Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Black Desert censorship veers into the realm of the absurd

1234568»

Comments

  • feroshusferoshus Member UncommonPosts: 164
    edited August 2016
    Lleith said:
    patpelle said:
    Lleith said:
    https://bdomaths.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/the-end-of-a-short-journey/

    The guy was banned for posting that. Controversial? Sure - but certainly not anywhere near the most vitriolic thing that BDO's forums have seen in the past 48 hours. But the ban hammer came down nonetheless: thread deleted, user bludgeoned into silence.

    Honestly, as an MMORPG company, you couldn't draw up a battleplan to sink your own stock and trade faster than what Daum/Kakao (or however the hell it's spelled) are doing. It's absolutely amazing how out-of-touch they are, and even more bizarre that they believe that in the most tech-savvy era in human history that word of their shenanigans wouldn't IMMEDIATELY get out and be poured like gasoline back onto the fire brewing in their backyard.

    Now every 3rd post is quoting that deleted thread! There's nothing like successful censorship!
    The player in question posted about illegal or illicit activities in a previous post and was warned by GM then created another account to bypass the warning.

    • The user shall not promote illegal or illicit activities including cheating and the use of exploits.
    • The user will not create additional forum accounts in order to bypass any warning, suspension, ban or purport themselves as someone else.
    Before you jump to hasty conclusion you might want to get to the bottom of things. The player in question made it sound like he was being cencored but he was just being another person who can't follow the rules.
    I had my account deleted there last night. No swearing... no threats... no sharing of hacks or exploits. I was active in the thread talking with others about chargebacks - this morning? Banned. No warnings; no prior warnings to this date on the account. Just banned. 

    Yes, censorship is happening there - his is hardly an isolated example. 
    In the other thread you made it very clear you had initiated a chargeback and that you had escalated it with Paypal. You said you would never back down etc, etc.

    Devs made it clear that chargebacks would result in your account being banned. So you deserved the ban, take your precious refund and bounce.

    Edit: Oh, and I read the post from that other guy, most of it anyways. It seemed like a bunch of rambling nonsense about brands. Just more whining disguised as a well written argument. I'd imagine they're getting tired of nonsensical threads being started about the same thing over and over.
  • LleithLleith Member UncommonPosts: 126
    edited August 2016
    feroshus said:
    Lleith said:
    patpelle said:
    Lleith said:
    https://bdomaths.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/the-end-of-a-short-journey/

    The guy was banned for posting that. Controversial? Sure - but certainly not anywhere near the most vitriolic thing that BDO's forums have seen in the past 48 hours. But the ban hammer came down nonetheless: thread deleted, user bludgeoned into silence.

    Honestly, as an MMORPG company, you couldn't draw up a battleplan to sink your own stock and trade faster than what Daum/Kakao (or however the hell it's spelled) are doing. It's absolutely amazing how out-of-touch they are, and even more bizarre that they believe that in the most tech-savvy era in human history that word of their shenanigans wouldn't IMMEDIATELY get out and be poured like gasoline back onto the fire brewing in their backyard.

    Now every 3rd post is quoting that deleted thread! There's nothing like successful censorship!
    The player in question posted about illegal or illicit activities in a previous post and was warned by GM then created another account to bypass the warning.

    • The user shall not promote illegal or illicit activities including cheating and the use of exploits.
    • The user will not create additional forum accounts in order to bypass any warning, suspension, ban or purport themselves as someone else.
    Before you jump to hasty conclusion you might want to get to the bottom of things. The player in question made it sound like he was being cencored but he was just being another person who can't follow the rules.
    I had my account deleted there last night. No swearing... no threats... no sharing of hacks or exploits. I was active in the thread talking with others about chargebacks - this morning? Banned. No warnings; no prior warnings to this date on the account. Just banned. 

    Yes, censorship is happening there - his is hardly an isolated example. 
    In the other thread you made it very clear you had initiated a chargeback and that you had escalated it with Paypal. You said you would never back down etc, etc.

    Devs made it clear that chargebacks would result in your account being banned. So you deserved the ban, take your precious refund and bounce.

