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Has CCP business-plan become one of profiteering off paranoia, greed and malevolence?

SoaringBarnacleSoaringBarnacle Member UncommonPosts: 34

Old 2003 player here. Short story long, New Eden started to become less immersive and more grief-friendly around 2006 onwards. Remember Lofty29? yeah that guy, who pretended he wanted to help PvEers and just griefed them. Took a while before CCP added a warning when forming a fleet... this downright POS of an online gamer was the first hero of the Schadenfreude-harvesting griefers, who recently revered Erotica1.

Did CCP watch all the griefers getting secondary accounts to meta-game the game? Infiltration, false friendship (lonely nerds are gullible) and then stealing the mark's assets, pretending to help while waiting to grief, scamming, impersonating etc. "Power of 2"...

Let's cut to the chase Paranoia: you need multiple accounts to put eyes in neighboring systems, whether you are a lowsec/0.0 carebear or an edgy gatecamper

Greed: just read that some guy has a 200+ SP account farming operation going on, and that players routinely know others who have a couple dozens

Malevolence: see second paragraph

This game has become a cesspool of sociopaths and their masochist prey, and they all need multiple accounts (at least two in total, so to scout). CCP coddles griefing, as it brings a lot of revenue in the form of secondary accounts (and remember that PLEXes are bought anyway at some point)






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Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,576
    edited July 2016
    Do you even still play EVE Bro?  Or is your post based on what you are "reading", because if so you know what they say about believing in it.

    I started in 2007, so I'm not aware of the PVE "paradise" that might have existed before then..

    Since the day I joined it's been a harsh world, I got my 2nd account within a month of the first, and currently have 6 active that I pay real cash money for. (annually no less)

    What you say is true, there's rampant scamming, griefing in high sec, etc, but a smart player learns to avoid all of this, and not always before being a "victim" a few times.   (has happened to me a few times)

    Also true, you do need to scout, but you know, your friends can do that for you, I frequently run my characters as scouts for friends who only have one account.  I also light Cynos for other folks jump freighters and what not.

    Does EVE have more sociopaths per 1000 than other games? Maybe, but they are still a minute fraction of the total player base and overall, I still feel EVE has one of the best communities out there.  Trick is, you have to become part of one.

    Is CCP a greedy, capitalistic organization trying to make money from it's player base? Absolutely, and I wouldn't expect anything less, if you understand business you know all good companies look out for the bottom line, or they don't last long.

    And it isn't paranoia if everyone really is trying to kill you..... which they are of course.  B)

    Oh yeah, one more thing, "Carebear" living in null sec, and prospering just nicely thank you.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,785
    edited July 2016
    Retracted my question.
    Never mind
    Post edited by GeezerGamer on
  • SoaringBarnacleSoaringBarnacle Member UncommonPosts: 34
    And herewe have Kyleran, the usual CCP apologist, who can't even properly downplay the stubborn facts I laid out on the opening post.

    He even proves the multi-account scam, as he's got 6 of them: you can't do shit in this game if you don't have several. Will your friends scout for you? of course they will, provided they're the rarest breed ingame (those who enjoy unlucrative cooperative play) or RL friends.

    But why should anyone depend on other gamers when you just can run multiple accounts?
    But hey it's not P2W!

    Thank you for agreeing that CCP's business plan relies on greed, paranoia and malevolence. Do you think that in a daily terrorist bombing world, we need alcoholic fucktards providing toxic entertainment  and profiteering off angry sociopathic neckbeards?

    Then there's Goons and their RMT... deep the rabbit hole goes...
  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 1,249
    edited July 2016
    Been playing on and off since may 2003 but as of late I really don't have much time but anyho, yes there has been asshole from the very beginning of EVE, anyone remembered tankCEO?, he were as far as i know the first asshole back in the day he, scammed people, he tricked noobs, he podded you for lolz and all sorts of things, but here is the trick and this actual works also IRL.
    Dont fall for easy money as the saying goes, if It's to good to be true.
    I never fallen for any scam I have never scammed anyone but I have griefed allot in low sec, even got death threats from psycho players.
    I myself have lost more ships then I can count, in fleet battles, drunkruns, got jumped  in lowsec, stuck in a warpbubble, pick a fight with the wrong guy, poor fitting ect you name it.

    I have never been rude in chat or against other players I never gloated at someone I blew up, hell I even at one time long ago gave a poor chap 100 mill ( alot of isk in the old days) for feeling sorry for him, some had lured him into 0.0 for easy money I saw a easy target and when he explained it i gave him the money for loss of asset, he never came back to 0.0 after that.

