Just seems like a real nasty thing to do to me. Either you have a B2P game or not. Kind of sounds like the majority of all the rest of the supposedly FTP games out there now.
That is the bottom line to me. Just more dishonesty.
peoples who accept these stuft would be okay with that too : the game free to play, that a wasted land with nothing everywhere, they make a town and make it pay to enter, they are fine because you dont need go there, you can stay in the wasteland for free so that okay if they ask for money for the nice town, the wasteland free !! not p2win... free to play players logic... in the nice town they also got item each 2 min, while in the wasteland you get item at a rate of one each 200 hours... not p2win you also can get it in games !
free to play players logic..
sorry but that p2win what they are doing, if you dont know what p2win mean, that item or features, anything, who give advantage, even if you can get it ingames that p2win because you earn it with cash not skill or while playing the games, but cash... only item im fine in a cash shop are cosmetic item who change aperance or some litle features like change race,name, faction, but nothing else... it become right away p2win and it give advantage...
I am alone in my convictions, but that is OK. I firmly believe it is heading in a wrong direction. I have seen it before, it always starts with something small, and overtime it becomes evident. I just hope they don't take the red pill and see where the rabbit hole goes. Overtime this could result into a crash grab economy. Excuse me for being overly sensitive. I just seen this time and time again with games. I will only hope for the best and see what eventually happens.
A little afterthought about the 30% marketplace bonus.
In GW2, another B2P game, you can directly convert real life cash into in game gold. How is that different? It isn't. And there was never anything wrong with that.
So after thinking twice about it, I see nothing wrong with this pack.
What you said is true, but GW2 and BDO are two completely different games. GW2 is not PvP focused endgame. Yes, it has WvWvW, but it's more of an esport arena and doesn't really affect PvE. It's also extremely easy to reach level 80 in GW2, where as BDO doesn't even have a level cap to speak of. I mean it has a soft cap, but this value pack offers +10% XP gain which may not seem like much, but over a long period of time, it could mean one hell of an unbalanced problem. Also, acquiring decent gear in GW2 is not difficult either, but good gear in BDO either requires a tremendous amount of grinding or buying off the marketplace.
So, while DAUM claimed they would do their best to steer clear of P2W option, that is exactly what this value pack is.
Awesome post mate. You said it perfectly. Great Job.
I really like BDO and see myself playing it for years. That won't happen if the game goes p2w. This soft sub makes it reasonable to think that it won't, because the game will be profitable enough without p2w.
That's what we all said about ArcheAge's Sub.
You can't be serious.
Without patron in archeage you could do barely anything unlike BDO which hands you energy on huge amounts and is not shared per characters. Archeage main problem was that if you wanted to stay competitive you HAD to have patron. Either by buying it ingame from people or paying it yourself.
I played this game during the week freebie on release and uninstalled after 5 days because it was obvious that the cash shop was the game or would at least become the game, jus sayin.
Poster you really should not find value in any part of this, simply because you will now be paying a sub WITHOUT the percs that come from a sub game. IE reasonable bags, no AH restrictions, no obscene death penalties, the ability to change your clothes or use dye as u wish, easy loot systems, free costumes, and the ability to attain all the game has in a reasonable time with out any extra cost, and much much much more that you get with a subscription in a sub game. Paying more for less is not a perc it is a rip off.
I played this game during the week freebie on release and uninstalled after 5 days because it was obvious that the cash shop was the game or would at least become the game, jus sayin.
Poster you really should not find value in any part of this, simply because you will now be paying a sub WITHOUT the percs that come from a sub game. IE reasonable bags, no AH restrictions, no obscene death penalties, the ability to change your clothes or use dye as u wish, easy loot systems, free costumes, and the ability to attain all the game has in a reasonable time with out any extra cost, and much much much more that you get with a subscription in a sub game. Paying more for less is not a perc it is a rip off.
Everquest was a subscription game. It had death penalties and weight restrictions ,bags were really hard to come buy and I recall deleting loot that I could not carry and even copper coins because being a wizard I could not carry much. It used to really upset me to do that especially since I was one of those people who never learnt the art of earning money in an MMORPG. Perpetually poor.
Looting in Black Desert only becomes an issue if you kill a lot of mobs. I loot fine without a pet even . I always forget to make the food so my bird is in my house flying about.
Lot of games charge a commission for using the auction house and I do not see an issue with it.
The costume part with a subscription might work if they gave a few tokens each month to convert to pearl like SWTOR that enables you to buy outfits. I feel they should add this and it should not make those that bought outfits angry either.
I also don't understand what you mean by " ability to attain all the game has in a reasonable time with out any extra cost"..... what exactly are you being prevented from attaining and having to pay for it?
