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ESO reveals that cosmetic item "gambling boxes" are coming soon.

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,773
    Torval said:

    I don't subscribe to the notion that every character in an RPG needs to start out looking like a peasant clone.
    I want to start out as a naked baby and work my way up from there.

    But you should really look into some of the microtransactions Squeenix is doingg for DE: Mankind Divided.

    IDK if you've played the previous DE but the whole roleplaying aspect of it revolves around unlocking augments that define your abilities and play style. You do this in the game by finding praxis kits... or buying them with in-game currency or earning them through XP.

    However with this new one you can also buy those in the cash shop/

    Which leads me to my prediction about the future of gaming:

    Soon we'll be able to buy and play the basic game as usual. But if you don't have the time to really play it, for an additional $100 you get to unlock all the achievements, get a digital certificate of completion and a "talking points" document that enables you to discuss the game semi-intelligently as if you had actually played it. 
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,406
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:

    I don't subscribe to the notion that every character in an RPG needs to start out looking like a peasant clone.
    I want to start out as a naked baby and work my way up from there.

    But you should really look into some of the microtransactions Squeenix is doingg for DE: Mankind Divided.

    IDK if you've played the previous DE but the whole roleplaying aspect of it revolves around unlocking augments that define your abilities and play style. You do this in the game by finding praxis kits... or buying them with in-game currency or earning them through XP.

    However with this new one you can also buy those in the cash shop/

    Which leads me to my prediction about the future of gaming:

    Soon we'll be able to buy and play the basic game as usual. But if you don't have the time to really play it, for an additional $100 you get to unlock all the achievements, get a digital certificate of completion and a "talking points" document that enables you to discuss the game semi-intelligently as if you had actually played it. 
    Yeah but those microtransactions in Deus Ex MD did not effect my game whatsoever.
    Just like they didn't in Assassin's Creed: Syndicate.
    It may come across a bit sketchy but at the same time game prices have remained stagnant for 20+ years while production costs have risen. Perhaps the residual income from these microtransactions have led to the development of sequels by helping with the production costs.
     If the microtransactions do not effect my game play. (more so in a single player game)
    I have zero issues with it. I just ignore it and play the game. 

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,773
     If the microtransactions do not effect my game play. (more so in a single player game)
    I have zero issues with it. I just ignore it and play the game. 
    If it's not the case already, very soon "ignore and play" will be the only option if you want to play at all.

    It's sort of like going to the movies if you like pop-corn. You need to ignore that a bag of pop-corn really isn't worth $10. I suppose I can always feel good about that concession stand worker having a job and a home and food on his table because he gets most of that $10... at least I can pretend he does :)
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:

    I don't subscribe to the notion that every character in an RPG needs to start out looking like a peasant clone.
    I want to start out as a naked baby and work my way up from there.

    But you should really look into some of the microtransactions Squeenix is doingg for DE: Mankind Divided.

    IDK if you've played the previous DE but the whole roleplaying aspect of it revolves around unlocking augments that define your abilities and play style. You do this in the game by finding praxis kits... or buying them with in-game currency or earning them through XP.

    However with this new one you can also buy those in the cash shop/

    Which leads me to my prediction about the future of gaming:

    Soon we'll be able to buy and play the basic game as usual. But if you don't have the time to really play it, for an additional $100 you get to unlock all the achievements, get a digital certificate of completion and a "talking points" document that enables you to discuss the game semi-intelligently as if you had actually played it. 
    Yeah but those microtransactions in Deus Ex MD did not effect my game whatsoever.
    Just like they didn't in Assassin's Creed: Syndicate.
    It may come across a bit sketchy but at the same time game prices have remained stagnant for 20+ years while production costs have risen. Perhaps the residual income from these microtransactions have led to the development of sequels by helping with the production costs.
     If the microtransactions do not effect my game play. (more so in a single player game)
    I have zero issues with it. I just ignore it and play the game. 
    I tend to find the whole microtransaction thing kind of silly.

    I agree with you in principle. But I draw the line when it comes to gambling style monetization. 

    There is zero place for that in games where we have young minds that are being molded.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • fineflufffinefluff Member UncommonPosts: 427
    For me "it doesn't affect me/you" is not a good argument. Monetization methods affect behavioral patterns of players and affect players psychological in how they view other players and their general approach to the game. Because I am expecting to play with other people in an MMO, even if I try to ignore it, it will still affect me because of how it will change other people.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,406
    naami said:
    For me "it doesn't affect me/you" is not a good argument. Monetization methods affect behavioral patterns of players and affect players psychological in how they view other players and their general approach to the game. Because I am expecting to play with other people in an MMO, even if I try to ignore it, it will still affect me because of how it will change other people.
    I don't agree with that at all. Monetization methods affect player behavior?  I don't believe that for a second. For SOME people it might. Yet that is not a blanket statement nor will it ever be.  

