     It is better crafting than the other game of 2004. Plus you never have to engage in combat in EQ2. You can just level through crafting. I have done it. 6 times. 
    Better crafting than WoW is awfully faint praise.  Guild Wars 1 has better crafting than WoW and Guild Wars 1 doesn't even have a crafting system, unless you count hand materials to a vendor and get the crafted item in return.

    I was hoping for something more akin to FFXIV, rather than a system where the only challenge is to pay enough attention that you don't miss having to counter a problem for the entire four seconds.
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 8,922
    I love Everquest 2. Its the only game other than Lineage 2 that actually immersed me into the world. 

    Are the progression servers still populated? 
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,454
    Well the answer was hit on the nose>>>>useful items.In MOST games ,crafting is a complete waste of time.
    BTW crafting was changed several years ago and imo for the worse to make it EASIER.

    The real root of the problem is that the ONLY result people want or aim for is the top end,which makes all the other crafts a waste of time.Also SOE cheated on tons of icons and gear by repeating graphics instead of making new ones.
    Even still,you can make tons of housing items and really come out with some lovely looking homes,that is something 99% of the games can NOT do.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,826
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:
    EverQuest II is one of the games that people sometimes cite when talking about games with good crafting systems.  Having just played Elsword for about a year, I was hoping to find a game that was good at something other than combat, so I gave EQ2 a try.  No such luck.

    There is a crafting puzzle, as opposed to merely gather materials and then click to create a stack of items.  But there's only one crafting puzzle, and it's the same for every tradeskill.  The icons and flavor text change, but the mechanics don't.  And it's not even an interesting crafting puzzle, as it basically amounts to whack-a-mole.

    Yes, it does have an enormous number of crafting recipes, and some stuff you can craft is at least useful.  But it's going to take ridiculous amounts of grinding something stupid to get there, which is not what I was hoping for.  Vanguard is the nearest comparison that comes to mind, which suffered the same problem and for about the same reasons.

    So it's not exactly A Tale in the Desert, where even simple puzzles could have their difficultly ramped up by trying to do six of them at a time.  Nor is it Puzzle Pirates, or even FFXIV, where that one crafting puzzle is actually quite good with quite a bit of depth to it.

    EQ2, like most MMORPGs, is primarily about combat.  I was hoping for good crafting with okay combat, and to call the combat okay is being generous.  It's not the worst combat you'll ever see, but it is another game of whack a mole, using abilities as they come off of cooldown.

    The combat is really designed for grouping.  But grouping requires other players, which are in rather short supply here.  I did see another player around occasionally.  Singular, as in, generally only one at a time.
     It is better crafting than the other game of 2004. Plus you never have to engage in combat in EQ2. You can just level through crafting. I have done it. 6 times. 
    Better crafting than WoW is awfully faint praise.  Guild Wars 1 has better crafting than WoW and Guild Wars 1 doesn't even have a crafting system, unless you count hand materials to a vendor and get the crafted item in return.

    I was hoping for something more akin to FFXIV, rather than a system where the only challenge is to pay enough attention that you don't miss having to counter a problem for the entire four seconds.
    It used to be that way. The crafting was changed.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318
    lol. I play EQ2 all the time. Good crafting is not what I would call it and never have. But it is better than click and done that most games use. At least you have to mildly involved in what you craft. 
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,988
    Recore said:
    I love Everquest 2. Its the only game other than Lineage 2 that actually immersed me into the world. 

    Are the progression servers still populated? 
    Because nothing says immersion quite like system messages that particular mobs are no longer worth experience or loot because you've run too far away from where you aggroed them.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,489
    If you wanna see horrible crafting, play FFXI. As much as I loved that game, that crafting system...ugh.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,988
    There are a lot of games with terrible crafting systems.  EQ2's isn't exceptionally bad.  It's just not very good, either, and I had been hoping that it would be.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,826
    I honestly have never seen a really good crafting system in a game. From FF XIV to EQ2 to Vanguard to Fallen Earth to Wurm to Asheron's Call to Ultima Online and everything in between. I am playing Gloria Victis right now and it was supposed to be a good crafting system but it really isn't.
     

