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Website/Store fiasco continues- Dev tells fans that criticizing them does not help...

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  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,504
    Nyctelios said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Well, as long as Star Citizen keeps pumping out jpeg ships for sale and continues to miss deadline after deadline for completing the game of any sort, than perhaps it's not so bad for SBS to be late a few times considering it's not been 4 years since they started development.
    Wth is your deal with SC? 

    Nobody is talking about it

    For the Holy Serra.
    i believe it's called perspective.. and it's fair point.
  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    Apparently they are going to bed and the website and store will be down again until at least tomorrow.  Dev had the time to remind people that being critical of their utter inability to hit their 1st post kickstarter deliverable with 3 delays and then a website meltdown really doesn't help anything.

    " we recognize this process has gone on longer than we'd have liked, and we really appreciate all those who recognize that being critical of us, or the fact we don't have dedicated web developers yet, really doesn't help anything. So thanks again for your patience."

    Source:
    https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ZfQYNgyN/


    As with all Kickstarters it comes down to the company's ability to deliver on what they promise and in the time frame they promise it.  In no way, shape or form can this fiasco give anyone confidence in their ability to deliver.  So far they had one deliverable post kickstarter and they have utterly failed even after multiple delays.

    These guys aren't professionals, what are you expecting?

    If you chose to give money to these monkeys you're going to get peanuts, start chewing.
  • winghaven1winghaven1 Member RarePosts: 736
    OP needs to get out more if a store for an unfinished game is bothering him. Who cares? 

    It will get done when it gets done. Why are you in a rush for it? Will it change your life?
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    The issue here is not simply that they are "a little late"...

    The success of this entire project is based on the fact that they are going to utilize ready-made software solutions to dramatically speed up development AND hugely reduce the manpower needed to do that development.

    The first step on that road was to buy a ready-made web shop and implement it quickly and with minimum fuss. So far they have spectacularly failed to meet their own estimated deadline. Twice.

    What does that say about their plans to use similar methodologies to deliver this highly ambitious game design ?

    DING DING DING!!!!

    We have a winner!!!

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Nilden said:
    Not exactly inspiring a boat load of confidence if the team making a MMORPG has trouble with a webpage.
    As inspiring as a website dedicated to reporting MMORPG's that can't even upgrade their own website...the ONLY thing they do?

    Too many 'experts' who know fuck all with an opinion because it is easy to criticize when you are an anonymous nobody on a website.  
  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    edited July 2016
    I really think many mmorpg gamers need a reality check, all the major AAA companies have abandoned this genre (outside of currently running projects).  You have to lower your expectations way down, if not for these amateurs there would be no new mmorpg titles.

     I can see it now, the mass hate and outrage from people who expect triple A mmorpg standard releases, triple A graphics engines and large patches complaining because they can't login on release day or because they don't have large monthly patches.

    The market has changed, you either need to change with it and lower your sky high standards or see the amateur companies evacuate this genre too.

    [mod edit]
    Post edited by Vaross on
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    Nilden said:
    Not exactly inspiring a boat load of confidence if the team making a MMORPG has trouble with a webpage.
    As inspiring as a website dedicated to reporting MMORPG's that can't even upgrade their own website...the ONLY thing they do?

    Too many 'experts' who know fuck all with an opinion because it is easy to criticize when you are an anonymous nobody on a website.  
    Actually he is right but then some people are blinded into believing otherwise.

    For starters they should have HIRED a web programmer to do the job and get it right rather than try to be professional web developers.

    Secondly they have a list of features that will require a lot more knowledge than most professional IT, programmers will be capable of achieving with a budget that's just won't meet the required monies.

    This is just another rocket ship with a leaking fuel tank that will probably blow up on the launch pad.
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • holdenfiveholdenfive Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Very unprofessional way of handling complaints. As a company, whether the complaints are justified or not is irrelevant. You dont lose your composure and also expect consumers to believe you capable of leading a project or a company. From the start Ive been saying they look like bush league show ponies and they continue to provide subswtance to this belief. The inadequate toddler like meltdown pending when they face real issues with public relations due to dissatisfaction will be comedy gold. Assuming they even make it that far, which remains to be seen.
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    ArChWind said:
    Nilden said:
    Not exactly inspiring a boat load of confidence if the team making a MMORPG has trouble with a webpage.
    As inspiring as a website dedicated to reporting MMORPG's that can't even upgrade their own website...the ONLY thing they do?