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • DeivosDeivos Member EpicPosts: 3,692
    edited September 2016
    To be fair, it's a true enough statement that lockboxes tend to make more money than selling the components in the store directly, even if the lockboxes are cheaper to buy/unlock per-item.

    The "why" of that point is what has people hung up. Something semantically cheaper per use to utilize causing a greater net cost to the consumers by virtue of random reward is an aspect that can very quickly turn people off since it plays directly into the gambling mindset and user habits.

    On that element too there also are psychological factors to consider since they are elements that interact with the user's gaming experience.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,528
    naami said:
    For me "it doesn't affect me/you" is not a good argument. Monetization methods affect behavioral patterns of players and affect players psychological in how they view other players and their general approach to the game. Because I am expecting to play with other people in an MMO, even if I try to ignore it, it will still affect me because of how it will change other people.
    I don't agree with that at all. Monetization methods affect player behavior?  I don't believe that for a second. For SOME people it might. Yet that is not a blanket statement nor will it ever be.  
    How can you say that in a thread where people are unsubscribing to a game that monetized cosmetic casino lock boxes?

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,406
    Nilden said:
    naami said:
    For me "it doesn't affect me/you" is not a good argument. Monetization methods affect behavioral patterns of players and affect players psychological in how they view other players and their general approach to the game. Because I am expecting to play with other people in an MMO, even if I try to ignore it, it will still affect me because of how it will change other people.
    I don't agree with that at all. Monetization methods affect player behavior?  I don't believe that for a second. For SOME people it might. Yet that is not a blanket statement nor will it ever be.  
    How can you say that in a thread where people are unsubscribing to a game that monetized cosmetic casino lock boxes?
    For me "it doesn't affect me/you" is not a good argument. Monetization methods affect behavioral patterns of players and affect players psychological in how they view other players and their general approach to the game.

    That is his quote. You agree with that? He is talking about the behavior of PLAYERS of a game not quiters of a game. Big difference. 

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • fineflufffinefluff Member UncommonPosts: 427
    I can think of a couple of examples. One is when wow started selling the celestial steed. Players that bought it were viewed differently by some players that did not and sometimes this led to them being made fun of. I personally don't remember any discrimination, like not inviting someone to a raid, but I don't think that it's outside of the realm of possibility.



    Another example is a game where you have lock boxes and keys. You can purchase the keys or try to earn them in game. A player might be incentivized to participate in activities that are more effective for a key vs activities that less effective, even if the activities that do are not all that fun. Like let's say killing mobs rewards a key but pvp doesn't, so the player would do less pvp and grind more mobs. Forgive me if I'm wrong because I haven't played it in years, but I think GW2 has something like this.

    I know that these are different cases than eso, but I believe there is an effect, however subtle. For example a player who spent a lot of money but didn't get what he wanted might feel frustrated and this can affect his behavior in game.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,406
    naami said:
    I can think of a couple of examples. One is when wow started selling the celestial steed. Players that bought it were viewed differently by some players that did not and sometimes this led to them being made fun of. I personally don't remember any discrimination, like not inviting someone to a raid, but I don't think that it's outside of the realm of possibility.



    Another example is a game where you have lock boxes and keys. You can purchase the keys or try to earn them in game. A player might be incentivized to participate in activities that are more effective for a key vs activities that less effective, even if the activities that do are not all that fun. Like let's say killing mobs rewards a key but pvp doesn't, so the player would do less pvp and grind more mobs. Forgive me if I'm wrong because I haven't played it in years, but I think GW2 has something like this.

    I know that these are different cases than eso, but I believe there is an effect, however subtle. For example a player who spent a lot of money but didn't get what he wanted might feel frustrated and this can affect his behavior in game.
    Lots of 'cans' and 'mights' there. Sound like a generalization, not a blanket statement that effects the community as a whole or even at a majority level.  Like I said, It may effect SOME players. Yet everything in a game effects SOME players.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • Joseph_KerrJoseph_Kerr Member RarePosts: 1,113
    Shame, DING!
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,406
    laserit said:
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:

    I don't subscribe to the notion that every character in an RPG needs to start out looking like a peasant clone.
    I want to start out as a naked baby and work my way up from there.

    But you should really look into some of the microtransactions Squeenix is doingg for DE: Mankind Divided.

    IDK if you've played the previous DE but the whole roleplaying aspect of it revolves around unlocking augments that define your abilities and play style. You do this in the game by finding praxis kits... or buying them with in-game currency or earning them through XP.

