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Is this game ready?

QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,503
With my last Elsword character at the level cap and the complete inability of most MMORPGs to create a passable endgame, it's likely that I'll be looking for a new game soon.  I've got several games on my list to try, but am currently leaning toward Black Desert because:

a)  It's the only one on my list that has the potential to be really great, as opposed to merely pretty good, and
b)  It has got a lot of non-combat activities, making it considerably different from the almost pure combat Elsword that I'd be coming from.

But the game only launched earlier this year, and a lot of games are a disastrous mess at launch but largely get fixed later.  I generally like to wait until such games are fixed before picking them up.  So my basic question is:

1)  Is Black Desert ready to go now, or is it likely to be a far superior game several months from now to what it is today?

This isn't asking if you like the game on an absolute scale; I'd have to decide that for myself.  It's asking if they're still in the process of delivering major fixes with some yet to come obviously on the horizon, or whether the game is unlikely to be much better several months from now than it is today.

Some other questions:

2)  Has hacking been fixed entirely, or at least to the point that it's no worse than most other MMORPGs?

I saw news that there was a patch that broke hacks a while back, after the game had previously had severe problems with hackers.  But there's a difference between changing random things that temporarily break hacks until they come back a week or two later, versus adding server-side verification to make entire classes of hacks permanently impossible.  So are the hackers back, or does it seem fixed?

3)  How "pay to win" is the game?

I have no problem with paying a moderate amount for a game that I like.  I have no problem with players who pay $10 or $20 per month having huge advantages over people who pay absolutely nothing.  But if someone who pays $50/month has no hope of competing with someone who pays $100/month, that's a problem.  So where does Black Desert land on this scale?

4)  Is it easy to transfer money, goods, etc. between alts?

I tend to play a lot of alts in most MMORPGs, unless game mechanics let one character readily do everything.  There are a variety of ways to do the latter, from no classes at all as in Spiral Knights to FFXIV's armory system, but it sure looks like Black Desert doesn't.  So can I freely transfer things back and forth among alts (e.g., mail or shared bank), or is it a pain or even categorically impossible?

5)  Just how non-consensual is the PVP?

I've seen that beyond level 45, it's open PVP.  Does that mean that past level 45, you can expect to constantly be ganked?  Or is it pretty restrictive so that you'll virtually never get attacked if you don't want to be?  For example, in Uncharted Waters Online, about half the world is open PVP, but there are such severe penalties to attacking people that I lost in PVP exactly three times in about two years, and all three were because I was careless.

6)  How grindy does the game feel?

I gather that Black Desert has pretty slow leveling.  But there's a huge difference between having a huge amount of varied content to go through to level up versus having to kill 1000 of the same thing to level up.  So does Black Desert feel grindy, or is there plenty to do on the way?  Or does it start feeling grindy at some particular level?
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Comments

  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,149
    There are few things I can assure you about BDO and one of them is grinding is the game. The quests are shallow so you'll spend your time essentially killing stuff. If that's not a problem then you can risk that out of your list. 

    The graphics are great and I didn't saw any major compatibility problems in forums.

    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,051
    Quizzical said:

    1)  Is Black Desert ready to go now, or is it likely to be a far superior game several months from now to what it is today?

    I think it's "ready" and of course has room to grow.

    Some other questions:

    2)  Has hacking been fixed entirely, or at least to the point that it's no worse than most other MMORPGs?

    No idea but I haven't really heard any more about "hacking" so perhaps it's like other games.

    3)  How "pay to win" is the game?

    I don't really feel it is very pay to win but others will tell you that buying "x" will give you an extra 10% xp or some thing. You can buy more bag space and more storage space which can help so if you think that's pay to win then "it is".

    4)  Is it easy to transfer money, goods, etc. between alts?

    No idea sorry.

    5)  Just how non-consensual is the PVP?

    If you stay at 44 - 45 (don't remember the level) you can't get attacked. After that you can. I've rarely gotten ganked and if I do I just hit the "spawn wherever button" and change channels if I want to stay in the same place.

    6)  How grindy does the game feel?

    Well I like the game so that means most assuredly it is a grind game. I find the combat fun and fluid so there it is. If you just want to do the crafting/fishing/raising horse stuff then that's only grindy if you don't like doing that stuff.