    Too many 'experts' who know fuck all with an opinion because it is easy to criticize when you are an anonymous nobody on a website.  
    Actually he is right but then some people are blinded into believing otherwise.

    For starters they should have HIRED a web programmer to do the job and get it right rather than try to be professional web developers.

    Secondly they have a list of features that will require a lot more knowledge than most professional IT, programmers will be capable of achieving with a budget that's just won't meet the required monies.

    This is just another rocket ship with a leaking fuel tank that will probably blow up on the launch pad.
    Do you know how my builders in my industry that even have a website let alone know how to create one and publish it?

    Not many because they are builders not web designers. If they can build a brick wall I could care less if they have a website with fancy graphics. 

    Same with game designers. I could care less if they have a fancy website, I care if they can make a game. 

    Being critical about something that is in relative terms unimportant just show how petty and self involved the community has become and it is really disappointing. They have a small team and when looking at priorities for spending I am glad they would rather hire a computer programmer over a web designer. 
  • DrakenhoffDrakenhoff Member UncommonPosts: 301
    Not such a big deal from my perspective.

    But then again, I did not support this game by any pledge, so I am not so much concerned with their ability to deliver what they promised. I can imagine that people who pledged are more worried about missed deadlines.

    That is the beauty of supporting the games only after they release.
    I supported he game in kickstarter and I am happy with my choice still.

    Also to all those moaning half of you haven't supported the game so why bother moaning, whining and criticising about the developers and the game.

    Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    The issue here is not simply that they are "a little late"...

    The success of this entire project is based on the fact that they are going to utilize ready-made software solutions to dramatically speed up development AND hugely reduce the manpower needed to do that development.

    The first step on that road was to buy a ready-made web shop and implement it quickly and with minimum fuss. So far they have spectacularly failed to meet their own estimated deadline. Twice.

    What does that say about their plans to use similar methodologies to deliver this highly ambitious game design ?

    What it says is they won't be making their release deadlines, but then many of us didn't think they would anyways, this only helps to prove a point and really isn't as big a deal as it seems to be turning out to be.

    Do people really need to say "I told you so" and gloat that badly?

    Apparently so.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    Ok I am not going to make excuses for SBS as they have delayed their first release due to unforseen problems.

    But I have a question for all those "experts" and "moaners" here. How many of you would be willing to work till midnight on a Friday and Saturday to remedy a situation like this?
    I've put 18 hours a day into playing MMO's in the past.  If I were making them it would probably be about the same, nothing like doing what you really enjoy.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    ...
    ... They have a small team and when looking at priorities for spending I am glad they would rather hire a computer programmer over a web designer. 
    Let's analyse that statement, shall we ?

    This small team looked at the available ready-made web store offerings, and then selected one which they thought would be suitable to their specific needs. How they came to that decision is unknown. 

    When it came around to implementation, they discovered that they had bought something that in fact could not do what they had thought it could. Failure #1.

    So to save money (?), they attempted to modify the ready-made package themselves, even though they did not have the required skills. They thought they could "wing it". They were wrong. Failure #2.

    They then have the nerve to ask everyone to stop criticising them, because they don't actually have the skills required to do what they are trying to do, and are "trying their best". In short, their failure is not their fault ! Failure #3

    This is the same team that thinks they can produce a highly ambitious MMORPG design in record time and with minimum manpower because they will be using ready-made software solutions throughout.

    So far, SBS has made a string of poor decisions, all of which have been technical or development oriented. They look like rank amateurs at this point. It does not inspire confidence, given what they are claiming they will do.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    ...
    ... They have a small team and when looking at priorities for spending I am glad they would rather hire a computer programmer over a web designer. 
    Let's analyse that statement, shall we ?

    This small team looked at the available ready-made web store offerings, and then selected one which they thought would be suitable to their specific needs. How they came to that decision is unknown. 

    When it came around to implementation, they discovered that they had bought something that in fact could not do what they had thought it could. Failure #1.