This sub should include pearls. How many? Enough to buy an outfit once a month, although this probably would mean cutting outfit prices as well. ESO includes enough Crowns to buy 2 outfits a month, plus they include quite a few outfits in game as drops. If BDO is going to start running a 'sub', they should have the means to eliminate the one thing that keeps a lot of people (like me) from considering the game.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
Interesting. I think whilst the pack *could* be argued as non-P2W (it depends entirely on how *you* play the game), I think it says more about the direction the game is going.
This is going to be one of the worst cash shop games, I just feel it. As well as the need to maintain profit (and any arguments about greed), IMO it has become crystal clear that Daum are just incompetent beyond belief. That is what will drive the descent into archeage cash grab territory over the next few months.
The value pack might also just be F2P preparation for six months time or something. But have to wait and see about that prediction .
I really like BDO and see myself playing it for years. That won't happen if the game goes p2w. This soft sub makes it reasonable to think that it won't, because the game will be profitable enough without p2w.
That's what we all said about ArcheAge's Sub.
You can't be serious.
Without patron in archeage you could do barely anything unlike BDO which hands you energy on huge amounts and is not shared per characters. Archeage main problem was that if you wanted to stay competitive you HAD to have patron. Either by buying it ingame from people or paying it yourself.
Yeah you couldn't own land if you weren't subbed in Archeage. That's effectively locking out content unless you sub, which as I said I don't like.
But that is not to mention that Archeage was p2w from the start. You could convert cash and there were items to help you enhance gear in the shop.
So absolutely zero people said the game might not go p2w because of the sub, because it already was from day 1.
"If they do not creatively think of ways to generate a residual income then the game will indeed become P2W because that will be the only option left. Money from box sales only last so long. "
If there's one thing PA/Kakao have been with the monetization of the game, it's creative. The game is $30 and you really could just pay 30 and play it forever if you want. But there are heavy incentives to use the shop that are not p2w. From combat that incentivizes mass killing which makes you want to get pets to auto-loot for you, to gear that barely changes looks unless you spend 30 in the shop, they've already done some interesting and controversial things with the game to get people to want to spend money.
This new soft sub in addition to those things should be enough to create a pretty sustainable and profitable MMORPG in the short and long-term, while avoiding content lock-outs and p2w.
They can't ever lock out content or go p2w though, at this point, because these monetization methods are only justifiable as ways to avoid those things.
Forsaken World is pay to win, BDO isn't even close. In Forsaken World there are items that RARELY drop that you need for many things. How can you get a reasonable amount of them? The cash shop, of course! You need these to improve your gear, transfer the improved stats to new gear, buy outfits, mounts, etc... And it takes about $60 worth to do a maximum improvement on a single piece of gear. There are 8 pieces of gear, so almost $500 to top grade your gear. But that is just getting started!
Now you need gems for your resistance. They drop RARELY, but guess where you can get them?
At the cash shop! It takes about $1000 to get all you need to max your resistances.
But now, you are just in the LOWEST edge of top tier. Now you need items that drop RARELY to get your highest end gear. This requires PvP rewards. Or you can go to the cash shop! About a grand here to get these.
And now you need to upgrade your spells. They drop RARELY, or you can use tokens to buy them. Guess where you get the tokens?
At the cash shop! About $500 worth of tokens gets you maxed spells. Now, they did fix this so you can get the tokens in-game, but still...
About $2000 to get a character solidly in the top tier, to the point you can join a top guild and participate in the large raids for top weapons and jewelry. Probably about a year later you will be in the top third of the top tier.
And that two grand is PER CHARACTER. If you want a tank, a healer and a DPS you are looking at SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS. It still blows me away that they can keep drawing whales at that price.
I played CoH for 8 years, and I was subbed for 6 of them. Altogether I paid a little over eleven hundred in sub fees and in expansions.
So for a 6 year sub I paid $1100. For Forsaken World, a F2P game, It would have cost me about $2000 every 18 months. I quit FW when I realized what it would end up costing.
I think I'll take the sub, thank you...
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't think people should accept any pay 2 win in a game with PVP just because other games are worse.
People seem to forget what is pay 2 win, and its really simple. Gaining any advantage over other players by spending real money (not time)
When a player has to spend extra just to be able to compete on the same level as other players then its pay 2 win. Can a player who just buys the game be a fair competitor in this game or do they need to buy lots of things from the cash shop, and now the monthly fee as well?
Updates like this will drive away players that can't afford to keep up, and deter more people from buying this game.
Once again we'll see a game slowly die because the developers are just too greedy when it could have been growing in popularity instead.
