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For the detractors - what would it take

DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,207
I thought I'd ask a serious question that I'm genuinely curious about:

Aside from the game actually being released - what would it take to make you believe the project ends up being worthwhile in the end?
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Comments

  • MareliusMarelius Member UncommonPosts: 130
    Well instead of attempting to sell more ships, I would need to see a real game and not keep running the concept demos all the time. I would like to see Major Tom actually play the demo and say, damn it I been wrong this is starting to look like a real game. 

    But the big thing would be they stop ship selling and actually show a real alpha/beta. Hell or show the engine they created with cryengine. They need to show something real and the engine would really take it a step further. Alas all they keep doing is attempting to sell more ships. Which just shows they need more money to make a real cryengine engine that can build Star Citizen.

    Oh also the normal things we would see is opening Citizencon with something big and then say you will see it big time on Friday. Yet it seems like they started with same old stuff ship selling. 

    Now don't jump all over me you asked! 
    Sometimes it's not always about what you can see or hear but what's under the hood of a game that's most impressive. Between those thousands and thousands of lines of code, magic happens. Sometimes the most amazing feats of gaming wizardry happen without you even noticing.

    Rob Manuel

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,850
    If releasing the game is not an option, then either
     a) Chris Roberts using alien mind control device to enslave human race and make us all believe in Star Citizen, or
     b) Star Citizen dev team inventing time machine and using it to change to change the project's past
     
  • NephaeriusNephaerius Member UncommonPosts: 1,671
    For me, nothing except releasing the game. This is my stance on all games though so no unfair bias to SC.

    Steam: Neph

  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,465
    You dont even have to go that far.

    How about focus on SQ 42. Like I said I would start to believe a SMALL portion of what these guys are now claiming if they showcase  WORKING SQ module that is basically playable. Their Arena Commander is probably where their SQ 42 should be, if they expect SQ 42 to be out for retail sale next year. I have watched this live stream for about 3.5 hours now and they have had about 10 crashes of some sort or another. So while its playable it certainly isnt retail ready (despite the lowering standards many games continue to set). But it is probably at a state where it could possibly be retail ready (if it were a stand alone module) in a year or so. 

    I amnot sure of the 'content' difference, but I would hope that SQ 42 would also have much much much more content than AC has in it. Which is also another concern, and why if they are trying to tell people with a straight face that a retail version of SQ 42 will be available (at ANY point) in the 2017 calendar year, they had better have something that surpassed AC in scope and at least matches it in performance (which as I said isnt that great).
  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433
    Release Squadron 42 and have it actually be worthwile and good. That's all pretty much.

    I won't ever back this game but if they manage to do the above I'll definitely buy both SQ42 and have more faith in the final product.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Marelius said:
    Well instead of attempting to sell more ships, I would need to see a real game and not keep running the concept demos all the time. I would like to see Major Tom actually play the demo and say, damn it I been wrong this is starting to look like a real game. 

    But the big thing would be they stop ship selling and actually show a real alpha/beta. Hell or show the engine they created with cryengine. They need to show something real and the engine would really take it a step further. Alas all they keep doing is attempting to sell more ships. Which just shows they need more money to make a real cryengine engine that can build Star Citizen.

    Oh also the normal things we would see is opening Citizencon with something big and then say you will see it big time on Friday. Yet it seems like they started with same old stuff ship selling. 

    Now don't jump all over me you asked! 

    I'll ask why? Why stop selling ships? If I hired a janitor, I'm not going to have him helping my development team make some software, I'm probably going to have him cleaning the shitter. Same deal, if I hire some artists for making ship models, they should be doing that. If I have a sales staff, I expect they will be selling. The development team are the ones making the game. What would you have artists or sales staff or marketing staff do? 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • spankybusspankybus Member UncommonPosts: 1,366
    Honestly, some of the haters of this game are so in love with their hate...

    Even if Star Citizen released looking like this:



    They would still be like:



    Some folks are just miserable and love to share.

    Not saying that SC is flawless, but seriously, some people just take it to a whole other level.

    Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
    www.spankybus.com
    -3d Artist & Compositor
    -Writer
    -Professional Amature

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,567
    DKLond said:
    I thought I'd ask a serious question that I'm genuinely curious about:

    Aside from the game actually being released - what would it take to make you believe the project ends up being worthwhile in the end?
    At this point the one thing that would change my opinion is the one thing you ruled out. Seeing a working game would be the only thing that will convince me now. I'm not talking "modules", I mean a fully working, fully fleshed out game.