    So to save money (?), they attempted to modify the ready-made package themselves, even though they did not have the required skills. They thought they could "wing it". They were wrong. Failure #2.

    They then have the nerve to ask everyone to stop criticising them, because they don't actually have the skills required to do what they are trying to do, and are "trying their best". In short, their failure is not their fault ! Failure #3

    This is the same team that thinks they can produce a highly ambitious MMORPG design in record time and with minimum manpower because they will be using ready-made software solutions throughout.

    So far, SBS has made a string of poor decisions, all of which have been technical or development oriented. They look like rank amateurs at this point. It does not inspire confidence, given what they are claiming they will do.
    You Sir, once again "get it".

    Well explained.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    ...
    ... They have a small team and when looking at priorities for spending I am glad they would rather hire a computer programmer over a web designer. 
    Let's analyse that statement, shall we ?

    This small team looked at the available ready-made web store offerings, and then selected one which they thought would be suitable to their specific needs. How they came to that decision is unknown. 

    When it came around to implementation, they discovered that they had bought something that in fact could not do what they had thought it could. Failure #1.

    So to save money (?), they attempted to modify the ready-made package themselves, even though they did not have the required skills. They thought they could "wing it". They were wrong. Failure #2.

    They then have the nerve to ask everyone to stop criticising them, because they don't actually have the skills required to do what they are trying to do, and are "trying their best". In short, their failure is not their fault ! Failure #3

    This is the same team that thinks they can produce a highly ambitious MMORPG design in record time and with minimum manpower because they will be using ready-made software solutions throughout.

    So far, SBS has made a string of poor decisions, all of which have been technical or development oriented. They look like rank amateurs at this point. It does not inspire confidence, given what they are claiming they will do.


    Failure 1 - Been there done that. 6 months of testing a new online in house purchasing system with interactive web-site...delayed 6 weeks because another department chose to make changes midway though our upgrade cycle and forgot to tell us which threw a spanner in the works. Like most things IT based, you really do have to wing it even with the best preparation in the world because sometimes the most crazy stuff just doesn't work as you would expect. Until a system is in place most of the time you really are hoping all the pieces fit, no matter your level of competence. 

    Failure 2 - Having the right skills....do you know what skills were required and do you know they do not have them? Of course not but you assume all of that along with your other assumptions because it is easier to criticize without proof rather then find out. If they are winging it they are only 'wrong' if it never gets to work, delays are not unusual, especially when you have to include monetary functions including all the intricacies of foreign currency exchange. 

    Failure 3 - They are asking people what good moaning and bitching will do and they are right. It does fuck all good. Your assumption that they are being meanies is just that. Either grow a pair at take the delay like a grown up or continue crying. I agree with those sentiments as negativity is my least favorite 'qualities' in my fellow community members.

    A lot of assumptions and unknowns to put yourself forward as someone in the know...as usual, those with little to zero ACTUAL knowledge of what is going on are the most vocal when criticizing...because who is going to want to waste time countering made up shit right? Well I just wasted 10 minutes of my life for probably nothing at all. 

    But by all means, continue to bitch and moan about something you have no investment in, no interest in and certainly no relevant knowledge to impart your wisdom onto the masses. 
  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    It is perfectly fair to call out a company that took a whole bunch of "donated" money to do a project, and failed to hit several milestones.

    It is also perfectly fair to call out the company for complaining about people that are holding them to their promises.

    More and more, this looks like another example where a company over promised and under delivered.

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Ok I am not going to make excuses for SBS as they have delayed their first release due to unforseen problems.

    But I have a question for all those "experts" and "moaners" here. How many of you would be willing to work till midnight on a Friday and Saturday to remedy a situation like this?
    Standard business actually, especially when you're revenue sharing on a project. The more money a person makes and the more accountability they have to the end result the more you'll see a willingness to go above and beyond to accomplish a task. Especially when it's a self imposed ETA. People usually want to meet ETAs to maintain professional integrity.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    ....


    ... 

    Failure 2 - Having the right skills....do you know what skills were required and do you know they do not have them? Of course not but you assume all of that along with your other assumptions because it is easier to criticize without proof rather then find out. If they are winging it they are only 'wrong' if it never gets to work, delays are not unusual, especially when you have to include monetary functions including all the intricacies of foreign currency exchange. 

