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Thank you MMO for dying

LobotomistLobotomist Member RarePosts: 5,818
Since 2004 i was completely obsessed by MMOs. I played all of them. Followed all of them. Posted thousands of posts on this site.
MMOs were my life. I could not play almost any other game if it was not MMO...it just was not doing it for me.

And than that thing happened - thing that is widely discussed on this site ( so i will not go into it now ) - MMOs started dying.

Last subscription MMO i bought on release was WAR. Played it for few months and than it died.

I moved to F2P and B2P MMOs. Last one i bought was ESO, probably last "decent" MMO that will be published in this age...


And now for years there are no MMOs worth playing. And few semi Indie MMOs that are being made...how should i break it to you guys...If a AAA company with 300 million dollars and top notch teams can not make good MMO , what you expect from few part time students on a shoestring budget ? I tell you what - Not next WOW or EQ. I really hate to say that , but thats it for this genre ...

Only game that has some potential is perhaps Crowfall , but its not exactly a mmo. And perhaps for the best.


Alas, to the point.

Purging the system from MMO. Simply by not having a MMO to play for year have done wonders to me. I dont think I could again play a game that requires you to waste time on mindnumbing grind that is perhaps worse than work. And I even figured that my "cant play games if its not MMO" is due that perhaps games less interest me now. I finally have time for other things now ! 

I am free !


So enough of doom and gloom.

MMOs are dead and left to the times when we thought wasting life time on grinding was a good idea :D






«1345

Comments

  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
    edited August 2016
    MMO's are not dead, they are just transforming, evolving/devolving...OP, for me it's WOW: Legion now. If that wasn't available I would've been hopping between CS 1.6 warcraft mod and Path of Exile until another great MMO arrives, hopefully Star Citizen or something else.

    I always am gaming because my excessive free time has to be spent somewhere when I consume the other entertainment options. If you haven't bought WOW: Legion yet this is why you should...

    #1 Some of the best competitive 3v3 arena, where you also get to socialize with others to chase that glory, those glad seasonal titles and gain some friends and respect in the process.

    #2 Join a guild and do dungeons and raids with for rare, epic mounts beside the gear and guild progression on your server.

    I re-subbed to Legion today and I'm preparing right now, leveling characters, warming up, and so forth. Legion comes in two weeks and I want to be fully ready for it.
    Post edited by Kopogero on

    image

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    While i am more than a little 'dischuffed' with the management of BDO currently, i am far from morose about the state of the MMO genre.
    MMO's that i am involved in, while not new, are fun to play and the games communities as ever represent the best parts of those games.
    If that ever changes, then thats when i will have either finally outgrown MMO's or the genre truly has died, at this late date the former is unlikely, and the latter, i really hope never happens, at least not until after i am long gone! B)
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    I know what you mean.  I definitely have a lot more free time when I'm not playing an MMORPG.

    Real life is overrated though- I'd rather be playing a good MMORPG.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,962
    edited August 2016
    Since 2004 i was completely obsessed by MMOs. I played all of them. Followed all of them. Posted thousands of posts on this site.
    MMOs were my life. I could not play almost any other game if it was not MMO...it just was not doing it for me.

    And than that thing happened - thing that is widely discussed on this site ( so i will not go into it now ) - MMOs started dying.

    Last subscription MMO i bought on release was WAR. Played it for few months and than it died.

    I moved to F2P and B2P MMOs. Last one i bought was ESO, probably last "decent" MMO that will be published in this age...


    And now for years there are no MMOs worth playing. And few semi Indie MMOs that are being made...how should i break it to you guys...If a AAA company with 300 million dollars and top notch teams can not make good MMO , what you expect from few part time students on a shoestring budget ? I tell you what - Not next WOW or EQ. I really hate to say that , but thats it for this genre ...

    Only game that has some potential is perhaps Crowfall , but its not exactly a mmo. And perhaps for the best.


    Alas, to the point.

    Purging the system from MMO. Simply by not having a MMO to play for year have done wonders to me. I dont think I could again play a game that requires you to waste time on mindnumbing grind that is perhaps worse than work. And I even figured that my "cant play games if its not MMO" is due that perhaps games less interest me now. I finally have time for other things now ! 

    I am free !


    So enough of doom and gloom.

    MMOs are dead and left to the times when we thought wasting life time on grinding was a good idea :D




    You are still following MMOs and posting here about MMOs on these forums. 

