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MMORPG.com buys a small forum for $20K...

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  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Erronius said:
    Stizzled said:
    I don't see how it's understandable at all. Crag basically gets swindled into buying something that was not as represented, and instead of attempting to change anything pledges to leave the site alone and make no changes, even offering to sell it back to the community.

    But, those same people who swear they would have purchased the site wouldn't put their money where their mouths were when offered the chance. Instead, they proclaimed Craig the devil and started a mass exodus to another site, leaving the only fair and innocent party in the whole mess SOL. Bunch of assholes if you ask me.
    Hi, I'm a former moderator from that forum. A few things: no one was offered a "chance" to "put their money where their mouths were". Craig, for whatever reason, never thought to contact the community (until we contacted him), and Draegan/Teljair probably didn't want to tell us that he'd sold the site itself. Since the exodus, I do believe that people in our community have reached out to Craig to purchase the forum's data, so maybe you can ask Craig about that. Also, I can assure you that the only reason Craig even knew anything was going south in the first place is that myself and some other Moderators pressured an Admin of ours for specifics when we heard about this last Sunday, which lead to what I gather was a frank discussion with Craig and Craig posting that 'had he known', he wouldn't have made the purchase.

    I do appreciate that Craig at least offered to leave us alone and improve the forum software, but at the end of the day this was a business transaction involving actual monies and there would be no guarantees going forward that Craig and Co. wouldn't shut our forums down (for whatever reason) or try to merge our community with this one. And Craig couldn't have known that many in our community were already poised and waiting for an excuse to move away from Draegan and Rerollz Media, just as we couldn't have known that the site itself was already sold out from under us.

    We aren't beholden to stay at that site to help Craig out anymore than any of you are beholden to stay here to help him. Someone could buy this site from Craig and MMORPG tomorrow and it wouldn't make any more sense for me to argue that none of you should leave afterwards than it does to argue that none of us should leave.

    Speaking of 'purchasing the site': none of us care about the domain(s), we only care about the forum's data. And even then we don't care overly much. We left a much better site with better history years ago, and we lost everything then. We'll do so again if we have to. If an agreement can't be reached over that data, then I hope that Craig enjoys threads about random prostitutes and the johns that love them, a nice guy named Gravy, how many mcnuggets McCheese can eat in one sitting, MAGA, sous-viding entire cows, Brad and Pantheon, whether Mist is really a woman or just a depressed and whiny dude, and the occasional argument about the alien lizard angels who built the pyramids and how gargling peroxide can cure what ails you.




    And that's why you'll always remain inferior to others with that immature outlook on life.  Enjoy the crappy life though.
  • PalumPalum Member UncommonPosts: 4
    edited August 2016
    Kyleran said:
    Erronius said:
    Stizzled said:
    I don't see how it's understandable at all. Crag basically gets swindled into buying something that was not as represented, and instead of attempting to change anything pledges to leave the site alone and make no changes, even offering to sell it back to the community.

    But, those same people who swear they would have purchased the site wouldn't put their money where their mouths were when offered the chance. Instead, they proclaimed Craig the devil and started a mass exodus to another site, leaving the only fair and innocent party in the whole mess SOL. Bunch of assholes if you ask me.
    Hi, I'm a former moderator from that forum. A few things: no one was offered a "chance" to "put their money where their mouths were". Craig, for whatever reason, never thought to contact the community (until we contacted him), and Draegan/Teljair probably didn't want to tell us that he'd sold the site itself. Since the exodus, I do believe that people in our community have reached out to Craig to purchase the forum's data, so maybe you can ask Craig about that. Also, I can assure you that the only reason Craig even knew anything was going south in the first place is that myself and some other Moderators pressured an Admin of ours for specifics when we heard about this last Sunday, which lead to what I gather was a frank discussion with Craig and Craig posting that 'had he known', he wouldn't have made the purchase.

    I do appreciate that Craig at least offered to leave us alone and improve the forum software, but at the end of the day this was a business transaction involving actual monies and there would be no guarantees going forward that Craig and Co. wouldn't shut our forums down (for whatever reason) or try to merge our community with this one. And Craig couldn't have known that many in our community were already poised and waiting for an excuse to move away from Draegan and Rerollz Media, just as we couldn't have known that the site itself was already sold out from under us.

    We aren't beholden to stay at that site to help Craig out anymore than any of you are beholden to stay here to help him. Someone could buy this site from Craig and MMORPG tomorrow and it wouldn't make any more sense for me to argue that none of you should leave afterwards than it does to argue that none of us should leave.

