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Black Desert censorship veers into the realm of the absurd

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  • monochrome19monochrome19 Member UncommonPosts: 715
    Gdemami said:
    Glad I got out before shit hit the fan. This is unacceptable.
    Apparently it is very acceptable since MMOs are doing this for years....Who cares about facts, right?
    So if all your friends jump off a bridge you're going to do it to? Just because other people are doing something doesn't make it a wise decision, as evidenced by the backlash and damage control they are trying to do.
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    edited August 2016
    Lleith said:
    patpelle said:
    Lleith said:
    https://bdomaths.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/the-end-of-a-short-journey/

    The guy was banned for posting that. Controversial? Sure - but certainly not anywhere near the most vitriolic thing that BDO's forums have seen in the past 48 hours. But the ban hammer came down nonetheless: thread deleted, user bludgeoned into silence.

    Honestly, as an MMORPG company, you couldn't draw up a battleplan to sink your own stock and trade faster than what Daum/Kakao (or however the hell it's spelled) are doing. It's absolutely amazing how out-of-touch they are, and even more bizarre that they believe that in the most tech-savvy era in human history that word of their shenanigans wouldn't IMMEDIATELY get out and be poured like gasoline back onto the fire brewing in their backyard.

    Now every 3rd post is quoting that deleted thread! There's nothing like successful censorship!
    The player in question posted about illegal or illicit activities in a previous post and was warned by GM then created another account to bypass the warning.

    • The user shall not promote illegal or illicit activities including cheating and the use of exploits.
    • The user will not create additional forum accounts in order to bypass any warning, suspension, ban or purport themselves as someone else.
    Before you jump to hasty conclusion you might want to get to the bottom of things. The player in question made it sound like he was being cencored but he was just being another person who can't follow the rules.
    I had my account deleted there last night. No swearing... no threats... no sharing of hacks or exploits. I was active in the thread talking with others about chargebacks - this morning? Banned. No warnings; no prior warnings to this date on the account. Just banned. 

    Yes, censorship is happening there - his is hardly an isolated example. 

    Care to enlighten us on the part you left out? I don't care how bad a game developer is -- NO ONE gets banned for no reason.


    You did something. You broke a forum rule. Pretending to be innocent is total B.S.


    Confession time. Would you like to tell us or shall we start guessing?

    ---------------------

    EDIT: Did a little research on my own...


    You claim to have had your account deleted last night? You do realize you CREATED your account last night @ 1:23 AM, right? Your last and only post was @ 2:00. I sure hope your deleted posts were after that or you managed to get a newly created account banned in 37 minutes and now expect us to believe you did nothing wrong? lulz
    Post edited by postlarval on
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    Archlyte said:
    Gdemami said:
    Dakeru said:
    what do they actually gain from banning this guy who gave constructive feedback other than losing the trust of the players?
    1) His post wasn't constructive. That is why he got banned and thread deleted.
    2) Removing such posts makes the forum cleaner, better to read.
    I would prefer to be a big boy and filter out things for myself.

    Cool. then act like a "big boy" and start your own forum and set your own rules.

    I'll wait right here until you get it set up and populated with accounts you now have to manage.

    Well, give me a moment to get a HUGE bag of popcorn. This should be fun.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • LoudWisperLoudWisper Member UncommonPosts: 75
    And be born a forum called MMO Truth Wars.  Full of conspiracy theories of how MMO's are just hear to entertain you and try to get your money.  
  • renstarensta Member RarePosts: 619
    happy you shared this,let this be a lesson to all forum mods about trying to silence people. 

    image


    Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
    Reply
    Add Multi-Quote

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,942
    And be born a forum called MMO Truth Wars.  Full of conspiracy theories of how MMO's are just hear to entertain you and try to get your money.  

    It's not a theory if it's true.  Its expensive to make a real mmo. So they make games that barely qualify as a game and wack the hell out of us......Then wait a few months and wack who is still left again :) 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,450

     
    Fact is a huge amount of players are pissed right now. I don't know if it's a majority, but when all PvP guilds use the "no P2W" logo, it's a sign.

    Note that I absolutely not regret my purchase, I got 6 months of solid fun and I most likely will get a couple of months more fun, so I won't charge back. It would be dishonest from me, not to mention it would most likely not work, some people here seem to be overconfident about what their bank will agree on about a video game.