    But all in all, EVEs community is an awesome group, only a small % of it are griefers, scammers and asshole, and if you are dumb enough falling for it, well then you have learned a valuable lesson and hopefully don't make the same mistake twice.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,912
    Ah, the usual anti-EVE diatribe, lol

    You don't need multiple accounts to play EVE and enjoy it.

    Having 2 accounts will however help a great deal if you're going to attempt to mostly "solo" EVE. Are you meant to solo EVE, or does your preferred playstyle require you to use "workarounds" to play the game in a way that it was not designed to be primarily played ?

    Don't blame CCP if there are players that insist on finding ways to multibox, every MMO ever made has had those people.

    Don't blame CCP if PVP-oriented games attract unsavoury characters. All PVP games have that problem.

    As in any MMO, there's a small percentage of loudmouthed, attention-seeking players in EVE. The majority of EVE players are normal, nice people though.


  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,932
    EVE is a place for greed and danger, alliances and betrayals, taking risks and being worried.

    It is not, and it should not be, a happy rainbow unicorn land.
     
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,309

    Old 2003 player here. Short story long, New Eden started to become less immersive and more grief-friendly around 2006 onwards. Remember Lofty29? yeah that guy, who pretended he wanted to help PvEers and just griefed them. Took a while before CCP added a warning when forming a fleet... this downright POS of an online gamer was the first hero of the Schadenfreude-harvesting griefers, who recently revered Erotica1.

    Erotica1 was more than two years ago now.  Please name another psychopath like him since.  Not only that, but he was shut down by EVE community outrage, not held up as a shining example of our community.  Ripard Teg, I a guy that I flew with for several years in Rote Kapelle and know very well, wrote a blog on Jester's Trek calling him out.  Once the general public knew what this psychotic asshole was doing, there was an outcry to ban him, and CCP did just that.

    Did CCP watch all the griefers getting secondary accounts to meta-game the game? Infiltration, false friendship (lonely nerds are gullible) and then stealing the mark's assets, pretending to help while waiting to grief, scamming, impersonating etc. "Power of 2"..

    This is absurd reductionism.  Hundreds of normal, well-adjusted players have multiple accounts for many different reasons.  I currently only run two accounts.  They are both around 180 million skillpoints and can do just about anything I want them to do.  One makes me craptons of money and the other is my pure combat character.  I have another friend who has six accounts and he runs a solo mining operation in null sec that nets him billions per week pulling in ABC minerals.

    Multiple accounts is in no way indicative of griefing.  Yes, some people get multiple accounts to infiltrate and steal assets, but that's part of real life too.  It's just that EVE doesn't shelter you from it and smack enterprising players on the hand for playing smart.  I've had upwards of four different accounts in alliances that I was at war with just so I could read their chat and intel channels and sit in their voice comms.  Knowing how they plan on countering my attack is precious knowledge.

    Greed: just read that some guy has a 200+ SP account farming operation going on, and that players routinely know others who have a couple dozens

    Greed is laughable in a game like EVE.  Of course there's greed, it's a capitalist paradise.  If you aren't greedy then you'll never have enough ISK to afford the things you want.  It doesn't have to be excessive, soul-crushing greed and I've honestly not seen many people like that.  However, you better get your rear out there and compete with others to make some income.

    This game has become a cesspool of sociopaths and their masochist prey, and they all need multiple accounts (at least two in total, so to scout). CCP coddles griefing, as it brings a lot of revenue in the form of secondary accounts (and remember that PLEXes are bought anyway at some point)

    This is one of the most discouraging EVE myths that's making the rounds out in ignorant land.  EVE has one of the most friendly and helpful communities of players that I've ever had the pleasure of flying with.  There are entire corporations who center their gameplay around doing nothing but helping people learn the game.

    Name one guild in a themepark game that does nothing all day long but give training classes to new players.  Just one, cause I've never heard of that kind of altruism outside of EVE.

    Once you become an enjoyable rank-and-file member of a good, non-toxic corporation, then you will feel like family around them.  Yes, there are some toxic corporations and alliances that I would stay far away from like CODE and Psychotic Tendencies, but the majority just want to have fun with others.
  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,802
    Welcome to EVE... ^^ There are two rules that anyone who has played for awhile remembers.  Rule One, Trust No One.  Rule Two, Never fly what you can't afford to replace.  Keep those in mind, and your EVE experience will be much less painful.
    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,052
    In my 3 months I actively played the game, I have to say the community was very decent. Yes, I got attacked and killed numerous times, when running trade routes. That's not toxicity, that is open world PvP.

