People will play most of the game solo and get to end game and can't play worth a crap in groups.
So what, that's what socialization is all about, helping others learn. You also just highlighted why many do not play in groups, this type of judgmental attitude is one of the most detrimental things to socialized gaming there is.
I see people who cry for socialization in games as people who normally cant make friends on their own and likely have control issues and need something to control and despite them trying to get friends in real life they often fail because of this problem so they look to gaming to provide them with a platform so that they can control others.
I am likely wrong but that is how I see those who cry for more socialization in gaming.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
People will play most of the game solo and get to end game and can't play worth a crap in groups.
So what, that's what socialization is all about, helping others learn. You also just highlighted why many do not play in groups, this type of judgmental attitude is one of the most detrimental things to socialized gaming there is.
So what. People play games to have fun, not to be "helpful" to socialized gaming. There is zero reason to tolerate anything one does not like about other players. You can always hit the quit group button, and find some other unknown strangers in 20 seconds.
I mostly solo in the MMORPG's that I play, because it suits my play style.
I like exploring. I like looking at the scenery. I dawdle.
I absolutely abhor racing through a dungeon at the highest possible speed, which is what EVERY group I've ever played with does.
God, do I HATE that one... It was one of the things that originally drove me away from the original DDO (back before they relaunched as a much more solo friendly MMO). Groups racing through the adventures, and spamming away all the story dialogues before I was even remotely in range to read them (fucking stealthers).
They do it in other games too, but it especially pissed me off there because it's DnD, and every adventure had its own story, of which I lost just about most of the dialogue thanks to the average MMO tool that only cares about getting the loot at the end.
I would sooner quit MMOs altogether than be forced to play shitty ones where I can't accomplish everything solo and I have to put up with people like that for all my time online.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Scaling is unrealistic, thus not the future for MMO's. Sorry @rojoArcueid, but obtaining gear, powers that actually allow me to do solo what many could do in a group by being better than others and putting more time and effort in the game is the more realistic approach.
Actually its the total opposite. Lets say someone is bullying you, do you magically get stronger by changing clothes? lol. No. You get a group of friends to beat the crap out of the bully, but he gets another group of bullies, and suddenly it becomes a bigger and more challenging fight. Sorry, couldnt think of a better example while keeping things as realistic as you want them to be. Depending on the type of encounter, gear alone, or difficulty scaling alone can work better than the other.
That or he pulls out an assault rifle. >: D (aka gear)
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I mostly solo in the MMORPG's that I play, because it suits my play style.
I like exploring. I like looking at the scenery. I dawdle.
I absolutely abhor racing through a dungeon at the highest possible speed, which is what EVERY group I've ever played with does.
In ESO, I explore every square inch of the map. I know the vast majority of players don't do that, because I almost never see anyone else on my wanderings. Only when I get close to the most "efficient" route between quest objectives do I see lots of other players.
The devs in ESO went to great lengths to place treasure chests in the weirdest places, often brilliantly hidden. Most of that work was wasted, because almost nobody bothers looking for them. The rewards from the chests are not considered to be "worth it" given the time needed to find them.
/salute
I love exploring. Finding that cave that is hard to get too, the pool table in city of heroes, that view from on top of the mountain. Don't need a reward of some in game ding, item, or achievement. Doing it because it is there!
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
When people engage in an activity they enjoy, they will do the thing they like, and they will try and do the most efficient form of what they like.
If they don't like something, they won't do it, path of least resistance or not, it's done for enjoyment. They may do something they dislike for a short period but only because they know they will do something they like soon.
Even if you ignore end game, grouping still delivers fasters xp, more coin and better/more loot during the leveling process. If you like to group, do it, they have all the advantages and tons of people are doing it.
I disagree. Players will do whatever gives them advantages or easiest if allowed in almost ever instance. Many players are unsatisfied with symptoms of their own gameplay choices.
Outside of competitive pvp what does that matter, disregarding the hypothetical nature of your claim.
Just means that given an option players will do whatever gives the best reward or fastest. Give a dungeon the worst story ever but highest quickest reward it will be your most popular.
When people engage in an activity they enjoy, they will do the thing they like, and they will try and do the most efficient form of what they like.
If they don't like something, they won't do it, path of least resistance or not, it's done for enjoyment. They may do something they dislike for a short period but only because they know they will do something they like soon.
Even if you ignore end game, grouping still delivers fasters xp, more coin and better/more loot during the leveling process. If you like to group, do it, they have all the advantages and tons of people are doing it.
I disagree. Players will do whatever gives them advantages or easiest if allowed in almost ever instance. Many players are unsatisfied with symptoms of their own gameplay choices.
