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Knight's Pledge?

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  • Scott23Scott23 Member UncommonPosts: 293
    The $50 pledge does just sound like a pre-order assuming the box price would be $50.  I don't see any reason to pre-order so early.  Don't listen to me, though :) I don't like betas so it wouldn't interest me with that thrown in either.

    I'll wait for release and evaluate it then.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Dullahan said:
    Kayo83 said:
    So no beta for $50 pledge? Thats.... disappointing.
    That does seem a little strange. It almost sounds like they are just selling you an early copy of the game with no perk other than forum access. I think the amount of time and risk involved in pledging to a game in pre-alpha probably warrants beta.
    Agreed even though the  $50 could start their beta later then the ones pledging more they should at least have some beta time.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Loke666 said:
    Dullahan said:
    Kayo83 said:
    So no beta for $50 pledge? Thats.... disappointing.
    That does seem a little strange. It almost sounds like they are just selling you an early copy of the game with no perk other than forum access. I think the amount of time and risk involved in pledging to a game in pre-alpha probably warrants beta.
    Agreed even though the  $50 could start their beta later then the ones pledging more they should at least have some beta time.
    Ya, maybe Beta 2. $100 tier for Beta 1.


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,061
    Loke666 said:
    Dullahan said:
    Kayo83 said:
    So no beta for $50 pledge? Thats.... disappointing.
    That does seem a little strange. It almost sounds like they are just selling you an early copy of the game with no perk other than forum access. I think the amount of time and risk involved in pledging to a game in pre-alpha probably warrants beta.
    Agreed even though the  $50 could start their beta later then the ones pledging more they should at least have some beta time. 



    With no promises for beta, I will wait for launch. 
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    svann said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Dullahan said:
    Ya, you could but that is $200. Part of the draw of pre-orders or in this case, pledge packages, is offering people progressively more at a bargain on the basis of it being for a limited time and having more associated risk.

    For the same reasons, I think they are missing out on major support by not having a $50 option which is the max most people will spend on a game.

    But someone willing to onlyk spend the same amount as the regular game will simply pickup the game at release.  Unless all they want is beta access. 
    Exactly.  Id pay in advance if I could at least play/test beta.  If not, Ill just wait and see.

    So game = $50.00.   Game + Beta >= $50.00. 
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,061
    waynejr2 said:
    svann said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Dullahan said:
    Ya, you could but that is $200. Part of the draw of pre-orders or in this case, pledge packages, is offering people progressively more at a bargain on the basis of it being for a limited time and having more associated risk.

    For the same reasons, I think they are missing out on major support by not having a $50 option which is the max most people will spend on a game.

    But someone willing to onlyk spend the same amount as the regular game will simply pickup the game at release.  Unless all they want is beta access. 
    Exactly.  Id pay in advance if I could at least play/test beta.  If not, Ill just wait and see.

    So game = $50.00.   Game + Beta >= $50.00. 
    If there is no incentive why am I paying now? 
  • TwoTubesTwoTubes Member UncommonPosts: 281
    With the 50$ pledge you get:
    a single copy of the game at launch, supporter level forum access, the in-game title of Pantheon Explorer, and early name reservation.


  • KilsinKilsin Member RarePosts: 507
    With the 50$ pledge you get:
    a single copy of the game at launch, supporter level forum access, the in-game title of Pantheon Explorer, and early name reservation.


    Correct and just to point out our reasoning behind this decision, the new pledges we replace Alpha with will have Beta so we don't want to take anything away from them plus the Support Access is usually $5 per month without a pledge, the $50 pledge gives you unlimited access without a sub so it still has value on top of name reservation, in-game title and a copy of the game, we contemplated adding beta to it but we think it will devalue the $100 and $150 pledges and anyone who has beta access already, we want to make sure our early adopters (and most loyal supporters) get looked after for sticking with us for so long, they deserve it!