    Speaking of 'purchasing the site': none of us care about the domain(s), we only care about the forum's data. And even then we don't care overly much. We left a much better site with better history years ago, and we lost everything then. We'll do so again if we have to. If an agreement can't be reached over that data, then I hope that Craig enjoys threads about random prostitutes and the johns that love them, a nice guy named Gravy, how many mcnuggets McCheese can eat in one sitting, MAGA, sous-viding entire cows, Brad and Pantheon, whether Mist is really a woman or just a depressed and whiny dude, and the occasional argument about the alien lizard angels who built the pyramids and how gargling peroxide can cure what ails you.




    According to doofhoof, Craig made you an offer for the data, $7K, seems fair in light of everything.

    So little understanding of business in the world, a failing of the education system apparently.

    Here's a thought, maybe the community member who sold the site can buy the data back and donate it to the new site?


    The data is in the public domain, why would we pay 7K for a VHS tape of our own public concert?  There was no ToS and no rights of copyright were ever relinquished.  Hint: there's a reason why Facebook requires you to acknowledge a ToS giving them rights to distribute and use your content.

    Craig purchased a copy of the data, the domain name and the right to the advertising profit for hosting the forums.

    --Palum

  • ErroniusErronius Member UncommonPosts: 9
    observer said:
    And that's why you'll always remain inferior to others with that immature outlook on life.  Enjoy the crappy life though.
    If anything is immature, it is this response. I guess I expected better from these forums, but perhaps I shouldn't have.
  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    edited August 2016
    Erronius said:
    observer said:
    And that's why you'll always remain inferior to others with that immature outlook on life.  Enjoy the crappy life though.
    If anything is immature, it is this response. I guess I expected better from these forums, but perhaps I shouldn't have.
    Re-read your response, and you'll see why i replied the way i did.  It's a typical victimization ploy from those hurling insults and being derogatory.  You might feel safe in a 4chan environment, but don't expect the same comfort in a moderated community which has mature adults.
  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 963
    Not knowing if it's true or not, this is very telling for the "story":

    "We purchased this site a few months back from the previous owners and honestly it was not represented to us very accurately. There was no mention that it was anything other than a "mmo community forum that was centered around an old EQ guild." Had I known what I know now - I never would have purchased it."

    To drop 20k on anything and not do your due dilligence is just egregiously negligent regardless if it's a drop in the bucket or not. If that's the case they might as well have bought a package from Star Citizen.
    Give me a break, if someone is going to drop 20k,  on something like this, this is  a sad excuse...I been in this business and others types, and have experience enough to know that you check everything out.

    They have been around, so I don't buy this excuse....
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,310
    Erronius said:
    Kyleran said:
    According to doofhoof, Craig made you an offer for the data, $7K, seems fair in light of everything.

    So little understanding of business in the world, a failing of the education system apparently.

    Here's a thought, maybe the community member who sold the site can buy the data back and donate it to the new site?
    1. I don't even know who doofhoof is. Palum, Lithose and I are posting under our known handles however. Believe who you want, I guess.
    2. AFAIK we reached out to Craig and asked what he and MMORPG would want. You make it sound like Craig rang our doorbell out of the blue looking to make a sale.
    3. Even if (even if!) $7k is remotely accurate, then:
    4. It's probably based on what Craig paid, which probably isn't a fair valuation, all things considered (some of you have even been arguing that he was ripped off, so this should be an easy concept to grasp)
    5. No one in their right mind would want to pay a premium simply because Craig paid too much. This is like buying a used car for 10 times the market value and then trying to sell spare parts off of it at inflated prices. No, we do not want to buy a $50 used car stereo that Craig ripped out of the dash for $500, on the premise that he paid to much for a collection of sites.
    6. $7k for the forums database is pants on head retarded. No one else will ever want that data. It doesn't have a use beyond us wanting to insert it into our new forums to maintain continuity.
    7. Why would Draegan/Teljair voluntarily buy that data back and donate it to us? You probably think that Santa is real, too.
    I will ask you this though: what do we not understand about the business world? You sound like a petulant teenager trying to take a swipe at me while simultaneously trying to sound erudite, yet you couldn't really manage to verbalize a very convincing argument beyond "hurr durr failing of the education system, hurr durr". Is this really a fair representation of the level of discourse here?
    Oh no, the obligatory LOL is what you'll get here.

