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Isn't it illegal to ask fans to hype you on mmorpg.com?

slagathoreslagathore Member UncommonPosts: 31
"Vote for COE - http://bit.ly/coevotehype" posted at the top of their IRC channel.

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Comments

  • HengistHengist Member UncommonPosts: 1,090
    Which law exactly are they breaking that makes it illegal?

    Or do you mean unethical?

    Either way, does it really matter?
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321
    Baikal said:
    Which law exactly are they breaking that makes it illegal?
    Rules by mmorpg.com:

    PLEASE NOTE: Manipulation of the hype-meter will result in the reset and disabling of this game's ratings. Examples of manipulation include (but are not limited to): creating multiple accounts in order to drive up the rating, developers encouraging fans to vote the rating to a specific number, and the offering of incentives for fans to vote up the rating (such as in-game rewards).

     

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,174
    So more of a rule than a law.

    relevant link
    http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=#ChroniclesOfElyria

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,691
    edited July 2016
    It's legal to ask your users to vote for you as long as you aren't giving people anything for voting. Also nowadays it's common to ask your users for votes, especially mobile apps do that a lot. With how common it's becoming I wouldn't even judge COE's actions unethical.

    EDIT: I didn't notice that MMORPG.com's rule is only about encouraging people to vote to a specific number. In that case COE isn't even breaking the rule just by encouraging voting, and I'm sorry for critisizing MMORPG.com rule earlier. /EDIT
    Post edited by Vrika on
     
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Vrika said:
    It's legal to ask your users to vote for you as long as you aren't giving people anything for voting. Also nowadays it's common to ask your users for votes, especially mobile apps do that a lot. With how common it's becoming I wouldn't even judge COE's actions unethical.

    I think MMORPG.com's rule is outdated.
    A rule, much the same as a law, is usually classed as being, out of date, or out of touch with modern 'things' in some way, when it becomes a personal inconvenience.
    And yes, i would most certainly class what they are doing as being unethical.

    What your really saying, is not that MMORPG.com's rule is outdated, but that MMORPG.com's rule is inconvenient.
  • JeromyWalshJeromyWalsh Soulbound StudiosMember UncommonPosts: 134
    Hey folks, someone came into our IRC recently raising awareness of this thread. Here's what I posted just before they left the channel:

    "Thanks for raising awareness. We encourage people to go vote on MMORPG.com, on all games, as a way to drive traffic to MMORPG.com. We never encourage people to vote high, and in fact, are always very careful never to tell people *how* to vote, only that they do."

    If community members feel it's a 3, 5, 8, or whatever, they're encouraged to vote honestly.

    And per the rules, in spite of having a system in place for granting community members a form of virtual currency, we have never, nor will ever, offer Influence for voting for CoE here on MMORPG.com. We believe in the spirit of the rules laid out by MMORPG.com. Which is, we feel it's fine to let people know they *can* vote here for their favorite games, but will never tell them how to vote, nor encourage them to vote a specific way, either through expressed or implied rewards.

    Jeromy Walsh, 
    Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
    ChroniclesOfElyria.com
  • galjingaljin Member UncommonPosts: 15
    Gdemami said:
    Baikal said:
    Which law exactly are they breaking that makes it illegal?
    Rules by mmorpg.com:

    PLEASE NOTE: Manipulation of the hype-meter will result in the reset and disabling of this game's ratings. Examples of manipulation include (but are not limited to): creating multiple accounts in order to drive up the rating, developers encouraging fans to vote the rating to a specific number, and the offering of incentives for fans to vote up the rating (such as in-game rewards).

     

    developers encouraging fans to vote the rating to a specific number, and the offering of incentives for fans to vote up the rating (such as in-game rewards)

    Devs encourage voting but do not ask for any specific number, I myself voted a 7 just because that's what i think about the game.

    Also, anyone thinking otherwise would just be salty on the game receiving good votes. I would remind you that Archeage and Black Desert also had a lot of high numbered votes... and look at them now. Vote rating in mmorpg is just to appear in the lists. The higher the ranking, the larger the font used for it, more will people notice it to learn about it, get interested and vote. Doesn't necessarily means the game will be good.

    And I also agree on the does it really matter?
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242
    It is in the range of standard "follow us on Twitter, like us on Facebook". Well - how (im)moral it is, especially today?
     W...aaagh?
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    It is in the range of standard "follow us on Twitter, like us on Facebook". Well - how (im)moral it is, especially today?
    Not really, when you follow things on twitter your essentially getting a 'news feed' from them, and if you decide to do the same thing on Facebook, your essentially joining a group of people with the same interests, although both do tend to have something of a negative perception, particularly twitter.
    Thats not the same as attempting to manipulate a games scores through strategic voting.
  • DrakenhoffDrakenhoff Member UncommonPosts: 301
    They are not trying to manipulate by asking people to vote. I saw that months ago but I've never been forced or felt obliged to vote. 

    In fact I haven't yet voted. So thanks for the reminder whilst I'm on the site

    Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    They are not trying to manipulate by asking people to vote. I saw that months ago but I've never been forced or felt obliged to vote. 

    In fact I haven't yet voted. So thanks for the reminder whilst I'm on the site
    It doesn't mean the score is invalid, but there will be a perception that the score the game has is not a credible one, and it will unfortunately be a perception that cannot be disproved. :o
  • DrakenhoffDrakenhoff Member UncommonPosts: 301
    Well I voted a 9. 