  • peanutabcpeanutabc Member UncommonPosts: 129
    Quizzical said:
    With my last Elsword character at the level cap and the complete inability of most MMORPGs to create a passable endgame, it's likely that I'll be looking for a new game soon.  I've got several games on my list to try, but am currently leaning toward Black Desert because:

    a)  It's the only one on my list that has the potential to be really great, as opposed to merely pretty good, and
    b)  It has got a lot of non-combat activities, making it considerably different from the almost pure combat Elsword that I'd be coming from.

    But the game only launched earlier this year, and a lot of games are a disastrous mess at launch but largely get fixed later.  I generally like to wait until such games are fixed before picking them up.  So my basic question is:

    1)  Is Black Desert ready to go now, or is it likely to be a far superior game several months from now to what it is today?

    This isn't asking if you like the game on an absolute scale; I'd have to decide that for myself.  It's asking if they're still in the process of delivering major fixes with some yet to come obviously on the horizon, or whether the game is unlikely to be much better several months from now than it is today.

    Some other questions:

    2)  Has hacking been fixed entirely, or at least to the point that it's no worse than most other MMORPGs?

    I saw news that there was a patch that broke hacks a while back, after the game had previously had severe problems with hackers.  But there's a difference between changing random things that temporarily break hacks until they come back a week or two later, versus adding server-side verification to make entire classes of hacks permanently impossible.  So are the hackers back, or does it seem fixed?

    3)  How "pay to win" is the game?

    I have no problem with paying a moderate amount for a game that I like.  I have no problem with players who pay $10 or $20 per month having huge advantages over people who pay absolutely nothing.  But if someone who pays $50/month has no hope of competing with someone who pays $100/month, that's a problem.  So where does Black Desert land on this scale?

    4)  Is it easy to transfer money, goods, etc. between alts?

    I tend to play a lot of alts in most MMORPGs, unless game mechanics let one character readily do everything.  There are a variety of ways to do the latter, from no classes at all as in Spiral Knights to FFXIV's armory system, but it sure looks like Black Desert doesn't.  So can I freely transfer things back and forth among alts (e.g., mail or shared bank), or is it a pain or even categorically impossible?

    5)  Just how non-consensual is the PVP?

    I've seen that beyond level 45, it's open PVP.  Does that mean that past level 45, you can expect to constantly be ganked?  Or is it pretty restrictive so that you'll virtually never get attacked if you don't want to be?  For example, in Uncharted Waters Online, about half the world is open PVP, but there are such severe penalties to attacking people that I lost in PVP exactly three times in about two years, and all three were because I was careless.

    6)  How grindy does the game feel?

    I gather that Black Desert has pretty slow leveling.  But there's a huge difference between having a huge amount of varied content to go through to level up versus having to kill 1000 of the same thing to level up.  So does Black Desert feel grindy, or is there plenty to do on the way?  Or does it start feeling grindy at some particular level?

    BDO is a shallow game

    It's a "sandbox" that has nothing to do 

    daum are rather terrible too.

    zero balance

    zerg pvp

    handful of zones to grind to level efficiently at 50+ yet you'll want to be be 56 minimum to be competitive

    buy to play with subscription( new item shop thing that lasts 30 days and gives absurd bonuses )

    I claimed fraud and got my money back.

    Felt good.
  • PapasmervPapasmerv Member UncommonPosts: 63
    Quizzical said:
    With my last Elsword character at the level cap and the complete inability of most MMORPGs to create a passable endgame, it's likely that I'll be looking for a new game soon.  I've got several games on my list to try, but am currently leaning toward Black Desert because:

    a)  It's the only one on my list that has the potential to be really great, as opposed to merely pretty good, and
    b)  It has got a lot of non-combat activities, making it considerably different from the almost pure combat Elsword that I'd be coming from.

    But the game only launched earlier this year, and a lot of games are a disastrous mess at launch but largely get fixed later.  I generally like to wait until such games are fixed before picking them up.  So my basic question is:

    1)  Is Black Desert ready to go now, or is it likely to be a far superior game several months from now to what it is today?

    This isn't asking if you like the game on an absolute scale; I'd have to decide that for myself.  It's asking if they're still in the process of delivering major fixes with some yet to come obviously on the horizon, or whether the game is unlikely to be much better several months from now than it is today.

    Some other questions:

    2)  Has hacking been fixed entirely, or at least to the point that it's no worse than most other MMORPGs?

    I saw news that there was a patch that broke hacks a while back, after the game had previously had severe problems with hackers.  But there's a difference between changing random things that temporarily break hacks until they come back a week or two later, versus adding server-side verification to make entire classes of hacks permanently impossible.  So are the hackers back, or does it seem fixed?