    For it to be worthwile, that finished game would also have to be pretty fucking good and not some empty, open ended sandbox that didn't give it's player base the tools they need to create content.
  • JermzyJermzy Member UncommonPosts: 211
    CrazKanuk said:
    Marelius said:
    Well instead of attempting to sell more ships, I would need to see a real game and not keep running the concept demos all the time. I would like to see Major Tom actually play the demo and say, damn it I been wrong this is starting to look like a real game. 

    But the big thing would be they stop ship selling and actually show a real alpha/beta. Hell or show the engine they created with cryengine. They need to show something real and the engine would really take it a step further. Alas all they keep doing is attempting to sell more ships. Which just shows they need more money to make a real cryengine engine that can build Star Citizen.

    Oh also the normal things we would see is opening Citizencon with something big and then say you will see it big time on Friday. Yet it seems like they started with same old stuff ship selling. 

    Now don't jump all over me you asked! 

    I'll ask why? Why stop selling ships? If I hired a janitor, I'm not going to have him helping my development team make some software, I'm probably going to have him cleaning the shitter. Same deal, if I hire some artists for making ship models, they should be doing that. If I have a sales staff, I expect they will be selling. The development team are the ones making the game. What would you have artists or sales staff or marketing staff do? 
    Why pay someone to clean a bathroom when it is already spotless?  
    Artists should be working on the game, not stuff to sell pre-launch for more money.  There is no need for any sales staff yet and the marketing department already has a nightmare on their hands which should be keeping them gainfully employed.
    Haroo!
  • VorpalChicken28VorpalChicken28 Member UncommonPosts: 348
    Space games have always been niche games, it was one of the issues they used to have in the past in getting funding, plus it's hardly surprising that SC has low figures when it comes to streaming, there's not a lot to do in it atm as it's still missing a huge portion of it's features.
    “Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” 
    ― Terry PratchettMaking Money
  • WalkinGlennWalkinGlenn Member UncommonPosts: 316
    edited August 2016
    Open the books and show people where the money went and how much Chris, Sandi and Ortin have whored off this project. Kick them to the curb then I'll gladly throw them like 250 beans for a package.

    If this game released tomorrow and was actually amazing I would admit all wrong doings, claim every banned account and admit all trashed talked. 

    As it stands, that's not going to happen. If they release anything, it will be just enough to keel even the most ravenous of fanboys from turning on them so they can keep taking money from nerds and trying to pump out the next piece to their continued MVP.


    Also fire Ben Lesneck. That dude is a real creep. Ain't nobody got time for creepy stalkers in Star Citizen. Lando can stay because like myself, he can grow one epic fucking beard.
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,340
    DKLond said:
    I thought I'd ask a serious question that I'm genuinely curious about:

    Aside from the game actually being released - what would it take to make you believe the project ends up being worthwhile in the end?

    When I see some of the many features actually in place in the game, when I see the game become multi star system, when I see a functioning economy, when I see mining, salvaging, walking talking NPC's, when I see PG landings in game and not in editor, when I see places like ArcCorp integrated somwhere on a planet, when I see Star Citizen become more than just a test bed.

    Hoping that Gamescom and CitizenCon are the start of that.

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,856
    Focus on one game instead of expanding with more games.  

    Also for the fans to take it easy and not be so defensive about the game.  I like GW2 if someone complains about it I let it go, everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I don't feel the need to respond to, justify, and correct every allegation that's made against GW2, in SC forums no negative comment is allowed to be left unchallenged, ever.  Normally you only see stuff like that in religion forums.  It's just a game.  

    Also the ships are very overpriced.  

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Jermzy said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Marelius said:
    Well instead of attempting to sell more ships, I would need to see a real game and not keep running the concept demos all the time. I would like to see Major Tom actually play the demo and say, damn it I been wrong this is starting to look like a real game. 

    But the big thing would be they stop ship selling and actually show a real alpha/beta. Hell or show the engine they created with cryengine. They need to show something real and the engine would really take it a step further. Alas all they keep doing is attempting to sell more ships. Which just shows they need more money to make a real cryengine engine that can build Star Citizen.

