The real problem with MMOs is the dreaded F2P/P2W business model.
I've played so many MMOs that were good and enjoyable before the devs decided to make them into F2P/P2W-garbage. They all had their flaws, but the devs could've easily fixed the issues if they would've only been happy with their amount of paying customers. AoC, STO, SWTOR, TSW... they all suffered from the greed of the developers, nothing else.
no the problem is we need spvp map
look at bdo. player want to stay competitive with less grind
how should i break it to you guys...If a AAA company with 300 million dollars and top notch teams can not make good MMO , what you expect from few part time students on a shoestring budget ?
2 things.
1 - I firmly believe most creative minds do not have their pockets filled with money, and that is what it will take to make a good mmorpg. A collection of creative minds (where companies are failing at this which I believe is caused by greed, control, lack of professionalism, and rushed behavior).
2- Do you believe some of the mmorpg's you have played before 2004 offered a better gameplay experience than the ones that do now? My answer is yes. There are a few collection of reasons. Communities weren't nearly as toxic or mouth foamy. Companies were small and cared about producing a good working product and keeping their customers. And there was less competition so there was room for the cycle of add-error-learn-buildBetter-add.
Not sure the OP played any MMOs before 2004, as that is the year he states his obsession starts with them.
If so, he doesn't know what he missed out on, and might explain why he believes only big budget tiitles can succeed, while I've found the opposite to be mostly true.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
how should i break it to you guys...If a AAA company with 300 million dollars and top notch teams can not make good MMO , what you expect from few part time students on a shoestring budget ?
2 things.
1 - I firmly believe most creative minds do not have their pockets filled with money, and that is what it will take to make a good mmorpg. A collection of creative minds (where companies are failing at this which I believe is caused by greed, control, lack of professionalism, and rushed behavior).
2- Do you believe some of the mmorpg's you have played before 2004 offered a better gameplay experience than the ones that do now? My answer is yes. There are a few collection of reasons. Communities weren't nearly as toxic or mouth foamy. Companies were small and cared about producing a good working product and keeping their customers. And there was less competition so there was room for the cycle of add-error-learn-buildBetter-add.
I dont like to boast but i am actually working in game industry and have some hands on knowledge of what are the costs , how many people you need to make something , and when experience or fresh originality is needed. I know most people here are just gamers that look at it from side and do not know practically how much work or what is needed for game production.
1 - I firmly believe most creative minds do not have their pockets filled with money, and that is what it will take to make a good mmorpg. A collection of creative minds (where companies are failing at this which I believe is caused by greed, control, lack of professionalism, and rushed behavior).
There are dreams and there is reality. And reality is that games cost money to make. Need man power and often need experienced people in order not to repeat mistakes that can create huge delays.
I strongly suggest to watch this to gain understanding how and why games are expensive to produce
2- Do you believe some of the mmorpg's you have played before 2004 offered a better gameplay experience than the ones that do now? My answer is yes. There are a few collection of reasons. Communities weren't nearly as toxic or mouth foamy. Companies were small and cared about producing a good working product and keeping their customers. And there was less competition so there was room for the cycle of add-error-learn-buildBetter-add.
I agree. But look at it this way. Did you play Witcher 3, or let say Uncharted 4?
If I would offer you for 60$ Copy of Witcher 3 or Ultima VIII , which one would you choose ?
Its 2016 , you can not sell game that has quality and content from 1999. People are shallow, and once the bar is raised it does not go down. And I bet even you would take that Witcher 3 and look at me strange for asking 60$ for Ultima VIII
And..here is the pickle - you and your forum palls naively dont understand.
Game of Ultima VIII quality can be developed by 3-4 people , game of Witcher 3 quality need hundreds of people and huge budgets.
So yes. If we are expecting that next MMO will come from basement indie studio, it will have content and quality of Ultima VIII. The gameplay might be fantastic though.
how should i break it to you guys...If a AAA company with 300 million dollars and top notch teams can not make good MMO , what you expect from few part time students on a shoestring budget ?
2 things.
1 - I firmly believe most creative minds do not have their pockets filled with money, and that is what it will take to make a good mmorpg. A collection of creative minds (where companies are failing at this which I believe is caused by greed, control, lack of professionalism, and rushed behavior).
