THAT'S the problem with this - that you've got a game being developed, essentially, by pedantic children in the midst of one of a series of temper tantrums, who don't possess the wherewithal or even common sense to approach their customer base pragmatically.
I think it's disingenuous for people to treat this type of thing based on the treatment they're used to receiving in retail or sit in dining. Which is where most of this "respect the customer" mentality has evolved from. If people did what folks do online at any place of business they'd be told where the door is as well. In certain cases they'd also leave with a punch in the face or in handcuffs...
The ever lasting mob mentality online is just ridiculous, it's like having a five year old in the back asking if we're there yet, while kicking your seat every 2 seconds and throwing poo on you. I think Devs as it stands let the mob get away with too much, I personally applaud the few that get fed up enough to just say STFU.
i wholeheartedly agree with this... when i worked in retail in my younger years, people were a lot less likely to get in your face about things like they do online, 1 most people in real life are scared of confrontation and 2 in real life, you have to take what is given back to you, you don't get to hide behind a keyboard and claim to be an expert etc.. and on more than 1 occasion i was in a customers face after he acted disrespectful and not once did i get reprimanded because in general i'm a patient guy and it takes a bit to push my buttons so my manager always knew i wouldn't have blown up for no reason.
is it professional no, but workers are still human too, they don't deserve sub human treatment because you're the customer... "the customer is always right" only gets you so far when you wanna act like a pig.
that being said, they didn't whine at the players they made a statement basically saying "complaining isn't going to fix things quicker" which is fair enough it's a true statement and honestly for the most part a small indy team trying to be transparent and act more like bro's to the community, what do you expect.. you can't have your cake and eat it too.
THAT'S the problem with this - that you've got a game being developed, essentially, by pedantic children in the midst of one of a series of temper tantrums, who don't possess the wherewithal or even common sense to approach their customer base pragmatically.
I think it's disingenuous for people to treat this type of thing based on the treatment they're used to receiving in retail or sit in dining. Which is where most of this "respect the customer" mentality has evolved from. If people did what folks do online at any place of business they'd be told where the door is as well. In certain cases they'd also leave with a punch in the face or in handcuffs...
The ever lasting mob mentality online is just ridiculous, it's like having a five year old in the back asking if we're there yet, while kicking your seat every 2 seconds and throwing poo on you. I think Devs as it stands let the mob get away with too much, I personally applaud the few that get fed up enough to just say STFU.
i wholeheartedly agree with this... when i worked in retail in my younger years, people were a lot less likely to get in your face about things like they do online, 1 most people in real life are scared of confrontation and 2 in real life, you have to take what is given back to you, you don't get to hide behind a keyboard and claim to be an expert etc.. and on more than 1 occasion i was in a customers face after he acted disrespectful and not once did i get reprimanded because in general i'm a patient guy and it takes a bit to push my buttons so my manager always knew i wouldn't have blown up for no reason.
is it professional no, but workers are still human too, they don't deserve sub human treatment because you're the customer... "the customer is always right" only gets you so far when you wanna act like a pig.
that being said, they didn't whine at the players they made a statement basically saying "complaining isn't going to fix things quicker" which is fair enough it's a true statement and honestly for the most part a small indy team trying to be transparent and act more like bro's to the community, what do you expect.. you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Except the analogy falls flat on its face. We are not in the restaurant/store where the problem occurred. We are down the road and across the street in a bar and the OP wandered in and made a comment about the restaurant/store and we are all discussing it here, in someone else's bar.
The real question is are they in business and expecting to be treated as professionals or are they trying to run a kid's lemonade stand?
THAT'S the problem with this - that you've got a game being developed, essentially, by pedantic children in the midst of one of a series of temper tantrums, who don't possess the wherewithal or even common sense to approach their customer base pragmatically.
I think it's disingenuous for people to treat this type of thing based on the treatment they're used to receiving in retail or sit in dining. Which is where most of this "respect the customer" mentality has evolved from. If people did what folks do online at any place of business they'd be told where the door is as well. In certain cases they'd also leave with a punch in the face or in handcuffs...