    You most definitely are "not" free.

    Tell you what, delete your account, never come back, maybe then we'll believe you.

    Otherwise you are just 12 stepping it with the rest of the addicts. ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Nicco77Nicco77 Member UncommonPosts: 145
    Since 2004 i was completely obsessed by MMOs. I played all of them. Followed all of them. Posted thousands of posts on this site.
    MMOs were my life. I could not play almost any other game if it was not MMO...it just was not doing it for me.

    And than that thing happened - thing that is widely discussed on this site ( so i will not go into it now ) - MMOs started dying.

    Last subscription MMO i bought on release was WAR. Played it for few months and than it died.

    I moved to F2P and B2P MMOs. Last one i bought was ESO, probably last "decent" MMO that will be published in this age...


    And now for years there are no MMOs worth playing. And few semi Indie MMOs that are being made...how should i break it to you guys...If a AAA company with 300 million dollars and top notch teams can not make good MMO , what you expect from few part time students on a shoestring budget ? I tell you what - Not next WOW or EQ. I really hate to say that , but thats it for this genre ...

    Only game that has some potential is perhaps Crowfall , but its not exactly a mmo. And perhaps for the best.


    Alas, to the point.

    Purging the system from MMO. Simply by not having a MMO to play for year have done wonders to me. I dont think I could again play a game that requires you to waste time on mindnumbing grind that is perhaps worse than work. And I even figured that my "cant play games if its not MMO" is due that perhaps games less interest me now. I finally have time for other things now ! 

    I am free !


    So enough of doom and gloom.

    MMOs are dead and left to the times when we thought wasting life time on grinding was a good idea :D




    Could'nt agree more,thanks to the MOBA first and to the team FPS later the MMORPG genre collapsed and died,ESO is'nt a bad game but also a good one it's just another forgettable esperience like Guild"Farmville"Wars 2.
    Thanks to this I'm also re discovering the pleasure to play off line single player games just for fun and not for chasing numbers and items online.
    I don't really think that another good mmorpg will ever see the light,too much crowdfunding around and big companies now discovered that they can just throw an half arena game where people can endlessly and cluelessly fight each other and make lot of money.
  • GainsNGamesGainsNGames Member UncommonPosts: 107
    I can't believe MMO died. I was just playing an MMO yesterday. 

    When  and where are funeral services being held OP? I'd like to pay my respects. 
  • KouDyKouDy Member UncommonPosts: 50
    I know what do you mean. When you stop any MMO suddenly you have so much free time. Yet we keep coming back in the search of "next big thing". BDO was that thing for me. Game is so good but company behind it... Better to not to open that i'd say.
    But when you find good community even average games are enjoyable. For me that is why i keep coming back and probably will keep coming back.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    ...
    And now for years there are no MMOs worth playing. And few semi Indie MMOs that are being made...how should i break it to you guys...If a AAA company with 300 million dollars and top notch teams can not make good MMO , what you expect from few part time students on a shoestring budget ? I tell you what - Not next WOW or EQ. I really hate to say that , but thats it for this genre ...
    ....
    That is a bit unfair. Firstly, you can fail anything no matter how much money you put into it (want proof? One word: "Waterworld").
    And can you make a fun low budget online game? Guildwars did pretty well for itself and it had a shoestring budget. Heck, Minecraft was even way cheaper, it isn't a MMO but with a good enough idea and gamedesign you can make a good game.

    Also, several of the people who are making crowdfunded MMOs at the moment are not part time students but have actually made good MMOs in the past. Like Garrion, MacQuiad & Jacobs.

    All that is certainly not any kind of guarantees for anything but it is too early to loose faith totally and declaring the genre dead.

    Also, Japan, China and south Korea are still making AAA MMOs, there is the possibility that one of them actually will be good (not something I hold my breath waiting for but the possibility always exist. particularly Japan have actually made a few good games in the past).