2- Do you believe some of the mmorpg's you have played before 2004 offered a better gameplay experience than the ones that do now? My answer is yes. There are a few collection of reasons. Communities weren't nearly as toxic or mouth foamy. Companies were small and cared about producing a good working product and keeping their customers. And there was less competition so there was room for the cycle of add-error-learn-buildBetter-add.
So yes. If we are expecting that next MMO will come from basement indie studio, it will have content and quality of Ultima VIII. The gameplay might be fantastic though.
But will that be enough ?
I too have worked in the games industry in the past, but my outlook is much different to yours.
In my experience, it is a very small team that forms the backbone of any game. I'm talking primarily about the principle designers and the engine / gameplay programmers. For example, I worked on a AA racing game (was almost AAA, but not quite) but the core engine only had 2 programmers and there was also the creative lead. Those 3 people alone determined the quality of the gameplay.
Everyone else was essentially creating content. There were large teams of track designers / creators, another team for creating the cars (each car would take roughly 2 months to fully complete), teams for UI, producers, testers etc.
This is why I believe indie teams have the capability to deliver a great MMO: because it only takes a very small team to be able to make outstanding gameplay.
So, we get to your question: will limitations on content get in the way or a great game, or will the gameplay be enough? There are two sides to this - flashy graphics to draw in superficial gamers (as much as I hate it, good graphics sells games) then sheer amount of content to play through.
Developers can't get away from needing good graphics to sell games, so the worlds and player characters are going to have to look good. But, they can get away from the content problem by going sandbox which is what a lot of these indie devs are doing. By going sandbox, you avoid having to hand craft 1000s of extra npcs, scripting loads of fights, writing tons and tons of quest text or recording dialogue. Bioware dumped soooo much money into voice acting and linear themepark content and nowhere near enough money into developing core systems / engines.
So, something like Crowfall - procedurally generated pvp campaigns can easily look good (just need a ton of reusable high-res textures) and the kingdoms are instanced. They don't need to create loads of towns / cities, loads of worlds, npcs etc, thus saving a ton of money. Camelot Unchained? Again, virtually no questing or NPCs in the game, just a massive world (one shot and done, albeit still takes time) and their CUBE system.
My prediction for the next 10 years:
Indies will start providing us with alternative gameplay to standard themepark
One or two indies will make a decent profit compared to dev costs
These indies will inspire large devs to start making MMOs again
10 years time we'll see the first ever AAA Sandbox MMO
This will usher in the 2nd golden age of MMOs (followed by stagnation, decline and rebirth again...)
(in parallel to pc mmos, i also think we'll see console devs enter the mmo space)
In my experience, it is a very small team that forms the backbone of any game. I'm talking primarily about the principle designers and the engine / gameplay programmers. For example, I worked on a AA racing game (was almost AAA, but not quite) but the core engine only had 2 programmers and there was also the creative lead. Those 3 people alone determined the quality of the gameplay.
Everyone else was essentially creating content. There were large teams of track designers / creators, another team for creating the cars (each car would take roughly 2 months to fully complete), teams for UI, producers, testers etc.
This is why I believe indie teams have the capability to deliver a great MMO: because it only takes a very small team to be able to make outstanding gameplay.
Exactly what I was saying. Basically we agree.
This "Indie wonder" will have great gameplay , but either little content or content artificially created by procedural generation ( not best idea judging from NMS )
Well at one time,i witnessed just about everybody flamed the P2w or cash shop game idea but somewhere a certain crowd changed all that. There is a simple catch to it and seems to work.get them in the door with the fake FREE moniker then hope they stick around,find some friends and spend some money.The other part is aged,the very nature of humans to be on top or be competitive was an EASY target for cash shops and p2w. Now because the market is flooded and so much of gaming is simply about money,ALL the genres are in trouble,quality matters a lot less than it did 10 years ago.
just look at ARPG's,they have like 1/10 quality,moba's,again cheap piles of junk,but ever since esport and streaming started to render lots of money,CHEAP crap games have become the norm.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
That is a bit unfair. Firstly, you can fail anything no matter how much money you put into it (want proof? One word: "Waterworld").