The ever lasting mob mentality online is just ridiculous, it's like having a five year old in the back asking if we're there yet, while kicking your seat every 2 seconds and throwing poo on you. I think Devs as it stands let the mob get away with too much, I personally applaud the few that get fed up enough to just say STFU.
i wholeheartedly agree with this... when i worked in retail in my younger years, people were a lot less likely to get in your face about things like they do online, 1 most people in real life are scared of confrontation and 2 in real life, you have to take what is given back to you, you don't get to hide behind a keyboard and claim to be an expert etc.. and on more than 1 occasion i was in a customers face after he acted disrespectful and not once did i get reprimanded because in general i'm a patient guy and it takes a bit to push my buttons so my manager always knew i wouldn't have blown up for no reason.
is it professional no, but workers are still human too, they don't deserve sub human treatment because you're the customer... "the customer is always right" only gets you so far when you wanna act like a pig.
that being said, they didn't whine at the players they made a statement basically saying "complaining isn't going to fix things quicker" which is fair enough it's a true statement and honestly for the most part a small indy team trying to be transparent and act more like bro's to the community, what do you expect.. you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Except the analogy falls flat on its face. We are not in the restaurant/store where the problem occurred. We are down the road and across the street in a bar and the OP wandered in and made a comment about the restaurant/store and we are all discussing it here, in someone else's bar.
The real question is are they in business and expecting to be treated as professionals or are they trying to run a kid's lemonade stand?
well no because people were bitching directly to their face about it not working yet.. so they made the comment that "complaining won't fix it any faster" so they directly responded to the customers that were complaining to them.. so it still holds true.
but i do agree they need to establish if they wanna be the professional company or the bro's of game development and then act accordingly.
Kickstarter developments should be expected to run a little rough. Hopefully this will help act as a thoughtful example to puffed up 'armchair developers' that things aren't as simple once you are actually doing it.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
mbrodie said:
well no because people were bitching directly to their face about it not working yet.. so they made the comment that "complaining won't fix it any faster" so they directly responded to the customers that were complaining to them.. so it still holds true.
It is entirely meaningless statement, customers are not supposed to be fixing anything there so there is no point telling them what they should do or not to do to fix the issues.
THAT'S the problem with this - that you've got a game being developed, essentially, by pedantic children in the midst of one of a series of temper tantrums, who don't possess the wherewithal or even common sense to approach their customer base pragmatically.
I think it's disingenuous for people to treat this type of thing based on the treatment they're used to receiving in retail or sit in dining. Which is where most of this "respect the customer" mentality has evolved from. If people did what folks do online at any place of business they'd be told where the door is as well. In certain cases they'd also leave with a punch in the face or in handcuffs...
The ever lasting mob mentality online is just ridiculous, it's like having a five year old in the back asking if we're there yet, while kicking your seat every 2 seconds and throwing poo on you. I think Devs as it stands let the mob get away with too much, I personally applaud the few that get fed up enough to just say STFU.
So we should accept substandard customer service in an internet setting, be talked down to, mocked, chastized, or otherwise ridiculed because of some nebulous concept like electronic mob mentality?
Well, good thing for Soulbound Studios that there are white knight apologists like yourself to clean up their messes for them! Heaven knows where we'd be as a species if there wasn't always the one guy in the crowd bending over backwards to make excuses for bad behavior.
You know what? Here's a radical idea: how about the people trying to sell something to us not treat their current and potential customers like a bunch of assholes? Gee, what a concept!
mbrodie said:
well no because people were bitching directly to their face about it not working yet.. so they made the comment that "complaining won't fix it any faster" so they directly responded to the customers that were complaining to them.. so it still holds true.
It is entirely meaningless statement, customers are not supposed to be fixing anything there so there is no point telling them what they should do or not to do to fix the issues.
do you have trouble with basic concepts, do you need to over complicate everything to seem superior.
They aren't telling the customers to fix or do anything, they are asking the customers to wait patiently while a things are fixed.
THAT'S the problem with this - that you've got a game being developed, essentially, by pedantic children in the midst of one of a series of temper tantrums, who don't possess the wherewithal or even common sense to approach their customer base pragmatically.
I think it's disingenuous for people to treat this type of thing based on the treatment they're used to receiving in retail or sit in dining. Which is where most of this "respect the customer" mentality has evolved from. If people did what folks do online at any place of business they'd be told where the door is as well. In certain cases they'd also leave with a punch in the face or in handcuffs...