Outside of competitive pvp what does that matter, disregarding the hypothetical nature of your claim.
Just means that given an option players will do whatever gives the best reward or fastest. Give a dungeon the worst story ever but highest quickest reward it will be your most popular.
You didn't answer the question, but that's okay. If what you say is true, and it's still wild speculation, it means that people don't care about grouping. They care about the progression.
There are apparently a lot of people who would rather do something for fun progression than have to be confined to contrived "grouping" as the only avenue for that progression. If grouping was that much fun people would do it anyway as a means to or in addition to progression. But it's apparently not that fun thus the complaints by you, the OP, and the others in your niche.
No...it was answered perfectly. You just didn't like the answer. Cause of your niche
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
When people engage in an activity they enjoy, they will do the thing they like, and they will try and do the most efficient form of what they like.
If they don't like something, they won't do it, path of least resistance or not, it's done for enjoyment. They may do something they dislike for a short period but only because they know they will do something they like soon.
Even if you ignore end game, grouping still delivers fasters xp, more coin and better/more loot during the leveling process. If you like to group, do it, they have all the advantages and tons of people are doing it.
I disagree. Players will do whatever gives them advantages or easiest if allowed in almost ever instance. Many players are unsatisfied with symptoms of their own gameplay choices.
Outside of competitive pvp what does that matter, disregarding the hypothetical nature of your claim.
Just means that given an option players will do whatever gives the best reward or fastest. Give a dungeon the worst story ever but highest quickest reward it will be your most popular.
You didn't answer the question, but that's okay. If what you say is true, and it's still wild speculation, it means that people don't care about grouping. They care about the progression.
There are apparently a lot of people who would rather do something for fun progression than have to be confined to contrived "grouping" as the only avenue for that progression. If grouping was that much fun people would do it anyway as a means to or in addition to progression. But it's apparently not that fun thus the complaints by you, the OP, and the others in your niche.
My niche was solo combat. I am not for forced grouped combat so your assumption is wrong. I believe in interdependency.
For example players complain about the death of open world PVP in WoW but will use the convenience features that cause it like flying mounts and queues.
GW2 is my main game now. And the reality is you keep hearing people want solo content. And they want content to be soloable.
But maybe that's the reason people play that game in the first place.
You also do hear people want hard group content. And that is comfined in dungeons and raid in the game.
Basically what I'm trying to say is GW2 tries to please everyone, weather they like group or single player content.
Many of the complaints on the forum basically want to eliminates players different from them in the game. Which really comes to hoping developers can focus on making different games for different types of players.
Torval said:
Your point is getting lost in empty sloganizing.
Nah, you are just both stuck in absolutes.
1) People are ultimately driven by fun/enjoyment.
2) People might do to an extent something "unfun" in order to achieve their object of enjoyment.
The threshold of "unfun" - in quantity and natures, varies from player to player.
Too much mob grinding was "unfun", thus mob grinding was to an extent replaced with quests - you still may grind bosses for rares.
Too much grouping is was "unfun", thus grouping was reduced - you still may do raids.
I really have to say... I'm tired of being criticized for soloing. Everyone plays their games differently, and what business is it of yours if I prefer to solo? None. So I'd really like to ask all of you to knock it off.
For example players complain about the death of open world PVP in WoW but will use the convenience features that cause it like flying mounts and queues.
who did? Players were complaining ABOUT the open world pvp because it impedes travel. Forced open world pvp is never really that popular, and that is why it is never brought back.
It's pretty simple for myself. I don't like having to rely on other people and their schedules to play a video game. When I had zero responsibility it was easy to get away with spending hours trying to get a group together, or do endgame in games like FFXI. Now, not so much.
When people engage in an activity they enjoy, they will do the thing they like, and they will try and do the most efficient form of what they like.
If they don't like something, they won't do it, path of least resistance or not, it's done for enjoyment. They may do something they dislike for a short period but only because they know they will do something they like soon.
Even if you ignore end game, grouping still delivers fasters xp, more coin and better/more loot during the leveling process. If you like to group, do it, they have all the advantages and tons of people are doing it.
I disagree. Players will do whatever gives them advantages or easiest if allowed in almost ever instance. Many players are unsatisfied with symptoms of their own gameplay choices.
Outside of competitive pvp what does that matter, disregarding the hypothetical nature of your claim.
Just means that given an option players will do whatever gives the best reward or fastest. Give a dungeon the worst story ever but highest quickest reward it will be your most popular.