    3)  How "pay to win" is the game?

    I have no problem with paying a moderate amount for a game that I like.  I have no problem with players who pay $10 or $20 per month having huge advantages over people who pay absolutely nothing.  But if someone who pays $50/month has no hope of competing with someone who pays $100/month, that's a problem.  So where does Black Desert land on this scale?

    4)  Is it easy to transfer money, goods, etc. between alts?

    I tend to play a lot of alts in most MMORPGs, unless game mechanics let one character readily do everything.  There are a variety of ways to do the latter, from no classes at all as in Spiral Knights to FFXIV's armory system, but it sure looks like Black Desert doesn't.  So can I freely transfer things back and forth among alts (e.g., mail or shared bank), or is it a pain or even categorically impossible?

    5)  Just how non-consensual is the PVP?

    I've seen that beyond level 45, it's open PVP.  Does that mean that past level 45, you can expect to constantly be ganked?  Or is it pretty restrictive so that you'll virtually never get attacked if you don't want to be?  For example, in Uncharted Waters Online, about half the world is open PVP, but there are such severe penalties to attacking people that I lost in PVP exactly three times in about two years, and all three were because I was careless.

    6)  How grindy does the game feel?

    I gather that Black Desert has pretty slow leveling.  But there's a huge difference between having a huge amount of varied content to go through to level up versus having to kill 1000 of the same thing to level up.  So does Black Desert feel grindy, or is there plenty to do on the way?  Or does it start feeling grindy at some particular level?
    I played since intensely since March 3rd and had a L53 Warrior who was working on finishing Ultimate and PRI gear(+16).  I just broke 300 gear score.  I'm going to guess this put me in the 80th percentile or so in terms of the growth curve.  I also was the GM of a 100 person "sub guild" as we had four 100 person guilds that comprised our Guild's participation in BDO.  I've subsequently quit for reasons I'll convey below in answering your questions.

    1) Yes, it's ready.  BDO has been out in KR for 2 years now and the localization efforts which launched at the end of February of this year are slowly catching the code base up to where KR is.  Basically there have been 2 expansions in Korea and the US/EU is now on expansion 2 part 1 of 3.  It should be completely caught up by years end.

    2) Hacking has largely been remedied by moving many components of code server side in a patch on June 22.  That said, several developers of hack s/w continued to sell their wares and the publisher Kakao(Daum) has now sued the largest of said developers in court in France.  The hacker site had to shut down their auth server (subscription model) and this is making an impact across the hacking community.

    3) Prior to the most recent patch on July 20, BDO bordered on having P2W elements in the cash shop.  Many things were sold to accelerate things that could be gained in game e.g. carry weight, inventory slots and bank space; yet it also sold things like Pets which provided skill up benefits and accelerated your ability to loot mobs and thus farm xp.  I spoke out against these items as in a competitive PvP game, typically those who level the fastest obtain a position of power that those behind them have a hard time obtaining.  e.g If the best xp is gained at location X and me and my buds are the top dogs on the server, then no one but us is going to be allowed to hunt there.

    There was one imbalancing item sold in the cash shop called the Ghilly suit.  This was designed in KR for gathering in the fields where if you looked like a bush, enemies might pass you by.  But the true benefit of the suit was not just the camouflage appearance, but the fact that it gave you anonymity.  Your name/guild could not be seen if you wore all 4 pieces of the Ghilly suit set.  In a open world competitive PvP game this was a strategic advantage.  It afforded those who could buy it an element of stealth.

    However effective July 20, and made reference to above in another response, Kakao(Daum) Games released an item into the cash shop from KR called the Value Pack.  Not only did this item provide xp boosts but it reduced the tax rate on sales in the marketplace by 30%.  This item in effect is like a subscription as to compete, you need it's benefits or will fall further and further behind.

    You see, in a level capped game, these items we are calling P2W would only accelerate a player growth to a point.  But in BDO there is no level cap, so advantages like this allow you to distance yourself from others who don't pay for the item.  So now BDO's revenue model is B2P for the game, P2W in the cash shop and Subscription via the Value Pack.     O_o.

    4) In BDO all characters you create are a part of the same family and share the same storage (which is separate in each city/town with a bank).  In addition, you can use the intra-city transport system to move items between banks, which in effect gives you another 100 slots of storage.  