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  • KyarraKyarra Member UncommonPosts: 780
    I honestly have never seen a really good crafting system in a game. From FF XIV to EQ2 to Vanguard to Fallen Earth to Wurm to Asheron's Call to Ultima Online and everything in between. I am playing Gloria Victis right now and it was supposed to be a good crafting system but it really isn't.
     
    Well I guess you never played Star Wars Galaxies. Find me a game like that again please.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,826
    Kyarra said:
    I honestly have never seen a really good crafting system in a game. From FF XIV to EQ2 to Vanguard to Fallen Earth to Wurm to Asheron's Call to Ultima Online and everything in between. I am playing Gloria Victis right now and it was supposed to be a good crafting system but it really isn't.
     
    Well I guess you never played Star Wars Galaxies. Find me a game like that again please.
    I did for 5 or 6 weeks. Didn't like the crafting that game either.
     I just do not think crafting is paid as much attention as other systems in games. I have never played any game MMO or otherwise where the crafting was great. EQ2 I enjoyed well enough but a deeply enriching experience like the heritage quests were it was not.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,988
    I honestly have never seen a really good crafting system in a game. From FF XIV to EQ2 to Vanguard to Fallen Earth to Wurm to Asheron's Call to Ultima Online and everything in between. I am playing Gloria Victis right now and it was supposed to be a good crafting system but it really isn't.
     
    How about A Tale in the Desert?

    It's possible that you just don't like crafting, and whether the crafting system is good has nothing to do with it.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Quizzical said:
    EverQuest II is one of the games that people sometimes cite when talking about games with good crafting systems.  Having just played Elsword for about a year, I was hoping to find a game that was good at something other than combat, so I gave EQ2 a try.  No such luck.

    There is a crafting puzzle, as opposed to merely gather materials and then click to create a stack of items.  But there's only one crafting puzzle, and it's the same for every tradeskill.  The icons and flavor text change, but the mechanics don't.  And it's not even an interesting crafting puzzle, as it basically amounts to whack-a-mole.

    Yes, it does have an enormous number of crafting recipes, and some stuff you can craft is at least useful.  But it's going to take ridiculous amounts of grinding something stupid to get there, which is not what I was hoping for.  Vanguard is the nearest comparison that comes to mind, which suffered the same problem and for about the same reasons.

    So it's not exactly A Tale in the Desert, where even simple puzzles could have their difficultly ramped up by trying to do six of them at a time.  Nor is it Puzzle Pirates, or even FFXIV, where that one crafting puzzle is actually quite good with quite a bit of depth to it.

    EQ2, like most MMORPGs, is primarily about combat.  I was hoping for good crafting with okay combat, and to call the combat okay is being generous.  It's not the worst combat you'll ever see, but it is another game of whack a mole, using abilities as they come off of cooldown.

    The combat is really designed for grouping.  But grouping requires other players, which are in rather short supply here.  I did see another player around occasionally.  Singular, as in, generally only one at a time.
    agreed, I dont find EQ2 crafting remotely deep or good. I find it 'crafting light'.

    My only suggestion in the MMO space is likely 'too crafty' for most which would be Xyson or Wurm.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Kyarra said:
    I honestly have never seen a really good crafting system in a game. From FF XIV to EQ2 to Vanguard to Fallen Earth to Wurm to Asheron's Call to Ultima Online and everything in between. I am playing Gloria Victis right now and it was supposed to be a good crafting system but it really isn't.
     