    So we think the $50 option will be great for people who don't care about testing and just want a bare bones copy of the game with a few bonuses and the ability to discuss the game and hang out with our devs and the community on our forums :)

    Community & Web Manager | Visionary Realms, Inc.
    Visit our Development Website. | Facebook | Twitter

  • Scott23Scott23 Member UncommonPosts: 293
    Kilsin said:
    With the 50$ pledge you get:
    a single copy of the game at launch, supporter level forum access, the in-game title of Pantheon Explorer, and early name reservation.


    Correct and just to point out our reasoning behind this decision, the new pledges we replace Alpha with will have Beta so we don't want to take anything away from them plus the Support Access is usually $5 per month without a pledge, the $50 pledge gives you unlimited access without a sub so it still has value on top of name reservation, in-game title and a copy of the game, we contemplated adding beta to it but we think it will devalue the $100 and $150 pledges and anyone who has beta access already, we want to make sure our early adopters (and most loyal supporters) get looked after for sticking with us for so long, they deserve it!

    So we think the $50 option will be great for people who don't care about testing and just want a bare bones copy of the game with a few bonuses and the ability to discuss the game and hang out with our devs and the community on our forums :)

    Sounds reasonable.  I'll wait for the game to release :)
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,061
    edited August 2016
    Kilsin said:
    With the 50$ pledge you get:
    a single copy of the game at launch, supporter level forum access, the in-game title of Pantheon Explorer, and early name reservation.


    Correct and just to point out our reasoning behind this decision, the new pledges we replace Alpha with will have Beta so we don't want to take anything away from them plus the Support Access is usually $5 per month without a pledge, the $50 pledge gives you unlimited access without a sub so it still has value on top of name reservation, in-game title and a copy of the game, we contemplated adding beta to it but we think it will devalue the $100 and $150 pledges and anyone who has beta access already, we want to make sure our early adopters (and most loyal supporters) get looked after for sticking with us for so long, they deserve it!

    So we think the $50 option will be great for people who don't care about testing and just want a bare bones copy of the game with a few bonuses and the ability to discuss the game and hang out with our devs and the community on our forums :)
    What you are asking for is less than what I get for a pre-order of most games now. 3-5 day head starts, name reserve, few digital trinkets that include a mount and often access to some type of beta and some pre-order title. You're not adding value, you're not giving enough. Its ok though, if thats your thinking I can wait and take the low risk path. See you at launch.  
    Post edited by Nanfoodle on
  • Raidan_EQRaidan_EQ Member UncommonPosts: 247

    I can understand VRI's predicament.  They had offered tiers at such a low cost primarily, - on the Kickstarter, beta was offered for $20 - Seeker's Pledge. 

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen?ref=profile_created_last

    But, once they moved to the official site and the pledge tiers were revamped - the Knight's pledge at $100 was the cheapest tier with beta (although it also included alpha).

    So, if they were to offer beta for $50 now, I'm sure there would be a few supporters that would feel cheated and think they overspent for their access; however, I'd argue that the perks for the Knight's pledge that I mentioned above would more than justify the extra $50.

    Also, with the cost of beta entry so low in the beginning, I imagine they already have a decent stack of pledgers that are waiting for entry.

    The other element is that beta is more than likely at least a year or a year and a half away.  End of 2017, early 2018, and if that's the case, and Pantheon continues to rise in popularity, there will eventually be enough beta participants.  And, I'm guessing the Pantheon Devs are taking a calculated risk that there will be enough beta participants at the $100 price-point.  And, if they're correct - they'll have earned an extra $50 per subscriber.

    All that being said, I couldn't care less if someone were to buy in now for $50 when I bought in for more earlier - I'm satisfied with my perks, and I would be excited that more people were subscribed and participating in the official forums and would be granted beta access.

    And, I'm of the belief that one in hand is worth two in the bush.  I think they would have much more success with the $50 and Beta, providing true incentive for early support, but, again, I'm sure they have data that they're analyzing, and perhaps they already believe they'll have more than enough beta subscribers at the $100 price-point.  But, I think if you hooked someone in at $50, that person would be much more likely to spend more at that point versus never bringing in the person at all.