    TBC...
    What every dev/pub should stand behind: "We're committed to creating a fair playing field for all players. You cannot gain gameplay advantage by spending real money in [INSERT GAME NAME]."
  • PapasmervPapasmerv Member UncommonPosts: 63
    (Continued...)


    5) Outside of any safe zone (village, town, city) from L45 on up, you can be attacked by any other player L45+ who wants to kill you.  They do so by Flagging up which then paints them Red and can be freely attacked by anyone else.  There is a Karma system which penalizes those who kill others outside of consentual pvp (Arena, Guild Wars, Node/Conquest Siege Wars).  However, the Karma penalty can be quickly burned off by farming mobs so it really isn't a deterrent.  Yet, ganking is pretty rare.  More often people will flag up and attack you if you encroach on their leveling spot as the best xp/loot drop mobs are designed bottlenecks to create conflict, e.g. Ogres. It's nothing like other open PvP games where if you are not in a person's guild they will attempt to kill you.  This could all change when the "cities of refuge" get released which allows a player to be perma red and yet still sell/repair and do all other forms of business in these haven cities.  Just know that those with negative Karma have chances to drop gear when they are killed.  Apparently in KR there are guilds who are by definition always Red, have very good PvPrs and exist even with those penalties in place.

    6) The game can be incredibly grindy especially if you don't want to work on the non-combat Life skills like gathering, crafting, fishing, hunting etc.  I hate to grind but didn't find it that bad as I did daily quests which give the grinding more of a purpose.  I know people who were able to grind a character to L53 in 2 days of 8h+ play per day by moving from locale to locale as they leveled.  There are a myriad of ways to level up in BDO, but the fastest is to grind.  That said BDO has traditional character levels and then it has skill levels.  Killing mobs in combat doesn't increase your Life skill levels.  Let's say someone new to the game hits L53 in 2 days doing nothing other than grinding mobs. He'll be a L53 and then need to grind more for cash so he can buy a level appropriate mount, gear, potions, horse food, buff food, etc. etc.  Those who complain about the grind sort of put themselves in that position by choice.  You can grind and buy everything already leveled up by others or you can do it yourself which takes time yet is much less grindy.

    Another aspect of the game is that it allows AFK skilling up in the life skillls like Fishing, Horse Taming and Processing.  I found this fantastic at the start but then it becomes a "never turn the game off and make sure you are always skilling up something when you can't play."  It became too much and really wasn't what I wanted.

    Yet the publisher of this game puts on their web Front Page...."Time is Money.  Get your Value Pack today!".

    They've created an infinite treadmill and are selling snake oil which will bring you closer to infinity than those who don't buy it.  And this is why I have quit BDO.
    What every dev/pub should stand behind: "We're committed to creating a fair playing field for all players. You cannot gain gameplay advantage by spending real money in [INSERT GAME NAME]."
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,049
    If you have a chace to play on Korean servers - do it - best patches, best community, best GM/customer service and best performing servers. 

    The problem with BD in NA is largely DAUM - example yesterday the game was inaccessible for 4 hours, like no logins worked - on a Saturday!

    There were threads and twitter posts like "Daum are you even aware the game is basically down?" - zero response for hours.

    In general the server performance and lack of support in NA is probably the biggest problem with the game, aside shoddy NA patches that always seem half broken in actual implementation. 


    The actual game is pretty good, there's lots of ancillary systems that are pretty cool and totally worth trying out even if you don't stay past a month.

    PvE is a complete faceroll - aoe,aoe,aoe x infinity 

    The game is all about killing 10s of thousands of the same mobs over and over again for weeks at max level.

    Open world PvP got totally ruined in NA with removal of XP penalty on death so IMO the current state if PvP in NA/EU sucks - it's non existent. 

    Node wars are also a snore fest due to defenders just focusing on rebuilding structures and avoiding a loss - huge loophole that needs fixing. 

    On some servers the nodes are not even contested
    as the  remaining playerbase is spread too thin across too many chanels on too many servers - so no wars even happen.

    What Daum needs is a single 20 channel server like in Korea.

    Bottom line - good game but Daum West made some terrible decisions in how they localized, patch, host and support the game.

    Still worth $30 though



  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,049
    @Papasmerv at the time of your quitting how many active players remained in your guild?
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,503
    Papasmerv said:
    However effective July 20, and made reference to above in another response, Kakao(Daum) Games released an item into the cash shop from KR called the Value Pack.  Not only did this item provide xp boosts but it reduced the tax rate on sales in the marketplace by 30%.  This item in effect is like a subscription as to compete, you need it's benefits or will fall further and further behind.