    The community is night and day, compared to games like League of Legends, where every second player had alleged intercourse with my mother.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,825
    2004 player here.

    You CAN play EVE with only one account. If you need more, get some friends in game. It HELPS to have more accounts, but its not absolutely necessary.

    Is EVE a nice, friendly game for casual gamers and newbies ? HELL NO !

    Is EVE a multi-facetted, always challenging game ? HELL YES !


    Have fun
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,648
    Griefing and scamming in a computer game does not make an individual a sociopath or a psychopath.

    Being a PP or SP does not mean that you are necessarily a "bad" person.
  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,358
    Been playing eve casually since 2003. Still the coolest friendliest community for a game I have ever seen. And that is even taking the Goons into account...
  • MyriaMyria Member UncommonPosts: 699
    Wraithone said:
    Welcome to EVE... ^^ There are two rules that anyone who has played for awhile remembers.  Rule One, Trust No One.  Rule Two, Never fly what you can't afford to replace.  Keep those in mind, and your EVE experience will be much less painful.
    Rule One is Eve's biggest problem, IMHO.

    Even more than most MMOs, Eve is boring as hell to play solo for any extended period of time.

    While in the many years I've played Eve on-and-off (mostly off, but, oddly, it's one I go back to a few times every year) I've never actually been killed by another player and only been shot at once (near a newbie station early on, the person firing on me was obliterated before I'd figured out what the hell was going on), I've seen more than enough stupid crap, assholery, obvious scam attempts, and just general idiocy to convince me that rule one is best, only, followed by having nothing whatsoever to do with anyone else in that game.

    Trust no one being the cardinal rule of a game mostly dependent on playing with others for fun is pretty much what leads to the kind of community Eve has. Sadly, CCP is so beholden to said community that at this point there's nothing they can do to fix it, so... Meh. Any snake that eats its own tail is eventually going to run out of tail. It's pretty clear CCP knows that,  but their efforts to start something else have no far been pretty pathetic.

    As for Rule Two, it is what always makes me shake my head when CCP gives out a special edition/anniversary/or what have you ships. I have a bunch of them in various hangers, which they'll never leave. They can't be replaced and, because of that, flying one is the equivalent of wearing a "Kick Me!" sign. Really, what's the point? Eternal ship spinning seems a sad fate for some of 'em.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,912
    Myria said:
    ... 
    ...

    Trust no one being the cardinal rule of a game mostly dependent on playing with others for fun is pretty much what leads to the kind of community Eve has. ...
    Yup, it leads to a community where people that you can trust become very good friends ! 

    Of course, it's not possible to "trust no one" in a game that relies heavily on grouped play. The correct motto is "Trust no one until you have gotten to know them". It may take a considerable amount of time to "get to know" people in a MMO though, and most new players do not understand that you need to fly with someone for a few RL weeks (at least) before you can get to know them in EVE.

    Once you've found a good corp in EVE, you'll trust them with your "life". You have to. But you don't just do that at the drop of a hat...

    "Trust no strangers and be wary of your acquaintances".
  • krulerkruler Member UncommonPosts: 589
    My biggest PVP gripe at the moment is more with the damned EvE launcher being a dick.

    Other than that waiting for the Rorqual changes and the shizstorm thats going entail, so reference greed and paranoia and multi accounts, Rorqual pilots are going to be ticking them boxes fast. 

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,878
    Eve is open world PvP and if you go into any open world PvP game without doing your homework than may God have mercy on your soul.  If a player does their homework first they will find friendly Corps who will walk new players through the game, teach them everything they need to know and they will have a good experience.  After this learning process they are free to do what ever they want.  If the game has one main fault it would be not letting New players know about the Corps that help new people.  They have to have a friend that will tell them or do their own research, read the forums and other dedicated sites to learn about the game, before you jump in.  Even pirate sites are open and anyone can read about what makes players easy prey as they love to tell the tales of how they destroy or blackmail or trick the unknowing.  It is what it is, just be prepared and you'll do OK.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    edited July 2016
    Myria said:
    Even more than most MMOs, Eve is boring as hell to play solo for any extended period of time.
    That can be said or disagreed with about any game.

    Your premise is false, it is just your opinion.