    I just think that they could have done it more elegantly.
    Remains to be seen what impact it will have on the game. I don't see many players wasting their silver to buy a 70 million cosmetic costume, when the same sum would allow them to upgrade and maintain their own gear. The non-whales are precisely those who will not want to waste their in game currency for some basically useless costume.
    We'll see how long that no p2w thing lasts. On Uno I only saw one guild use that as their emblem and then that was gone.

    The thing is, how many players who say they are against it will be part of it once that feature launches? 



  • TL_GamerTL_Gamer Member CommonPosts: 11
    Long rant, but given you say "on my forum" and created your profile today, I really have to ask what forum are you referring to? It seems relevant to know what your agenda is.
    If you have to ask "What forum" then no offense, you shouldn't even be involved in a discussion like this. The fact that what I just outlined happens in every forum and game on the internet (Except the forum I help run) it is impossible to not see it.

    I have proven this problem exists in videos and any way you can think of, and all people say is nope that doesn't mean anything or I don't see it, which means they're either extremely stupid, or are causing the problem themselves, and it's usually the latter.
  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    TL_Gamer said:
    Long rant, but given you say "on my forum" and created your profile today, I really have to ask what forum are you referring to? It seems relevant to know what your agenda is.
    If you have to ask "What forum" then no offense, you shouldn't even be involved in a discussion like this. The fact that what I just outlined happens in every forum and game on the internet (Except the forum I help run) it is impossible to not see it.

    I have proven this problem exists in videos and any way you can think of, and all people say is nope that doesn't mean anything or I don't see it, which means they're either extremely stupid, or are causing the problem themselves, and it's usually the latter.
    Strangely your response doesn't actually answer the question 'what forum?' and then adds further smoke about videos.

    My guess is you think you are famous, but I have to tell you that from here you appear to be a legend in your own lunchbox.
  • HeretiqueHeretique Member RarePosts: 1,499
    If this was my company I would of banned him too. Sucks that it happened but that's business baby. If they want to kill their game (or make it) not much you can do.
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Gdemami said:
    Archlyte said:
    Better to read for whom? I would prefer to be a big boy and filter out things for myself. Guess that makes me a No Lifer by your definition, but I would rather sift through bad opinions than have someone sanitize it for vulcan logic's sake, or to remove all the bad feelings statements to create a safe zone. 

    People who chant Vocal Minority are always putting a collar on the unknown and trying to pull the leash.
    Better to read for anyone looking for factual information and discussion - something I would expect from company running the game and their forums. The forums are there for their customers to discuss the game, not a tool to vent off their frustration.

    I do not see a relation between moderation and "no-lifers", can you enlighten me on that one?


    You mistake moderation of non-constructive posts with moderation of negative feedback. You can still be critical and express your dissatisfaction in constructive, polite manner.


    Vocal minorities are real, sorry.
    That's your objective proof? You are simply trying to project the image of a strong majority agreeing with you instead of allowing your argument to stand on its own. Everyone is really with you but you have to speak for them because...

    I'm all for being polite, but I think that seeing the opposite only serves to elevate polite, cogent responses. Is it that you feel that the entertainment value of ass-posting tends to overwhelm constructive debate? I am trying to understand the reason for your somewhat elitist position on a public forum. 
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,814
    Archlyte said:
    That's your objective proof? You are simply trying to project the image of a strong majority agreeing with you instead of allowing your argument to stand on its own. Everyone is really with you but you have to speak for them because...

    I'm all for being polite, but I think that seeing the opposite only serves to elevate polite, cogent responses. Is it that you feel that the entertainment value of ass-posting tends to overwhelm constructive debate? I am trying to understand the reason for your somewhat elitist position on a public forum. 
    Official forums is something a company put their name on. It is an official channel how devs communicate with players. It is a part of your "public image" thus heavier moderation is expected.

    How did you get "strong majority agreeing with you" into my post is puzzling. This has nothing to do with "elitism" or in fact me, at all.
  • feroshusferoshus Member UncommonPosts: 164
    edited August 2016
    Lleith said:
    patpelle said:
    Lleith said:
    https://bdomaths.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/the-end-of-a-short-journey/

    The guy was banned for posting that. Controversial? Sure - but certainly not anywhere near the most vitriolic thing that BDO's forums have seen in the past 48 hours. But the ban hammer came down nonetheless: thread deleted, user bludgeoned into silence.

