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Black Desert gone HARD p2w! (Cash shop Items, available at Market Place next week)

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Comments

  • redonyouredonyou Member UncommonPosts: 32
    edited August 2016
    Gdemami said:
    redonyou said:
    I just thought it would be in the game's best interest
    You mistake "the game's best interest" for your best interest.

    Common sight on these boards, no worries.
    You mistake your own words for mine. No worries, common trolling on the internets.
  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    How about...."Who cares?!?"

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,212
    How about...."Who cares?!?"
    And I was just wondering what you thought about the situation...
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,372
    Recore said:
    Good move. 

    Everything they have done since release the haters said would kill the game but the game keeps getting better and better.  :o


    Phenomenal sarcasm there, gave you an awesome for it.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 963
    Im glad Ive never played and never will play this game.
    Your losing out, the game is fun... I doubt this will fly, they  will lose to many players if  it affects  stats..If not, then so what this is common, and they need to make a living, if it does not cause other players to  gain advantage then so what...If it does then  yes it will  piss me off and many others..which I bet will cause them not to do it or stop it..... They give  so much stuff for free ....No other company does, every time they have any tiny issue, we get free stuff, what other company does this..??? No one!!!

    So sir you are missing out, I been playing MMO's since they been made and they quit for about 3 years due to all  of the free crap...Black Desert made me come back...They did a great job overall..
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    mmorpg.com image resizing sucks.  Suffice to say people throughout the game are demonstrating their dislike of this proposed change.


    It's probably less than 5000 players total -  a small but vocal minority 

    Majority of players will be fine with the change and many will love the option of avoiding the grind and just selling a few things to earn silver 

    Yeah, um... I'm just going to say that I believe you are incredibly out of touch with how most players feel about this change.


    And you are in touch with majority of players?

    Daum/Kakao is not reading forum posts because they know it's the voice of a very small percent of players.

    Also how many say they hate it and they threaten to quit and how many will follow through?

    Gamers are fickle - they often say one thing and do the exact opposite. 

    This is why forums are shit as far as actual majority opinion.

    Daum Kakao have internal metrics that show them even with some attrition this change will make them more money longterm.

    Kakao/Daum see player spending trends, they are making the right decision.
    Yeah because no company in history has made a bad move after examining metrics, right?

    They may not be reading forum posts, but are they looking at the game?  Many guilds have switched their logo to the "No P2W" logo in-game.  Protests are being scheduled.

    Once again, I believe you are wrong in your assumption that a small percentage of players are upset about this.

    Well we have two different opinions and that's fine.

    Ultimately Kakao Games and Pearl Abyss have all the cards in their hands as far as how they are going to make money from their business.

    Guilds can protest and this cool but after the change will they Black Desert be making more money or less?

    I am pretty sure it's gonna be more even after attrition 
    I really don't think they will make more.  Not with the way they are implementing it.  Like I said before, with the limits on sales, not even your average whale is going to be satisfied.  Nobody pays hundreds of money in a video game for gear that is subpar, and it will be subpar unless they grind too, and a LOT of grinding.

    Whales don't like grinding- that's the whole point of being a whale- to avoid the grind.  And they also don't like losing.

    So who do you have left?  A game catering to trust fund babies?  I don't see that being very profitible long-term.

    I'd potentially agree that they might make more money if it was uncapped sales.  But with this half-assed implementation, I don't think so.  I think the game is going to lose tons of players, the reputation will tank beyond repair, and even whales will quit once they realize they can't just pay and win automatically without grinding tons in addition to it.

    If they felt like the game was going to fall off a cliff by the end of the month, maybe.  But I don't think that's an accurate prediction and again, this half-assing the p2w wouldn't be the right way to grab cash.
  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 963
    edited August 2016
    nm
  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 963
    Thourne said:
    Well they just lost this customer.
    I happily spent 50ish dollars a month on pets, costumes, etc because I enjoyed the game.

    Then they added the packs and I was concerned....they are basically a sub on top of the B2P+Cash Store.