    However with this new one you can also buy those in the cash shop/

    Which leads me to my prediction about the future of gaming:

    Soon we'll be able to buy and play the basic game as usual. But if you don't have the time to really play it, for an additional $100 you get to unlock all the achievements, get a digital certificate of completion and a "talking points" document that enables you to discuss the game semi-intelligently as if you had actually played it. 
    Yeah but those microtransactions in Deus Ex MD did not effect my game whatsoever.
    Just like they didn't in Assassin's Creed: Syndicate.
    It may come across a bit sketchy but at the same time game prices have remained stagnant for 20+ years while production costs have risen. Perhaps the residual income from these microtransactions have led to the development of sequels by helping with the production costs.
     If the microtransactions do not effect my game play. (more so in a single player game)
    I have zero issues with it. I just ignore it and play the game. 
    I tend to find the whole microtransaction thing kind of silly.

    I agree with you in principle. But I draw the line when it comes to gambling style monetization. 

    There is zero place for that in games where we have young minds that are being molded.
    I agree that there are impressionable minds that play games but the facts point to the average age of gamers to be in the 30's. That is who is more than anyone buying these items.
    There should be more concern with questionable monetization in the mobile sector which is the largest gaming market and the one with the most kids playing. Not MMOs. Or two 'M' rated games like Deus Ex MD or AC Syndicate.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • fineflufffinefluff Member UncommonPosts: 427
    What I mean to say is that on some level the monetization influences how players will approach a game and their attitude. I believe this is true for all players. I also believe that changes in monetization can lead to changes in the players base. I don't have hard evidence for this, but it is my feeling and opinion.

    Looking at it from the point of view of it only affecting some players. I say that since there is a case for some players being affected that means "it doesn't affect you" is not a good argument for or against a particular method of monetization because you can't know who is affected and who is not.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,528
    Nilden said:
    naami said:
    For me "it doesn't affect me/you" is not a good argument. Monetization methods affect behavioral patterns of players and affect players psychological in how they view other players and their general approach to the game. Because I am expecting to play with other people in an MMO, even if I try to ignore it, it will still affect me because of how it will change other people.
    I don't agree with that at all. Monetization methods affect player behavior?  I don't believe that for a second. For SOME people it might. Yet that is not a blanket statement nor will it ever be.  
    How can you say that in a thread where people are unsubscribing to a game that monetized cosmetic casino lock boxes?
    For me "it doesn't affect me/you" is not a good argument. Monetization methods affect behavioral patterns of players and affect players psychological in how they view other players and their general approach to the game.

    That is his quote. You agree with that? He is talking about the behavior of PLAYERS of a game not quiters of a game. Big difference. 
    Those quitters used to be players whos behavior is a result of monetization.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,406
    naami said:
    What I mean to say is that on some level the monetization influences how players will approach a game and their attitude. I believe this is true for all players. I also believe that changes in monetization can lead to changes in the players base. I don't have hard evidence for this, but it is my feeling and opinion.

    Looking at it from the point of view of it only affecting some players. I say that since there is a case for some players being affected that means "it doesn't affect you" is not a good argument for or against a particular method of monetization because you can't know who is affected and who is not.
    Well saying 'it does affect you' is not a good argument either because you can't know who is affected and who is not. It goes both ways and is purely subjective and open to only opinions influenced by our own personal feelings about it.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    laserit said:
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:

    I don't subscribe to the notion that every character in an RPG needs to start out looking like a peasant clone.
    I want to start out as a naked baby and work my way up from there.

    But you should really look into some of the microtransactions Squeenix is doingg for DE: Mankind Divided.

    IDK if you've played the previous DE but the whole roleplaying aspect of it revolves around unlocking augments that define your abilities and play style. You do this in the game by finding praxis kits... or buying them with in-game currency or earning them through XP.

    However with this new one you can also buy those in the cash shop/

    Which leads me to my prediction about the future of gaming:

    Soon we'll be able to buy and play the basic game as usual. But if you don't have the time to really play it, for an additional $100 you get to unlock all the achievements, get a digital certificate of completion and a "talking points" document that enables you to discuss the game semi-intelligently as if you had actually played it. 
    Yeah but those microtransactions in Deus Ex MD did not effect my game whatsoever.
    Just like they didn't in Assassin's Creed: Syndicate.
    It may come across a bit sketchy but at the same time game prices have remained stagnant for 20+ years while production costs have risen. Perhaps the residual income from these microtransactions have led to the development of sequels by helping with the production costs.
     If the microtransactions do not effect my game play. (more so in a single player game)
    I have zero issues with it. I just ignore it and play the game. 
    I tend to find the whole microtransaction thing kind of silly.