    You see, in a level capped game, these items we are calling P2W would only accelerate a player growth to a point.  But in BDO there is no level cap, so advantages like this allow you to distance yourself from others who don't pay for the item.  So now BDO's revenue model is B2P for the game, P2W in the cash shop and Subscription via the Value Pack.     O_o.
    Is that subscription account-wide, or is it per character?  I have no problem with paying a $15/month subscription for a game I like.  But if it's $15/month for each of 8 or 10 characters or whatever, that's a problem.

    Otherwise, it mostly sounds good.  On (5), it sounds like they're trying to make it so that people don't constantly get ganked if they're trying to avoid PVP, even at the high levels.  Exactly how the incentives work can change as games update, but it sure sounds like if it turns into PVE players getting killed every 10 minutes, they'll act to restrict it.

    A game that has a ton of content can be made grindy by people who ignore 99% of the content and just focus on repeating 1% endlessly.  But that's a problem of players, not game mechanics, even if that 1% gives double the reward of average same-level content.  What is a problem is if the game doesn't have much content, so that grinding some tiny amount of content endlessly is all that there is to do.  Some games kind of run out of content at some level, but if there's enough to do up to that level, the game can at least be fun for a while.

    I'm not really worried about whether participating in the endgame is any good.  I generally assume that it will be time to quit upon reaching the endgame, which is why I said at the start that I'll probably quit Elsword soon.  There are the rare exceptions (Guild Wars 1, Spiral Knights... and that's all I can think of), but if a game is fun for some months until endgame, that's good.  All that I really hope for in an endgame is that it refrains from wrecking a bunch of otherwise good lower level content.
  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,200
    edited August 2016
    If you want to be a 1337 top end PvPer you may have some truly legit complaints.  Other than that I can't recommend the game enough.  Go for it Quizz.  Papa answered most of your questions honestly, but it sounds like he is a PvPer that is ultimately frustrated about not "catching up".  If you don't give two craps about PvP, go for it.  Also ganking seems to be quite rare.

    Also the new ninja class is insane.  It is the closest thing to god mode that I've ever played in an MMO.  It may ruin you for other games though.  Although I did play a non twink first character that was much less powerful..so that may be distorting my view of the ninja a bit.
  • NyghthowlerNyghthowler Member UncommonPosts: 263
    Quizzical said:
    Papasmerv said:
    However effective July 20, and made reference to above in another response, Kakao(Daum) Games released an item into the cash shop from KR called the Value Pack.  Not only did this item provide xp boosts but it reduced the tax rate on sales in the marketplace by 30%.  This item in effect is like a subscription as to compete, you need it's benefits or will fall further and further behind.

    You see, in a level capped game, these items we are calling P2W would only accelerate a player growth to a point.  But in BDO there is no level cap, so advantages like this allow you to distance yourself from others who don't pay for the item.  So now BDO's revenue model is B2P for the game, P2W in the cash shop and Subscription via the Value Pack.     O_o.
    Is that subscription account-wide, or is it per character?  I have no problem with paying a $15/month subscription for a game I like.  But if it's $15/month for each of 8 or 10 characters or whatever, that's a problem.

    Otherwise, it mostly sounds good.  On (5), it sounds like they're trying to make it so that people don't constantly get ganked if they're trying to avoid PVP, even at the high levels.  Exactly how the incentives work can change as games update, but it sure sounds like if it turns into PVE players getting killed every 10 minutes, they'll act to restrict it.

    A game that has a ton of content can be made grindy by people who ignore 99% of the content and just focus on repeating 1% endlessly.  But that's a problem of players, not game mechanics, even if that 1% gives double the reward of average same-level content.  What is a problem is if the game doesn't have much content, so that grinding some tiny amount of content endlessly is all that there is to do.  Some games kind of run out of content at some level, but if there's enough to do up to that level, the game can at least be fun for a while.

    I'm not really worried about whether participating in the endgame is any good.  I generally assume that it will be time to quit upon reaching the endgame, which is why I said at the start that I'll probably quit Elsword soon.  There are the rare exceptions (Guild Wars 1, Spiral Knights... and that's all I can think of), but if a game is fun for some months until endgame, that's good.  All that I really hope for in an endgame is that it refrains from wrecking a bunch of otherwise good lower level content.

    The benefits of the Value Pack are account wide, useable by every character in your Family.
    You also receive Loyalty tokens each day you log in. These are redeemable in the Pearl shop in game.