    ... 
    I know they don't have the required skills, because they said so:

    "...or the fact we don't have dedicated web developers yet..."


    Your anecdotes about the software implementation that you observed at some point are vaguely interesting but completely irrelevant. Stick to things you know something about, like the construction industry...

    If a team says they can do something amazing, then I expect them to act accordingly, not fall flat on their faces when they take the first step.

    This team are promising to do what no other team has managed to do in the history of MMORPG development. Yet implementing a ready-made web shop has floored them...
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    ArChWind said:
    Nilden said:
    Not exactly inspiring a boat load of confidence if the team making a MMORPG has trouble with a webpage.
    As inspiring as a website dedicated to reporting MMORPG's that can't even upgrade their own website...the ONLY thing they do?

    Too many 'experts' who know fuck all with an opinion because it is easy to criticize when you are an anonymous nobody on a website.  
    Actually he is right but then some people are blinded into believing otherwise.

    For starters they should have HIRED a web programmer to do the job and get it right rather than try to be professional web developers.

    Secondly they have a list of features that will require a lot more knowledge than most professional IT, programmers will be capable of achieving with a budget that's just won't meet the required monies.

    This is just another rocket ship with a leaking fuel tank that will probably blow up on the launch pad.
    Do you know how my builders in my industry that even have a website let alone know how to create one and publish it?

    Not many because they are builders not web designers. If they can build a brick wall I could care less if they have a website with fancy graphics. 

    Same with game designers. I could care less if they have a fancy website, I care if they can make a game. 

    Being critical about something that is in relative terms unimportant just show how petty and self involved the community has become and it is really disappointing. They have a small team and when looking at priorities for spending I am glad they would rather hire a computer programmer over a web designer. 
    It's not about being critical as much as doubt if they can even get a simple system working let alone a complex system which is probably ten times more involved.

    A MMORPG like they say they are making  is probably 90% database driven and 10% code.
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    ....


    ... 

    Failure 2 - Having the right skills....do you know what skills were required and do you know they do not have them? Of course not but you assume all of that along with your other assumptions because it is easier to criticize without proof rather then find out. If they are winging it they are only 'wrong' if it never gets to work, delays are not unusual, especially when you have to include monetary functions including all the intricacies of foreign currency exchange. 

    ... 
    I know they don't have the required skills, because they said so:

    "...or the fact we don't have dedicated web developers yet..."


    Your anecdotes about the software implementation that you observed at some point are vaguely interesting but completely irrelevant. Stick to things you know something about, like the construction industry...

    If a team says they can do something amazing, then I expect them to act accordingly, not fall flat on their faces when they take the first step.

    This team are promising to do what no other team has managed to do in the history of MMORPG development. Yet implementing a ready-made web shop has floored them...
    Sorry buddy. The construction industry is where I invested my money, I am a director in a construction business myself and 2 brothers put together. I made my money in IT.

    I was in charge of the design, development and release of a European web based IT purchase ordering system for a 60,000 strong employee base covering 13 European countries. So I do know what I am talking about....you?
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    ....


    ... 

    Failure 2 - Having the right skills....do you know what skills were required and do you know they do not have them? Of course not but you assume all of that along with your other assumptions because it is easier to criticize without proof rather then find out. If they are winging it they are only 'wrong' if it never gets to work, delays are not unusual, especially when you have to include monetary functions including all the intricacies of foreign currency exchange. 

    ... 
    I know they don't have the required skills, because they said so:

    "...or the fact we don't have dedicated web developers yet..."


    Your anecdotes about the software implementation that you observed at some point are vaguely interesting but completely irrelevant. Stick to things you know something about, like the construction industry...

    If a team says they can do something amazing, then I expect them to act accordingly, not fall flat on their faces when they take the first step.

    This team are promising to do what no other team has managed to do in the history of MMORPG development. Yet implementing a ready-made web shop has floored them...
    Sorry buddy. The construction industry is where I invested my money, I am a director in a construction business myself and 2 brothers put together. I made my money in IT.