I like and still like WaterWorld. From wiki "The film also was unable to recoup its massive budget at the box office; however, the film did later become profitable due to video and other post-cinema sales."
So it's doesn't validate your point. I agree with your point. I just wanted to defend WaterWorld cause people like to pick on it when I remember more about it then most movies I have seen.
Sorry for going off topic. Best wishes in the endless debate about the state of MMO's.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the best marketing tactic for MMO was combination of free to play+buy to play + pay to win + monthly subs + moba lobby game (spvp, maxed level, gear matchmaking systems)
the game is free, but free player has lower max level caps, example 50, cant wear higher level items. free player have access everywhere. basically their existence is to be cannon fodder (in wvw/pve) to the op pay to win/sub players. and of course to populate the game. however do not cry, we have spvp so competitive player can show off skills there!
player who bought the game unlocked the full max level, example level 60 and all the items.
pay to win player get access to top tier items. example legendary weapon, armor, items.
player who pay monthly subs for the game had the chance to get random top tier item as a free gift every month, exp boost on level, crafting.
Its actually alot cheaper to make a sandbox mmo than themeparks so I dont see how its going to cost alot of money for developers to change their style of making mmos. A smaller indie team has more chance of success of making a great game, not even looking for millions of players to play it, just a consistent couple hundred thousand players will be enough. I think its sad that alot of devs spend loads of money to make a WoW clone only for it flop and people go back to WoW. Devs are afraid to take risks they just want to use a known formula that works. But to decline to spend less which is actually a less of a risk is like declining to spend 1 dollar a year on a lottery ticket.
But at the same time people need to stop being so pessimistic about the current generation of mmos and enjoy it for what it is. I'm playing WoW right now and its really fun for what it is. But I honestly feel bad for people who started with themeparks and never played any other type of mmo to know that alternatives exist.
You mentioned everyone has a high demand for high-quality graphics. While it is true there is a very large audience where graphics is the #1 thing they look for in a game, I am part of a niche crowd (there are plenty of others) where graphics is the last thing we look for in our priority list. I'm not playing a game to watch a movie, I'm playing a game to play the game. That is why I am still playing nes-ps1 games, because they work, have better system designs, have higher quality story and character background/buildups, and offer an overall better gameplay experience in general.
I am also part of that niche crowd but I only have that mindset with mmos, graphics can hinder a gameplay experience by not being able to handle massive crowds of people in different cities etc. While GW2 looked beautiful when I played it, its not exactly what I'm looking for and its the last thing I would look for.
The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
The world doesnt spin around you @ OP. MMORPGs are dead FOR YOU. There's such a huge number of active MMORPG players that your mind can't even comprehend it.
The genre is clearly in a massive decline. Of that there can be no doubt. We have an ever growing population who are increasingly into video games with greater availability of computers / internet access. If anything this should be the renaissance of the mmorpg genre. Yet here we are... with the top 7 most anticipated games being done by indie studios because established game publishers with their massive budgets aren't going anywhere near mmorpgs.
I've posted on this site for at least 12+ years following countless titles and the list of anticipated games have never been so depressing. Fans are hoping against hope that these upcoming titles will deliver but history shows a long list of similar titles that promised the same but never delivered. It's wishful thinking to hope that smaller teams who often have less talent with less money can somehow make a superior product than ones that have come and gone.
I have to imagine that this trend will reverse itself. It has to. We are becoming an ever increasingly digital society and these virtual worlds undoubtedly have appeal. However there is nothing in sight to suggest that.
However those Asian mmorpgs are really looking good these days!
Its actually alot cheaper to make a sandbox mmo than themeparks so I dont see how its going to cost alot of money for developers to change their style of making mmos. A smaller indie team has more chance of success of making a great game, not even looking for millions of players to play it, just a consistent couple hundred thousand players will be enough. I think its sad that alot of devs spend loads of money to make a WoW clone only for it flop and people go back to WoW. Devs are afraid to take risks they just want to use a known formula that works. But to decline to spend less which is actually a less of a risk is like declining to spend 1 dollar a year on a lottery ticket.
But at the same time people need to stop being so pessimistic about the current generation of mmos and enjoy it for what it is. I'm playing WoW right now and its really fun for what it is. But I honestly feel bad for people who started with themeparks and never played any other type of mmo to know that alternatives exist.
You mentioned everyone has a high demand for high-quality graphics. While it is true there is a very large audience where graphics is the #1 thing they look for in a game, I am part of a niche crowd (there are plenty of others) where graphics is the last thing we look for in our priority list. I'm not playing a game to watch a movie, I'm playing a game to play the game. That is why I am still playing nes-ps1 games, because they work, have better system designs, have higher quality story and character background/buildups, and offer an overall better gameplay experience in general.
I am also part of that niche crowd but I only have that mindset with mmos, graphics can hinder a gameplay experience by not being able to handle massive crowds of people in different cities etc. While GW2 looked beautiful when I played it, its not exactly what I'm looking for and its the last thing I would look for.
lets not talk about cost for now...
what important is to create a rpg game, it can be single player, online server can be set up later
The problem with the mmogenre is that every new mmorpg tries to copy world of warcrafts experence, which ends up making the game feel like you've played it before many times. I haven't seen many mmo's that try to do something diffrent. MMO's have honestly gone down the crapper since wow released, and my hatred for wow is not because wow itself is a bad game, but because of how it transformed the mmorpg genre into the cesspool of garbage it currently is. I don't see it changing till wow closes sadly.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Solving the problems of MMOs will not be fixed by merely removing cash shops. The microtransaction payment models are there for a reason - these games were failing as b2p and p2p games.
When people start making good mmorpgs again, they won't have to resort to cash shops to thrive.
Its actually alot cheaper to make a sandbox mmo than themeparks so I dont see how its going to cost alot of money for developers to change their style of making mmos. A smaller indie team has more chance of success of making a great game, not even looking for millions of players to play it, just a consistent couple hundred thousand players will be enough. I think its sad that alot of devs spend loads of money to make a WoW clone only for it flop and people go back to WoW. Devs are afraid to take risks they just want to use a known formula that works. But to decline to spend less which is actually a less of a risk is like declining to spend 1 dollar a year on a lottery ticket.
But at the same time people need to stop being so pessimistic about the current generation of mmos and enjoy it for what it is. I'm playing WoW right now and its really fun for what it is. But I honestly feel bad for people who started with themeparks and never played any other type of mmo to know that alternatives exist.
You mentioned everyone has a high demand for high-quality graphics. While it is true there is a very large audience where graphics is the #1 thing they look for in a game, I am part of a niche crowd (there are plenty of others) where graphics is the last thing we look for in our priority list. I'm not playing a game to watch a movie, I'm playing a game to play the game. That is why I am still playing nes-ps1 games, because they work, have better system designs, have higher quality story and character background/buildups, and offer an overall better gameplay experience in general.
I am also part of that niche crowd but I only have that mindset with mmos, graphics can hinder a gameplay experience by not being able to handle massive crowds of people in different cities etc. While GW2 looked beautiful when I played it, its not exactly what I'm looking for and its the last thing I would look for.
lets not talk about cost for now...
what important is to create a rpg game, it can be single player, online server can be set up later
Personally, I have found the best mmorpg experiences I have had were ones that were open world community driven (lineage 2 and ragnarok online).
The worst mmorpg experiences I have had were ones where every single player is forced to play a linear style single player rpg as an mmorpg (FFIVX, BDO, TERA, WOW, ect...)
The best rpg experiences I have had were ones where you as the player were immersed in the story and other characters (and in my opinion an mmorpg would absolutely kill this experience).
have u play ragnarok online offline mode?
single player doesnt mean u have to do single player story driven quest. it can be sandbox as well.
the point is, online server can be set up, if we have the game. develop the game 1st, indie dev can use low cost to develop the world, character, gameplay
Typical, colossal, theme park MMORPGs are dying, for sure. But as for the rest of gaming? Pretty much in all genres of the industry, an (or several) MMO spin-off has sprouted from even the most unlikely of franchises. Furthermore most games nowadays incorporate multiple features or elements that used to be commonly associated with MMORPGs.
They are dying? Hate to see what it is like when they were living.
This topic of claiming "MMOs are dying" is as ridiculous as the typical "X" game is the new WoW killer".
Don't worry you won't be see too many of the 'X game is the new WoW killer' threads anymore, you actually have to have a new MMORPG release to get one of those.