    Honestly, as an MMORPG company, you couldn't draw up a battleplan to sink your own stock and trade faster than what Daum/Kakao (or however the hell it's spelled) are doing. It's absolutely amazing how out-of-touch they are, and even more bizarre that they believe that in the most tech-savvy era in human history that word of their shenanigans wouldn't IMMEDIATELY get out and be poured like gasoline back onto the fire brewing in their backyard.

    Now every 3rd post is quoting that deleted thread! There's nothing like successful censorship!
    The player in question posted about illegal or illicit activities in a previous post and was warned by GM then created another account to bypass the warning.

    • The user shall not promote illegal or illicit activities including cheating and the use of exploits.
    • The user will not create additional forum accounts in order to bypass any warning, suspension, ban or purport themselves as someone else.
    Before you jump to hasty conclusion you might want to get to the bottom of things. The player in question made it sound like he was being cencored but he was just being another person who can't follow the rules.
    I had my account deleted there last night. No swearing... no threats... no sharing of hacks or exploits. I was active in the thread talking with others about chargebacks - this morning? Banned. No warnings; no prior warnings to this date on the account. Just banned. 

    Yes, censorship is happening there - his is hardly an isolated example. 
    In the other thread you made it very clear you had initiated a chargeback and that you had escalated it with Paypal. You said you would never back down etc, etc.

    Devs made it clear that chargebacks would result in your account being banned. So you deserved the ban, take your precious refund and bounce.

    Edit: Oh, and I read the post from that other guy, most of it anyways. It seemed like a bunch of rambling nonsense about brands. Just more whining disguised as a well written argument. I'd imagine they're getting tired of nonsensical threads being started about the same thing over and over.
  • LleithLleith Member UncommonPosts: 126
    edited August 2016
    feroshus said:
    Lleith said:
    patpelle said:
    Lleith said:
    https://bdomaths.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/the-end-of-a-short-journey/

    The guy was banned for posting that. Controversial? Sure - but certainly not anywhere near the most vitriolic thing that BDO's forums have seen in the past 48 hours. But the ban hammer came down nonetheless: thread deleted, user bludgeoned into silence.

    Honestly, as an MMORPG company, you couldn't draw up a battleplan to sink your own stock and trade faster than what Daum/Kakao (or however the hell it's spelled) are doing. It's absolutely amazing how out-of-touch they are, and even more bizarre that they believe that in the most tech-savvy era in human history that word of their shenanigans wouldn't IMMEDIATELY get out and be poured like gasoline back onto the fire brewing in their backyard.

    Now every 3rd post is quoting that deleted thread! There's nothing like successful censorship!
    The player in question posted about illegal or illicit activities in a previous post and was warned by GM then created another account to bypass the warning.

    • The user shall not promote illegal or illicit activities including cheating and the use of exploits.
    • The user will not create additional forum accounts in order to bypass any warning, suspension, ban or purport themselves as someone else.
    Before you jump to hasty conclusion you might want to get to the bottom of things. The player in question made it sound like he was being cencored but he was just being another person who can't follow the rules.
    I had my account deleted there last night. No swearing... no threats... no sharing of hacks or exploits. I was active in the thread talking with others about chargebacks - this morning? Banned. No warnings; no prior warnings to this date on the account. Just banned. 

    Yes, censorship is happening there - his is hardly an isolated example. 
    In the other thread you made it very clear you had initiated a chargeback and that you had escalated it with Paypal. You said you would never back down etc, etc.

    Devs made it clear that chargebacks would result in your account being banned. So you deserved the ban, take your precious refund and bounce.

    Edit: Oh, and I read the post from that other guy, most of it anyways. It seemed like a bunch of rambling nonsense about brands. Just more whining disguised as a well written argument. I'd imagine they're getting tired of nonsensical threads being started about the same thing over and over.
    Hi, uninformed person. Did you know what BDO accounts aren't linked to forum accounts? Of course you didn't! But, unfortunately, that really isn't a defense for flaming me for something that - to any BDO player - would be obvious.

