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Store, whatever. Updates, whatever. Website, whatever. Giving us a date? What?

GeekyGeeky Member UncommonPosts: 407
I don't care that the store is taking longer, the website is down, or that their updates are sporadic.  What I care about is that they say they'll do something on this day and then it never happens.  

Just stop saying you'll do something on a certain day, let that day pass, come back the next day and give the excuse of "Do you want it now or want it right.  We want to do it right, so we missed our deadline."  Just stop giving a deadline.  Don't give a day at all.  I don't care how long it takes the anticipation is fun, what isn't fun though, is seeing SBS continually say "This date" "Tomorrow" "Today" and have never once hit those timelines.  

I've already put A LOT of money in this game, I hope it's wonderful, but I'm quickly losing faith in this group simply due to the fact that from continually missed self imposed deadlines they don't seem to know what it's actually going to take.  That's a bit scary.
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Comments

  • KoboliKoboli Member UncommonPosts: 210
    edited July 2016
    Geeky said:
    I've already put A LOT of money in this game, I hope it's wonderful, but I'm quickly losing faith in this group simply due to the fact that from continually missed self imposed deadlines they don't seem to know what it's actually going to take.  That's a bit scary.
    You should be scared. In terms of demeanor and, as you pointed out, punctuality/adherence to external goals, they have been well below normal. Keep in mind that we only know about these missed dates because they were released - that may not be the end of it. In fact, it doesn't auger well for internal deadlines that may be being broached. 
  • XxPriestxXXxPriestxX Member UncommonPosts: 133
    Lol! Do what I do... pick a couple games to follow development on and just watch live streams, then go play something else, then come troll here in your downtime and ignore any and all dev talk until after they put meat on the table. Homer would have more hair left if he'd have listened to me =P
    Trolling, being trolled, getting banned, yelling at mods, getting perma banned, making new accounts, and still trolling this site since 2004 =D
  • GeekyGeeky Member UncommonPosts: 407
    Lol! Do what I do... pick a couple games to follow development on and just watch live streams, then go play something else, then come troll here in your downtime and ignore any and all dev talk until after they put meat on the table. Homer would have more hair left if he'd have listened to me =P
    I've got a ton of games on my Wishlist for Steam that I'm following.  And I mostly just lurk here, but I've wanted to post this on their (CoE's) forums for a couple days know, but we all know why that hasn't happened.
  • XxPriestxXXxPriestxX Member UncommonPosts: 133
    Geeky said:
    Lol! Do what I do... pick a couple games to follow development on and just watch live streams, then go play something else, then come troll here in your downtime and ignore any and all dev talk until after they put meat on the table. Homer would have more hair left if he'd have listened to me =P
    I've got a ton of games on my Wishlist for Steam that I'm following.  And I mostly just lurk here, but I've wanted to post this on their (CoE's) forums for a couple days know, but we all know why that hasn't happened.
    Yeah. I just hope they don't disappear like so many others these days. This and Pantheon are all I have to look forward to right now.
    Trolling, being trolled, getting banned, yelling at mods, getting perma banned, making new accounts, and still trolling this site since 2004 =D
  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER Member UncommonPosts: 516
    edited July 2016
    well.... let check fact : first games they do, new studio, check, crazy biggest dream on paper mmorpg with innovative features no one have ever deliver... chec:anguished:  backer who dream about this game and spend money , chec:-1:  they want deliver the games on money peoples estimate would be only 20% required for such a big project...
    the kickstarter goal was realy low for the project they wanted do..:-1:

    not sure what will happen but we now get rich dev who already got the money from their games... they need deliver it but nothing legal oblige them in any ways... well im happy if the games releases and will probably pay if they releases something ever... but im not someone who give away my money based on dream and papers... we will see :)
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,968
    No matter what they do at this point some gamers won't like it.   If they didn't post dates people would want to know when anyways.  It's always understood in gaming that posted dates are subject to change without advance notice.  It's also understood that you're taking a big chance when you invest in a project led by someone who's never handled the lead on completing a finished game before.  The only thing you can do at this point is sit back and watch it play itself out.  