    Oh also the normal things we would see is opening Citizencon with something big and then say you will see it big time on Friday. Yet it seems like they started with same old stuff ship selling. 

    Now don't jump all over me you asked! 

    I'll ask why? Why stop selling ships? If I hired a janitor, I'm not going to have him helping my development team make some software, I'm probably going to have him cleaning the shitter. Same deal, if I hire some artists for making ship models, they should be doing that. If I have a sales staff, I expect they will be selling. The development team are the ones making the game. What would you have artists or sales staff or marketing staff do? 
    Why pay someone to clean a bathroom when it is already spotless?  
    Artists should be working on the game, not stuff to sell pre-launch for more money.  There is no need for any sales staff yet and the marketing department already has a nightmare on their hands which should be keeping them gainfully employed.


    Simple, someone is eventually going to have a shit. Similarly, the model they chose was to be crowdfunded (HUGE MISTAKE). That means that they require people to sell to fans and get money AND they need artists to build models specifically for that. What percentage of their workforce is dedicated to that? I don't know, but since the game development staff is a liability until release, what does it matter? I didn't think it was that difficult to understand. 

    Why is crowdfunding a huge mistake? While I'm a huge fan of it, you just take a look at any long-cycle development project that's out there right now and people just bitch and moan and whine until the cows come home. SotA is another classic example, I just saw a thread on CU this morning. I think that ED did it right. Sell a minimalist vision to customers, deliver the very simplest thing (because people aren't patient enough to actually wait for anything), and then sell them add-ons which actually deliver the essence of your vision. In the meantime, take on investors to release your original game. It's a little bit sad, but not unexpected. I can't even count on two hands how many crowdfunding games (even those which released) were full of perpetual whining and bitching about release dates. 


    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Open the books and show people where the money went and how much Chris, Sandi and Ortin have whored off this project. Kick them to the curb then I'll gladly throw them like 250 beans for a package.

    If this game released tomorrow and was actually amazing I would admit all wrong doings, claim every banned account and admit all trashed talked. 

    As it stands, that's not going to happen. If they release anything, it will be just enough to keel even the most ravenous of fanboys from turning on them so they can keep taking money from nerds and trying to pump out the next piece to their continued MVP.


    Also fire Ben Lesneck. That dude is a real creep. Ain't nobody got time for creepy stalkers in Star Citizen. Lando can stay because like myself, he can grow one epic fucking beard.

    Lol, there is no need to open the books. Do the math. Even if the books were opened, just admit you'd find something else to bitch about. Seen it before time and time again. See, you're just doing your own marketing, you're stating the impossible to make yourself look genuine. "If this game was released tomorrow and was actually amazing...." Something that wouldn't happen because there wasn't an announcement and something that's entirely subjective, so if you didn't happen to like it, you could still bitch and moan to your hearts content. Here, I'll give you an example, "If God himself came down today and said I was wrong, then I would apologize to you and eat my sock." 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,465
    CrazKanuk said:


    Simple, someone is eventually going to have a shit. Similarly, the model they chose was to be crowdfunded (HUGE MISTAKE). That means that they require people to sell to fans and get money AND they need artists to build models specifically for that. What percentage of their workforce is dedicated to that? I don't know, but since the game development staff is a liability until release, what does it matter? I didn't think it was that difficult to understand. 

    Why is crowdfunding a huge mistake? While I'm a huge fan of it, you just take a look at any long-cycle development project that's out there right now and people just bitch and moan and whine until the cows come home. SotA is another classic example, I just saw a thread on CU this morning. I think that ED did it right. Sell a minimalist vision to customers, deliver the very simplest thing (because people aren't patient enough to actually wait for anything), and then sell them add-ons which actually deliver the essence of your vision. In the meantime, take on investors to release your original game. It's a little bit sad, but not unexpected. I can't even count on two hands how many crowdfunding games (even those which released) were full of perpetual whining and bitching about release dates. 


    Nah crowdfunding was just the hook, thats why now after the fact and all the asking for refunds and chargebacks they have tried to separate it. Claiming that you dontated to the project after the fact and that you got something in return for those donations. But theyre still ona lsippery slope because they dont want to outright say "hey you F-ing bought a ship and you got it" because then that opens them up to tax issues, no matter what country they try and claim.