    BDO isn't the Second Coming, or anything revolutionary. But it is pretty damn fun, IMO; and I suck at PvP...
    I've been playing every day for 3 1/2 months or so.

    1. You have the right to shut the hell up.
    2. You have the right to a opinion just as soon as I tell you what it is.
    3. You have the right to die quietly or kicking and screaming. It doesn't really make a difference because you're dead either way.

  • DarkestOverlordDarkestOverlord Member UncommonPosts: 453
    NOOO  STOP !! HALT  DONT PLAY BDO !!  STOP IT !! NOW !!  DO NOT ENTER !!!  AARG LEAVE NOW !! WARNING NO BDO !!




  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,237
    edited August 2016
    I think the trick in BDO is its probably a good game to take your time, explore the various gameplay elements and not obsessively grind npcs all day, at least if you aren't concerned with the PVP endgame.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 7,830
    peanutabc said:

    I claimed fraud and got my money back.

    Felt good.
    No you didn't.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,589
    Quizzical said:

    1)  Is Black Desert ready to go now, or is it likely to be a far superior game several months from now to what it is today?

    It's almost up to date with the Korean version now, and there have already been many improvements to the game since launch. Of course all MMOs are forever a WIP. But yes, I think it's in a pretty good state right now.

    Some other questions:

    2)  Has hacking been fixed entirely, or at least to the point that it's no worse than most other MMORPGs?

    They moved a bunch of things server side, instead of client side. Which seems to have gotten rid of the scumbags.

    3)  How "pay to win" is the game?

    On the low end of the scale. You don't have any cheesy store items to bypass the RNG, or to buy items to enhance your gear with. There are things to prevent XP loss and give XP boosts however, like in just about every MMO that has a cash shop.

    4)  Is it easy to transfer money, goods, etc. between alts?

    Ridiculously easy. Your warehouse (bank) is account wide, and there is no bound gear. You can give your fully enhanced armor and weapons to your newbie alt. Of course the weapons may not be suited for them if they are a different class. (Warriors and Valkyries both use Longswords for example, so they'd have no issue with transferring, however if your "main" is a warrior, and your newbie alt a berzerker who uses axes... obviously you'll have to invest into some weapons for him, even though he can wear everything else and be uber twinked for the low level content)

    5)  Just how non-consensual is the PVP?

    Between the karma penalties, and the fact that they can't force you to lose xp on dying anymore (no more XP loss from being PKed), getting ganked is actually pretty rare. The only times it'll happen is if someone wants to chase you out of their grinding spots (at end game)

    6)  How grindy does the game feel?

    It gets extremely grindy once you hit the softcap. I think atm that's level 54. Basically you'll be at a level where you can pretty much do anything in game at that point though, especially if you've upgraded your gear properly. The main reason to keep leveling is for PvP then.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    edited August 2016
    Quizzical said:
    With my last Elsword character at the level cap and the complete inability of most MMORPGs to create a passable endgame, it's likely that I'll be looking for a new game soon.  I've got several games on my list to try, but am currently leaning toward Black Desert because:

    a)  It's the only one on my list that has the potential to be really great, as opposed to merely pretty good, and
    b)  It has got a lot of non-combat activities, making it considerably different from the almost pure combat Elsword that I'd be coming from.

    But the game only launched earlier this year, and a lot of games are a disastrous mess at launch but largely get fixed later.  I generally like to wait until such games are fixed before picking them up.  So my basic question is:

    1)  Is Black Desert ready to go now, or is it likely to be a far superior game several months from now to what it is today?

    This isn't asking if you like the game on an absolute scale; I'd have to decide that for myself.  It's asking if they're still in the process of delivering major fixes with some yet to come obviously on the horizon, or whether the game is unlikely to be much better several months from now than it is today.

    Some other questions:

    2)  Has hacking been fixed entirely, or at least to the point that it's no worse than most other MMORPGs?

    I saw news that there was a patch that broke hacks a while back, after the game had previously had severe problems with hackers.  But there's a difference between changing random things that temporarily break hacks until they come back a week or two later, versus adding server-side verification to make entire classes of hacks permanently impossible.  So are the hackers back, or does it seem fixed?

    3)  How "pay to win" is the game?

    I have no problem with paying a moderate amount for a game that I like.  I have no problem with players who pay $10 or $20 per month having huge advantages over people who pay absolutely nothing.  But if someone who pays $50/month has no hope of competing with someone who pays $100/month, that's a problem.  So where does Black Desert land on this scale?