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    well.... let check fact : first games they do, new studio, check,
    While this studio is new, I'm pretty sure folks working on this game have put out games before. As long as we're "fact checking"; the CEO has worked on Mercenaries, Star Wars Battlefront (the original), D&D Dragonshard, as well as Lord Of The Rings: War of the ring. HE was also a Sr engineering lead at Microsoft..

    How far did you research your facts?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Distopia said:
    well.... let check fact : first games they do, new studio, check,
    While this studio is new, I'm pretty sure folks working on this game have put out games before. As long as we're "fact checking"; the CEO has worked on Mercenaries, Star Wars Battlefront (the original), D&D Dragonshard, as well as Lord Of The Rings: War of the ring. HE was also a Sr engineering lead at Microsoft..

    How far did you research your facts?
    Well based on  an October 2015 separation date from Microsoft he only held that Snr Engineering Lead position for a year and that position was involved in the phone OS not games. He seems to have had three years of tools programming for games (2002- 2005), nothing on the production side or creative side. So you are stretching the truth a little.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited July 2016
    Distopia said:
    well.... let check fact : first games they do, new studio, check,
    While this studio is new, I'm pretty sure folks working on this game have put out games before. As long as we're "fact checking"; the CEO has worked on Mercenaries, Star Wars Battlefront (the original), D&D Dragonshard, as well as Lord Of The Rings: War of the ring. HE was also a Sr engineering lead at Microsoft..

    How far did you research your facts?
    Well based on  an October 2015 separation date from Microsoft he only held that Snr Engineering Lead position for a year and that position was involved in the phone OS not games. He seems to have had three years of tools programming for games (2002- 2005), nothing on the production side or creative side. So you are stretching the truth a little.
    Based on their kickstarter they had more than just the lead with game experience, I just used the CEO because his links (linkedin) were still in my history, and honestly working on the back end (as a lead) creating design tools for game designers, is very good experience to have.

    I don't think it's stretching at all to say this isn't the first game those working on it have put out. I think it's stretching to say this is the first game they've put out aside from as a collective. He spoke as if they're like Saga of Lucimia. IE a team full of amateurs in game design.






    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,174
    Murphy's Law.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,847
    What do resumes amount to when this project has 2% of the money it needs to deliver a product? Unless one of those guys has 15 years of extracting blood from stones, I'm not impressed.
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    Internally you ask your web development team, "What's the absolute worst case scenario for getting 'X' done?".

    Externally you add a week to that and say "We plan to have 'X' done on this date unless something goes wrong".

    When you deliver a week or two early, then you're a hero and your customer never has a clue that two weeks early was really your timetable to begin with. Under-promise - Over-deliver. I learned that lesson quickly in the military, and I've been using every day since I got out.

    Not only that, but never ask anyone if they want the bad news first. If you're the one parceling out information, then give the bad news first. You want to end every conversation on a high note. If you don't have one, then you damn well better invent one.

    If they want to hire me to handle their PR, then I'm willing, but I don't come cheap.
  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    edited July 2016
    Distopia said:
    Distopia said:
    well.... let check fact : first games they do, new studio, check,
    While this studio is new, I'm pretty sure folks working on this game have put out games before. As long as we're "fact checking"; the CEO has worked on Mercenaries, Star Wars Battlefront (the original), D&D Dragonshard, as well as Lord Of The Rings: War of the ring. HE was also a Sr engineering lead at Microsoft..

    How far did you research your facts?
    Well based on  an October 2015 separation date from Microsoft he only held that Snr Engineering Lead position for a year and that position was involved in the phone OS not games. He seems to have had three years of tools programming for games (2002- 2005), nothing on the production side or creative side. So you are stretching the truth a little.
    Based on their kickstarter they had more than just the lead with game experience, I just used the CEO because his links (linkedin) were still in my history, and honestly working on the back end (as a lead) creating design tools for game designers, is very good experience to have.