    I am sure they did have a competent person run the numbers to see what would be cheaper. Changing the ToS (and hoping they would get away with it) and/or changing the obvious ship sales to admitted ship sales and eating any taxes they might have to pay or just going ahead and taking the chargeback ad refund hit.

    While this project has been a complete comedy of errors they have certainly covered all their bases in regards to protecting the money. Which should tell people all they need to know about what is really going on. They could have the IRS or whatever government agency crawl up their ass with a microscope ad not find anything 'illegal' in terms of how they made the money they did or where it has gone. But some random streamer can find 50 different things in the game or in their projected development that are completely debunked as out right lies or impossibilities.
  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Open the books and show people where the money went and how much Chris, Sandi and Ortin have whored off this project. Kick them to the curb then I'll gladly throw them like 250 beans for a package.



    Also fire Ben Lesneck. That dude is a real creep. Ain't nobody got time for creepy stalkers in Star Citizen. Lando can stay because like myself, he can grow one epic fucking beard.
    The OP asked a serious question and deserves a serious and rational answer.

    If this is part of an answer you deem as rational then i am at awe.

    Tho things come in my mind. Either you have a personal grudge against CR and his wife unrelated to SC or the development of SC affects you somehow in a personal level.

    If neither of the above is the case then pardon me but you have some severe emotion control issues.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,776
    Open their doors and their books and offer 100% transparency to everyone who wants to see, and show a track record of financial responsibility with backer funds.
  • WalkinGlennWalkinGlenn Member UncommonPosts: 316
    Shodanas said:
    Open the books and show people where the money went and how much Chris, Sandi and Ortin have whored off this project. Kick them to the curb then I'll gladly throw them like 250 beans for a package.



    Also fire Ben Lesneck. That dude is a real creep. Ain't nobody got time for creepy stalkers in Star Citizen. Lando can stay because like myself, he can grow one epic fucking beard.
    The OP asked a serious question and deserves a serious and rational answer.

    If this is part of an answer you deem as rational then i am at awe.

    Tho things come in my mind. Either you have a personal grudge against CR and his wife unrelated to SC or the development of SC affects you somehow in a personal level.

    If neither of the above is the case then pardon me but you have some severe emotion control issues.
     I answered it seriously. No reason to get you little green panties all in a tizzie.
  • SulaaSulaa Member UncommonPosts: 1,329
    edited August 2016
    You answered yourself OP.


    Only actual delivery can mean anything. 
  • MareliusMarelius Member UncommonPosts: 130
    CrazKanuk said:
    Marelius said:
    Well instead of attempting to sell more ships, I would need to see a real game and not keep running the concept demos all the time. I would like to see Major Tom actually play the demo and say, damn it I been wrong this is starting to look like a real game. 

    But the big thing would be they stop ship selling and actually show a real alpha/beta. Hell or show the engine they created with cryengine. They need to show something real and the engine would really take it a step further. Alas all they keep doing is attempting to sell more ships. Which just shows they need more money to make a real cryengine engine that can build Star Citizen.

    Oh also the normal things we would see is opening Citizencon with something big and then say you will see it big time on Friday. Yet it seems like they started with same old stuff ship selling. 

    Now don't jump all over me you asked! 

    I'll ask why? Why stop selling ships? If I hired a janitor, I'm not going to have him helping my development team make some software, I'm probably going to have him cleaning the shitter. Same deal, if I hire some artists for making ship models, they should be doing that. If I have a sales staff, I expect they will be selling. The development team are the ones making the game. What would you have artists or sales staff or marketing staff do? 
    This is the whole problem with Roberts and CIG and of course backers. Even though I have doubts people posting here are really backers. Starting to think they are connected with company. Which even makes more of us thinking this is nothing but a scam. 

    Just my opinion go on and attack like you always do. 
    Sometimes it's not always about what you can see or hear but what's under the hood of a game that's most impressive. Between those thousands and thousands of lines of code, magic happens. Sometimes the most amazing feats of gaming wizardry happen without you even noticing.

    Rob Manuel

  • VorpalChicken28VorpalChicken28 Member UncommonPosts: 348
    Shodanas said:
    Open the books and show people where the money went and how much Chris, Sandi and Ortin have whored off this project. Kick them to the curb then I'll gladly throw them like 250 beans for a package.



    Also fire Ben Lesneck. That dude is a real creep. Ain't nobody got time for creepy stalkers in Star Citizen. Lando can stay because like myself, he can grow one epic fucking beard.
    The OP asked a serious question and deserves a serious and rational answer.