    Well I guess you never played Star Wars Galaxies. Find me a game like that again please.
    I did for 5 or 6 weeks. Didn't like the crafting that game either.
     I just do not think crafting is paid as much attention as other systems in games. I have never played any game MMO or otherwise where the crafting was great. EQ2 I enjoyed well enough but a deeply enriching experience like the heritage quests were it was not.

    so to be clear you find the crafting system in EQ2 to be better than the crafting system in Fallen Earth or Wurm.


    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Kyarra said:
    I honestly have never seen a really good crafting system in a game. From FF XIV to EQ2 to Vanguard to Fallen Earth to Wurm to Asheron's Call to Ultima Online and everything in between. I am playing Gloria Victis right now and it was supposed to be a good crafting system but it really isn't.
     
    Well I guess you never played Star Wars Galaxies. Find me a game like that again please.
    I did for 5 or 6 weeks. Didn't like the crafting that game either.
     I just do not think crafting is paid as much attention as other systems in games. I have never played any game MMO or otherwise where the crafting was great. EQ2 I enjoyed well enough but a deeply enriching experience like the heritage quests were it was not.

    Honestly, when i look at a games crafting, SWG is usually the yardstick i measure it by, imo that game had awesome crafting, from Shipwright, to tailoring, to even weaponsmithing, each profession was useful, and sought after because a master of those professions could make some amazing things, though that was only part of it, getting the resources, making the blueprints for some of the items you needed in order to make something, it was without doubt, the most in depth crafting of any game i have ever played, and no game i have played since has achieved half of what was accomplished with the crafting system in SWG. All i can think of is if you didn't think much of it, then you probably saw the NGE'd version, by that time most of the crafters left, and the crafting community in SWG used to be huge. :o
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Phry said:
    Kyarra said:
    I honestly have never seen a really good crafting system in a game. From FF XIV to EQ2 to Vanguard to Fallen Earth to Wurm to Asheron's Call to Ultima Online and everything in between. I am playing Gloria Victis right now and it was supposed to be a good crafting system but it really isn't.
     
    Well I guess you never played Star Wars Galaxies. Find me a game like that again please.
    I did for 5 or 6 weeks. Didn't like the crafting that game either.
     I just do not think crafting is paid as much attention as other systems in games. I have never played any game MMO or otherwise where the crafting was great. EQ2 I enjoyed well enough but a deeply enriching experience like the heritage quests were it was not.

    Honestly, when i look at a games crafting, SWG is usually the yardstick i measure it by, imo that game had awesome crafting, from Shipwright, to tailoring, to even weaponsmithing, each profession was useful, and sought after because a master of those professions could make some amazing things, though that was only part of it, getting the resources, making the blueprints for some of the items you needed in order to make something, it was without doubt, the most in depth crafting of any game i have ever played, and no game i have played since has achieved half of what was accomplished with the crafting system in SWG. All i can think of is if you didn't think much of it, then you probably saw the NGE'd version, by that time most of the crafters left, and the crafting community in SWG used to be huge. :o
    I dont say this to be rude to blueturtle but I have to be honest. Its not uncommon for me to read a claim by a forum poster that i very frankly can not believe. and I find it hard to believe someone would say they like EQ2 crafting but not crafting in SWG, Fallen Earth (wurm I can see) . Its not something I can comprehend and the whole 'different strokes for different folks' doesnt work for me in that example

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • fodell54fodell54 Member RarePosts: 859
    Quizzical said:
    Recore said:
    I love Everquest 2. Its the only game other than Lineage 2 that actually immersed me into the world. 

    Are the progression servers still populated? 
    Because nothing says immersion quite like system messages that particular mobs are no longer worth experience or loot because you've run too far away from where you aggroed them.
    They like it, you don't. No reason to jump down their throat. People like different things and what's immersive and fun for one person may not be the same for another. Mileage may very.

    I personally really enjoyed my time in EQ2, when I played it. I do agree with you though. I really never cared for the crafting. However, I have really never cared for the crafting in any MMO I have every played. So, it maybe more about me not liking to craft then the actual system it's self.

    /shrugs
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