    ;)

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • ErroniusErronius Member UncommonPosts: 9
    observer said:
    Re-read your response, and you'll see why i replied the way i did.  It's a typical victimization ploy from those hurling insults and being derogatory.  You might feel safe in a 4chan environment, but don't expect the same comfort in a moderated community which has mature adults.
    No, I want you to be specific. Don't be lazy and just toss out a "reread your post and you'll see why I replied the way I did" response. That's just a copout. As it stands now your tapdancing around seems more like a tacit admission that you really don't have an argument to offer.

    The odd thing to me is that you talk like this is an 'adult' community but then your posts are anything but.

    I'd specifically like you to elaborate on what you found in my original post to merit the "immature outlook on life" comment, though I suspect you won't oblige me.
  • pvpirlpvpirl Member UncommonPosts: 171
    Mmorpg was in the wrong on this one and this entire community got upended as a result, it's my understanding that these guys have been around for like 17 years and now can't have their own posts, url, or content.

    Idk why these guys need to be punished for craigs poor business acumen. Plus we were told all this stuff about needed to disable ad block because they couldn't keep the lights on only to see them flagrantly wasting 20k.

    image

  • ErroniusErronius Member UncommonPosts: 9
    Kyleran said:
    Oh no, the obligatory LOL is what you'll get here.

    ;)
    I'll take that as an admission of defeat.

    /victory lap
  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    edited August 2016
    Erronius said:
    observer said:
    Re-read your response, and you'll see why i replied the way i did.  It's a typical victimization ploy from those hurling insults and being derogatory.  You might feel safe in a 4chan environment, but don't expect the same comfort in a moderated community which has mature adults.
    No, I want you to be specific. Don't be lazy and just toss out a "reread your post and you'll see why I replied the way I did" response. That's just a copout. As it stands now your tapdancing around seems more like a tacit admission that you really don't have an argument to offer.

    The odd thing to me is that you talk like this is an 'adult' community but then your posts are anything but.

    I'd specifically like you to elaborate on what you found in my original post to merit the "immature outlook on life" comment, though I suspect you won't oblige me.
    " If an agreement can't be reached over that data, then I hope that Craig enjoys threads about random prostitutes and the johns that love them, a nice guy named Gravy, how many mcnuggets McCheese can eat in one sitting, MAGA, sous-viding entire cows, Brad and Pantheon, whether Mist is really a woman or just a depressed and whiny dude, and the occasional argument about the alien lizard angels who built the pyramids and how gargling peroxide can cure what ails you."

    You belittle a new site owner with a veiled threat, because he refuses to hand over permission of data, to those who aren't invested in his new acquisition.  Why not just move on and let it go?  Do you, and others, harass Zuckerberg after his Oculus Rift purchase?  If so, that says a lot about your emotional investment to a forum community, which quite frankly, is just pathetic.
  • ErroniusErronius Member UncommonPosts: 9
    observer said:
    " If an agreement can't be reached over that data, then I hope that Craig enjoys threads about random prostitutes and the johns that love them, a nice guy named Gravy, how many mcnuggets McCheese can eat in one sitting, MAGA, sous-viding entire cows, Brad and Pantheon, whether Mist is really a woman or just a depressed and whiny dude, and the occasional argument about the alien lizard angels who built the pyramids and how gargling peroxide can cure what ails you."

    You belittle a new site owner with a veiled threat, because he refuses to hand over permission of data, to those who aren't invested in his new acquisition.  Why not just move on and let it go?  Do you, and others, harass Zuckerberg after his Oculus Rift purchase?  If so, that says a lot about your emotional investment to a forum community, which quite frankly, is just pathetic.
    What veiled threat? That he's going to be stuck with useless forum data if an agreement isn't reached? That's not a threat, that's ****ing common sense.

    It's up to Craig and MMORPG.com what they want to do with it, but trying to charge a hefty premium for data that is only desirable to an extremely small subset of users in order to recoup his losses doesn't make much sense. I do however encourage Craig to take that information elsewhere. Maybe I'm wrong...maybe someone else might actually be willing to pay for it! And lest anyone mistake my posting as a hamfisted attempt to sway Craig's decision...AFAIK that ship has already sailed and the conversation is over.