    I agree that things look a bit bleak at the moment but other genres have been declared dead before only to rise again (4x games are a good example, AoW3 is a great game and CIV VI looks promising). The genre just need a single good game to reboot.
  • LobotomistLobotomist Member RarePosts: 5,818
    edited August 2016
    Loke666 said:
    ...
    And now for years there are no MMOs worth playing. And few semi Indie MMOs that are being made...how should i break it to you guys...If a AAA company with 300 million dollars and top notch teams can not make good MMO , what you expect from few part time students on a shoestring budget ? I tell you what - Not next WOW or EQ. I really hate to say that , but thats it for this genre ...
    ....
    That is a bit unfair. Firstly, you can fail anything no matter how much money you put into it (want proof? One word: "Waterworld").
    And can you make a fun low budget online game? Guildwars did pretty well for itself and it had a shoestring budget. Heck, Minecraft was even way cheaper, it isn't a MMO but with a good enough idea and gamedesign you can make a good game.

    As Minecraft - You can do Indie type of games that are great on shoestring budget. But you can not make next WOW or next EQ2 or next LOTRO. It is impossible because content costs money and manpower (with experience). So yes we can get new Indie game with great idea, procedural generated content (cause they have no money to create it). That is pure down to earth - as it is, fact. As 5 people in the garage can not make Guardians Of Galaxy film. So 5 people in the garage can not make another WOW. 
    It is not possible.

    And as for Ultima and other old MMOs. Yes they were created with small teams and with low budget. But again, a pixel graphic game that fits on 700mb disc has far less requirements than a game that needs 40giga on HD.

    Face it. All we can get is a Indie wonder. That will either be very small (in scope) or be made with procedural generation.

    Also, several of the people who are making crowdfunded MMOs at the moment are not part time students but have actually made good MMOs in the past. Like Garrion, MacQuiad & Jacobs.

    I know. But they are just fronts. They are not doing code, or art. No mater how experienced is the boss. The flesh and bones of company are workers - and they are just rookies.

    All that is certainly not any kind of guarantees for anything but it is too early to loose faith totally and declaring the genre dead.

    Also, Japan, China and south Korea are still making AAA MMOs, there is the possibility that one of them actually will be good (not something I hold my breath waiting for but the possibility always exist. particularly Japan have actually made a few good games in the past).

    One of the reason I gave up on the genre is recycled abominations pumped by China, Japan and Korea.
    I even think we should no call it MMO but give it a new name... ASMMO or something. Its like completely different genre. And certainly i realized not appealing to me

    I agree that things look a bit bleak at the moment but other genres have been declared dead before only to rise again (4x games are a good example, AoW3 is a great game and CIV VI looks promising). The genre just need a single good game to reboot.

    True. But it took 10+ years for them to suddenly rise back from the ashes



  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413
    Kopogero said:
    MMO's are not dead, they are just transforming, evolving/devolving...OP, for me it's WOW: Legion now. If that wasn't available it would've been hopping between CS 1.6 warcraft mod and Path of Exile until another great MMO arrives, hopefully Star Citizen or something else.

    I always am gaming because my excessive free time has to be spent somewhere when I consume the other entertainment options. If you haven't bought WOW: Legion yet, this is why you should...

    #1 Some of the best competitive 3v3 arena, where you also get to socialize with others to chase that glory, those glad seasonal titles and gain some friends and respect in the process.

    #2 Join a guild and do dungeons and raids with for rare, epic mounts beside the gear and guild progression on your server.

    I re-subbed to Legion today and I'm preparing right now, leveling characters, warming up, and so forth. Legion comes in two weeks and I want to be fully ready for it.
    You're not dead, you're just transforming, evolving, into a rotting carcas that will feed maggots, and fertilize the earth.  But don't worry, you're just an "evolution" of yourself.  You're not actually dead.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,176
    The amount of time you have free can certainly be great, as long as you have stuff to fill it. 

    When I first "quit" MMOs (I consider it a break whilst I wait for a good one), I struggled to fill the time initially. I went from gaming 5 nights a week, 3-4 hours per session, to nothing. After the first week, I was bored out of my mind. I couldn't get into single player games, TV sucks....I ended up doing productive things like cleaning the house, spending more time on cooking etc just to pass the time. But, I was bored. 


    Took me quite a while to start filling that void with things I actually wanted to do, but then it did feel good. Starting a new sport, joining a gym, being more social etc. 3 years later I'm busy most evenings and when I'm not, I appreciate having a night off to do nothing. 


    Still, I do miss having a good MMO to play. Whilst going out drinking with friends is better than raiding and pvp, can't do it 5 nights a week and I still miss that feeling of community. 
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    edited August 2016
    ..MMO was a good friend! always there for me.. any details on how my friend mmo passed away? has family been notified or did the news break here first? 