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    Raidan_EQ said:

    I can understand VRI's predicament.  They had offered tiers at such a low cost primarily, - on the Kickstarter, beta was offered for $20 - Seeker's Pledge. 

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen?ref=profile_created_last

    But, once they moved to the official site and the pledge tiers were revamped - the Knight's pledge at $100 was the cheapest tier with beta (although it also included alpha).

    So, if they were to offer beta for $50 now, I'm sure there would be a few supporters that would feel cheated and think they overspent for their access; however, I'd argue that the perks for the Knight's pledge that I mentioned above would more than justify the extra $50.

    Also, with the cost of beta entry so low in the beginning, I imagine they already have a decent stack of pledgers that are waiting for entry.

    The other element is that beta is more than likely at least a year or a year and a half away.  End of 2017, early 2018, and if that's the case, and Pantheon continues to rise in popularity, there will eventually be enough beta participants.  And, I'm guessing the Pantheon Devs are taking a calculated risk that there will be enough beta participants at the $100 price-point.  And, if they're correct - they'll have earned an extra $50 per subscriber.

    All that being said, I couldn't care less if someone were to buy in now for $50 when I bought in for more earlier - I'm satisfied with my perks, and I would be excited that more people were subscribed and participating in the official forums and would be granted beta access.

    And, I'm of the belief that one in hand is worth two in the bush.  I think they would have much more success with the $50 and Beta, providing true incentive for early support, but, again, I'm sure they have data that they're analyzing, and perhaps they already believe they'll have more than enough beta subscribers at the $100 price-point.  But, I think if you hooked someone in at $50, that person would be much more likely to spend more at that point versus never bringing in the person at all.

    This was objective and well thought out.  I like everything you wrote but I respectfully disagree.  This is more than likely VRI hoping to sell the higher tiers.  Especially if they start announcing beta dates.  I imagine they are hoping once the hype starts more people will pass the $50 peon tier and compulsively buy the $100+ tiers.  I think it's a mistake on their end.  
  • Kayo83Kayo83 Member UncommonPosts: 399
    Dullahan said:

    Ya, maybe Beta 2. $100 tier for Beta 1.
    Exactly. I get they need to make changes to their pledges as spots fill up for alpha, but maybe letting the $50 package at least get into the "nearer to release" beta phases would be great. It would (a) make for better stress testing and (b) make the entire package more worth it. Frankly, Ive gotten more for pre-ordering games a month before release.

    I played many beta's over the last decade for months before official release and never actually bought it. Only cost me $5 to preorder.
  • KilsinKilsin Member RarePosts: 507
    You have to remember that we are not selling "early access" like most newer games that give you tons of fluff and in-game items like exp pots, boosters, mounts, currency etc. we are using this money to fund the game and actually need testers to help us test properly when the game gets to that stage, we are about to hit our Alpha cap for testers and need to remove it from the lower tiers, when the cap is reached it will be removed from all tiers.

    Testing is something we take seriously and are managing very carefully, it is not something we just give out or oversell, we have a strict plan to follow as we want to get the most out of our testers when the time comes. 

    The new $50 pledge is for non-testers to still get a copy of the game, an exclusive in-game title for supporters only, name reservation which is important for a lot of community members and unlimited developer forum access at the supporter tier that is usually an ongoing $5 a month to have their say helping to contribute to the games development.

    The community asked us for this new pledge and we listened and delivered. :)

    Community & Web Manager | Visionary Realms, Inc.
    Visit our Development Website. | Facebook | Twitter

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Nanfoodle said:
    waynejr2 said:
    svann said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Dullahan said:
    Ya, you could but that is $200. Part of the draw of pre-orders or in this case, pledge packages, is offering people progressively more at a bargain on the basis of it being for a limited time and having more associated risk.