    My reason, I check updates and forums for CoE news daily. I play alongside my CoE guild who I met on the forums 2-3 times a week.
    I have even used to dream of CoE. ...

    So my hype is high hence the score. The only reason it didn't get a 10 was because I have a few concerns about the scope

    Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard

  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242
    Phry said:
    It is in the range of standard "follow us on Twitter, like us on Facebook". Well - how (im)moral it is, especially today?
    Not really, when you follow things on twitter your essentially getting a 'news feed' from them, and if you decide to do the same thing on Facebook, your essentially joining a group of people with the same interests, although both do tend to have something of a negative perception, particularly twitter.
    Thats not the same as attempting to manipulate a games scores through strategic voting.
    Hey, thanks for that FB/Twitter info.
     W...aaagh?
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321
    edited July 2016
    galjin said:
    Devs encourage voting but do not ask for any specific number, I myself voted a 7 just because that's what i think about the game.
    Where am I saying devs or you did any of that...?

    I just posted rules the poster was questioning.
  • MaygusMaygus Member UncommonPosts: 374
    fwiw - I actually generated that link and put it in the topic prior.
    Visit the Chronicles of Elyria official site and the Official Wiki... an upcoming MMO from Soulbound Studios with real consequences to your actions.
    Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!

    If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,270
    This is the second time I am seeing this illegal argument. Have we got some budding ill qualified lawyers in our midst ?

  • winghaven1winghaven1 Member RarePosts: 714
    edited July 2016
    It's not illegal to ask to vote. It even says so in the rule. HOWEVER, it is illegal to ask to vote for a specific number. It's encouraging people to check the vote tab and vote for themselves but not to vote for it to be a really good one, in fact, some guy could vote for a really bad rating. End of story.

    Not illegal. 
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    kitarad said:
    This is the second time I am seeing this illegal argument. Have we got some budding ill qualified lawyers in our midst ?
    These forums are filled with "legal experts", lol

    They're particularly active in threads regarding KS projects and general posts regarding refunds, bannings, ToS violations, etc.

    It's quite scary sometimes when you see how much people think they know...
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    kitarad said:
    This is the second time I am seeing this illegal argument. Have we got some budding ill qualified lawyers in our midst ?
    These forums are filled with "legal experts", lol

    They're particularly active in threads regarding KS projects and general posts regarding refunds, bannings, ToS violations, etc.

    It's quite scary sometimes when you see how much people think they know...
    Yes, you only have to read about the more recent CS:GO gambling debacle, to see how much people think they know vs reality.
  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 883
    kitarad said:
    This is the second time I am seeing this illegal argument. Have we got some budding ill qualified lawyers in our midst ?
    These forums are filled with "legal experts", lol

    It's quite scary sometimes when you see how much people think they know...
    Dont forget "game developers" too.

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,350
    Report the issue with this site and then we can see if the meter gets removed?

    COE has been a recent supporter here,so i am guessing mmorpg will ignore it.

    As to laws,most lawyers are not capable of upholding law,they are merely there to talk the talk.MANY laws are worded in a way that leaves way too much open for argument.

    Example YES there is law about unethical marketing practices ,in some countries and different from region to region.However most all law involved is with actual sales,in this case no sale but DOES lead to sales with enough positive hype.That is the big problem with law,as i stated too much room for interpretation and since no real money is involved,nobody is going to start u pa law suit.

    Now if the game  was taking multiple thousands from some naive person,then yes perhaps some suit could be taken and lawyers might step in on behalf of that person and work for a % but highly unlikely.

    None the less,i repeat YES there are ethical laws when comes to marketing.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,280
    kitarad said:
    This is the second time I am seeing this illegal argument. Have we got some budding ill qualified lawyers in our midst ?
    These forums are filled with "legal experts", lol

    They're particularly active in threads regarding KS projects and general posts regarding refunds, bannings, ToS violations, etc.

    It's quite scary sometimes when you see how much people think they know...
    I am going to sue you for questioning people credentials
  • DrakenhoffDrakenhoff Member UncommonPosts: 301
    Wizardry said:
    Report the issue with this site and then we can see if the meter gets removed?

    COE has been a recent supporter here,so i am guessing mmorpg will ignore it.

    As to laws,most lawyers are not capable of upholding law,they are merely there to talk the talk.MANY laws are worded in a way that leaves way too much open for argument.

    Example YES there is law about unethical marketing practices ,in some countries and different from region to region.However most all law involved is with actual sales,in this case no sale but DOES lead to sales with enough positive hype.That is the big problem with law,as i stated too much room for interpretation and since no real money is involved,nobody is going to start u pa law suit.

    Now if the game  was taking multiple thousands from some naive person,then yes perhaps some suit could be taken and lawyers might step in on behalf of that person and work for a % but highly unlikely.

    None the less,i repeat YES there are ethical laws when comes to marketing.
    These forums are filled with "legal experts", lol

    They're particularly active in threads regarding KS projects and general posts regarding refunds, bannings, ToS violations, etc.

    It's quite scary sometimes when you see how much people think they know...
    Point game and match by Spotty Geckko

    Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard

  • MikeBMikeB Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,540
    edited July 2016
    It's OK for a developer to ask their fans to vote for their game here. What's not OK is if they ask fans to vote a certain rating or to vote for some sort of reward. Just saying "Hey vote for us at MMORPG.com" is ok.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,630
    What makes you think that the point of the rating system isn't to encourage game developers to send people to this site?
This discussion has been closed.