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Store, whatever. Updates, whatever. Website, whatever. Giving us a date? What?

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  • FranciscourantFranciscourant Member UncommonPosts: 356
    edited July 2016
    H0urg1ass said:
    Internally you ask your web development team, "What's the absolute worst case scenario for getting 'X' done?".

    Externally you add a week to that and say "We plan to have 'X' done on this date unless something goes wrong".

    When you deliver a week or two early, then you're a hero and your customer never has a clue that two weeks early was really your timetable to begin with. Under-promise - Over-deliver. I learned that lesson quickly in the military, and I've been using every day since I got out.

    Not only that, but never ask anyone if they want the bad news first. If you're the one parceling out information, then give the bad news first. You want to end every conversation on a high note. If you don't have one, then you damn well better invent one.

    If they want to hire me to handle their PR, then I'm willing, but I don't come cheap.
    Applying this method to Kickstarter campaigns would probably result in less enthusiastic backers and smaller pledges.

    If the studios behind Star Citizen, Shroud of the Avatar, Camelot Unchained or any other KS MMOs mentioned that it would take many years to get the game done, I doubt the backers would have pledged so much money initially.


  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,968
    Being in charge of a game from start to finish is a bit different than working lead on one section of a game. 

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited July 2016
    Being in charge of a game from start to finish is a bit different than working lead on one section of a game. 
    You realize the guy was talking about everyone not just the lead? He said "first game they do", separate from first game the company has done... which reads as they've never worked on games before.. At least to me, which is hard to know exactly what he was trying to say there, due to the obvious language barrier. 

    ... Yes there is a difference between being the lead of a project and being the lead of a team on a project. I never said there wasn't. The fact is these folks have dev experience, not just the lead dev either... When someone leads a post with a statement on fact checking, it's suitable to correct facts they seemingly have wrong, no?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 623
    Torval said:
    You know when you're in a really high stress high profile big budget project the least helpful thing is for people to constantly pick and scrutinize every single little minutiae and then dissect and parse that down to the nth detail.

    Why not just lighten up and give these people a little breathing room to sort their stuff out. They are trying to communicate and meet deadlines. They'll get better at it. Or maybe they won't get a lot better at it and the project timeline will be rocky and stressful. In either event it doesn't help to nitpick. It won't make it better, but it could make it worse.
    I disagree, any reaction is better than no reaction, it means people still care about your product.
    A lot of people scrutinizing your work is a good sign.
    A dev has to have thick skin anyway, this really shouldn't negatively affect them. It's easy to filter the nonsense out, the rest is feedback.
    Negative feedback is the best feedback anyway, because it is the feedback that will help you improve. 

    In this case, they made some mistakes, they got some backlash, another red flag got raised, everyone will be moving along shortly.

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,498
    oh another one of these threads...  i tend to agree with previous posters in the sentiment of whatever happens happens complaining and nitpicking and explaining how if you were them you would do it so much better for such and such reason is basically pointless.

    A - you aren't them.
    B - Hindsight is a great thing, but if you were them in that situation you probably would have done what everyone else was agreeing to do and then be caught in the same mess you are now.

    it's easy to judge and scrutinize from the outside though right. I get it for the people who have invested, but it's early days and things are always going to go wrong but i don't think jumping onto panic stations this early is the right step. Also for all those who haven't backed but feel the need to have an opinion, stop fear mongering if you aren't giving them money or have no interest in the game, stop trying to invoke fear into those who do.

    I'll never understand this mentality where everyone has to judge how and why people spend their own money and why people have to prove the game they are playing is the best game and try to force it down peoples throats or on the flip side try to force people into believing a game they don't like is the spawn of the devil.

    It's like live and let live.. if you don't like something ignore it, if you do there is no need to over preach and try to ram it down peoples throats. Hell i've probably been guilty of it myself in the past, but i guess the difference now is time and perspective.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Gaendric said:
    Torval said:
    You know when you're in a really high stress high profile big budget project the least helpful thing is for people to constantly pick and scrutinize every single little minutiae and then dissect and parse that down to the nth detail.

    Why not just lighten up and give these people a little breathing room to sort their stuff out. They are trying to communicate and meet deadlines. They'll get better at it. Or maybe they won't get a lot better at it and the project timeline will be rocky and stressful. In either event it doesn't help to nitpick. It won't make it better, but it could make it worse.
    I disagree, any reaction is better than no reaction, it means people still care about your product.
    A lot of people scrutinizing your work is a good sign.
    A dev has to have thick skin anyway, this really shouldn't negatively affect them. It's easy to filter the nonsense out, the rest is feedback.
    Negative feedback is the best feedback anyway, because it is the feedback that will help you improve. 

    In this case, they made some mistakes, they got some backlash, another red flag got raised, everyone will be moving along shortly.

    If this were real world dialogue I'd agree... The problem is it's internet dialogue which tends to be more slanted toward a care about sensationalizing, stirring the drama pot, and arguing for the sake of arguing. Than it does caring about a project or it's outcome. WHich the only care there is being able to say "i told you so" at the end of the day. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • VucarVucar Member UncommonPosts: 311
    Lets all just get back to pokemon go and put a pin in this thing, come back in a week and see how it's doing.
  • ZultraZultra Member UncommonPosts: 363
    The site is up.
    Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3

    Join the revolutionary MMO! 
  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Member UncommonPosts: 588
    Looks like another Star citizen project, where the world is promised but hardly anything but place holders are delivered and lies and missed dates are in their stead. Mmorpg kickstarters just seem to much of a gamble.