    Speaking of emotional involvement, do you always get a bit ragey like you are here? I've gone out of my way to be as reasonable and honest as possible, but a number of you seem to be extremely emotionally invested in attacking any narrative that doesn't paint Craig and MMORPG.com as the heroes. #confirmationbias? To be clear, I don't think that Craig and MMORPG was 'in the wrong' or tried to treat us poorly, but I'm also not going to let emotion cloud my judgement and put feels before reals.

  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    observer said:
    Erronius said:
    observer said:
    Re-read your response, and you'll see why i replied the way i did.  It's a typical victimization ploy from those hurling insults and being derogatory.  You might feel safe in a 4chan environment, but don't expect the same comfort in a moderated community which has mature adults.
    No, I want you to be specific. Don't be lazy and just toss out a "reread your post and you'll see why I replied the way I did" response. That's just a copout. As it stands now your tapdancing around seems more like a tacit admission that you really don't have an argument to offer.

    The odd thing to me is that you talk like this is an 'adult' community but then your posts are anything but.

    I'd specifically like you to elaborate on what you found in my original post to merit the "immature outlook on life" comment, though I suspect you won't oblige me.
    " If an agreement can't be reached over that data, then I hope that Craig enjoys threads about random prostitutes and the johns that love them, a nice guy named Gravy, how many mcnuggets McCheese can eat in one sitting, MAGA, sous-viding entire cows, Brad and Pantheon, whether Mist is really a woman or just a depressed and whiny dude, and the occasional argument about the alien lizard angels who built the pyramids and how gargling peroxide can cure what ails you."

    You belittle a new site owner with a veiled threat, because he refuses to hand over permission of data, to those who aren't invested in his new acquisition.  Why not just move on and let it go?  Do you, and others, harass Zuckerberg after his Oculus Rift purchase?  If so, that says a lot about your emotional investment to a forum community, which quite frankly, is just pathetic.
    It wasn't a veiled threat. Those threads undoubtedly exist in the data under discussion. What Erronius as saying is that the data is only of use to the rerolled people, anyone else reading it is just going to get offended by stuff that is just a collection of in-jokes.
  • LithoseLithose Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited August 2016
    observer said:
    Re-read your response, and you'll see why i replied the way i did.  It's a typical victimization ploy from those hurling insults and being derogatory.  You might feel safe in a 4chan environment, but don't expect the same comfort in a moderated community which has mature adults.
    Mature adults who believe the business world is about fairness and caring? My daughter understands that the business world isn't that, and she's got Dora the Explorer and Sesame Street shoveling that fairness and caring crap on her all the time.

    Also, "adults" shouldn't need a strictly moderated community. Because adults should be able to handle discourse and difficult topics by understanding their feelings can be controlled, or they can simply not participate if its too difficult for them. You know who requires strict moderation? Children. My 1st grade teach Ms Appel used to moderate the hell out of us to protect our delicate feelings, and sensibilities.

    So, uhh, enjoy your "moderated community", I'll enjoy talking to actual adults who can moderate themselves. (Also, this isn't a slight against most of the members here, I'm sure most of you guys hate being patronized with the moderation level here. But there are always a few that look at the unreasonable restrictions placed on discussion and content as some kind of badge of honor.)


  • dikbutdikbut Member CommonPosts: 11
    Stizzled said:
    But, those same people who swear they would have purchased the site wouldn't put their money where their mouths were when offered the chance. Instead, they proclaimed Craig the devil and started a mass exodus to another site, leaving the only fair and innocent party in the whole mess SOL. Bunch of assholes if you ask me.
    Just wanted to drop in and lol at this. Yeah, as if we're going to drop 7 grand on a bunch of public domain information/posts that has no value to anyone but us. Good call. You'd be every bit as slick of a businessman as Craig McGekko over here.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,057
    edited August 2016
    Forgrimm said:
    It would be like Girl Scouts of America buying out a ganster rap group, 2 very different cultures.
    From the reaction of the former forum users of that place, this seems to actually be a quite accurate comparison, at least the "ganster rap" part.
    The people on that forum seem to be exactly what a "gangster rap" group is: a lot of rude, immature loudmouths hiding behind a computer screen. Same as "gangster rap" groups, which are a bunch of rude, immature loudmouths using a sad parody of music to spit their hate and try to look like the "badasses" they will never be.

    Spot on.

    Another thing to consider for those supposed "mature adults". Who do you think deserves your anger? The guy who bought your site, or the guy who sold it? Seems to me that the traitor is the one who sold your site. Yet you insult and harass the guy who bought it. Very mature indeed. Maybe you should start to wonder who ran away with that money, don't you think?