    If this is part of an answer you deem as rational then i am at awe.

    Tho things come in my mind. Either you have a personal grudge against CR and his wife unrelated to SC or the development of SC affects you somehow in a personal level.

    If neither of the above is the case then pardon me but you have some severe emotion control issues.
    I would also like to know where the money has been spent, at the moment there are 3 companies registered in the UK to Chris Roberts, Erin Roberts and Ortwin Freyermuth.

    What can be shown from Foundery 42 was that in 2014 the Director's renumeration (aka wages) was £187,500 and in 2015 it was £192,915, assuming that this was split equally 3 ways (as there are 3 directors) then they each earned over a 2 year period £126,805 ( $164,954 / €146,355 at current currency rates)

    This ONLY covers the UK companies, with the knowledge that I have about international companies I do not doubt you'll find that they are taking a similar amount from their US based (and registered) companies.
    “Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” 
    ― Terry PratchettMaking Money
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    So far Chris lied to create hype.  Then used it suck money out of people.  I don't see any universe in which Chris stops lying in order to make money.  I just don't like being lied to and taken advantage of regardless of results.  I have more self respect then that.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    Marelius said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Marelius said:
    Well instead of attempting to sell more ships, I would need to see a real game and not keep running the concept demos all the time. I would like to see Major Tom actually play the demo and say, damn it I been wrong this is starting to look like a real game. 

    But the big thing would be they stop ship selling and actually show a real alpha/beta. Hell or show the engine they created with cryengine. They need to show something real and the engine would really take it a step further. Alas all they keep doing is attempting to sell more ships. Which just shows they need more money to make a real cryengine engine that can build Star Citizen.

    Oh also the normal things we would see is opening Citizencon with something big and then say you will see it big time on Friday. Yet it seems like they started with same old stuff ship selling. 

    Now don't jump all over me you asked! 

    I'll ask why? Why stop selling ships? If I hired a janitor, I'm not going to have him helping my development team make some software, I'm probably going to have him cleaning the shitter. Same deal, if I hire some artists for making ship models, they should be doing that. If I have a sales staff, I expect they will be selling. The development team are the ones making the game. What would you have artists or sales staff or marketing staff do? 
    This is the whole problem with Roberts and CIG and of course backers. Even though I have doubts people posting here are really backers. Starting to think they are connected with company. Which even makes more of us thinking this is nothing but a scam. 

    Just my opinion go on and attack like you always do. 
    @CrazKanuk has had a forum account since 2009, thousands of posts on a multitude of topics. You on the other hand, have had an account since May 4 of this year and basically all of your posts are SC bashing.

    And you call @CrazKanuk into question?

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    laserit said:
    Marelius said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Marelius said:
    Well instead of attempting to sell more ships, I would need to see a real game and not keep running the concept demos all the time. I would like to see Major Tom actually play the demo and say, damn it I been wrong this is starting to look like a real game. 

    But the big thing would be they stop ship selling and actually show a real alpha/beta. Hell or show the engine they created with cryengine. They need to show something real and the engine would really take it a step further. Alas all they keep doing is attempting to sell more ships. Which just shows they need more money to make a real cryengine engine that can build Star Citizen.

    Oh also the normal things we would see is opening Citizencon with something big and then say you will see it big time on Friday. Yet it seems like they started with same old stuff ship selling. 

    Now don't jump all over me you asked! 

    I'll ask why? Why stop selling ships? If I hired a janitor, I'm not going to have him helping my development team make some software, I'm probably going to have him cleaning the shitter. Same deal, if I hire some artists for making ship models, they should be doing that. If I have a sales staff, I expect they will be selling. The development team are the ones making the game. What would you have artists or sales staff or marketing staff do? 
    This is the whole problem with Roberts and CIG and of course backers. Even though I have doubts people posting here are really backers. Starting to think they are connected with company. Which even makes more of us thinking this is nothing but a scam. 

    Just my opinion go on and attack like you always do. 
    @CrazKanuk has had a forum account since 2009, thousands of posts on a multitude of topics. You on the other hand, have had an account since May 4 of this year and basically all of your posts are SC bashing.

    And you call @CrazKanuk into question?
    Do you remember a user with Clint Eastwood as his avatar ? It's him. :p
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