I keep hearing the word greedy. I'm not so sure they are rolling in the dough with a $30 box fee and a cosmetic cash shop (for the most part). I've paid $30 and $10 on house upgrades...that's it and I've been playing since launch. I have no plans to pay for anything else in the cash shop. For a game that is being actively developed, not just maintenance mode, I would think the $30 buy in and cosmetic cash shop are not gonna cut it, hence this change.
I don't think people should accept any pay 2 win in a game with PVP just because other games are worse.
People seem to forget what is pay 2 win, and its really simple. Gaining any advantage over other players by spending real money (not time)
When a player has to spend extra just to be able to compete on the same level as other players then its pay 2 win. Can a player who just buys the game be a fair competitor in this game or do they need to buy lots of things from the cash shop, and now the monthly fee as well?
Updates like this will drive away players that can't afford to keep up, and deter more people from buying this game.
Once again we'll see a game slowly die because the developers are just too greedy when it could have been growing in popularity instead.
By your definition hard sub games are p2w because you gain an advantage by paying your sub fee, that advantage being access to the game- which is a HUGE ADVANTAGE when you're trying to win.
Everyone has different definitions of p2w and also different tolerances for varying degrees of bought advantages.
My definition and where my line is drawn: If someone can drop $1,000 on the game and instantly kill anyone they encounter, it's p2w. You can do that in quite a few MMOPRGs, but not this one.
I don't think people should accept any pay 2 win in a game with PVP just because other games are worse.
People seem to forget what is pay 2 win, and its really simple. Gaining any advantage over other players by spending real money (not time)
When a player has to spend extra just to be able to compete on the same level as other players then its pay 2 win. Can a player who just buys the game be a fair competitor in this game or do they need to buy lots of things from the cash shop, and now the monthly fee as well?
Updates like this will drive away players that can't afford to keep up, and deter more people from buying this game.
Once again we'll see a game slowly die because the developers are just too greedy when it could have been growing in popularity instead.
By your definition hard sub games are p2w because you gain an advantage by paying your sub fee, that advantage being access to the game- which is a HUGE ADVANTAGE when you're trying to win.
Everyone has different definitions of p2w and also different tolerances for varying degrees of bought advantages.
My definition and where my line is drawn: If someone can drop $1,000 on the game and instantly kill anyone they encounter, it's p2w. You can do that in quite a few MMOPRGs, but not this one.
If a cash shop had a limit cap of $15.00/mo per account, there would be no P2W.
I don't think people should accept any pay 2 win in a game with PVP just because other games are worse.
People seem to forget what is pay 2 win, and its really simple. Gaining any advantage over other players by spending real money (not time)
When a player has to spend extra just to be able to compete on the same level as other players then its pay 2 win. Can a player who just buys the game be a fair competitor in this game or do they need to buy lots of things from the cash shop, and now the monthly fee as well?
Updates like this will drive away players that can't afford to keep up, and deter more people from buying this game.
Once again we'll see a game slowly die because the developers are just too greedy when it could have been growing in popularity instead.
By your definition hard sub games are p2w because you gain an advantage by paying your sub fee, that advantage being access to the game- which is a HUGE ADVANTAGE when you're trying to win.
Everyone has different definitions of p2w and also different tolerances for varying degrees of bought advantages.
My definition and where my line is drawn: If someone can drop $1,000 on the game and instantly kill anyone they encounter, it's p2w. You can do that in quite a few MMOPRGs, but not this one.
If a cash shop had a limit cap of $15.00/mo per account, there would be no P2W.
Why would a company limit how much you can spend in their cash shop?
"I want to spend $60 in your cash shop so I can get foofoo'd" "Sorry, you can only spend $15 a month." "Then I will spend it on another game to get foofoo'd there" "Sorry, we can't break the rules, we won't take your money even if you throw it at us."
Yeah, right...
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
Comments
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
a fool get soon departed with his money, i think they are doing a great job so far, would be nice to see their earning.
they are doing it slowy with times, just a bit more each months.
just for info they have got ZERO of my money
That is the bottom line to me. Just more dishonesty.
Disagree but I bow before your awesomeness
free to play players logic..
sorry but that p2win what they are doing, if you dont know what p2win mean, that item or features, anything, who give advantage, even if you can get it ingames that p2win because you earn it with cash not skill or while playing the games, but cash... only item im fine in a cash shop are cosmetic item who change aperance or some litle features like change race,name, faction, but nothing else... it become right away p2win and it give advantage...
Without patron in archeage you could do barely anything unlike BDO which hands you energy on huge amounts and is not shared per characters. Archeage main problem was that if you wanted to stay competitive you HAD to have patron. Either by buying it ingame from people or paying it yourself.
I played this game during the week freebie on release and uninstalled after 5 days because it was obvious that the cash shop was the game or would at least become the game, jus sayin.