You didn't answer the question, but that's okay. If what you say is true, and it's still wild speculation, it means that people don't care about grouping. They care about the progression.
There are apparently a lot of people who would rather do something for fun progression than have to be confined to contrived "grouping" as the only avenue for that progression. If grouping was that much fun people would do it anyway as a means to or in addition to progression. But it's apparently not that fun thus the complaints by you, the OP, and the others in your niche.
My niche was solo combat. I am not for forced grouped combat so your assumption is wrong. I believe in interdependency.
For example players complain about the death of open world PVP in WoW but will use the convenience features that cause it like flying mounts and queues.
Solo interdependency. That's a new one. Your point is getting lost in empty sloganizing.
Interdependency in this genre has been greatest in games that have had solo combat. Maybe you just don't understand the concept.
While I was reading through this thread I don't believe anyone has touched on a very big reason why people prefer solo play vs Group: PLAYER BEHAVIOR. Here are some but not all reasons: 1. Stupid Guild Drama 2. berating less skilled players instead of assisting them or guiding them 3. pvp players leaving pvp instance play because they aren't winning immediately. (other factors could be in play also) 4. having to deal with drunk or players high on drugs while pvping or in group content which includes tlak of drug use 5. Anti-religious bigotry 6. Religious bigotry 7. Talk of sexual assault on minors or others 8. sexual orientation bigotry 9. racial bigotry 10. threats of violence against other player whether it can be carried out or not 11. harrasment or bullying of other player 12. encouraging player having a rough time to commit suicide 13. Political talk 14. poor losing behavior 15. "know it all player" giving unwanted or unsolicited advice
I cant think of all bad behavior at this moment, but I believe many get the point. Player communities and people running the games need to band together to ostracize bad players. This is not the prime reason for the rise of solo play in MMO's, but I do believe it is a huge factor.
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Torval said: If someone wants to progress as a battle ground gladiator then so be it. If someone wants to quest, grind mobs, or do overland content then fine. If someone just wants to run dungeons, good. If they want to assemble a raid force and go that way, fine.
This much more difficult to do than to say tho.
1) Each of the playstyle interfere with other and it is difficult to balance out. 2) It represents increased development cost and very uncertain returns. 3) Sometimes the "unfun" part is required from design point of view - you want to "delay" something, put it behind some kind of effort, etc.
Not saying it is impossible but I think most devs just do not find it cost efficient.
When people engage in an activity they enjoy, they will do the thing they like, and they will try and do the most efficient form of what they like.
If they don't like something, they won't do it, path of least resistance or not, it's done for enjoyment. They may do something they dislike for a short period but only because they know they will do something they like soon.
Even if you ignore end game, grouping still delivers fasters xp, more coin and better/more loot during the leveling process. If you like to group, do it, they have all the advantages and tons of people are doing it.
I disagree. Players will do whatever gives them advantages or easiest if allowed in almost ever instance. Many players are unsatisfied with symptoms of their own gameplay choices.
Outside of competitive pvp what does that matter, disregarding the hypothetical nature of your claim.
Just means that given an option players will do whatever gives the best reward or fastest. Give a dungeon the worst story ever but highest quickest reward it will be your most popular.
You didn't answer the question, but that's okay. If what you say is true, and it's still wild speculation, it means that people don't care about grouping. They care about the progression.
There are apparently a lot of people who would rather do something for fun progression than have to be confined to contrived "grouping" as the only avenue for that progression. If grouping was that much fun people would do it anyway as a means to or in addition to progression. But it's apparently not that fun thus the complaints by you, the OP, and the others in your niche.
My niche was solo combat. I am not for forced grouped combat so your assumption is wrong. I believe in interdependency.
For example players complain about the death of open world PVP in WoW but will use the convenience features that cause it like flying mounts and queues.
Solo interdependency. That's a new one. Your point is getting lost in empty sloganizing.
Interdependency in this genre has been greatest in games that have had solo combat. Maybe you just don't understand the concept.
I understand. It's just irrelevant.
Yes you're comment on it is irrelevant obviously. Just why bring up the question and then bring an obviously stupid response if you already knew?
Some people don't need others around to have fun. Some have far more fun on their own.
Now grouping up can be fun from time to time, but if I was forced to talk or team up with others just so I can play the game, I wouldn't play that game.
I'm often with people in real life but on occasions I'll sit in my house all day and not talk to anyone.
When I do this, I get a strange feeling. So I'll go to the mall and walk among strangers so I can put a check mark saying " I was out with people " to make myself feel better.
I guess that may be a large attraction of playing solo in an mmo.
I mostly solo in the MMORPG's that I play, because it suits my play style.