    Now this...I'm out.


    So let me get this straight... DO you think a company can make it on just a box copy of 30 bucks ?? Then keep adding free content?????      I have been in this industry a long time, they won't last 2 mins just on a box copy...This is business.......Elder Scrolls online charges for new content,  20-50 bucks.. every update nearly.... and they have a store to sell stuff.....

    This is business..   No game company can stay in business off of 30 bucks .... a person... Yes some may pay more ...But they can't count on that ...They do not have a SUB... That is how old MMO's made it.

    Now they don't have one, which I love since I don't have 20 hours a day to play one game, so people love it..No one is forcing you to buy from  a store....   


    Please make  a  game, then run it to understand why things are the way they are...Now the Pay to Win part that part I do agree with everyone...They need to keep  out stats where it effects other players to gain advantage ...That I agree..

    But anything else is fair game...  I love that I can buy inventory and a lot of it... Otherwise if I was Black Desert  I  would say screw you all, and sell content like Elder Scrolls does, they are doing well that way....

    I bet you people  would throw a fit... Then sell stuff on the store....I personally think all of this is ok, as long as they rethink the stat gains from gear.. The rest is ok...

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,151
    While I haven't played the game, I don't see what the big deal is.  Maybe I just misunderstand the situation.  As I understand it, there are items in the item mall that people want for various reasons.  Right now, you can buy them with real-life money, but they can't be traded in-game.  And now they're changing it so that those items can be traded in game.  Is that all?  If that's all it is, then to me, the surprise would be that the items couldn't be traded before.

    Or is there more to it than that?  Could someone please explain why you say this is such a horrible thing?
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,562
    edited August 2016
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    mmorpg.com image resizing sucks.  Suffice to say people throughout the game are demonstrating their dislike of this proposed change.


    It's probably less than 5000 players total -  a small but vocal minority 

    Majority of players will be fine with the change and many will love the option of avoiding the grind and just selling a few things to earn silver 

    Yeah, um... I'm just going to say that I believe you are incredibly out of touch with how most players feel about this change.


    And you are in touch with majority of players?

    Daum/Kakao is not reading forum posts because they know it's the voice of a very small percent of players.

    Also how many say they hate it and they threaten to quit and how many will follow through?

    Gamers are fickle - they often say one thing and do the exact opposite. 

    This is why forums are shit as far as actual majority opinion.

    Daum Kakao have internal metrics that show them even with some attrition this change will make them more money longterm.

    Kakao/Daum see player spending trends, they are making the right decision.
    Yeah because no company in history has made a bad move after examining metrics, right?

    They may not be reading forum posts, but are they looking at the game?  Many guilds have switched their logo to the "No P2W" logo in-game.  Protests are being scheduled.

    Once again, I believe you are wrong in your assumption that a small percentage of players are upset about this.

    Well we have two different opinions and that's fine.

    Ultimately Kakao Games and Pearl Abyss have all the cards in their hands as far as how they are going to make money from their business.

    Guilds can protest and this cool but after the change will they Black Desert be making more money or less?

    I am pretty sure it's gonna be more even after attrition 
    I really don't think they will make more.  Not with the way they are implementing it.  Like I said before, with the limits on sales, not even your average whale is going to be satisfied.  Nobody pays hundreds of money in a video game for gear that is subpar, and it will be subpar unless they grind too, and a LOT of grinding.

    Whales don't like grinding- that's the whole point of being a whale- to avoid the grind.  And they also don't like losing.

    So who do you have left?  A game catering to trust fund babies?  I don't see that being very profitible long-term.

    I'd potentially agree that they might make more money if it was uncapped sales.  But with this half-assed implementation, I don't think so.  I think the game is going to lose tons of players, the reputation will tank beyond repair, and even whales will quit once they realize they can't just pay and win automatically without grinding tons in addition to it.

    If they felt like the game was going to fall off a cliff by the end of the month, maybe.  But I don't think that's an accurate prediction and again, this half-assing the p2w wouldn't be the right way to grab cash.