The ever lasting mob mentality online is just ridiculous, it's like having a five year old in the back asking if we're there yet, while kicking your seat every 2 seconds and throwing poo on you. I think Devs as it stands let the mob get away with too much, I personally applaud the few that get fed up enough to just say STFU.
So we should accept substandard customer service in an internet setting, be talked down to, mocked, chastized, or otherwise ridiculed because of some nebulous concept like electronic mob mentality?
Well, good thing for Soulbound Studios that there are white knight apologists like yourself to clean up their messes for them! Heaven knows where we'd be as a species if there wasn't always the one guy in the crowd bending over backwards to make excuses for bad behavior.
You know what? Here's a radical idea: how about the people trying to sell something to us not treat their current and potential customers like a bunch of assholes? Gee, what a concept!
I mean, no one is asking you to buy it... it's your choice, if you like the game you gonna buy it regardless of 1 stressful moment in time where a developer chose his words poorly.
@Gdemami - Clicking lol on my replies doesn't detract from what i'm saying it just proves your basic lack of comprehension. He chose his words poorly plain and simple after working on something for 20 hours (apparently) that wasn't going his way. We're human, it happens.
I mean, no one is asking you to buy it... it's your choice, if you like the game you gonna buy it regardless of 1 stressful moment in time where a developer chose his words poorly.
And I wouldn't be, either, except that this is a pattern of behavior at SBS. Every so often they let the facade slip a little and we get to collectively peer behind the curtain and see the wizard for all he's worth: a jerk who resents his own customers.
I mean, no one is asking you to buy it... it's your choice, if you like the game you gonna buy it regardless of 1 stressful moment in time where a developer chose his words poorly.
And I wouldn't be, either, except that this is a pattern of behavior at SBS. Every so often they let the facade slip a little and we get to collectively peer behind the curtain and see the wizard for all he's worth: a jerk who resents his own customers.
like i said.. they are trying to be community bro's instead of a professional development team.. which comes with a bit of a lax attitude towards customer service.. it might not be right, but it's the stance they have appeared to take so i mean honestly what can you do? not much really just watch and wait and see what happens.
When the Kickstarter ended, SBS had roughly 18 months to complete the game, according to their promised deadline.
They now have 17 months, but they appear to be working themselves to exhaustion (re snapping at backers in IRC) trying to implement their ill-conceived web store project. Which is still not working. Actual game development is on hold for the moment...
The ready-made web shop is the first example of SBS's development plan in action.
By using ready-made packages like this web shop, SBS estimates that they can cut the normal MMO development time by more than half !
Except that this first demonstration of their business plan in action has revealed that that plan is seriously flawed...
Do you even know what it takes to do all that stuff properly? If you do, you are welcome to present suggestions to the team of devs, you could even ask for a job in Soulstone if you are so awesome.
Either way, take a chill pill you poo stirrer. They've got plenty of time to do whatever the duck they want and they've just came out of a kickstarter.
When the Kickstarter ended, SBS had roughly 18 months to complete the game, according to their promised deadline.
They now have 17 months, but they appear to be working themselves to exhaustion (re snapping at backers in IRC) trying to implement their ill-conceived web store project. Which is still not working. Actual game development is on hold for the moment...
The ready-made web shop is the first example of SBS's development plan in action.
By using ready-made packages like this web shop, SBS estimates that they can cut the normal MMO development time by more than half !
Except that this first demonstration of their business plan in action has revealed that that plan is seriously flawed...
Keep in mind that their 3 month no wipe headstart for heavy donors starts 3 months earlier. If Dec is the promised full release that means Sept is the month for headstart. That's just 14 months from now.
Like I said earlier, hopefully they take something from this fiasco, and revise their timeline before opening the store and selling promises they probably can't keep again.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
When the Kickstarter ended, SBS had roughly 18 months to complete the game, according to their promised deadline.
They now have 17 months, but they appear to be working themselves to exhaustion (re snapping at backers in IRC) trying to implement their ill-conceived web store project. Which is still not working. Actual game development is on hold for the moment...
The ready-made web shop is the first example of SBS's development plan in action.
By using ready-made packages like this web shop, SBS estimates that they can cut the normal MMO development time by more than half !
Except that this first demonstration of their business plan in action has revealed that that plan is seriously flawed...
Keep in mind that their 3 month no wipe headstart for heavy donors starts 3 months earlier. If Dec is the promised full release that means Sept is the month for headstart. That's just 14 months from now.