    I was in charge of the design, development and release of a European web based IT purchase ordering system for a 60,000 strong employee base covering 13 European countries. So I do know what I am talking about....you?
    My bad, it wasn't clear from your anecdote that you were in charge of that project that went so badly off the rails... :D 

    I have 28 years as a business software developer, with (amongst others) participation in half a dozen multi-million dollar projects at Fortune-500 companies in 4 different countries.

    But you don't need that to use plain old common sense.

    I repeat: "If a team SAYS they can do extraordinary things, then I expect them to perform accordingly."
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    ....


    ... 

    Failure 2 - Having the right skills....do you know what skills were required and do you know they do not have them? Of course not but you assume all of that along with your other assumptions because it is easier to criticize without proof rather then find out. If they are winging it they are only 'wrong' if it never gets to work, delays are not unusual, especially when you have to include monetary functions including all the intricacies of foreign currency exchange. 

    ... 
    I know they don't have the required skills, because they said so:

    "...or the fact we don't have dedicated web developers yet..."


    Your anecdotes about the software implementation that you observed at some point are vaguely interesting but completely irrelevant. Stick to things you know something about, like the construction industry...

    If a team says they can do something amazing, then I expect them to act accordingly, not fall flat on their faces when they take the first step.

    This team are promising to do what no other team has managed to do in the history of MMORPG development. Yet implementing a ready-made web shop has floored them...
    Sorry buddy. The construction industry is where I invested my money, I am a director in a construction business myself and 2 brothers put together. I made my money in IT.

    I was in charge of the design, development and release of a European web based IT purchase ordering system for a 60,000 strong employee base covering 13 European countries. So I do know what I am talking about....you?
    In my job I hire companies to deliver systems like you describe.  We build in penalties when they fail to hit their deadlines or utterly fail to deliver promised functionality.  They are promising to deliver something.  When they fail I don't give 2 shits about their excuses for being inept.  We simply withhold payment.  That's one of the issues with Crowdfunding everything in advance.  

    Yup things are complicated
    Nope... don't really care.

    The COMPANY is the one that said they could do it
    The COMPANY is the one that took money to deliver

    So again, to quote from above:

    If a team says they can do something amazing, then I expect them to act accordingly, not fall flat on their faces when they take the first step. 

    This team are promising to do what no other team has managed to do in the history of MMORPG development. Yet implementing a ready-made web shop has floored them...


    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • VucarVucar Member UncommonPosts: 311
    Real talk:

    I am disappointed not by the missed deadlines, but by the way negative criticism is being handled. Showing what appears to be an emotional response to harsh scrutiny hurts SBS far, far more than missing their own ETA on a website.

    I had no expectation the website would be done Friday, or this weekend. I don't care about that. 

    I do not expect it will release by the end of 2017 either. I don't care about that either. 

    These things take time.

    During that time, I hope SBS becomes stone-faced against what will only be harsher criticism, and during that time, i think everyone in this thread needs a rum and coke. 
  • DrakenhoffDrakenhoff Member UncommonPosts: 301
    Wow all these experts coming out of the wood works all of a sudden....

    Strange they didn't mention their "experience" in he field all the other times they were asked.

    Do I believe any of them?
    Simple answer is no

    Longer answer is that it is easy to say your an expert of something, would love to see proof just like when all of you asked for proof that SBS had talented people in its staff.

    Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Wow all these experts coming out of the wood works all of a sudden....

    Strange they didn't mention their "experience" in he field all the other times they were asked.

    Do I believe any of them?
    Simple answer is no

    Longer answer is that it is easy to say your an expert of something, would love to see proof just like when all of you asked for proof that SBS had talented people in its staff.
    Umm.. the only people SELLING stuff are CoE...
    The only people promising to do amazing new things, in an amazingly short time, with an amazingly low budget are CoE...
    The only people who have failed to deliver so far have been CoE...
    The only people whining about how hard it is and how people shouldn't criticize them...yup.. that's CoE too

    When I ask you to give me money I'll be happy to prove my credential.

    Rule #1
    Say what you mean and do what you say

    Rule #2
    When you fail at rule #1, apologize and take the criticism.  Don't whine about it. 

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

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