I like exploring. I like looking at the scenery. I dawdle.
I absolutely abhor racing through a dungeon at the highest possible speed, which is what EVERY group I've ever played with does.
God, do I HATE that one... It was one of the things that originally drove me away from the original DDO (back before they relaunched as a much more solo friendly MMO). Groups racing through the adventures, and spamming away all the story dialogues before I was even remotely in range to read them (fucking stealthers).
They do it in other games too, but it especially pissed me off there because it's DnD, and every adventure had its own story, of which I lost just about most of the dialogue thanks to the average MMO tool that only cares about getting the loot at the end.
I would sooner quit MMOs altogether than be forced to play shitty ones where I can't accomplish everything solo and I have to put up with people like that for all my time online.
It's always been a problem in a group when some players have been through the content lots of time but if it's someone's first time they want to slow down and take it all in along the way.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Some people just don't want to bother talking with others. Can you blame them? MMO communities are toxic. People are actually shy online too, for some odd reason. Some people don't understand english either, or they could just be a kid that can't read yet. There's a lot of factors as to why people play solo.
Pretty much too many carebears in the market crying when they have to work together to accomplish something. It's not hard to find or form a fun group to play with (using forums, voip, in game tools, ect...). You just need to learn to shuffle through trash like anything else to get the good players.
Why would i bother to spend tiome finding the good players? Solo is more fun *and* more convenient to me.
Comments
I am likely wrong but that is how I see those who cry for more socialization in gaming.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
They do it in other games too, but it especially pissed me off there because it's DnD, and every adventure had its own story, of which I lost just about most of the dialogue thanks to the average MMO tool that only cares about getting the loot at the end.
I would sooner quit MMOs altogether than be forced to play shitty ones where I can't accomplish everything solo and I have to put up with people like that for all my time online.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
/salute
I love exploring. Finding that cave that is hard to get too, the pool table in city of heroes, that view from on top of the mountain. Don't need a reward of some in game ding, item, or achievement. Doing it because it is there!
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
For example players complain about the death of open world PVP in WoW but will use the convenience features that cause it like flying mounts and queues.
But maybe that's the reason people play that game in the first place.
You also do hear people want hard group content. And that is comfined in dungeons and raid in the game.
Basically what I'm trying to say is GW2 tries to please everyone, weather they like group or single player content.
Many of the complaints on the forum basically want to eliminates players different from them in the game. Which really comes to hoping developers can focus on making different games for different types of players.
vs
'forced grouping'
the latter sounds like someone who is unable to make friends and has control issues.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
1) People are ultimately driven by fun/enjoyment.
2) People might do to an extent something "unfun" in order to achieve their object of enjoyment.
The threshold of "unfun" - in quantity and natures, varies from player to player.
Too much mob grinding was "unfun", thus mob grinding was to an extent replaced with quests - you still may grind bosses for rares.
Too much grouping is was "unfun", thus grouping was reduced - you still may do raids.
Here are some but not all reasons:
1. Stupid Guild Drama
2. berating less skilled players instead of assisting them or guiding them
3. pvp players leaving pvp instance play because they aren't winning immediately. (other factors could be in play also)
4. having to deal with drunk or players high on drugs while pvping or in group content which includes tlak of drug use
5. Anti-religious bigotry
6. Religious bigotry
7. Talk of sexual assault on minors or others
8. sexual orientation bigotry
9. racial bigotry
10. threats of violence against other player whether it can be carried out or not
11. harrasment or bullying of other player
12. encouraging player having a rough time to commit suicide
13. Political talk
14. poor losing behavior
15. "know it all player" giving unwanted or unsolicited advice
I cant think of all bad behavior at this moment, but I believe many get the point. Player communities and people running the games need to band together to ostracize bad players. This is not the prime reason for the rise of solo play in MMO's, but I do believe it is a huge factor.
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
1) Each of the playstyle interfere with other and it is difficult to balance out.
2) It represents increased development cost and very uncertain returns.
3) Sometimes the "unfun" part is required from design point of view - you want to "delay" something, put it behind some kind of effort, etc.
Not saying it is impossible but I think most devs just do not find it cost efficient.
Now grouping up can be fun from time to time, but if I was forced to talk or team up with others just so I can play the game, I wouldn't play that game.
I'm often with people in real life but on occasions I'll sit in my house all day and not talk to anyone.
When I do this, I get a strange feeling. So I'll go to the mall and walk among strangers so I can put a check mark saying " I was out with people " to make myself feel better.
I guess that may be a large attraction of playing solo in an mmo.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey