The problem is that AAA MMOs is more a oligopoly then a free market at the time, some publishers controls almost the entire market with some rather similar products.
Free market is awesome unless a few giants buy up almost everything (like EA, Activision, NC Soft and PWE). What we need is more diversity and no institute will fix that. The larger western publishers all seems uninterested in MMOs nowadays and ain't making zilch.
What we really need is a few competent developers that hasn't done MMOs before but have the know how and funding to make great games would get interested in the genre. Valve and Rockstar for example.
I DONT think we need a governmental body to regulate game design, people need to be responsible for their own lives. I DO think we need something to put more consumer protection into the software (focusing on games) industry. Game makers currently get away with so much it is just silly. Compare the rights of the consumer when buying a single player game vs buying a car:
1. Imagine going into a car dealership and ordering a car with specific features and then after you pay for it, several of those features are removed. 2. Imagine you also buy that car and pay the whole thing off but then they tell you that you have no legal right to sell the car to anyone else. 3. Imagine after buying the car and signing a contract that the dealership can alter that contract and remove anything/everything from it to suit themselves, including the warranty.
The average new car in the U.S. costs over $30K and is an integral part of most peoples' lives. The average video game costs about $50 and is sheer entertainment. I don't think the same level of protection is called for.
Yup, independent thought and imagination should be institutionalized because that's what meditation is all about. Independent thought, imagination and freeing one's spirit.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I DONT think we need a governmental body to regulate game design, people need to be responsible for their own lives. I DO think we need something to put more consumer protection into the software (focusing on games) industry. Game makers currently get away with so much it is just silly. Compare the rights of the consumer when buying a single player game vs buying a car:
1. Imagine going into a car dealership and ordering a car with specific features and then after you pay for it, several of those features are removed. 2. Imagine you also buy that car and pay the whole thing off but then they tell you that you have no legal right to sell the car to anyone else. 3. Imagine after buying the car and signing a contract that the dealership can alter that contract and remove anything/everything from it to suit themselves, including the warranty.
Are we really gonna pretend like the terms of sale of a $60 piece of software and the terms of sale of an automobile are the same?
Okay.
When you agree to the end user license agreement on a piece of software, you're saying you understand that all of your examples above might happen. When they happen, your rights have not been violated. You have not been swindled. You do not need added protection.
If you're really upset about it, DON'T BUY SOFTWARE WITH SKETCHY EULA LANGUAGE.
If you want the industry to change, change it by speaking with your wallet. If you can't do that, and continue buying games (only to be disappointed down the road) how much do you actually care?
The problem is that AAA MMOs is more a oligopoly then a free market at the time, some publishers controls almost the entire market with some rather similar products.
Free market is awesome unless a few giants buy up almost everything (like EA, Activision, NC Soft and PWE). What we need is more diversity and no institute will fix that. The larger western publishers all seems uninterested in MMOs nowadays and ain't making zilch.
What we really need is a few competent developers that hasn't done MMOs before but have the know how and funding to make great games would get interested in the genre. Valve and Rockstar for example.
I half agree / half disagree,
The Big-Names invaded a market that they didn't understand, and they lost millions of dollars in the process. All of them (not counting Blizzard here of course, that's a different story) are leaving the genre because the players stopped paying them. The market rejected them.
The playerbase is still there though, the same size as before, only with nothing to put time and money into.
It's only a matter of time until your last paragraph happens, more devs will enter this genre already understanding the genre, understanding the effort required, and understanding what the players want. It will happen one company at a time, one player at a time, one dollar at a time, but eventually we'll see a 2nd golden age of MMOs.
Following your line of reasoning shouldn't we have someone at every place that servers alcohol deciding for you when it is enough? Let's deal with the smoking thing while we are at it. Maybe we should have a sleep monitor in every home, we all know that gamers are always running low on sleep. Some people are sex addicts, maybe we need monitors for that? Cause you know the one thing we can't have is people being responsible for their actions. We need others to monitor our lives, then we would all be happy successful people!
Actually in Australia it is an offence to serve alcohol to someone who is drunk. It is the responsibility of bar staff and liquor licensees to ensure this does not happen. Fairly sure this true in other countries too.
The rest of your post is fairly standard freeDUMB nonsense.
But to address the OP no we don't need an independent body to monitor game developers and their way of releasing products. Consumer law should be fine in dealing with any real abuses.
Following your line of reasoning shouldn't we have someone at every place that servers alcohol deciding for you when it is enough? Let's deal with the smoking thing while we are at it. Maybe we should have a sleep monitor in every home, we all know that gamers are always running low on sleep. Some people are sex addicts, maybe we need monitors for that? Cause you know the one thing we can't have is people being responsible for their actions. We need others to monitor our lives, then we would all be happy successful people!
Actually in Australia it is an offence to serve alcohol to someone who is drunk. It is the responsibility of bar staff and liquor licensees to ensure this does not happen. Fairly sure this true in other countries too.
The rest of your post is fairly standard freeDUMB nonsense.
True in the US too. Bar owners and managers are liable for their customers, and they have a legal responsibility to keep track of their consumption and cut them off if they are too intoxicated.
Not that they always do so...
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You do you OP... Meditate if that make you feel good... Me... I shake a rooster, does wonders to tension.
Beyond that i only really can reply to the title as the rest of the post is a garbled mess of opiniond.
No.... Not in any way shape or form do we need a external (or for that matter internal) agency to govern what is a good and bad game.... Heck... I hate noise with a passion... that does not make it any less of a artistical expression.
Also... How do you guarantee that this "independent" agency remain such.... It is childsplay to get enough people in there to start changing policy... Then before you know it... Activision have a ruling majority in what good games are... Do you want that...?
Nah... Let us the customers decide what we want and what we do not want. Provide financial help to small studios that produce new and innovating games instead... (but try to avoid creating a Uwe Bol situation)
I DONT think we need a governmental body to regulate game design, people need to be responsible for their own lives. I DO think we need something to put more consumer protection into the software (focusing on games) industry. Game makers currently get away with so much it is just silly. Compare the rights of the consumer when buying a single player game vs buying a car:
1. Imagine going into a car dealership and ordering a car with specific features and then after you pay for it, several of those features are removed. 2. Imagine you also buy that car and pay the whole thing off but then they tell you that you have no legal right to sell the car to anyone else. 3. Imagine after buying the car and signing a contract that the dealership can alter that contract and remove anything/everything from it to suit themselves, including the warranty.
The average new car in the U.S. costs over $30K and is an integral part of most peoples' lives. The average video game costs about $50 and is sheer entertainment. I don't think the same level of protection is called for.
I don't live in the US but i don't see the difference at all.
What does the price matter if someone is potentially being "ripped off"?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I DONT think we need a governmental body to regulate game design, people need to be responsible for their own lives. I DO think we need something to put more consumer protection into the software (focusing on games) industry. Game makers currently get away with so much it is just silly. Compare the rights of the consumer when buying a single player game vs buying a car:
1. Imagine going into a car dealership and ordering a car with specific features and then after you pay for it, several of those features are removed. 2. Imagine you also buy that car and pay the whole thing off but then they tell you that you have no legal right to sell the car to anyone else. 3. Imagine after buying the car and signing a contract that the dealership can alter that contract and remove anything/everything from it to suit themselves, including the warranty.
The average new car in the U.S. costs over $30K and is an integral part of most peoples' lives. The average video game costs about $50 and is sheer entertainment. I don't think the same level of protection is called for.
LOL, you totally miss the point. It isnt about how much you pay for something or what its purpose is, it is the fact that software developers are on a totally different playing field than any other industry. Name one other product or service that is allowed to advertise features that are not in the release product, are allowed to change the terms of the sale AFTER you sign/pay for it and do not allow you to resell it after you paid for it?
How about hair dryers? They average $20 and are only for cosmetic appearance. If they list 20 features on the box, you can take it back if it does not deliver them. You can also trade it to a friend if you dont like it. Do you like that analogy better?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I DONT think we need a governmental body to regulate game design, people need to be responsible for their own lives. I DO think we need something to put more consumer protection into the software (focusing on games) industry. Game makers currently get away with so much it is just silly. Compare the rights of the consumer when buying a single player game vs buying a car:
1. Imagine going into a car dealership and ordering a car with specific features and then after you pay for it, several of those features are removed. 2. Imagine you also buy that car and pay the whole thing off but then they tell you that you have no legal right to sell the car to anyone else. 3. Imagine after buying the car and signing a contract that the dealership can alter that contract and remove anything/everything from it to suit themselves, including the warranty.
Are we really gonna pretend like the terms of sale of a $60 piece of software and the terms of sale of an automobile are the same?
Okay.
When you agree to the end user license agreement on a piece of software, you're saying you understand that all of your examples above might happen. When they happen, your rights have not been violated. You have not been swindled. You do not need added protection.
If you're really upset about it, DON'T BUY SOFTWARE WITH SKETCHY EULA LANGUAGE.
If you want the industry to change, change it by speaking with your wallet. If you can't do that, and continue buying games (only to be disappointed down the road) how much do you actually care?
See post above for a better analogy since you totally missed the point and want to be extremely literal.
Also, please show me where I said I was "really upset" about it? I simply said I feel that software developers and not just game designers seem to get away with much more when it comes to their products rights. I guess when anyone here on this forum expresses an opinion you think they are really upset. You must think the world is full of very upset people.
Thanks for reading a bunch of stuff into my post that wasn't there and completely missing the point of the opinion I was trying to express.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
When you reach the endgame and it gets too grindy for your taste, you're supposed to quit and find another game. You're not supposed to just grind through it and complain about how horrible it is.
So by your logic "don't ever bother trying to change anything for the better". What exactly is wrong with you? If we did that blacks would still be slaves, women would still be chattel, cars wouldn't have airbags... use your brain. You try to change the things that matter or nothing will ever get better.
To the poster above,don't feel the need to warrant your feelings,it is quite alright. If you are unhappy or up[set with the way gaming has gone from a FUN past time to total GREED,lying nonsense,you SHOULD be upset.