    For the same reasons, I think they are missing out on major support by not having a $50 option which is the max most people will spend on a game.

    But someone willing to onlyk spend the same amount as the regular game will simply pickup the game at release.  Unless all they want is beta access. 
    Exactly.  Id pay in advance if I could at least play/test beta.  If not, Ill just wait and see.

    So game = $50.00.   Game + Beta >= $50.00. 
    If there is no incentive why am I paying now? 

    desperation?
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,061
    edited August 2016
    Kilsin said:

    The community asked us for this new pledge and we listened and delivered. :)
    Not really. But its your business and you can run it as you like. The pledge packages as they were met the standards of pre-order games today. $50 pledge is just way below the line most companies would try and hit. I get you think it has value. I get you think rubbing shoulders with the devs is a big deal. Most people look at what they get and compare that to the industry standard, you fall way short. Its really sad. But thats ok, I can wait. Thanks for trying.



    Post edited by Nanfoodle on
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,690
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kilsin said:

    The community asked us for this new pledge and we listened and delivered. :)
    Not really. But its your business and you can run it as you like. The pledge packages as they were met the standards of pre-order games today. $50 pledge is just way below the line most companies would try and hit. I get you think it has value. I get you think rubbing shoulders with the devs is a big deal. Most people look at what they get and compare that to the industry standard, you fall way short. Its really sad. But thats ok, I can wait. Thanks for trying.
    On the other hand, isn't it positive that they don't need more backers to complete their game.

    I for one will be glad to just purchase the final product at launch for 50$ if it turns to be good. I think you'll be happy to purchase it then too? And if they're happy not getting the money any sooner, then it's good for everyone.
     
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,061
    edited August 2016
    Vrika said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kilsin said:

    The community asked us for this new pledge and we listened and delivered. :)
    Not really. But its your business and you can run it as you like. The pledge packages as they were met the standards of pre-order games today. $50 pledge is just way below the line most companies would try and hit. I get you think it has value. I get you think rubbing shoulders with the devs is a big deal. Most people look at what they get and compare that to the industry standard, you fall way short. Its really sad. But thats ok, I can wait. Thanks for trying.
    On the other hand, isn't it positive that they don't need more backers to complete their game.

    I for one will be glad to just purchase the final product at launch for 50$ if it turns to be good. I think you'll be happy to purchase it then too? And if they're happy not getting the money any sooner, then it's good for everyone.
    Thats not how you run a business. You want peoples money and you want it ASAP. Turning down money or making a product and selling it at a lower standard than the industry you are trying to penetrate, so most people wont want it, is not good business. 

    They have dismissed adding alpha to the $50 pledge but they can add other things to give it value. Lowest end mount, head start package, 2nd in line for stress testing/open beta, by the time you get to stress testing, most Alpha gamers will be burnt out and may just log in to be counted. First time open beta players, now they will play the heck out of that stress test. One digital item from what the $100 pledge has. So many things that wont take away from other pledge levels but still add value to the $50 pledge. Just need to take a few min and think.

    EDIT: Also they said they have about what they need for Alpha. Problem is people get burnt out on testing. So even adding as they need more Alpha and Beta testers, pledgers will be the first in line to be asked. 
  • Kayo83Kayo83 Member UncommonPosts: 399
    Nanfoodle said:

    They have dismissed adding alpha to the $50 pledge but they can add other things to give it value. Lowest end mount, head start package, 2nd in line for stress testing/open beta, by the time you get to stress testing, most Alpha gamers will be burnt out and may just log in to be counted. First time open beta players, now they will play the heck out of that stress test. One digital item from what the $100 pledge has. So many things that wont take away from other pledge levels but still add value to the $50 pledge. Just need to take a few min and think.