    Here's the thing..we need to get rid of the 2001-2010 Notion of what a MMO is. The genre cannot and WILL NOT move fwd if people don't let it grow. MMO is not the same as it was 10-15 years ago. It is something else.. what that is, we are in the middle of figuring out, but give it time.

    Look at games like Destiny, The Division, ESO, Minecraft, Hell even No Man's Sky and Pokemon Go, for ideas on where it could go next. As I said.. give it time. It's not there yet but it will be.

    Dead? No.. Evolving into something unrecognizable to old timers? Yes. Certainly. 
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

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    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member RarePosts: 5,818
    The amount of time you have free can certainly be great, as long as you have stuff to fill it. 

    Many things, not least the ones you mentioned. 

    And yes, I miss the good times too. But I am also glad its over



  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    As Minecraft - You can do Indie type of games that are great on shoestring budget. But you can not make next WOW or next EQ2 or next LOTRO. It is impossible because content costs money and manpower (with experience). So yes we can get new Indie game with great idea, procedural generated content (cause they have no money to create it). That is pure down to earth - as it is, fact. As 5 people in the garage can not make Guardians Of Galaxy film. So 5 people in the garage can not make another WOW. 
    It is not possible.

    And as for Ultima and other old MMOs. Yes they were created with small teams and with low budget. But again, a pixel graphic game that fits on 700mb disc has far less requirements than a game that needs 40giga on HD.

    Face it. All we can get is a Indie wonder. That will either be very small (in scope) or be made with procedural generation.

    I know. But they are just fronts. They are not doing code, or art. No mater how experienced is the boss. The flesh and bones of company are workers - and they are just rookies.

    One of the reason I gave up on the genre is recycled abominations pumped by China, Japan and Korea.
    I even think we should no call it MMO but give it a new name... ASMMO or something. Its like completely different genre. And certainly i realized not appealing to me

    True. But it took 10+ years for them to suddenly rise back from the ashes
    5 people did make Guildwars, 3 guys made all the quests and the engine for that matter. Yeah, Guildwars were not Wow but it did sell over 8 million copies and was a great game. Of course they did have Jeff Strain, former lead designer and star coder from Blizzard  (Wow was originally his idea as well) so they were not just any people but talent can go a long way.
    Not sure if his MMO  (Class 4) is cancelled or not, it actually had AAA funding (by Microsoft) but I havn't hear anything about it for almsot 2 years so it is probably gone, Undead labs also did some mobile games and earned loads of cash on them... 

    As for indie wonders, Eve online was a small indie wonder that actually grew pretty large with time.

    I don't think the genre will see a new Wow, at least not for a long time but Wow is the exception with MMOs, no one been close since in number of players. The problem is that it's success baited the publishers to try to beat it at it's own game and that just didn't work out.

    We don't need a new Wow, we need a few good medium sized games that differs from eachother. And while I doubt any of the indie games will jump to a million players after a month they can actually grow into that provided they are fun to play.

    Wow took a small genre and made it mainstream but the candle burnt to strong, having a single game that rules the market is bad.

    MMORPGs will rise again, I doubt doubt that for a second. It might very well take 10 years though but don't declare it dead just yet. And to be fair are MMOs doing better then ever, the problem for us is that it is Asia where most the players and games come from now and we have different taste in games in the west.

    Personally, I been playing since M59 and I think the genre been pretty bad the last 10 years with very few exceptions. I don't mind going back to cheaper games, the majority of my favorite games were made on a limited budget but with great ideas. Companies like EA and Activision are just interested in copying eachothers any ways and that is what got us where we are now.
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,207
    I think what you're saying isn't that MMOs are dead, but that they haven't been reborn.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,437
    Another thread with polite and focused opinions.

    The genre is not dying just because you are bored. The world spins without you. There are great game all around, just get down that nostalgic train and open your eyes.