I have been there since before gaming became popular,since before online and before it was all about money,so i have had to witness it full tilt. I can spot a GREEDY business angle a mile away now,been around too long to not notice it.
BDO is just a small worm in a large can of rotting scum,i spotted that garbage operation under the guise of Daum a mile away,while so many others were praising it like some god sent game.
My biggest fear is that i see or appears to me that people simply cannot think for themselves.if they see some website hype a game,they are all over it,can't wait to throw their money away.it is called 'MARKETING"...aka advertising,a billion dollar business and for good reason.It is a business that thrives on people that can't think for themselves,too bad really,it fuels deceiving,lies and manipulation and there are no laws securely in place to stop it.
Just look at what Chris Roberts is doing with his sidekick lawyer/accountant or what so many others are attempting to do ,which is exploit people for money.
I guarantee that eventually,laws will arrive,lying cheating businesses will have to pay dearly,problem is it is likely too far into the future.All we can do in the meantime is hope for a better place and for gaming to return a FUN past time and not about $$$$.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Free market is awesome unless a few giants buy up almost everything (like EA, Activision, NC Soft and PWE). What we need is more diversity and no institute will fix that. The larger western publishers all seems uninterested in MMOs nowadays and ain't making zilch.
What we really need is a few competent developers that hasn't done MMOs before but have the know how and funding to make great games would get interested in the genre. Valve and Rockstar for example.
The average new car in the U.S. costs over $30K and is an integral part of most peoples' lives. The average video game costs about $50 and is sheer entertainment. I don't think the same level of protection is called for.
I am not 100% on board with that. Roll a d20.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Okay.
When you agree to the end user license agreement on a piece of software, you're saying you understand that all of your examples above might happen. When they happen, your rights have not been violated. You have not been swindled. You do not need added protection.
If you're really upset about it, DON'T BUY SOFTWARE WITH SKETCHY EULA LANGUAGE.
If you want the industry to change, change it by speaking with your wallet. If you can't do that, and continue buying games (only to be disappointed down the road) how much do you actually care?
The Big-Names invaded a market that they didn't understand, and they lost millions of dollars in the process. All of them (not counting Blizzard here of course, that's a different story) are leaving the genre because the players stopped paying them. The market rejected them.
The playerbase is still there though, the same size as before, only with nothing to put time and money into.
It's only a matter of time until your last paragraph happens, more devs will enter this genre already understanding the genre, understanding the effort required, and understanding what the players want. It will happen one company at a time, one player at a time, one dollar at a time, but eventually we'll see a 2nd golden age of MMOs.
The rest of your post is fairly standard freeDUMB nonsense.
But to address the OP no we don't need an independent body to monitor game developers and their way of releasing products. Consumer law should be fine in dealing with any real abuses.
Not that they always do so...
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Beyond that i only really can reply to the title as the rest of the post is a garbled mess of opiniond.
No.... Not in any way shape or form do we need a external (or for that matter internal) agency to govern what is a good and bad game.... Heck... I hate noise with a passion... that does not make it any less of a artistical expression.
Also... How do you guarantee that this "independent" agency remain such.... It is childsplay to get enough people in there to start changing policy... Then before you know it... Activision have a ruling majority in what good games are... Do you want that...?
Nah... Let us the customers decide what we want and what we do not want. Provide financial help to small studios that produce new and innovating games instead... (but try to avoid creating a Uwe Bol situation)
This have been a good conversation
What does the price matter if someone is potentially being "ripped off"?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
How about hair dryers? They average $20 and are only for cosmetic appearance. If they list 20 features on the box, you can take it back if it does not deliver them. You can also trade it to a friend if you dont like it. Do you like that analogy better?
Also, please show me where I said I was "really upset" about it? I simply said I feel that software developers and not just game designers seem to get away with much more when it comes to their products rights. I guess when anyone here on this forum expresses an opinion you think they are really upset. You must think the world is full of very upset people.
Thanks for reading a bunch of stuff into my post that wasn't there and completely missing the point of the opinion I was trying to express.
If you are unhappy or up[set with the way gaming has gone from a FUN past time to total GREED,lying nonsense,you SHOULD be upset.
I have been there since before gaming became popular,since before online and before it was all about money,so i have had to witness it full tilt.
I can spot a GREEDY business angle a mile away now,been around too long to not notice it.
BDO is just a small worm in a large can of rotting scum,i spotted that garbage operation under the guise of Daum a mile away,while so many others were praising it like some god sent game.
My biggest fear is that i see or appears to me that people simply cannot think for themselves.if they see some website hype a game,they are all over it,can't wait to throw their money away.it is called 'MARKETING"...aka advertising,a billion dollar business and for good reason.It is a business that thrives on people that can't think for themselves,too bad really,it fuels deceiving,lies and manipulation and there are no laws securely in place to stop it.
Just look at what Chris Roberts is doing with his sidekick lawyer/accountant or what so many others are attempting to do ,which is exploit people for money.
I guarantee that eventually,laws will arrive,lying cheating businesses will have to pay dearly,problem is it is likely too far into the future.All we can do in the meantime is hope for a better place and for gaming to return a FUN past time and not about $$$$.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.