    Your second mistake is you take it all literally and ultimately. It does not imply you have not to trust anyone whatsoever, just keep in mind the game involves a loss so don't be stupid with your assets. It is what gives trust weight, a value, so strong bonds and friendships can be created.

    The need for trust scales with risk.

    You risk little, you may have many "casual" friends like in any other game but if you want to do something "bigger", you have to invest into it.

    You are just scratching the surface of the game, focusing on one negative aspect of the game design and it's mechanics.

    The game is founded on loss and it brings negatives as well as positives, at the same time it is undeniably very strong driving factor.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Been playing Eve Online, off and on since feb 2004, still think it has one of the best communities of any game i've ever played.
    You get out of it what you put into it, an old adage perhaps, but i think it holds true for all MMO's, not just Eve.
    I don't treat other players like crap in game, and so far they haven't treated me like that either, not that i haven't been involved in war dec's or just incidental PVP, but its that kind of game, you don't go into Eve expecting a Hello Kitty Online Adventures type of experience.
    Eve is still awesome, and for a game that old, thats pretty amazing all of itself.
  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member EpicPosts: 1,948
    edited July 2016
    That's why I play games like Starpoint Gemini 2. All the fun of EVE, without the assholes. If you really need those jerks around to enjoy yourself though, try Space Pirates and Zombies 2. The game does a good job of simulating them with AI. Minus the sexism, racism, and IRL death threats, though they may add those later if enough people ask. Well, probably not. 
    Post edited by Solar_Prophet on

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • MyriaMyria Member UncommonPosts: 699
    Gdemami said:
    Myria said:
    Even more than most MMOs, Eve is boring as hell to play solo for any extended period of time.
    That can be said or disagreed with about any game.

    Your premise is false, it is just your opinion.
    I did say "Even more than most MMOs,", correct? That would imply that it is true of most of them, yes?

    As for your second line, that is easily the most repeated piece of mindless idiocy routinely posted to these forums. Of course it's my opinion, the vast bulk of what is posted on these forums -- including the entirety of your post -- is opinion.

    That should go without saying, but for some bizarre people feel the need to constantly point it out as if it is somehow revelatory, relevant, or somehow invalidates what is said.

    Then again, you'd think people would know by now that an opinion is neither true nor false by it's very nature...

    As for Eve, in my personal experience with the game, anyone who doesn't take "Trust No One" literally in that game is a fool.

    Just for clarity, that's an opinion. Mine.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    edited July 2016
    Myria said:
    That would imply that it is true of most of them, yes?
    No, it would only imply that it is just your opinion and same statement can be applied to any game - like I said, false premise.


    As for the rest of your post...eh...goes in line with your (repeated) fallacy quoted above...
  • SoaringBarnacleSoaringBarnacle Member UncommonPosts: 34
    edited July 2016
    Oh boy did I hit home


    "Once the general public knew what this psychotic asshole was doing, there was an outcry to ban him, and CCP did just that."

    Yes, after Ripard Teg churned up, very rightfully, a shitstorm
    Otherwise Erotica1 and his buttbuddies would have kept on, as they had been doing for a while
    Do you think they were never reported previously, down to the very details of their psychological manipulation? kek

    "he was shut down by EVE community outrage, not held up as a shining example of our community"

    That's really disingenuous to write this, when such an awesome angry depressive 270lbs. griefer-enabler CSM as Malcanis ran to his defense, with the usual crowd
    It really took Ripard Teg's stubborness to get justice. And then he was vilipended, and a lot of players were very angry that the incredible content creator Erotica1 was banned -his known accounts, of course ;) -


    "Greed is laughable in a game like EVE.  Of course there's greed, it's a capitalist paradise.  If you aren't greedy then you'll never have enough ISK to afford the things you want. "

    But the problem is : RMT, the people who do it, the kickbacks CCP gets, and the effect it has been having on New Eden politics for years.
    I'd thought it would be very much evident... fancy a rose? http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?18005-A-Rose-by-any-other-name


    "Name one guild in a themepark game that does nothing all day long but give training classes to new players.  Just one, cause I've never heard of that kind of altruism outside of EVE."

    New Eden requires such a guild so that immortal, incredibly rich and powerful pod pilots can know what's going on, i.e. understand all the tricks (due to bad mechanics left to go toxic) and meta and psychological manipulations they are going to encounter: immersive, interesting (if you're not a sadist or a masochist?), proof of great gameplay, of such a great community that people have to play the metagame of teaching other players how to be wary of toxic mechanics and constant metagaming (psychological manipulation)  ?