    The "golden days" most of rants like yours refers to had the same people with the same behavior posting the same "games are dead" on their official forums. 
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

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  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,826
    MMOs are not dying. WOW inflated the market. The MMO was a small niche in the landscape of gaming. Then in 2004 it exploded. Now things are settled down again and the Indie developers can shine once more.
    The Indie developers are who created this genre to begin with. It is safely in their hands again.
    With game engines and software cheaper than ever or even free now, the ability for a talented,passionate group to put together an MMO for all player types is there. We see plenty of examples of games in various forms of development that showcase this. The genre was in a lull perhaps but far from dead.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318
    If the shoestring budget can afford to go out every weekend to get drunk, or to movies or to eat out, it can afford $15 for an MMO. 
  • SulaaSulaa Member UncommonPosts: 1,329
    Grats OP!

    Death of games that revolve around mindless repeat of poor gameplay like kill scriptless easy, dumb mobs or go-click an texture to gather resources X thousands is a GOOD thing.

    Time to face it folks - 95% of gameplay in MMORPGs were/is very poor, if they can be even call gameplay in first place.


  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    MMOs are not dying. WOW inflated the market. The MMO was a small niche in the landscape of gaming. Then in 2004 it exploded. Now things are settled down again and the Indie developers can shine once more.
    The Indie developers are who created this genre to begin with. It is safely in their hands again.
    With game engines and software cheaper than ever or even free now, the ability for a talented,passionate group to put together an MMO for all player types is there. We see plenty of examples of games in various forms of development that showcase this. The genre was in a lull perhaps but far from dead.
    To be fair were it already back in '99 when Verant/SOE released EQ that the indie part started to be less important for the genre. But it wasn't until Wow released that the really huge publishers (again, besides Sony) noticed the market.

    I think however a big difference between now and the late 00s is that the people that started to game around year 2000 when they finally got internet and a PC have moved on to mobile platforms now. If you want a new Wow you should look towards games like Pokemon Go!.

    PC games are once again become more of a sub culture even if FPS games, card games and Mobas still are mainstream. And of course MMOs will have to put more focus on the group that actually plays them if they want to be successful. That doesn't mean that MMOs will be just like UO and EQ in the future but neither should they be like Wow if they want to be successful. The time of 15 M players for a single game is long gone in the west though and it is unlikely we will see something like that again.

    If VR reality becomes popular (porn and movies in perfect 3D will be the initial salespoint for mainstream users though) that can change things and get the mainstream players back into the genre again but then perhaps not (and VR could fail as bad as Nvidias 3D vision or the 3D glasses many people have for their TV but never use).
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,972
    Can we please get a "Gloom & Doom" sub-forum so the nonsense stays contained to one area?
  • LobotomistLobotomist Member RarePosts: 5,818
    Loke666 said:
    5 people did make Guildwars, 3 guys made all the quests and the engine for that matter. 
    Even thinking this is beyond insanity.

    I am sorry Loke I respect your opinions. But it seems you dont grasp what effort and work goes into game production, at all.


    It is hard but possible for 3 people to make engine, maybe even quests. Let suppose so.

    So that leaves one guy doing all the concept art , 3d models ,animation , fx , promotional animation , design , website , texturing , topography , cutscenes , rigging. It would only take him 20 years (even for all the rendering if he did every character himself) and they would probably find him dead. Since its thing done by team of at least 10 people ( and that is for crappy looking indie game , not good looking one )

    And than another guy did all the sound, sound effects , music , voice acting, syncing 

    They all pitched in writing what amounts to few books worth of text.

    And yea, the game had no QA or bug testing. No office manager , no support , no business management or accounting.

    And that is bare minimum.

    So please, please check your sources and dont post misinformation's... Its very distracting













  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,867
    Forgrimm said:
    Can we please get a "Gloom & Doom" sub-forum so the nonsense stays contained to one area?
    I have been asking for that, or at least single sticky thread like they have for solo vs. group play and sandpark vs themepark for the past several years.  Maybe MMORPG.com staff feels like the OP and so they welcome all these various doom and gloom threads but do not tolerate those others I listed? /shrug

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    They aren't dead. They've changed. And IMO not for the better, but there are still titles I enjoy playing.
  • LobotomistLobotomist Member RarePosts: 5,818
    edited August 2016
    rodingo said:
    Forgrimm said:
    Can we please get a "Gloom & Doom" sub-forum so the nonsense stays contained to one area?
    I have been asking for that, or at least single sticky thread like they have for solo vs. group play and sandpark vs themepark for the past several years.  Maybe MMORPG.com staff feels like the OP and so they welcome all these various doom and gloom threads but do not tolerate those others I listed? /shrug
    Why you think they started covering non-mmo games ?



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