    They had no idea who I was on their forums. I was banned because I commented positively on suggestions made by other players indicating that they wouldn't stand for Daum's treatment. But you go on and pat the heavy hand of needless, terrified, panicky censorship because it makes you feel like a big man. Meanwhile, Black Desert crumbles.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,064
    Lleith said:
    Hi, uninformed person. Did you know what BDO accounts aren't linked to forum accounts? Of course you didn't! But, unfortunately, that really isn't a defense for flaming me for something that - to any BDO player - would be obvious.

    They had no idea who I was on their forums. I was banned because I commented positively on suggestions made by other players indicating that they wouldn't stand for Daum's treatment. But you go on and pat the heavy hand of needless, terrified, panicky censorship because it makes you feel like a big man. Meanwhile, Black Desert crumbles.
    They can easily link both accounts if they want to, unless you hide behind proxies/VPN, which I doubt. Try not to abuse the "uninformed" word when yourself aren't too well informed.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Lleith said:
    feroshus said:
    Lleith said:
    patpelle said:
    Lleith said:
    https://bdomaths.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/the-end-of-a-short-journey/

    The guy was banned for posting that. Controversial? Sure - but certainly not anywhere near the most vitriolic thing that BDO's forums have seen in the past 48 hours. But the ban hammer came down nonetheless: thread deleted, user bludgeoned into silence.

    Honestly, as an MMORPG company, you couldn't draw up a battleplan to sink your own stock and trade faster than what Daum/Kakao (or however the hell it's spelled) are doing. It's absolutely amazing how out-of-touch they are, and even more bizarre that they believe that in the most tech-savvy era in human history that word of their shenanigans wouldn't IMMEDIATELY get out and be poured like gasoline back onto the fire brewing in their backyard.

    Now every 3rd post is quoting that deleted thread! There's nothing like successful censorship!
    The player in question posted about illegal or illicit activities in a previous post and was warned by GM then created another account to bypass the warning.

    • The user shall not promote illegal or illicit activities including cheating and the use of exploits.
    • The user will not create additional forum accounts in order to bypass any warning, suspension, ban or purport themselves as someone else.
    Before you jump to hasty conclusion you might want to get to the bottom of things. The player in question made it sound like he was being cencored but he was just being another person who can't follow the rules.
    I had my account deleted there last night. No swearing... no threats... no sharing of hacks or exploits. I was active in the thread talking with others about chargebacks - this morning? Banned. No warnings; no prior warnings to this date on the account. Just banned. 

    Yes, censorship is happening there - his is hardly an isolated example. 
    In the other thread you made it very clear you had initiated a chargeback and that you had escalated it with Paypal. You said you would never back down etc, etc.

    Devs made it clear that chargebacks would result in your account being banned. So you deserved the ban, take your precious refund and bounce.

    Edit: Oh, and I read the post from that other guy, most of it anyways. It seemed like a bunch of rambling nonsense about brands. Just more whining disguised as a well written argument. I'd imagine they're getting tired of nonsensical threads being started about the same thing over and over.
    Hi, uninformed person. Did you know what BDO accounts aren't linked to forum accounts? Of course you didn't! But, unfortunately, that really isn't a defense for flaming me for something that - to any BDO player - would be obvious.

    They had no idea who I was on their forums. I was banned because I commented positively on suggestions made by other players indicating that they wouldn't stand for Daum's treatment. But you go on and pat the heavy hand of needless, terrified, panicky censorship because it makes you feel like a big man. Meanwhile, Black Desert crumbles.
    Yeah they did know who you were, they operate both the game and the forums it is a trivial task to link the two at the back end.
  • sync8sync8 Member UncommonPosts: 42
    Ayy, too much stress for some company which does not worth. 
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,599
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit. The more people interested, the more likely a reputable attorney will take up the case. Even if only to seek a refund of the game, that alone could definitely hit them where it hurts the most. If a complete refund including money spent in the cash shop were achieved, with a few thousand class members, we're talking hundreds of thousands if not millions. They won't reverse their decision on P2W cash shop and they clearly stated before anyone bought the game that they would do their best to steer clear of the P2W atmosphere. So, at the very least, all we would need to do is prove that our purchase of the game was in good faith that they would keep their promise. Whether or not it could be deemed as false advertisement, most if not all people that bought the game did so in hopes that it wouldn't be P2W. If they refuse to refund the game because you felt you were misled, I highly suggest we get together and file against them. I'm sick of gaming companies manipulating players simply because of greed.