    I don't think it's stretching at all to say this isn't the first game those working on it have put out. I think it's stretching to say this is the first game they've put out aside from as a collective. He spoke as if they're like Saga of Lucimia. IE a team full of amateurs in game design.






    Except aren't they buying all the tools?
    Also when I look a little more closely at those three years one of them was with what is now a 'body shop' and not a development studio and the other two were with a studio that got folded into EA and disappeared. 
    I suppose we are reading that profile from quite different experiences and seeing very different things.




  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Distopia said:
    Distopia said:
    well.... let check fact : first games they do, new studio, check,
    While this studio is new, I'm pretty sure folks working on this game have put out games before. As long as we're "fact checking"; the CEO has worked on Mercenaries, Star Wars Battlefront (the original), D&D Dragonshard, as well as Lord Of The Rings: War of the ring. HE was also a Sr engineering lead at Microsoft..

    How far did you research your facts?
    Well based on  an October 2015 separation date from Microsoft he only held that Snr Engineering Lead position for a year and that position was involved in the phone OS not games. He seems to have had three years of tools programming for games (2002- 2005), nothing on the production side or creative side. So you are stretching the truth a little.
    Based on their kickstarter they had more than just the lead with game experience, I just used the CEO because his links (linkedin) were still in my history, and honestly working on the back end (as a lead) creating design tools for game designers, is very good experience to have.

    I don't think it's stretching at all to say this isn't the first game those working on it have put out. I think it's stretching to say this is the first game they've put out aside from as a collective. He spoke as if they're like Saga of Lucimia. IE a team full of amateurs in game design.






    Only in the fairytale world of KS-funded game projects are people with no previous project management experience put in charge of million-dollar projects !

    Working as one of the development team of 30 people that produced game X, and "putting out a game" are two vastly different concepts.

    AFAIK, None of the CoE team members have claimed to have ever "put out a game". If any of them were creative leads or production managers on any of the games they worked on, I'm quite sure we would know that by now in intimate detail. That kind of "star quality" is invaluable when building confidence for a KS project.

    The team appears to have relevant work experience, which is great. They also appear to have drive and enthusiasm, which is vital. But they unfortunately are starting to look cocky and over-confident, which is bad.:-1:

    They've made very big promises, and been handed $1.3M. They need a great deal more money if this project is ever going to see the light of day as more than a MUD and a website. Acting professionally will make a good outcome far more likely than acting like a "garage band"...
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited July 2016


    Only in the fairytale world of KS-funded game projects are people with no previous project management experience put in charge of million-dollar projects !

    Working as one of the development team of 30 people that produced game X, and "putting out a game" are two vastly different concepts.

    AFAIK, None of the CoE team members have claimed to have ever "put out a game". If any of them were creative leads or production managers on any of the games they worked on, I'm quite sure we would know that by now in intimate detail. That kind of "star quality" is invaluable when building confidence for a KS project.

    The team appears to have relevant work experience, which is great. They also appear to have drive and enthusiasm, which is vital. But they unfortunately are starting to look cocky and over-confident, which is bad.:-1:

    They've made very big promises, and been handed $1.3M. They need a great deal more money if this project is ever going to see the light of day as more than a MUD and a website. Acting professionally will make a good outcome far more likely than acting like a "garage band"...
    All of this pretty much goes without saying, You guys are acting like I'm saying it means they can pull this game off. Or they have "star power". 

    That's not what I'm saying at all.

    Where did this turn from" first games they do" to "was the lead of"? The former sounds to me like he's saying they have no design experience. Which isn't true, that's all i was saying. I don't need a redundant rundown on kickstarters every time I share an opinion, I don't support them for a reason, nothing you said is anything anyone here is not aware of. :-1:


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    Geeky said:
    I don't care that the store is taking longer, the website is down, or that their updates are sporadic.  What I care about is that they say they'll do something on this day and then it never happens.  