    EDIT: Also they said they have about what they need for Alpha. Problem is people get burnt out on testing. So even adding as they need more Alpha and Beta testers, pledgers will be the first in line to be asked. 
    I kind of get what theyre doing though. Youre thinking like a costumer right now. Thats just not what this is meant to be. Yes, youre giving them money, and theyre giving you something in return, so its technically buying it but it really isnt the same. Despite what it looks like, the purpose isnt to pre-order the game and get the usual perks, its to help fund it.

    I still think they should offer some kind of beta access, even if its the final pre-stress test beta. Not for the players mind you (its about a year an a half away anyway) but for the success of the game. I agree with your point that we can excuse it all we want, $50 can be the best selling package they have since people are much more likely to part ways with that over $100 or more but without some kind of standard early access package it may not be as popular. Beta access is so standard now, it doesnt seem like it'd be much trouble for them to allow players into it.

    The new packages replacing $100-$150 can still have plenty of other goodies attached that dont include alpha. Hell, the difference between current Knights($100) and Patron($150) is $50 and all they get is 2 additional in game things. Why would the old pledges, which will be the last to access alpha, feel robbed ... yet 2 items for the extra $50 between Knight and Patron is ok? Only alternative IMO, would be another pledge package for $60-$75 that includes beta.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,528
    Dullahan said:
    Kayo83 said:
    So no beta for $50 pledge? Thats.... disappointing.
    That does seem a little strange. It almost sounds like they are just selling you an early copy of the game with no perk other than forum access. I think the amount of time and risk involved in pledging to a game in pre-alpha probably warrants beta.
    My original Kickstarter Pledge for $45 included in game items, Alpha access, the game and 1 month free sub:


    $45

    Explorer's Pledge -

    Seeker's rewards, PLUS: Alpha invite, Digital copy of the game (including 30 days of game time), and the in-game title “Pantheon Explorer!"

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  • ZombieCatZombieCat Member UncommonPosts: 55
    $45

    Explorer's Pledge -

    Seeker's rewards, PLUS: Alpha invite, Digital copy of the game (including 30 days of game time), and the in-game title “Pantheon Explorer!"


    That is the same pledge I have. The KS pledges they carried over had a lot more value to them than what is being offered now.
  • Raidan_EQRaidan_EQ Member UncommonPosts: 247
    ZombieCat said:
    $45

    Explorer's Pledge -

    Seeker's rewards, PLUS: Alpha invite, Digital copy of the game (including 30 days of game time), and the in-game title “Pantheon Explorer!"


    That is the same pledge I have. The KS pledges they carried over had a lot more value to them than what is being offered now.
    Not sure if you're arguing that pledges now should have equal value to the KS pledges, but the better pledge rewards with the KS pledges makes sense - those that bought in early should deserve significantly more - that was in January 2014.  There was much more risk in the pledge back then.

    I would agree that a late tier beta for stress testing would be fair though for the $50.  And focus on the "testing" not early access.
  • ZombieCatZombieCat Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Raidan_EQ said:

    Not sure if you're arguing that pledges now should have equal value to the KS pledges, but the better pledge rewards with the KS pledges makes sense - those that bought in early should deserve significantly more - that was in January 2014.  There was much more risk in the pledge back then.

    I would agree that a late tier beta for stress testing would be fair though for the $50.  And focus on the "testing" not early access.

    I wasn't trying to make any kind of point just stating how different the packages are now.

    In essence the current Knight's Pledge and KS Explorer's Pledge (which shows up as KS Alpha Promise on my account) are very similar if you discount the 2nd copy of the game and adjust the price at the assumed $50 for the game.

    To me it seem very odd to bundle a 2nd copy of the game with every package they have out now. I know they are going to revamp the packages (early/mid Sept if I remember correctly) and hopefully they will offer lower cost packages with alpha/beta access and a single copy of the game.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,061
  • DempseySR1979DempseySR1979 Member UncommonPosts: 9
    We're getting way too much as it is right now with these pledges.  There shouldn't be any physical in game items much less mounts.  Start me off naked with a stick or club I have to find on the ground.  I'm just happy I could donate and help the development of this game without any third party interference messing it up.
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