    Food for thoughts.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • vimesehvimeseh Member CommonPosts: 4
    Forgrimm said:
    It would be like Girl Scouts of America buying out a ganster rap group, 2 very different cultures.
    From the reaction of the former forum users of that place, this seems to actually be a quite accurate comparison, at least the "ganster rap" part.
    The people on that forum seem to be exactly what a "gangster rap" group is: a lot of rude, immature loudmouths hiding behind a computer screen. Same as "gangster rap" groups, which are a bunch of rude, immature loudmouths using a sad parody of music to spit their hate and try to look like the "badasses" they will never be.

    Spot on.
    Most of the insults and immaturity seem to be coming from this forums regular users as far as this thread is concerned. What exactly is immature about a very tight knit community who are used to minimal moderation deciding to pick up and move when their forums are purchased by an ownership group who have a fairly heavy handed moderation style?  If we as a community want to maintain the posting behaviors which range from serious and measured debates to absolute trollish dreck without worrying about incoming bans or draconian posting rules then that shouldn't be an issue. 
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,057
    And Craig said the moderation wouldn't change... but you so mature bunch didn't even give him a chance. Very mature, once again.

    Now answer the second part of my previous post...
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • vimesehvimeseh Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited August 2016
    And Craig said the moderation wouldn't change... but you so mature bunch didn't even give him a chance. Very mature, once again.

    Now answer the second part of my previous post...
    Lithose already put to bed the topic of why we wouldn't trust what Craig said. The TL;DR version would be that he purchased the site for monetary gain and in a situation where our posting behavior and or content created a conflict with the money flow from the site we all know which side would win out.

    As far as the seller of the site? He's been disowned by the community and whatever insults towards Craig beyond he and his team not doing their due diligence in the purchase is penny ante compared to what has been said about our former community member.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,057
    Still, Craig is NOT responsible for the current situation. The guy who sold is.
    And as I said, you didn't even give Craig the benefit of doubt. You judged him culprit of something he didn't do.

    Maybe you guys think that you are mature tough adults or whatever because you were spewing insults at each others on some forum without moderation, but I'm not impressed. Your reaction to what happened looks more like a bunch of teenagers having a temper tantrum and having found a scapegoat for all their misery in the person of poor Craig.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,415
    Admin said:
    Of course we knew it was a community forum. What we did not know was that if the ownership changed they would move elsewhere.  How could we have known that would happen?

    Prior to this happening it was a solid investment and was on track to pay itself off in a year or so (again it was not $20k like the OP stated).
    I never realized these sites could make so much money, 100% return in one year would be phenomenal. 
    ....
  • dikbutdikbut Member CommonPosts: 11
    Still, Craig is NOT responsible for the current situation. The guy who sold is.
    And as I said, you didn't even give Craig the benefit of doubt. You judged him culprit of something he didn't do.

    Maybe you guys think that you are mature tough adults or whatever because you were spewing insults at each others on some forum without moderation, but I'm not impressed. Your reaction to what happened looks more like a bunch of teenagers having a temper tantrum and having found a scapegoat for all their misery in the person of poor Craig.
    Craig tried to buy something that he had no right to. We were not consulted. Poor Craig.
  • ErroniusErronius Member UncommonPosts: 9
    Still, Craig is NOT responsible for the current situation. The guy who sold is.
    And as I said, you didn't even give Craig the benefit of doubt. You judged him culprit of something he didn't do.

    Maybe you guys think that you are mature tough adults or whatever because you were spewing insults at each others on some forum without moderation, but I'm not impressed. Your reaction to what happened looks more like a bunch of teenagers having a temper tantrum and having found a scapegoat for all their misery in the person of poor Craig.
    I'm honestly surprised that people would think that Craig bears no responsibility in this. Caveat emptor isn't some meaningless kerfluffle that's only taught to people because professors just happened to have 15m to spare in lecture.You need to acknowledge that this is a concern before you can even move forward  and discuss topics such as fraud or merchantability. I also don't have a problem acknowledging that Craig may have been mislead - but he wasn't mislead by our community. If he wants to pursue legal action, then there is one party to go after, and it isn't us. If Craig and company chooses legal action then I can only hope that it's made public, because our entire community will sit back eating popcorn and enjoy that delicious schadenfreude.