    Edit: Oh, and I read the post from that other guy, most of it anyways. It seemed like a bunch of rambling nonsense about brands. Just more whining disguised as a well written argument. I'd imagine they're getting tired of nonsensical threads being started about the same thing over and over.
    Hi, uninformed person. Did you know what BDO accounts aren't linked to forum accounts? Of course you didn't! But, unfortunately, that really isn't a defense for flaming me for something that - to any BDO player - would be obvious.

    They had no idea who I was on their forums. I was banned because I commented positively on suggestions made by other players indicating that they wouldn't stand for Daum's treatment. But you go on and pat the heavy hand of needless, terrified, panicky censorship because it makes you feel like a big man. Meanwhile, Black Desert crumbles.
  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Lleith said:
    feroshus said:
    Lleith said:
    patpelle said:
    Lleith said:
    https://bdomaths.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/the-end-of-a-short-journey/

    The guy was banned for posting that. Controversial? Sure - but certainly not anywhere near the most vitriolic thing that BDO's forums have seen in the past 48 hours. But the ban hammer came down nonetheless: thread deleted, user bludgeoned into silence.

    Honestly, as an MMORPG company, you couldn't draw up a battleplan to sink your own stock and trade faster than what Daum/Kakao (or however the hell it's spelled) are doing. It's absolutely amazing how out-of-touch they are, and even more bizarre that they believe that in the most tech-savvy era in human history that word of their shenanigans wouldn't IMMEDIATELY get out and be poured like gasoline back onto the fire brewing in their backyard.

    Now every 3rd post is quoting that deleted thread! There's nothing like successful censorship!
    The player in question posted about illegal or illicit activities in a previous post and was warned by GM then created another account to bypass the warning.

    • The user shall not promote illegal or illicit activities including cheating and the use of exploits.
    • The user will not create additional forum accounts in order to bypass any warning, suspension, ban or purport themselves as someone else.
    Before you jump to hasty conclusion you might want to get to the bottom of things. The player in question made it sound like he was being cencored but he was just being another person who can't follow the rules.
    I had my account deleted there last night. No swearing... no threats... no sharing of hacks or exploits. I was active in the thread talking with others about chargebacks - this morning? Banned. No warnings; no prior warnings to this date on the account. Just banned. 

    Yes, censorship is happening there - his is hardly an isolated example. 
    In the other thread you made it very clear you had initiated a chargeback and that you had escalated it with Paypal. You said you would never back down etc, etc.

    Devs made it clear that chargebacks would result in your account being banned. So you deserved the ban, take your precious refund and bounce.

    Edit: Oh, and I read the post from that other guy, most of it anyways. It seemed like a bunch of rambling nonsense about brands. Just more whining disguised as a well written argument. I'd imagine they're getting tired of nonsensical threads being started about the same thing over and over.
    Hi, uninformed person. Did you know what BDO accounts aren't linked to forum accounts? Of course you didn't! But, unfortunately, that really isn't a defense for flaming me for something that - to any BDO player - would be obvious.

    They had no idea who I was on their forums. I was banned because I commented positively on suggestions made by other players indicating that they wouldn't stand for Daum's treatment. But you go on and pat the heavy hand of needless, terrified, panicky censorship because it makes you feel like a big man. Meanwhile, Black Desert crumbles.
    Yeah they did know who you were, they operate both the game and the forums it is a trivial task to link the two at the back end.
  • sync8sync8 Member UncommonPosts: 42
    Ayy, too much stress for some company which does not worth. 
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited August 2016
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Your analogy is a strawman. What cable company ever offered a single payment for life service?

    In any case the game you purchased is still there for you to play for free indefinitely. The P2W items are there in the cash shop but you don't have to buy them to play. Sure the game has changed but that doesn't entitle you to a refund.
  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 589
    Phry said:
    The banned post was well written, and i can easily imagine that a lot of people who play BDO think the same way, at least in regards to the 'promise' that was made when BDO first released here.
    When i looked at the map in BDO yesterday evening, there was one consistent theme, from all the different node points that had been captured by various guilds, they had all changed their 'flag' to one that had a simple symbol, P2W in a red circle with a line through it, nobody in BDO wants the upcoming P2W changes, when you couple that with the protests on the forums, then Daum needs to really take notice, and rather concentrate on censorship, they should be considering ways in which a compromise can be reached.
    What promise? Other than some vague claims that there would never be a sub like thing available there was no lie. People made up this narrative in their heads that daum claimed that you'd never be able to sell pearl shop items on the cash shop when the fact of the matter is (and this is pure 100% fact not opinion) daum stated that being able to sell pearl items on the marketplace (auction hosue) at launch would not be possible (key words are at launch) and that they would revisit the issue down the line and decide how to proceed. 