No surprise less big budget MMORPGs get made. MMORPGs make less per customer than they used to but expectations for scope and quality keep rising. The player numbers boom seems to be over, so there is not much there to offset the much lower ARPUs. (maybe console MMORPGs will help a bit in this regard, but then again, console oriented MMORPGs are not exactly what most people here are asking for) In the long run, we get what we pay for.
I don't know/care if the genre is dead or alive. All I can say is I don't enjoy the newer games at all. If you ask me MMOs started going down the drain when cash shops were introduced and shit really hit the fan with the free to play abomination. The way I see it MMOs have evolved the same way consumer technology has. First machines were made to last a life time , then competition/greed/reality kicked in and their life span was intentionally reduced so the consumer would have to buy them more frequently.
Comments
look at bdo. player want to stay competitive with less grind
the only solution is spvp map like gw2.
half mmo half moba
If so, he doesn't know what he missed out on, and might explain why he believes only big budget tiitles can succeed, while I've found the opposite to be mostly true.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I dont like to boast but i am actually working in game industry and have some hands on knowledge of what are the costs , how many people you need to make something , and when experience or fresh originality is needed. I know most people here are just gamers that look at it from side and do not know practically how much work or what is needed for game production.
1 - I firmly believe most creative minds do not have their pockets filled with money, and that is what it will take to make a good mmorpg. A collection of creative minds (where companies are failing at this which I believe is caused by greed, control, lack of professionalism, and rushed behavior).
There are dreams and there is reality. And reality is that games cost money to make. Need man power and often need experienced people in order not to repeat mistakes that can create huge delays.
I strongly suggest to watch this to gain understanding how and why games are expensive to produce
2- Do you believe some of the mmorpg's you have played before 2004 offered a better gameplay experience than the ones that do now? My answer is yes. There are a few collection of reasons. Communities weren't nearly as toxic or mouth foamy. Companies were small and cared about producing a good working product and keeping their customers. And there was less competition so there was room for the cycle of add-error-learn-buildBetter-add.
I agree. But look at it this way.
Did you play Witcher 3, or let say Uncharted 4?
If I would offer you for 60$ Copy of Witcher 3 or Ultima VIII , which one would you choose ?
Its 2016 , you can not sell game that has quality and content from 1999. People are shallow, and once the bar is raised it does not go down. And I bet even you would take that Witcher 3 and look at me strange for asking 60$ for Ultima VIII
And..here is the pickle - you and your forum palls naively dont understand.
Game of Ultima VIII quality can be developed by 3-4 people , game of Witcher 3 quality need hundreds of people and huge budgets.
So yes. If we are expecting that next MMO will come from basement indie studio, it will have content and quality of Ultima VIII. The gameplay might be fantastic though.
But will that be enough ?
In my experience, it is a very small team that forms the backbone of any game. I'm talking primarily about the principle designers and the engine / gameplay programmers. For example, I worked on a AA racing game (was almost AAA, but not quite) but the core engine only had 2 programmers and there was also the creative lead. Those 3 people alone determined the quality of the gameplay.
Everyone else was essentially creating content. There were large teams of track designers / creators, another team for creating the cars (each car would take roughly 2 months to fully complete), teams for UI, producers, testers etc.
This is why I believe indie teams have the capability to deliver a great MMO: because it only takes a very small team to be able to make outstanding gameplay.
So, we get to your question: will limitations on content get in the way or a great game, or will the gameplay be enough? There are two sides to this - flashy graphics to draw in superficial gamers (as much as I hate it, good graphics sells games) then sheer amount of content to play through.
Developers can't get away from needing good graphics to sell games, so the worlds and player characters are going to have to look good. But, they can get away from the content problem by going sandbox which is what a lot of these indie devs are doing. By going sandbox, you avoid having to hand craft 1000s of extra npcs, scripting loads of fights, writing tons and tons of quest text or recording dialogue. Bioware dumped soooo much money into voice acting and linear themepark content and nowhere near enough money into developing core systems / engines.
So, something like Crowfall - procedurally generated pvp campaigns can easily look good (just need a ton of reusable high-res textures) and the kingdoms are instanced. They don't need to create loads of towns / cities, loads of worlds, npcs etc, thus saving a ton of money. Camelot Unchained? Again, virtually no questing or NPCs in the game, just a massive world (one shot and done, albeit still takes time) and their CUBE system.