    Just stop saying you'll do something on a certain day, let that day pass, come back the next day and give the excuse of "Do you want it now or want it right.  We want to do it right, so we missed our deadline."  Just stop giving a deadline.  Don't give a day at all.  I don't care how long it takes the anticipation is fun, what isn't fun though, is seeing SBS continually say "This date" "Tomorrow" "Today" and have never once hit those timelines.  

    I've already put A LOT of money in this game, I hope it's wonderful, but I'm quickly losing faith in this group simply due to the fact that from continually missed self imposed deadlines they don't seem to know what it's actually going to take.  That's a bit scary.
    You gave money to a company you have no track record with, a company you have no reason to be putting so much faith in and you gave them a lot of money?

    I hope they rip you off to hilarious levels, just to teach you a lesson on how gullible you are and how little value you have in your money.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,766
    Yeah, they probably shouldn't give dates.  Star Citizen shows that people don't really care about dates or a finished product...
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    scorpex-x said:
    Geeky said:
    I don't care that the store is taking longer, the website is down, or that their updates are sporadic.  What I care about is that they say they'll do something on this day and then it never happens.  

    Just stop saying you'll do something on a certain day, let that day pass, come back the next day and give the excuse of "Do you want it now or want it right.  We want to do it right, so we missed our deadline."  Just stop giving a deadline.  Don't give a day at all.  I don't care how long it takes the anticipation is fun, what isn't fun though, is seeing SBS continually say "This date" "Tomorrow" "Today" and have never once hit those timelines.  

    I've already put A LOT of money in this game, I hope it's wonderful, but I'm quickly losing faith in this group simply due to the fact that from continually missed self imposed deadlines they don't seem to know what it's actually going to take.  That's a bit scary.
    You gave money to a company you have no track record with, a company you have no reason to be putting so much faith in and you gave them a lot of money?

    I hope they rip you off to hilarious levels, just to teach you a lesson on how gullible you are and how little value you have in your money.
    Well, unless a LOT more people give them a LOT more money, CoE is probably going to end up being the most expensive MUD ever made !

    If only they can get that website working so that eager backers can resume giving them wads of cash...
  • GeekyGeeky Member UncommonPosts: 407
    edited July 2016
    scorpex-x said:
    Geeky said:
    I don't care that the store is taking longer, the website is down, or that their updates are sporadic.  What I care about is that they say they'll do something on this day and then it never happens.  

    Just stop saying you'll do something on a certain day, let that day pass, come back the next day and give the excuse of "Do you want it now or want it right.  We want to do it right, so we missed our deadline."  Just stop giving a deadline.  Don't give a day at all.  I don't care how long it takes the anticipation is fun, what isn't fun though, is seeing SBS continually say "This date" "Tomorrow" "Today" and have never once hit those timelines.  

    I've already put A LOT of money in this game, I hope it's wonderful, but I'm quickly losing faith in this group simply due to the fact that from continually missed self imposed deadlines they don't seem to know what it's actually going to take.  That's a bit scary.
    You gave money to a company you have no track record with, a company you have no reason to be putting so much faith in and you gave them a lot of money?

    I hope they rip you off to hilarious levels, just to teach you a lesson on how gullible you are and how little value you have in your money.
    Thanks.  Because having faith in something is worthless and stupid. Gotcha.  

    My money's not invaluable and I do care what they do with it.  I like theirw proposition.  I was just saying I don't like being shown how incompetent they are.  If you're incompetent, hide it.  Stop giving dates you have no clue if you'll be able to hit.  Just say what you're working on and thats it.  When it comes out, woohoo.  I'll never know it was delayed.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,174
    "If you're incompetent, hide it."

    Stellar nugget of wisedom there. ::awesome:

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • holdenfiveholdenfive Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Are we supposed to be surprised it's amatuer hour with this lot?