Like I said earlier, hopefully they take something from this fiasco, and revise their timeline before opening the store and selling promises they probably can't keep again.
except thats an estimated time of delivery.. which is subject to change, just ask star citizen about that one.
and i'm not having a dig at SC they can take all the time they need, but they had a "delivery date" and have well surpassed it by now... because an estimated time of delivery isn't a hard release.
So they missed a deadline and explained why. Then they took steps to remedy the situation and it hasn't worked out as planned. I agree with them; bitching doesn't help. Things aren't always going to go perfectly during a development cycle. People need to take a deep breath and relax or not back projects.
See I learned my lesson about kickstarter. It is nothing but a tool for con-artists and liars to legally steal money. In the 6 years I have backed things on kickstarter NOTHING ever delivered anything close to what they promised. I was very tempted by CoE backing the project twice but pulling my backing due to WAY too many HUGE promises. There is ZERO possibility ANY studio even a AAA studio could deliver HALF the stuff CoE has promised as soon as that realization hit me I realized this is just another con artist scam in the making.
When the Kickstarter ended, SBS had roughly 18 months to complete the game, according to their promised deadline.
They now have 17 months, but they appear to be working themselves to exhaustion (re snapping at backers in IRC) trying to implement their ill-conceived web store project. Which is still not working. Actual game development is on hold for the moment...
The ready-made web shop is the first example of SBS's development plan in action.
By using ready-made packages like this web shop, SBS estimates that they can cut the normal MMO development time by more than half !
Except that this first demonstration of their business plan in action has revealed that that plan is seriously flawed...
Keep in mind that their 3 month no wipe headstart for heavy donors starts 3 months earlier. If Dec is the promised full release that means Sept is the month for headstart. That's just 14 months from now.
Like I said earlier, hopefully they take something from this fiasco, and revise their timeline before opening the store and selling promises they probably can't keep again.
except thats an estimated time of delivery.. which is subject to change, just ask star citizen about that one.
and i'm not having a dig at SC they can take all the time they need, but they had a "delivery date" and have well surpassed it by now... because an estimated time of delivery isn't a hard release.
It seems to me this was not the line being pushed only a month ago then it was stated with apparently absolute conviction that the game would be released on time and in full.
When the Kickstarter ended, SBS had roughly 18 months to complete the game, according to their promised deadline.
They now have 17 months, but they appear to be working themselves to exhaustion (re snapping at backers in IRC) trying to implement their ill-conceived web store project. Which is still not working. Actual game development is on hold for the moment...
The ready-made web shop is the first example of SBS's development plan in action.
By using ready-made packages like this web shop, SBS estimates that they can cut the normal MMO development time by more than half !
Except that this first demonstration of their business plan in action has revealed that that plan is seriously flawed...
Keep in mind that their 3 month no wipe headstart for heavy donors starts 3 months earlier. If Dec is the promised full release that means Sept is the month for headstart. That's just 14 months from now.
Like I said earlier, hopefully they take something from this fiasco, and revise their timeline before opening the store and selling promises they probably can't keep again.
except thats an estimated time of delivery.. which is subject to change, just ask star citizen about that one.
and i'm not having a dig at SC they can take all the time they need, but they had a "delivery date" and have well surpassed it by now... because an estimated time of delivery isn't a hard release.
Sure but does that mean you can just make up a date? If you are asking someone for money and ESTIMATING a date for delivery... it should be a good and reasonable estimate. Even most of the SBS supporters acknowledge that their published dates seem unrealistic. As I said, they should take something away from this fiasco. Their whole dev process seems to be based on a similar concept of buying various pre-made pieces and putting them together. This should stand as a lesson that there are going to be lots of setbacks and modifications required. This should stand as a lesson to UNDER promise and OVER deliver. Set a more realistic date of Dec 2018 as the release and hey if you actually beat that date you will get kudos.
Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Sure but does that mean you can just make up a date? If you are asking someone for money and ESTIMATING a date for delivery... it should be a good and reasonable estimate. Even most of the SBS supporters acknowledge that their published dates seem unrealistic. As I said, they should take something away from this fiasco. Their whole dev process seems to be based on a similar concept of buying various pre-made pieces and putting them together. This should stand as a lesson that there are going to be lots of setbacks and modifications required. This should stand as a lesson to UNDER promise and OVER deliver. Set a more realistic date of Dec 2018 as the release and hey if you actually beat that date you will get kudos.
so i wrote a reply, but it didnt post it for some reason...
anyway tldr of old post - i believe they have learned something that's why they are hiring a web developer and we can only hope in the future they foresee complications before they arise
When the Kickstarter ended, SBS had roughly 18 months to complete the game, according to their promised deadline.
They now have 17 months, but they appear to be working themselves to exhaustion (re snapping at backers in IRC) trying to implement their ill-conceived web store project. Which is still not working. Actual game development is on hold for the moment...
The ready-made web shop is the first example of SBS's development plan in action.
By using ready-made packages like this web shop, SBS estimates that they can cut the normal MMO development time by more than half !
Except that this first demonstration of their business plan in action has revealed that that plan is seriously flawed...
Keep in mind that their 3 month no wipe headstart for heavy donors starts 3 months earlier. If Dec is the promised full release that means Sept is the month for headstart. That's just 14 months from now.
Like I said earlier, hopefully they take something from this fiasco, and revise their timeline before opening the store and selling promises they probably can't keep again.
except thats an estimated time of delivery.. which is subject to change, just ask star citizen about that one.
and i'm not having a dig at SC they can take all the time they need, but they had a "delivery date" and have well surpassed it by now... because an estimated time of delivery isn't a hard release.
It seems to me this was not the line being pushed only a month ago then it was stated with apparently absolute conviction that the game would be released on time and in full.
i'm happy to take that on board if you can link a source.. but as it stands from my point of view, they have an estimated time of delivery and thats it, not saying you're lying i would have no doubt they would have boasted that they can deliver it by then, but even then that doesn't legally bind them to a shipping date, or else they would have hard release date.. not estimated time of arrival... they might be cocky, but they arent completely stupid.
Comments
is it professional no, but workers are still human too, they don't deserve sub human treatment because you're the customer... "the customer is always right" only gets you so far when you wanna act like a pig.
that being said, they didn't whine at the players they made a statement basically saying "complaining isn't going to fix things quicker" which is fair enough it's a true statement and honestly for the most part a small indy team trying to be transparent and act more like bro's to the community, what do you expect.. you can't have your cake and eat it too.
The real question is are they in business and expecting to be treated as professionals or are they trying to run a kid's lemonade stand?
but i do agree they need to establish if they wanna be the professional company or the bro's of game development and then act accordingly.
Much ado over not much.
Kickstarter developments should be expected to run a little rough. Hopefully this will help act as a thoughtful example to puffed up 'armchair developers' that things aren't as simple once you are actually doing it.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Well, good thing for Soulbound Studios that there are white knight apologists like yourself to clean up their messes for them! Heaven knows where we'd be as a species if there wasn't always the one guy in the crowd bending over backwards to make excuses for bad behavior.
You know what? Here's a radical idea: how about the people trying to sell something to us not treat their current and potential customers like a bunch of assholes? Gee, what a concept!
They aren't telling the customers to fix or do anything, they are asking the customers to wait patiently while a things are fixed.
And I am the one supposed have trouble with basic concepts...?
And I am the one supposed have trouble with basic concepts...?
Yes it's literally the same thing, he worded it poorly but yes it's the same.
They now have 17 months, but they appear to be working themselves to exhaustion (re snapping at backers in IRC) trying to implement their ill-conceived web store project. Which is still not working. Actual game development is on hold for the moment...
The ready-made web shop is the first example of SBS's development plan in action.
By using ready-made packages like this web shop, SBS estimates that they can cut the normal MMO development time by more than half !
Except that this first demonstration of their business plan in action has revealed that that plan is seriously flawed...
Either way, take a chill pill you poo stirrer. They've got plenty of time to do whatever the duck they want and they've just came out of a kickstarter.
[mod edit]
Apparently, neither does SBS !
The difference being that I didn't raise $1.3M by promising to do something that I couldn't...
Like I said earlier, hopefully they take something from this fiasco, and revise their timeline before opening the store and selling promises they probably can't keep again.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
and i'm not having a dig at SC they can take all the time they need, but they had a "delivery date" and have well surpassed it by now... because an estimated time of delivery isn't a hard release.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018