    They will uncap the sales after a while, they are doing the "gradual change" approach to acclimate the playerbase to the idea and then later uncap.

    The final state will be uncapped sales.

    That's my prediction - one thing we've seen from KakAO Games is they do gradual changes over time with their monetization model.

    But Daum was very honest about how monetization might change after launch - I remember that pre-launch statement well  

    They didn't lie - they were upfront about possible monetization changes down the road



  • Gyva02Gyva02 Member RarePosts: 482
    edited August 2016
    Soooo glad I never wasted a minute in this money grab... 

  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Mardukk said:
    How about...."Who cares?!?"
    And I was just wondering what you thought about the situation...
    You were?

    Wait...who are you again?

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,562
    Quizzical said:
    While I haven't played the game, I don't see what the big deal is.  Maybe I just misunderstand the situation.  As I understand it, there are items in the item mall that people want for various reasons.  Right now, you can buy them with real-life money, but they can't be traded in-game.  And now they're changing it so that those items can be traded in game.  Is that all?  If that's all it is, then to me, the surprise would be that the items couldn't be traded before.

    Or is there more to it than that?  Could someone please explain why you say this is such a horrible thing?


    Yep that's all it is - which is what the vast majority of MMOS in the west allow already - selling cash shop items for in game currency.


  • redonyouredonyou Member UncommonPosts: 32
    Quizzical said:
    While I haven't played the game, I don't see what the big deal is.  Maybe I just misunderstand the situation.  As I understand it, there are items in the item mall that people want for various reasons.  Right now, you can buy them with real-life money, but they can't be traded in-game.  And now they're changing it so that those items can be traded in game.  Is that all?  If that's all it is, then to me, the surprise would be that the items couldn't be traded before.

    Or is there more to it than that?  Could someone please explain why you say this is such a horrible thing?
    That's it in a nutshell. However, you might be underestimating how significant of a change that is.

    Gear progression in this game gets to be pretty absurd. It's heavily RNG based, and there's diminishing returns, making it so that the cost associated with obtaining the absolute best gear possible makes it realistically unfeasible at this time. However, this will allow you to just throw $ at the game until you get there, at which point the only people that could compete with you are others who did the very same thing.
  • time007time007 Member UncommonPosts: 1,054
    Cecropia said:
    This is one reason I steer clear of F2P mmos; don't want to invest my time in a game where this can happen at any time. 
    BDO is buy to play, not F2P.

    IMPORTANT:  Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING.  Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally.  If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead.  I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING.  Thank you.
    image

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,561
    Remember when DAUM said, we will do our best to steer clear of a P2W atmosphere at launch? So they almost made it 6 months before giving in. Greed is a huge driving force in this industry and we'll soon see how many people support it by continuing to play the game.

  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558
    Damn this game gets more entertaining by the day. That's all without playing it.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,151
    redonyou said:
    Quizzical said:
    While I haven't played the game, I don't see what the big deal is.  Maybe I just misunderstand the situation.  As I understand it, there are items in the item mall that people want for various reasons.  Right now, you can buy them with real-life money, but they can't be traded in-game.  And now they're changing it so that those items can be traded in game.  Is that all?  If that's all it is, then to me, the surprise would be that the items couldn't be traded before.

    Or is there more to it than that?  Could someone please explain why you say this is such a horrible thing?
    That's it in a nutshell. However, you might be underestimating how significant of a change that is.

    Gear progression in this game gets to be pretty absurd. It's heavily RNG based, and there's diminishing returns, making it so that the cost associated with obtaining the absolute best gear possible makes it realistically unfeasible at this time. However, this will allow you to just throw $ at the game until you get there, at which point the only people that could compete with you are others who did the very same thing.
    Does this materially affect anything other than the endgame?  MMORPG endgames are generally awful anyway, and adding one more reason for it to be awful really doesn't change anything.  If it wrecks the game somehow when you're level 30 or 40, that's a totally different matter.