    4)  Is it easy to transfer money, goods, etc. between alts?

    I tend to play a lot of alts in most MMORPGs, unless game mechanics let one character readily do everything.  There are a variety of ways to do the latter, from no classes at all as in Spiral Knights to FFXIV's armory system, but it sure looks like Black Desert doesn't.  So can I freely transfer things back and forth among alts (e.g., mail or shared bank), or is it a pain or even categorically impossible?

    5)  Just how non-consensual is the PVP?

    I've seen that beyond level 45, it's open PVP.  Does that mean that past level 45, you can expect to constantly be ganked?  Or is it pretty restrictive so that you'll virtually never get attacked if you don't want to be?  For example, in Uncharted Waters Online, about half the world is open PVP, but there are such severe penalties to attacking people that I lost in PVP exactly three times in about two years, and all three were because I was careless.

    6)  How grindy does the game feel?

    I gather that Black Desert has pretty slow leveling.  But there's a huge difference between having a huge amount of varied content to go through to level up versus having to kill 1000 of the same thing to level up.  So does Black Desert feel grindy, or is there plenty to do on the way?  Or does it start feeling grindy at some particular level?
    1. Yeah most of the kinks have been worked out.  Daum has not been vocal about what exactly they did to stop hacking, but all the high profile hacking has completely stopped.  There might be some hacking and botting (Daum just filed a lawsuit against the major bot maker, but I haven't actually seen bots that I recognize as bots in the game).  Overall it feels about as hack/bot free as any AAA mmo.

    2. See 1.  The only thing really missing from the game is awakenings, which you get access to at 56, which turn your class into a new super-powered type class.  We should be getting those in August I believe.  They've held off on them for us until they were all ready at once rather than a staggered release of them like they did in other regions, to prevent balance issues for classes that didn't have awakenings yet.

    3. It's not p2w, and they make a concious effort to prevent p2w for our region.  There really is no way to break the bank and buy your way to the top.  You can get some small edges with money, but nothing game breaking.

    4. It's easier in BDO than any MMO I've played.  All alts have access to the same bank and can even wear the same armor (even between classes).  This means if you have a set of +15 armor, you can plop it on a low level alt of a different class and they can wear it.  Weapons are a different story because every class uses a different weapon.

    5. It's purely non-consenual after 45, however ganking rarely happens.  Gankers lose karma and the gankies no longer lose any xp (this was changed in a recent patch much to the chagrin of gankers).

    6. Game is pretty darn grindy.  It actually literally has no foreseeable end with level and gear progression, which is a feature but can also make some feel pretty burned out.  There are no dungeons at endgame so the main way you progress is by grinding, often in a group.

    That being said the quests, which you really don't have to do, are not very grindy compared to many MMOs.  Depends on the quest, and some numbers can get quite high, but generally the number required to complete the quest is relatively low.
    Post edited by holdenhamlet on
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    DMKano said:
    If you have a chace to play on Korean servers - do it - best patches, best community, best GM/customer service and best performing servers. 

    The problem with BD in NA is largely DAUM - example yesterday the game was inaccessible for 4 hours, like no logins worked - on a Saturday!

    There were threads and twitter posts like "Daum are you even aware the game is basically down?" - zero response for hours.

    In general the server performance and lack of support in NA is probably the biggest problem with the game, aside shoddy NA patches that always seem half broken in actual implementation. 


    The actual game is pretty good, there's lots of ancillary systems that are pretty cool and totally worth trying out even if you don't stay past a month.

    PvE is a complete faceroll - aoe,aoe,aoe x infinity 

    The game is all about killing 10s of thousands of the same mobs over and over again for weeks at max level.

    Open world PvP got totally ruined in NA with removal of XP penalty on death so IMO the current state if PvP in NA/EU sucks - it's non existent. 

    Node wars are also a snore fest due to defenders just focusing on rebuilding structures and avoiding a loss - huge loophole that needs fixing. 

    On some servers the nodes are not even contested
    as the  remaining playerbase is spread too thin across too many chanels on too many servers - so no wars even happen.

    What Daum needs is a single 20 channel server like in Korea.

    Bottom line - good game but Daum West made some terrible decisions in how they localized, patch, host and support the game.

    Still worth $30 though



    Does anything about his post make you think he'd want to roll on servers that encourage p2w ganking?

    I mean, I guess that's what you're into, but why advise him to roll there?