    I have no doubt they like the 'idea' of making a game, and they're not above selling that idea to naive fawns. 

    But personally I'm not at all shocked that they cant seem to get a website to work. Maybe if they just put up a geocities page that says "But you see, it's bout the story bru, imagine you are a blacksmith...." it will suffice. That got them a million bucks, why do actual work all of a sudden?
  • MorwynnMorwynn Member UncommonPosts: 54
    I have been defending CoE on many fronts from time to time from comments that people make that have no interest in the game or have even read a single def journal. However this delay is indeed troubling. I understand they do not have a web developer on the payroll so they have to fiddle with code to try to produce something. The last thing I heard was that the testing was complete and they were trying to finish the migration from the other site. And the site would be up 'soon' without a store or instant messaging, which was fine by me, those can be added later. However that was three days ago and no updates since.

    While I understand problems arrise and deadlines are exceeded the communication to the future player base is missing. Could they have not said we messed up and put the old site back up till the new one was fully flushed out? Could they not give a more detailed update to the problems and delays so we can estimate a timeline? Could they not come online with IRC and explain the problems? They instead are staying dark and not explaining anything to the people who they took money from. At first, the Devs were very open and very active on the site and communications with the base was nice. Since Kickstarter things have been very dark and quiet and they are not online nearly as much. I fully understand they are working hard but a 10-20 min break from work to chat with the folks from time to time is not that much to ask.

    I am not complaining solely about the site being down for almost a week, not that unforseen problems have arrisen that are hard to focus on with such a small team, it's the lack of communication that bothers me. They have a community manager, where has she been? They have media outlets on Youtube such as the Walrus, why not send some information his way. Why not pop in to IRC with some sort of a detailed announcement. Instead we get the same comments: Won't be long now, Really Soon, Very Soon Now, Almost Finished, Soon :-). For me, this doesn't cut it in the slightest. After the third Very Soon, say something of substance, explain the situation. We gave money to you to help, we are not the enemy (dispite some commenters on the old forums). We are willing to accept problems and to give you the benifit of the dout, but to keep everyone in the dark, not explaining the problems that you have run into is not the way to go about it. Accept your faults, we understand you are not God and will make mistakes from time to time, fully understandable. I just wish you have more faith in your fan base to give us the benit of the dout as well.


    Whew, got that off my chest... feel much better now...

    You don't have to read the above statement, I just had to blow off some steam, thanks for the oportunity...
  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    edited July 2016
    Morwynn said:
    I have been defending CoE on many fronts from time to time from comments that people make that have no interest in the game or have even read a single def journal. However this delay is indeed troubling. I understand they do not have a web developer on the payroll so they have to fiddle with code to try to produce something. The last thing I heard was that the testing was complete and they were trying to finish the migration from the other site. And the site would be up 'soon' without a store or instant messaging, which was fine by me, those can be added.......

    Whew, got that off my chest... feel much better now...

    You don't have to read the above statement, I just had to blow off some steam, thanks for the oportunity...




    Maybe next time rather than mount a knee-jerk defence you might consider that the critics have seen this sort of rodeo before. Perhaps the criticism stems from aa perception of the difficulties involved and an understanding that this was the response you were going to get from Caspian and the Devs once the inevitable first crisis occurred.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,625
    You know when you're in a really high stress high profile big budget project the least helpful thing is for people to constantly pick and scrutinize every single little minutiae and then dissect and parse that down to the nth detail.

    Why not just lighten up and give these people a little breathing room to sort their stuff out. They are trying to communicate and meet deadlines. They'll get better at it. Or maybe they won't get a lot better at it and the project timeline will be rocky and stressful. In either event it doesn't help to nitpick. It won't make it better, but it could make it worse.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    When trying build the Taj Mahal on a budget you quickly realize how hard it is. All these games tell you it will be the Taj Mahal when they are done, but in the end it's more like a cheap vacation condo with a leaky faucet and crummy neighbors.
     
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