    It doesn't sound like this should create additional in-game weapons, but only redistribute who has them.  Or does the best gear come exclusively from the item mall to begin with?
  • redonyouredonyou Member UncommonPosts: 32
    You can literally level past 45 within 24 hours, at which point you become automatically eligible to be PK'd. It's a competitive game with open world PvP, and you can buy the best gear in the game from an NPC for silver. It's not quite that straightforward (watch the video Gyva02 posted just now if you want more specifics), but there's no shortage of available ways to spend that silver.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,562
    Gyva02 said:
    Soooo glad I never wasted a minute in this money grab... 



    Daum clearly said this prior to launch:

    http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/8038-pm-diary-22-cash-shop-and-more/


    • If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage, there will be control mechanisms that will prevent players from heavily profiting and gaining an advantage by repetitively selling Cash Items on the marketplace

    Pretty damn honest
  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    How about...."Who cares?!?"
    Many people who play the game care.  It's rude to come in a thread and act like an ass.  Weren't you ever taught any manners?  Either say something about the subject or stop derailing the thread please.
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 8,953
    Kyleran said:
    Recore said:
    Good move. 

    Everything they have done since release the haters said would kill the game but the game keeps getting better and better.  :o


    Phenomenal sarcasm there, gave you an awesome for it.

    Cool, see in a month for the next thing that will kill the game.
  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607
    scorpex-x said:
    scorpex-x said:
    azurrei said:
    I'm confused on how this constitutes pay to win? Do costumes play a role in PvP? Do they give stat boosts? Do the provide an unfair advantage against other players?

    They said "Value Package, Outfits, Costumes and Pets ", which seems mostly cosmetic to me, in which case, welcome to free to play and buy to play MMOs!

    If Value Packages provide some gear with BiS stats, THEN there's something to complain about. If not, then common, we're been over this forums. Stop it.
    BiS slot gear can all be purchased via the marketplace or night vendor...hence $$$>silver>BiS gear - get it?
    Almost every game has this though.

    I can't think of many MMO's where you can buy your way to BiS gear. 
    You know that almost every mmo has mercs, and most mmo games have cash shops right?  Even XIV lets you sell cash shop items.
    Ya, but can you run out with that currency and buy the best gear in the game? Same with WoW. You can sell WoW tokens, but you're not going to be buying any BiS gear with the gold.
  • redonyouredonyou Member UncommonPosts: 32
    edited August 2016
    DMKano said:
    Quizzical said:
    While I haven't played the game, I don't see what the big deal is.  Maybe I just misunderstand the situation.  As I understand it, there are items in the item mall that people want for various reasons.  Right now, you can buy them with real-life money, but they can't be traded in-game.  And now they're changing it so that those items can be traded in game.  Is that all?  If that's all it is, then to me, the surprise would be that the items couldn't be traded before.

    Or is there more to it than that?  Could someone please explain why you say this is such a horrible thing?


    Yep that's all it is - which is what the vast majority of MMOS in the west allow already - selling cash shop items for in game currency.


    Most of those (at least in the the western market) don't have a gear progression like BDO's where you can spend thousands of dollars to enable god-mode in PvP.

    Edit: To be fair, we have to wait and see how much it will actually cost to obtain full BiS gear, but that's not really the point anyway.
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited August 2016

    This is a boon for the non-competitive PvE role player type and a loss of massive proportions to the competitive PvP centric type player.  In case anyone had any doubts as to where the money/profit is in MMORPGs (and I know some of you PvP-centric types do), this move should erase all doubt quite convincingly.  

    PvP-centric game play in MMORPGs will always incorporate a P2W component that will have very little impact on the PvE role player types but that will have huge repercussions toward its competitive PvP game play.  In weighing their profit margin decisions, developers/publishers are willing to consistently sacrifice the concerns of the minority competitive PvP-centric players in MMORPGs in favor of its majority PvE-centric MMORPG demographic. 
    Post edited by LacedOpium on
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