    MurderHerd

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Looks like another Star citizen project, where the world is promised but hardly anything but place holders are delivered and lies and missed dates are in their stead. Mmorpg kickstarters just seem to much of a gamble.

    Did their site go back down or something? I just checked it and it's up and running. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • VucarVucar Member UncommonPosts: 311
    CrazKanuk said:
    Looks like another Star citizen project, where the world is promised but hardly anything but place holders are delivered and lies and missed dates are in their stead. Mmorpg kickstarters just seem to much of a gamble.

    Did their site go back down or something? I just checked it and it's up and running. 
    Think this guy's just leveling up his necromancy on dead and outdated threads.
  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,335
    I think people get too excited, too early.  It leads to this type of agita.  I follow a few games at a distance, but don't 'commit' my excitement to it until I think it's getting close.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • ZultraZultra Member UncommonPosts: 363
    2nd october is shop open date. 
    Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3

    Join the revolutionary MMO! 
  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER Member UncommonPosts: 516
    some of these guys worked on star citizen ?? they sure know how tu abuse it

    what they will sell ?? pixel castle ?? pixel horse ??

    when the games releases of course, we buy them before :)
  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Member UncommonPosts: 588
    Now only $40,000 and you can have your own kingdom!

    MurderHerd

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,368
    edited December 2016
    Geeky said:
    I don't care that the store is taking longer, the website is down, or that their updates are sporadic.  What I care about is that they say they'll do something on this day and then it never happens.  

    Just stop saying you'll do something on a certain day, let that day pass, come back the next day and give the excuse of "Do you want it now or want it right.  We want to do it right, so we missed our deadline."  Just stop giving a deadline.  Don't give a day at all.  I don't care how long it takes the anticipation is fun, what isn't fun though, is seeing SBS continually say "This date" "Tomorrow" "Today" and have never once hit those timelines.  

    I've already put A LOT of money in this game, I hope it's wonderful, but I'm quickly losing faith in this group simply due to the fact that from continually missed self imposed deadlines they don't seem to know what it's actually going to take.  That's a bit scary.
    I'm curious what "A LOT" of money is.

    This project honestly doesn't look like it will be realistically finished, since they claim to only need 2-3M when in actuality it will take at least 10-20M to do what they "plan" to do for the title.
  • CostaniusCostanius Member UncommonPosts: 229
    The kickstarter money is not all they get! They already stated that they have other investors and funding as well.

    What I learned from another dev team from another MMO-project regarding kickstarter: A successful kickstarter campaign has two purposes:
    1. Get initial money to start or more money to finish a game.
    2. Show external investors / VCs that there is enough interest in this game so it'll be worth it to invest in its development! As those other devs from another game wrote: the more they get in the kickstarter, the easier it'll be for them to negotiate with those other investors and the better the terms of a possible deal / funding they'll get! So a successful kickstarter campaign just shows that there is interest and commitment of players, so this project will be worth to be developed and would probably be profitable.

    Most probably this is the case with CoE as well...

    -----------------------------------
    Life is too short to play bad games.

  • AvanahAvanah Member RarePosts: 1,551
    Geeky said:
    I don't care that the store is taking longer, the website is down, or that their updates are sporadic.  What I care about is that they say they'll do something on this day and then it never happens.  

    Just stop saying you'll do something on a certain day, let that day pass, come back the next day and give the excuse of "Do you want it now or want it right.  We want to do it right, so we missed our deadline."  Just stop giving a deadline.  Don't give a day at all.  I don't care how long it takes the anticipation is fun, what isn't fun though, is seeing SBS continually say "This date" "Tomorrow" "Today" and have never once hit those timelines.  

    I've already put A LOT of money in this game, I hope it's wonderful, but I'm quickly losing faith in this group simply due to the fact that from continually missed self imposed deadlines they don't seem to know what it's actually going to take.  That's a bit scary.
    Sorry, but no one forced you to spend Money on a product that is not released yet.

     Games take time and updates come when they post them. It does not matter what dates they specify for anything. Life happens, things change, even in the gaming world.

    I also bought a Founders pack and I check in with the updates every other day. I enjoy their posts and updates. When they say something, I check and see if it's there yet, if not, I check back the next day.

    I see no problem at all. The issue is impatient people that buy a Cake and expect to eat it now without the icing on top they would have gotten for free when it's ready.

    Your approach and attitude to the development team is what's Scary, I sure hope you will not be that way at release. Most of us left those people behind in Trade Chat of WOW.

    CoE is probably 1.5 years+ away from release. You are not allowed to complain unless you DIDN'T get what you payed for. Since the legal aspect of the product is not released yet, your post is MOOT.

    So....What type of character do you plan on being in CoE? Farmer, Bandit, King, Adventurer? :)

    "My Fantasy is having two men at once...

    One Cooking and One Cleaning!"

    ---------------------------

    "A good man can make you feel sexy,

    strong and able to take on the whole world...

    oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."





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