    Patches are a little borked but certainly nothing like what I've seen in other MMOs, and unlike them it's excusable here because they have to alter them for our version.

    Servers are a little meh, they could be improved for sure, but other than that I don't see any reason to prefer the Korean version over ours-

    Unless your entire joy from the game comes from causing people to lose hours of their time when you gank them, and the ability to p2w to ensure you do it.
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,589
    Does anything about his post make you think he'd want to roll on servers that encourage p2w ganking?

    I mean, I guess that's what you're into, but why advise him to roll there?

    That's just Kano's ever-present desire to stick it to Daum talking again. Because they removed the xp loss on death that he adored so much. =P

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • PhryPhry Member EpicPosts: 10,403
    I am playing BDO as mostly PVE, its not that i am avoiding PVP, its just that i have little reason to get involved in it, most of my activities in the game revolve around Trading, i have a Noble Wagon and a Fishing boat, i regularly take timber crates that i make in Calpheon, via wagon to Velia, where i put them on my fishing boat and sail to Ancoda, its worth several million a trip, as a result i am normally the number 1 trader on the channel i use Croxus-Balenos C1, having reached Master 3 in trading.
    What you do in BDO really depends on your interests, whether you get involved in PVP is pretty much optional, i've been attacked a few times, very few times tbh, ganking is not really a thing in the game, which is a bit surprising, though the karma system really does punish those who do, and even buying items in the cash shop that boost karma recovery rate, it takes hours of grinding mobs to recover karma from a single PK, negative karma status results in players being killed on sight by other players, and by town guards, which i think is the reason very little PVP takes place outside of wars between guilds, and node conquests.
    Quests are really about gaining contrib xp, though for crafting there are numerous quest trains that unlock different skills/recipes.
    End game, surprisingly, doesn't begin at level 45, or even 50, but as soon as you finish the basic tutorials, as equipment doesn't have level restrictions other than you need to be at least level 8 to use things.
    Combat is surprisingly easy though, and is fairly intuitive, although its technically an action combat game, you don't have to be at all accurate with aiming, most things seem to hit automatically if you aim in the rough direction of your target(s).
    So far i see no reason to think that the game will not continue to grow, the previous hacking problems seem to have been dealt with, and RMT'ers are still crying in their beers, win/win really B)

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 7,830

    That being said the quests, which you really don't have to do, are not very grindy compared to many MMOs.  Depends on the quest, and some numbers can get quite high, but generally the number required to complete the quest is relatively low.
    To be perfectly honest, you will have to do quests if you want contribution points.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    edited August 2016

    That being said the quests, which you really don't have to do, are not very grindy compared to many MMOs.  Depends on the quest, and some numbers can get quite high, but generally the number required to complete the quest is relatively low.
    To be perfectly honest, you will have to do quests if you want contribution points.
    Yep that is true, but it's not like most MMOs where if you don't do all the quests in order you can't progress.  And frankly I don't use any contribution points other than the storage box in kusha.  I had a node system set up but it was more annoyance than I was willing to bother with.  I really should be using contribution and a trade system but damn I'm just too lazy to work out the details of the best spots and do the quests for more contribution points.  I pretty much just fish and grind and do gvg.
  • peanutabcpeanutabc Member UncommonPosts: 129
    Long story short with BDO.

    Eastern MMORPG are still horrible.

    FFXIV is the only decent one.
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,589
    peanutabc said:
    Long story short with BDO.

    Eastern MMORPG are still horrible.

    FFXIV is the only decent one.
    Funny. I found FFXIV to be as generic of an MMO as they get. >.>

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 4,876
    I like the game a lot. I am still learning and I am relatively new but in the evening on my server the streets of Calpheon and Heidel team with wagons running through them on their way to making a trade run. It's a glorious sight to behold. So many different wagons and colours and the horses, every one looks different. It is really a living world with workers running along carrying their load or traders with backpacks and the day and night cycle helps too.

    I do agree that I spend a lot of time soloing and there is little call for group activity but I think the node wars have really made working together a need. Combat is fun but hardly challenging I do enjoy watching the skills though. The combat animations are very well done.

    Can't tell you much since I am relatively new but I really think you should play the game. It is easily the most interesting game I have come across lately.

  • fearufearu Member UncommonPosts: 192
    BDO endgame?

    Lol.
  • jusomdudejusomdude Member UncommonPosts: 2,677
    I don't like the gameplay/controls the quasi action and mmo control scheme just fails for me and imo is clunky.
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