    I also don't get your guys emotional outbursts here. I came to this thread to dispel any misconceptions I could from our end, and I def haven't been emotional. And no offense, but I doubt that any of you could even get the needle on my proverbial Feels meter to even twitch. You seem to be at least passingly familiar with our community, so ask yourself how much my buttons are being pushed by all of this lackluster B-team milquetoast levels of drama, when I've actually had to moderate those forums for at least several years now. At most, I find your reactions to be both somewhat mystifying and hilariously sad. On a forum where ads were going to be forced down everyone's throat without exception (HI2U Noscript), rather than being able to see where we're coming from, you guys are acting like our position is in no way relateable to yours. One would think that if ANYONE would be able to understand how the prospect of being a captive within one's own community by a business entity primarily interested in ad revenue and pageviews, it would be this one...yet no. You guys have seen how the monetization of your forum pushes policy; it shouldn't be hard to see why we would want to avoid the same fate, LOL.

    Maybe some of you are just angry that any of us deigned to enter your echo chamber here and challenge your version of events. Your insularity is off the charts.





  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,057
    dikbut said:
    Still, Craig is NOT responsible for the current situation. The guy who sold is.
    And as I said, you didn't even give Craig the benefit of doubt. You judged him culprit of something he didn't do.

    Maybe you guys think that you are mature tough adults or whatever because you were spewing insults at each others on some forum without moderation, but I'm not impressed. Your reaction to what happened looks more like a bunch of teenagers having a temper tantrum and having found a scapegoat for all their misery in the person of poor Craig.
    Craig tried to buy something that he had no right to. We were not consulted. Poor Craig.
    Did you own that site? I don't think so. Craig had the money, the owner wanted the money, they traded. They had all the right to do so.
    Welcome to business.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • dikbutdikbut Member CommonPosts: 11
    dikbut said:
    Still, Craig is NOT responsible for the current situation. The guy who sold is.
    And as I said, you didn't even give Craig the benefit of doubt. You judged him culprit of something he didn't do.

    Maybe you guys think that you are mature tough adults or whatever because you were spewing insults at each others on some forum without moderation, but I'm not impressed. Your reaction to what happened looks more like a bunch of teenagers having a temper tantrum and having found a scapegoat for all their misery in the person of poor Craig.
    Craig tried to buy something that he had no right to. We were not consulted. Poor Craig.
    Did you own that site? I don't think so. Craig had the money, the owner wanted the money, they traded. They had all the right to do so.
    Welcome to business.
    He bought a website, but what he really wanted was the traffic from the community. He didn't research his investment. Welcome to business.
  • LithoseLithose Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited August 2016
    Did you own that site? I don't think so. Craig had the money, the owner wanted the money, they traded. They had all the right to do so.
    Welcome to business.

    Oh they absolutely had the right to make that transaction, and the customers had the right to leave. Welcome to business. This is how it works. It's not up to us to appeal to Craig, it was up to him to appeal to us (And as I'll explain, words are cheap). Human beings aren't cattle, they aren't traded in deals. The only thing you can transfer when selling a business is information on customers. Craig did have access to that, and completely failed to do his due diligence about his new customer base.

    I'm absolutely baffled any of you find Craig carries no culpability, but the customer does. If you feel that way, I implore you never to go into business for yourself, avoid the heart ache, and money loss. Because the sense of entitlement it requires to believe that customers should "take your word for it", and "go along with the deals you make" simply does not exist in the business world. (And as a customer, you should also avoid that practice. Business owners are not in business to be your friend, they are in business for self interest.)

    It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our necessities but of their advantages.--Adam Smith.

    We've said the term to you three times now, at least, Caveat Emptor is one of the first things you'll learn in economics, business, and private litigation. It's up to no one but you to do due diligence.  This is the term we used to guide us (And its a term you should use to guide you both in business and out of it) and given the evidence we have--Craig hiding the purchase, the way THIS site is...Old forum software, adds every inch, heavy moderation to keep the advertisers happy, attempts at disabling ad-blocker with a script? Why do you believe all of this exists the way it does here? Why would we trust Craig's word, over a reasonable assessment of the evidence we can view, and the logical progression of his self interest?

    (And again, I'm not vilifying Craig for his self interest. He's putting food on the table for his family. But that thought must always be in your mind when you deal with people, especially businessmen. Never take the word of someone over the evidence of their behavior, or the empirical reality you can study, never assume benevolence over self interest is a motivation--do those things, and life will go much easier for you. Unfortunately, Picard, we don't live in a 24th century utopia, yet. )


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