    "Once you become an enjoyable rank-and-file member of a good, non-toxic corporation, then you will feel like family around them. "

    "Can I scout? can I haul? can ferry fuel or stuff for the corp?"
    "Lol man we have alts for that :^) but don't worry you can do ANYTHING you want in New Eden"


    "Yes, I got attacked and killed numerous times, when running trade routes. That's not toxicity, that is open world PvP. "

    Did you even read the opening post: meta, psychological manipulation, befriending people so you can stab them in the back and laugh at them when they unsubscribe, etc... that's the meat and potatoes of EvE's PvP, not the couple dozen 6-man fleets roaming in lowsec
    TiDi battles are simply random slideshows, the outcome of which decides who gets which system/constellation/region

    Daily dose of online sociopathy in New Eden: here's your PvP. But hey! it sells accounts


    "You CAN play EVE with only one account. If you need more, get some friends in game. It HELPS to have more accounts, but its not absolutely necessary. "

    Why should I get some friend ingame when every savvy New Eden capsuleer urges me not to trust anyone?
    Looking at the history of this game their advice is sound.
    How do I scout a lowsec gate with one account?
    How do I go to Jita when I have a wardec?
    etc etc
    But nice meme tho, "You CAN play EVE with only one account".
    Technically yes, but you can't do shit!


    "Griefing and scamming in a computer game does not make an individual a sociopath or a psychopath."

    Actually it does, since this individual is getting off another person's distress
    He doesn't even know this person, he's just in it for the Schadenfreude
    Zero empathy + feeling elated when someone cries and unsubscribes = psychopathy
    It sells accounts, on both sides of the grief (scout/market alt to escape griefers /  griefing alts)


    Trust no one being the cardinal rule of a game mostly dependent on playing with others for fun is pretty much what leads to the kind of community Eve has. Sadly, CCP is so beholden to said community that at this point there's nothing they can do to fix it, so... Meh. Any snake that eats its own tail is eventually going to run out of tail. It's pretty clear CCP knows that,  but their efforts to start something else have no far been pretty pathetic.

    So true
    I believe they started becoming really cynical when they understood a good portion of their playerbase would endlessly look for glitches and wonky mechanics to grief the shit out of random joes
    So they didn't bother much fixing grotesque mechanics (we don't know what's on the other side of a gate, but we have RL data on New Eden + around ; d-scan has to be spammed manually ; docking games ; accounts are unrelated: this ingame friend who cries over your shiploss might have been part of the gankfleet, which he brought to your location)


    "Eve is open world PvP and if you go into any open world PvP game without doing your homework than may God have mercy on your soul. "

    See a few paragraphs above
    The open-world PvP is pathetic. Alts eyes everywhere, neutral repping alts (are they still a thing?), unscannable gatecamps, "pirates" who dock up to run missions on their positive sec status alt until gatecamp busters leave....
    The real PvP is in the meta: psychological manipulation, causing emotional grief through vicious trickery


    "The game is founded on loss"

    And it indeed encourages players to be risk-averse
    Multiple accounts! can't scam on your main, can't gank on your main, can't scout on your main...
    Reputation (accounts are unrelated) + risk-aversion = everyone and his dog has at least a secondary one.
    Hey I love this 30 bucks a month MMO!


    "But all in all, EVEs community is an awesome group"
    "The community is night and day, compared to games like League of Legends"
    "Still the coolest friendliest community for a game I have ever seen"
    "it leads to a community where people that you can trust become very good friends !"

    Not sure if sarcastic trolls or damage control team... or both


    Post edited by SoaringBarnacle on
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,309
    Ahhhh, I see.  This thread is just an excuse for a hate rampage.  Can you please show us on zKillboard where the evil bad man shot you?  I'd like to see if you dropped a shuttle full of PLEX to be this angry.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    Bitter vet.....moving on. Cya in game.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,634
    Bitter vet.....moving on. Cya in game.
    You generalized off of ONE game?eeks

    Seems to me he is just unhappy with CCP and to be honest,i don't blame him one biut and it is his right as a game supporter.

    My very experience with CCP was bad,i wanted to ask questions in chat but all i saw was ISK SPAM,so much of it that it turned me right off.You see when a developer that si amking a LOT of money cannot even patrol it's chat,i get a message that is loud and clear >>>>"We don't give a shit about the game or it's integrity or it's players".My response to that is....why should anyone care about them then?

    Just like in real life,we want good people,well i want the same,if i feel a business is run by bad apples,that business should be ridiculed and big time.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

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