    I agree with you in principle. But I draw the line when it comes to gambling style monetization. 

    There is zero place for that in games where we have young minds that are being molded.
    I agree that there are impressionable minds that play games but the facts point to the average age of gamers to be in the 30's. That is who is more than anyone buying these items.
    There should be more concern with questionable monetization in the mobile sector which is the largest gaming market and the one with the most kids playing. Not MMOs. Or two 'M' rated games like Deus Ex MD or AC Syndicate.
    I draw no distinction between MMO's, Mobile games, or M rated games.

    They are all videogames.

     All the people 30+ playing video games now, played them as children too. M rated games are still purchasable by minors.

    There isn't a positive thing you can say for gambling style monetization in video games. I think we're at a time when the vast majority of children in the west play video games so what the hell are we thinking putting gambling style mechanics and monetization in our video games?

    Have our ethics really sunk that low?

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    laserit said:

    Have our ethics really sunk that low?
    The gaming industry is just catching up with corporate America so the short answer to your question is YES!
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,406
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:

    I don't subscribe to the notion that every character in an RPG needs to start out looking like a peasant clone.
    I want to start out as a naked baby and work my way up from there.

    But you should really look into some of the microtransactions Squeenix is doingg for DE: Mankind Divided.

    IDK if you've played the previous DE but the whole roleplaying aspect of it revolves around unlocking augments that define your abilities and play style. You do this in the game by finding praxis kits... or buying them with in-game currency or earning them through XP.

    However with this new one you can also buy those in the cash shop/

    Which leads me to my prediction about the future of gaming:

    Soon we'll be able to buy and play the basic game as usual. But if you don't have the time to really play it, for an additional $100 you get to unlock all the achievements, get a digital certificate of completion and a "talking points" document that enables you to discuss the game semi-intelligently as if you had actually played it. 
    Yeah but those microtransactions in Deus Ex MD did not effect my game whatsoever.
    Just like they didn't in Assassin's Creed: Syndicate.
    It may come across a bit sketchy but at the same time game prices have remained stagnant for 20+ years while production costs have risen. Perhaps the residual income from these microtransactions have led to the development of sequels by helping with the production costs.
     If the microtransactions do not effect my game play. (more so in a single player game)
    I have zero issues with it. I just ignore it and play the game. 
    I tend to find the whole microtransaction thing kind of silly.

    I agree with you in principle. But I draw the line when it comes to gambling style monetization. 

    There is zero place for that in games where we have young minds that are being molded.
    I agree that there are impressionable minds that play games but the facts point to the average age of gamers to be in the 30's. That is who is more than anyone buying these items.
    There should be more concern with questionable monetization in the mobile sector which is the largest gaming market and the one with the most kids playing. Not MMOs. Or two 'M' rated games like Deus Ex MD or AC Syndicate.
    I draw no distinction between MMO's, Mobile games, or M rated games.

    They are all videogames.


    Perhaps you don't but as a parent I do.
    My daughter is allowed to play Wizards 101 and Jumpstart but not LOTRO or EQ2.
    I police her habits in the mobile arena so she is getting content suitable for her age group.
    I never let my children play 'M' rated games and I do not play them in front of them.
    We have a responsibility to our children as parents to, you know, parent them.
    Seems, besides personal moral dislike, the real issue you have with children being exposed to them is that the parents are allowing them access to them in the first place.

    There is a distinction to be made.

    If the lottery is legal (which it is) if many states offer riverboat or casino gambling (which many do) then a game has the right to do so as well. Look at the rise and success of internet poker or video slots. Gambling has been around for thousands of years and honestly whether we have a personal moral high ground against them or not they are not going anywhere.

    We can kick and scream and gnash our teeth about it all we want to but they have proven popular and lucrative. No matter or care is given to those who do not like it. All we as parents and/or gamers can do is chose which games to play and if they do not offer that as an option, speak with our wallets and back those games instead.  

    It is not about saying something positive about loot boxes because not everyone agreed with you and sees it as an issue. You have an opinion and are entitled to it. You also have the option to speak with your wallet and not support a company that adds them. Just as the developers and publishers have a right to add them to supplement their income for a better ROI. This system of monetization is not new by any means. It has been around for a long time now. It is not going anywhere as long as people pay for it. Which they apparently do. 

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • Kane72Kane72 Member UncommonPosts: 211
    Nilden said:
    Oh boy more cash shop cancer.

    Pay to look cool. Instead of playing the game to get cool rewards, just buy RNG lockboxes. Yeah up yours.
    But no-one forces you to buy it, so let them make money from those who want to spend it. You never know, it might help to fund more content.
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