My prediction for the next 10 years:
This "Indie wonder" will have great gameplay , but either little content or content artificially created by procedural generation ( not best idea judging from NMS )
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
There is a simple catch to it and seems to work.get them in the door with the fake FREE moniker then hope they stick around,find some friends and spend some money.The other part is aged,the very nature of humans to be on top or be competitive was an EASY target for cash shops and p2w.
Now because the market is flooded and so much of gaming is simply about money,ALL the genres are in trouble,quality matters a lot less than it did 10 years ago.
just look at ARPG's,they have like 1/10 quality,moba's,again cheap piles of junk,but ever since esport and streaming started to render lots of money,CHEAP crap games have become the norm.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
So it's doesn't validate your point. I agree with your point. I just wanted to defend WaterWorld cause people like to pick on it when I remember more about it then most movies I have seen.
Sorry for going off topic. Best wishes in the endless debate about the state of MMO's.
Look for example at Project Gorgon - Indie game made by two highly talented industry veterans.
Fantastic game , real old school MMO with modern sensitivities. Loved by community , played , collected kickstarter money....
Is this not by definition a "Indie MMO" wonder ?
This game is out, and its great - a perfect example of what 2 passionate people can make today.
That - look at it is your MMO saviour - that is the quality you can expect.
Now compare this to quality of games expected in 2016
Notice the difference ?
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I suspect I'm not alone, great graphics might be required by the masses, but they wouldn't enjoy the style of MMORPG I'm interested in.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
the game is free, but free player has lower max level caps, example 50, cant wear higher level items. free player have access everywhere. basically their existence is to be cannon fodder (in wvw/pve) to the op pay to win/sub players. and of course to populate the game. however do not cry, we have spvp so competitive player can show off skills there!
player who bought the game unlocked the full max level, example level 60 and all the items.
pay to win player get access to top tier items. example legendary weapon, armor, items.
player who pay monthly subs for the game had the chance to get random top tier item as a free gift every month, exp boost on level, crafting.
no trading between players to prevent gold seller
But at the same time people need to stop being so pessimistic about the current generation of mmos and enjoy it for what it is. I'm playing WoW right now and its really fun for what it is. But I honestly feel bad for people who started with themeparks and never played any other type of mmo to know that alternatives exist.
I am also part of that niche crowd but I only have that mindset with mmos, graphics can hinder a gameplay experience by not being able to handle massive crowds of people in different cities etc. While GW2 looked beautiful when I played it, its not exactly what I'm looking for and its the last thing I would look for.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
I've posted on this site for at least 12+ years following countless titles and the list of anticipated games have never been so depressing. Fans are hoping against hope that these upcoming titles will deliver but history shows a long list of similar titles that promised the same but never delivered. It's wishful thinking to hope that smaller teams who often have less talent with less money can somehow make a superior product than ones that have come and gone.
I have to imagine that this trend will reverse itself. It has to. We are becoming an ever increasingly digital society and these virtual worlds undoubtedly have appeal. However there is nothing in sight to suggest that.
However those Asian mmorpgs are really looking good these days!
what important is to create a rpg game, it can be single player, online server can be set up later
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
When people start making good mmorpgs again, they won't have to resort to cash shops to thrive.
single player doesnt mean u have to do single player story driven quest. it can be sandbox as well.
the point is, online server can be set up, if we have the game. develop the game 1st, indie dev can use low cost to develop the world, character, gameplay
MMORPGs make less per customer than they used to but expectations for scope and quality keep rising.
The player numbers boom seems to be over, so there is not much there to offset the much lower ARPUs. (maybe console MMORPGs will help a bit in this regard, but then again, console oriented MMORPGs are not exactly what most people here are asking for)
In the long run, we get what we pay for.
If you ask me MMOs started going down the drain when cash shops were introduced and shit really hit the fan with the free to play abomination.
The way I see it MMOs have evolved the same way consumer technology has. First machines were made to last a life time , then competition/greed/reality kicked in and their life span was intentionally reduced so the consumer would have to buy them more frequently.