  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    edited August 2016
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Your analogy is a strawman. What cable company ever offered a single payment for life service?

    In any case the game you purchased is still there for you to play for free indefinitely. The P2W items are there in the cash shop but you don't have to buy them to play. Sure the game has changed but that doesn't entitle you to a refund.
  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 581
    Phry said:
    The banned post was well written, and i can easily imagine that a lot of people who play BDO think the same way, at least in regards to the 'promise' that was made when BDO first released here.
    When i looked at the map in BDO yesterday evening, there was one consistent theme, from all the different node points that had been captured by various guilds, they had all changed their 'flag' to one that had a simple symbol, P2W in a red circle with a line through it, nobody in BDO wants the upcoming P2W changes, when you couple that with the protests on the forums, then Daum needs to really take notice, and rather concentrate on censorship, they should be considering ways in which a compromise can be reached.
    What promise? Other than some vague claims that there would never be a sub like thing available there was no lie. People made up this narrative in their heads that daum claimed that you'd never be able to sell pearl shop items on the cash shop when the fact of the matter is (and this is pure 100% fact not opinion) daum stated that being able to sell pearl items on the marketplace (auction hosue) at launch would not be possible (key words are at launch) and that they would revisit the issue down the line and decide how to proceed. 

    They then stated that if they decided to allow it controls/mechanisms would be put in place so people couldn't use it as a system to get ahead at a rapid rate vs people actively playing the game. If anything daum/kakao have kept their word on their statements in regards to that to a T. The sub issue is only related to a video that was made that might of purely just been opinion or again people making up a narrative to further extend things. Saying we have no premium sub and don't intend to is not promising that they never will have one. 

    And most people in BDO didn't give a hoot. A few guilds that actively participate in PVP heavily to control the nodes don't want it because they had feared people being able to catch up with them at some point. Now that is it done and found to not be p2w in the least (you can only really make 100 mill a week and a dedicated grinder can do that in less than 2 full days...) 

    Everyone playing now is vastly enjoying the changes and getting a lot of what they want and things are really actually pretty good in game now. 
  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 581
    Nilden said:
    Gdemami said:
    Nilden said:
    I'm sorry but censorship is just trash.
    Whole point of forum moderation(censorship) is to get rid of trash posts, precisely like one linked in OP.
    I do this thing called supporting free speech. He wasn't posting anything illegal and just stated an opinion. It's trash to censor it and you are trash for supporting censorship.
    Free speech only adheres to governmental interference with your speech and actually only extends so far. If you instill violence with your speech you can and will be arrested for instance. A private company does not need to let you speak freely at all on their service/property and it is in no way supporting free speech to claim that they shouldn't be allowed to censor things.  A company is within legal rights to do so the government on the other hand is not unless you insight violence or a riot. 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,450
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .



  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,303
    cagan said:
    Easy, stop playing such crap P2W games, no matter how pretty they look, they are still grindy P2W crap...
    If they do not make money they will change their business model...but the way people keep paying thousands of dollars for instawin items they will keep pushing these crap games.
    Archage? Best game of 2015! remember the hype?



    You are linking kooncoon, one of the biggest pay2win trash in AA history. He spend massive amount of cash in both KR and NA AA, he got his gears by spending the gold he got from RMT and then he died in PvP he screamed "PAY2WIN!!", he was in ollo server in NA, back when average player had 3.5K gs he got 6K gs in a month after creating toon in server but he got fucked and left crying "PAY2WIN". He is the last person in the universe you should quote when it comes to talking about pay2win.

    And AA is not ruined because of pay2win, AA has more players playing than Trion's all the other games combined. The best guild in NA/EU don't even spend money in the game. They make 1 million gold per month with team effort and get everything they need just by playing as a guild. They are now on the way to rule multiple servers at the same time.
    P2W doesn't mean you have to pay to win, just that it's an option. AA clearly is P2W
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