Poster you really should not find value in any part of this, simply because you will now be paying a sub WITHOUT the percs that come from a sub game. IE reasonable bags, no AH restrictions, no obscene death penalties, the ability to change your clothes or use dye as u wish, easy loot systems, free costumes, and the ability to attain all the game has in a reasonable time with out any extra cost, and much much much more that you get with a subscription in a sub game. Paying more for less is not a perc it is a rip off.
Full tower PC
Looting in Black Desert only becomes an issue if you kill a lot of mobs. I loot fine without a pet even . I always forget to make the food so my bird is in my house flying about.
Lot of games charge a commission for using the auction house and I do not see an issue with it.
The costume part with a subscription might work if they gave a few tokens each month to convert to pearl like SWTOR that enables you to buy outfits. I feel they should add this and it should not make those that bought outfits angry either.
I also don't understand what you mean by " ability to attain all the game has in a reasonable time with out any extra cost"..... what exactly are you being prevented from attaining and having to pay for it?
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
This is going to be one of the worst cash shop games, I just feel it. As well as the need to maintain profit (and any arguments about greed), IMO it has become crystal clear that Daum are just incompetent beyond belief. That is what will drive the descent into archeage cash grab territory over the next few months.
The value pack might also just be F2P preparation for six months time or something. But have to wait and see about that prediction
But that is not to mention that Archeage was p2w from the start. You could convert cash and there were items to help you enhance gear in the shop.
So absolutely zero people said the game might not go p2w because of the sub, because it already was from day 1.
"If they do not creatively think of ways to generate a residual income then the game will indeed become P2W because that will be the only option left. Money from box sales only last so long. "
If there's one thing PA/Kakao have been with the monetization of the game, it's creative. The game is $30 and you really could just pay 30 and play it forever if you want. But there are heavy incentives to use the shop that are not p2w. From combat that incentivizes mass killing which makes you want to get pets to auto-loot for you, to gear that barely changes looks unless you spend 30 in the shop, they've already done some interesting and controversial things with the game to get people to want to spend money.
This new soft sub in addition to those things should be enough to create a pretty sustainable and profitable MMORPG in the short and long-term, while avoiding content lock-outs and p2w.
They can't ever lock out content or go p2w though, at this point, because these monetization methods are only justifiable as ways to avoid those things.
Now you need gems for your resistance. They drop RARELY, but guess where you can get them?
At the cash shop! It takes about $1000 to get all you need to max your resistances.
But now, you are just in the LOWEST edge of top tier. Now you need items that drop RARELY to get your highest end gear. This requires PvP rewards. Or you can go to the cash shop! About a grand here to get these.
And now you need to upgrade your spells. They drop RARELY, or you can use tokens to buy them. Guess where you get the tokens?
At the cash shop! About $500 worth of tokens gets you maxed spells. Now, they did fix this so you can get the tokens in-game, but still...
About $2000 to get a character solidly in the top tier, to the point you can join a top guild and participate in the large raids for top weapons and jewelry. Probably about a year later you will be in the top third of the top tier.
And that two grand is PER CHARACTER. If you want a tank, a healer and a DPS you are looking at SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS. It still blows me away that they can keep drawing whales at that price.
I played CoH for 8 years, and I was subbed for 6 of them. Altogether I paid a little over eleven hundred in sub fees and in expansions.
So for a 6 year sub I paid $1100. For Forsaken World, a F2P game, It would have cost me about $2000 every 18 months. I quit FW when I realized what it would end up costing.
I think I'll take the sub, thank you...
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
The ones who reward players such as this generally fair better than those who deny content or even take away things when people don't pay.
I'd say as long as these changes don't severely impact your game play, keep on playing the game whether you decide to sub or not.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
People seem to forget what is pay 2 win, and its really simple. Gaining any advantage over other players by spending real money (not time)
When a player has to spend extra just to be able to compete on the same level as other players then its pay 2 win.
Can a player who just buys the game be a fair competitor in this game or do they need to buy lots of things from the cash shop, and now the monthly fee as well?
Updates like this will drive away players that can't afford to keep up, and deter more people from buying this game.
Once again we'll see a game slowly die because the developers are just too greedy when it could have been growing in popularity instead.
Everyone has different definitions of p2w and also different tolerances for varying degrees of bought advantages.
My definition and where my line is drawn: If someone can drop $1,000 on the game and instantly kill anyone they encounter, it's p2w. You can do that in quite a few MMOPRGs, but not this one.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
"I want to spend $60 in your cash shop so I can get foofoo'd"
"Sorry, you can only spend $15 a month."
"Then I will spend it on another game to get foofoo'd there"
"Sorry, we can't break the rules, we won't take your money even if you throw it at us."
Yeah, right...
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
The problem is the Grunil gloves are only 90k ...hard to believe a theory by someone screwing you for 300%