    They then stated that if they decided to allow it controls/mechanisms would be put in place so people couldn't use it as a system to get ahead at a rapid rate vs people actively playing the game. If anything daum/kakao have kept their word on their statements in regards to that to a T. The sub issue is only related to a video that was made that might of purely just been opinion or again people making up a narrative to further extend things. Saying we have no premium sub and don't intend to is not promising that they never will have one. 

    And most people in BDO didn't give a hoot. A few guilds that actively participate in PVP heavily to control the nodes don't want it because they had feared people being able to catch up with them at some point. Now that is it done and found to not be p2w in the least (you can only really make 100 mill a week and a dedicated grinder can do that in less than 2 full days...) 

    Everyone playing now is vastly enjoying the changes and getting a lot of what they want and things are really actually pretty good in game now. 
  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 589
    Nilden said:
    Gdemami said:
    Nilden said:
    I'm sorry but censorship is just trash.
    Whole point of forum moderation(censorship) is to get rid of trash posts, precisely like one linked in OP.
    I do this thing called supporting free speech. He wasn't posting anything illegal and just stated an opinion. It's trash to censor it and you are trash for supporting censorship.
    Free speech only adheres to governmental interference with your speech and actually only extends so far. If you instill violence with your speech you can and will be arrested for instance. A private company does not need to let you speak freely at all on their service/property and it is in no way supporting free speech to claim that they shouldn't be allowed to censor things.  A company is within legal rights to do so the government on the other hand is not unless you insight violence or a riot. 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,898
    cagan said:
    Easy, stop playing such crap P2W games, no matter how pretty they look, they are still grindy P2W crap...
    If they do not make money they will change their business model...but the way people keep paying thousands of dollars for instawin items they will keep pushing these crap games.
    Archage? Best game of 2015! remember the hype?



    You are linking kooncoon, one of the biggest pay2win trash in AA history. He spend massive amount of cash in both KR and NA AA, he got his gears by spending the gold he got from RMT and then he died in PvP he screamed "PAY2WIN!!", he was in ollo server in NA, back when average player had 3.5K gs he got 6K gs in a month after creating toon in server but he got fucked and left crying "PAY2WIN". He is the last person in the universe you should quote when it comes to talking about pay2win.

    And AA is not ruined because of pay2win, AA has more players playing than Trion's all the other games combined. The best guild in NA/EU don't even spend money in the game. They make 1 million gold per month with team effort and get everything they need just by playing as a guild. They are now on the way to rule multiple servers at the same time.
    P2W doesn't mean you have to pay to win, just that it's an option. AA clearly is P2W
  • meonthissitemeonthissite Member UncommonPosts: 917
    Lleith said:
    https://bdomaths.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/the-end-of-a-short-journey/

    The guy was banned for posting that. Controversial? Sure - but certainly not anywhere near the most vitriolic thing that BDO's forums have seen in the past 48 hours. But the ban hammer came down nonetheless: thread deleted, user bludgeoned into silence.

    Honestly, as an MMORPG company, you couldn't draw up a battleplan to sink your own stock and trade faster than what Daum/Kakao (or however the hell it's spelled) are doing. It's absolutely amazing how out-of-touch they are, and even more bizarre that they believe that in the most tech-savvy era in human history that word of their shenanigans wouldn't IMMEDIATELY get out and be poured like gasoline back onto the fire brewing in their backyard.

    Now every 3rd post is quoting that deleted thread! There's nothing like successful censorship!
    Welcome to the new method of damage control. 

    You missed a couple of pay to win models there I noticed. These things were practiced in many an MMO especially recently. NWO for example and GW2. When thousands of posts are sent into the forums and they realize hey people might actually be realizing what we're doing to take advantage of them, silence is their method. 

    They remove you so out of sight out of mind it doesn't exist for other players who don't know.

    It's happening all over the PC gaming world particularly in mmo's that try a fast one.
  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 963
    edited August 2016
    Nilden said:
    Gdemami said:
    Nilden said:
    I'm sorry but censorship is just trash.
    Whole point of forum moderation(censorship) is to get rid of trash posts, precisely like one linked in OP.
    I do this thing called supporting free speech. He wasn't posting anything illegal and just stated an opinion. It's trash to censor it and you are trash for supporting censorship.
    WTF is this freedom of speech nonsense, you kids today throw around these words like it  means the same thing all over the place...Guess what YOU HAVE RULES TO FOLLOW... 

    Forums can have any rule they want, I have ran websites for years if you are trashing the company that is running that site, YOU ARE BANNED... End of story....

    Use forums like this or others forums that allow trashing of a person or company to do so... But if you came to my forum to trash me, I would ban you as well!!!

    How about you make a game or run a company, and I will sit there and post nonsense all day over it....  I bet you would ban me to..

    You people need to get real...I hate P2W as much as the next guy but sick of this generation thinking everyone owes them something....  and that freedom of speech is everything...and you kids to are offended by every damn thing people say.... You are in trouble in life if you get your feelings hurt so easy ...and whine about some dumb things..
    STOP PLAYING THE GAME IF YOU HATE IT SO MUCH!!!


    What a joke, freedom of speech and  crap like censorship........ WOW you people...   No wonder we have people like we do running countrys and running them into the ground the way we do....People like this whining about the dumb things..Guess what people are dying of cancer, and starving,  do they get freedom of speech and  health care like they should?? No, so go rant about something more important!!!!

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Rhoklaw said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Actually, DAUM did make the statement of steering clear of P2W as much as possible 2-3 weeks before launch. They knew that if they had said that they would leave P2W as an option on the table before launch, they would have had a lot less in box sales at launch, if not forever. I know that and so do you and that is borderline false advertising. They had no intention of keeping cash shop items out of the in-game market. They flat out lied about it considering it hasn't even been out in NA / EU for 6 months yet and we are already seeing it. You may think that is acceptable business practices, but I sure as hell don't.

    EDIT: This is no different than what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the Trials of Obi Wan expansion launched right before the NGE. Guess what happened with that? They offered to refund on the expansion for everyone that bought it.

    SOE Refund for ToO expansion launching just days before NGE.
    That's true but what they said was that "if they revisited allowing cash bought items they would have 'controls'"

    The thing is, anyone worth their salt should have realized that eventually they would allow these items (they didn't say they would "never") and the whole idea of P2W is so subjective that anyone truly concerned should have steered clear.
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 589
    Rhoklaw said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Actually, DAUM did make the statement of steering clear of P2W as much as possible 2-3 weeks before launch. They knew that if they had said that they would leave P2W as an option on the table before launch, they would have had a lot less in box sales at launch, if not forever. I know that and so do you and that is borderline false advertising. They had no intention of keeping cash shop items out of the in-game market. They flat out lied about it considering it hasn't even been out in NA / EU for 6 months yet and we are already seeing it. You may think that is acceptable business practices, but I sure as hell don't.

    EDIT: This is no different than what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the Trials of Obi Wan expansion launched right before the NGE. Guess what happened with that? They offered to refund on the expansion for everyone that bought it.

    SOE Refund for ToO expansion launching just days before NGE.
    And daum has VERY VERY much steered clear of p2w. People bending the meaning of p2w to fit their own meaning don't suddenly make something pay to win. Unless you can flat out buy power in the cash shop of an mmorpg that gives you power that is greater than you can get in the game otherwise and that is literally the only way to attain that item then the game in question isn't P2W no matter what someone wants to think it is. Being able to sell cash shop items in a very limited manner for some in game silver does not make it pay 2 win in the least and they very heavily kept to their word wit hthe cash shop. None of the cash shop items are p2w (including the ghillie suit that people love to go on about, hiding ones name isn't an edge at all unless you are flat out relying on them, I can get that same first strike just following you and using a ranged attack so it really doesn't help, and if you can't keep track of someone without a name plate just please gtfo) 

    Kakao (daum) has nothing going on at the moment that is pay to win despite what your skewed outlook on pay to win is. Daum removed items that had been in the korean/russian version of that game that were actually pay 2 win and stated that they would. They also stated as I stated earlier that they would not allow selling of pearl items on the marketplace at launch, but would revisit the issue at a later date (6 months later) and decide what to do from there and furthermore they stated if they did allow it mechanisms would be in place so it could not be abused to buy power fast which the 5 a week limit + a 20 mill cap on costumes being the high end rather proves that they kept their word. 

    And for the love of god you people need to stop skewing what pay 2 win is. If you want to see actual pay 2 win go play Mu or Shaiya or Silk Road 
  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 589
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Actually, DAUM did make the statement of steering clear of P2W as much as possible 2-3 weeks before launch. They knew that if they had said that they would leave P2W as an option on the table before launch, they would have had a lot less in box sales at launch, if not forever. I know that and so do you and that is borderline false advertising. They had no intention of keeping cash shop items out of the in-game market. They flat out lied about it considering it hasn't even been out in NA / EU for 6 months yet and we are already seeing it. You may think that is acceptable business practices, but I sure as hell don't.

    EDIT: This is no different than what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the Trials of Obi Wan expansion launched right before the NGE. Guess what happened with that? They offered to refund on the expansion for everyone that bought it.

    SOE Refund for ToO expansion launching just days before NGE.
    That's true but what they said was that "if they revisited allowing cash bought items they would have 'controls'"

    The thing is, anyone worth their salt should have realized that eventually they would allow these items (they didn't say they would "never") and the whole idea of P2W is so subjective that anyone truly concerned should have steered clear.
    Pay 2 win isn't even subjective though. There is a literal meaning to it and an "opinionated" meaning. The two don't quite match up at all and the opinionated meaning of it pretty much makes anything a person doesn't like being for real money a p2w scenario even when it really isn't. The opinionated meaning of it seems to be some ever expanding entity that pretty much encompasses well literally everything. I hate this whole "everyone has their own idea of what pay 2 win is" bullshit that has sprung up. If a game does not fall under the literal meaning of the term which has been buying power in the cash shop that gives you an edge otherwise not attainable in the game, (ie making the best gear in a game gear you need to open your wallet to get.) then by definition that game is not actually pay 2 win. 
  • renstarensta Member RarePosts: 728
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Actually, DAUM did make the statement of steering clear of P2W as much as possible 2-3 weeks before launch. They knew that if they had said that they would leave P2W as an option on the table before launch, they would have had a lot less in box sales at launch, if not forever. I know that and so do you and that is borderline false advertising. They had no intention of keeping cash shop items out of the in-game market. They flat out lied about it considering it hasn't even been out in NA / EU for 6 months yet and we are already seeing it. You may think that is acceptable business practices, but I sure as hell don't.

    EDIT: This is no different than what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the Trials of Obi Wan expansion launched right before the NGE. Guess what happened with that? They offered to refund on the expansion for everyone that bought it.

    SOE Refund for ToO expansion launching just days before NGE.
    That's true but what they said was that "if they revisited allowing cash bought items they would have 'controls'"

    The thing is, anyone worth their salt should have realized that eventually they would allow these items (they didn't say they would "never") and the whole idea of P2W is so subjective that anyone truly concerned should have steered clear.
    Pay 2 win isn't even subjective though. There is a literal meaning to it and an "opinionated" meaning. The two don't quite match up at all and the opinionated meaning of it pretty much makes anything a person doesn't like being for real money a p2w scenario even when it really isn't. The opinionated meaning of it seems to be some ever expanding entity that pretty much encompasses well literally everything. I hate this whole "everyone has their own idea of what pay 2 win is" bullshit that has sprung up. If a game does not fall under the literal meaning of the term which has been buying power in the cash shop that gives you an edge otherwise not attainable in the game, (ie making the best gear in a game gear you need to open your wallet to get.) then by definition that game is not actually pay 2 win. 
    Don't be silly, this is true for games like guildwars 2 ( games that don't focus on gear....) 
    In black desert every few months you will get a gear patch, getting the new gear will take another few months until the next patch, but not for all...  those who pay real money will be able to obtain it earlier, so in a way, they will always stay ahead, so in a way they get a true advantage unattainable by poor income players.  
    So another important factor is what type of game we talking about....  Gear progression type games with options in cash that allow them to progress faster to the gear will always give paying users advantage. 

    image


    Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
    Reply
    Add Multi-Quote

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    rensta said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    In Texas, it only takes 100 people to start a class action lawsuit.
    It also takes a complaint that's more substantial than a bucket of crocodile tears from a group of butthurt children who think they deserve money refunded for something they have been playing, only because it changed and they don't like it.
    Here's an analogy.  A new cable company advertises they have continuous service and will not cut off service in the future.  Not only that, but you pay upfront and don't have to do monthly payments.

    You buy in.  4 months later, they cut off your service.  They offer a new service of 100 channels of Cspan that you have to pay in installments for.

    This is basically what happened with BDO.  The marketing manager said the game is not p2w and will never be p2w.

    My non-p2w service that I bought in for was abruptly stopped with 1 weeks notice.  The new p2w service offered is not something I'm interested in.

    ***

    I find it really odd that you guys are defending deceitful marketing.  You are fighting for the rights of companies to lie to you and get away with it.

    I think some here are confused as to what role they play in the scheme of things.  You are a consumer, not a corporation.

    I know it's enticing to empathize with the rich and powerful, thinking that if you just think like they do, one day you too will be rich and powerful.  But it's a fallacy.
    Except daum never said they wouldn't " cut off service " or in this case allowing pearl items to be purchased with cash and sold in game. This keeps getting repeated but ignored. And people aren't defending the company thy are pointing out the obvious .
    Actually, DAUM did make the statement of steering clear of P2W as much as possible 2-3 weeks before launch. They knew that if they had said that they would leave P2W as an option on the table before launch, they would have had a lot less in box sales at launch, if not forever. I know that and so do you and that is borderline false advertising. They had no intention of keeping cash shop items out of the in-game market. They flat out lied about it considering it hasn't even been out in NA / EU for 6 months yet and we are already seeing it. You may think that is acceptable business practices, but I sure as hell don't.

    EDIT: This is no different than what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the Trials of Obi Wan expansion launched right before the NGE. Guess what happened with that? They offered to refund on the expansion for everyone that bought it.

    SOE Refund for ToO expansion launching just days before NGE.
    That's true but what they said was that "if they revisited allowing cash bought items they would have 'controls'"

    The thing is, anyone worth their salt should have realized that eventually they would allow these items (they didn't say they would "never") and the whole idea of P2W is so subjective that anyone truly concerned should have steered clear.
    Pay 2 win isn't even subjective though. There is a literal meaning to it and an "opinionated" meaning. The two don't quite match up at all and the opinionated meaning of it pretty much makes anything a person doesn't like being for real money a p2w scenario even when it really isn't. The opinionated meaning of it seems to be some ever expanding entity that pretty much encompasses well literally everything. I hate this whole "everyone has their own idea of what pay 2 win is" bullshit that has sprung up. If a game does not fall under the literal meaning of the term which has been buying power in the cash shop that gives you an edge otherwise not attainable in the game, (ie making the best gear in a game gear you need to open your wallet to get.) then by definition that game is not actually pay 2 win. 
    Don't be silly, this is true for games like guildwars 2 ( games that don't focus on gear....) 
    In black desert every few months you will get a gear patch, getting the new gear will take another few months until the next patch, but not for all...  those who pay real money will be able to obtain it earlier, so in a way, they will always stay ahead, so in a way they get a true advantage unattainable by poor income players.  
    So another important factor is what type of game we talking about....  Gear progression type games with options in cash that allow them to progress faster to the gear will always give paying users advantage. 
    True, though its amusing to watch the semantic gymnastics going on by some people in their efforts to somehow turn black into white and persuade people that something is obviously pay to win, actually isn't. When you can buy an item in the cash shop, that can then be sold in game for in game currency, then that is pay to win, in the case of BDO it allows players to buy upgrade items in amounts that enable them to upgrade their gear to the max far faster than players would otherwise be able to achieve.
    I have no doubt that there is currently an arms race going on as the top guilds vie for resources.
    New players are probably advised to keep their heads down and stay out of the way, because with the controls in place currently, they can't actually sell enough pearl shop items to buy the gear necessary to attempt to compete - it would take at least a month of selling to the current cap to gain enough resources to even begin to compete, something that does not apply to existing players with relatively high end gear that can now max out a couple of pieces a week before they hit the same limits. :o
Sign In or Register to comment.