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Star Citizen/CIG Refund Inquiry Response!

UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Member UncommonPosts: 568
The worst thing about this is that I was not asking for a refund, and just asked what the facts were behind the rumors I was hearing.
Looks like an automated response form letter, and the fact that they are automatically assuming I want to leave the game, means they must be flooded with requests and inquiries to the point they use such a form assuming you are leaving.
Not good either way.


Thank you very much for contacting us.

I am very sorry to hear that you no longer wish to back Star Citizen, however we have reviewed your account status and we regret that we are not able to accommodate your request for a refund since it was received outside of the statutory 14 day period. I understand that this may seem unwelcoming, but unfortunately we are now obligated to send over the following information as protocol:

You made your pledge to the crowdfunding campaign to raise funds for the development of “Star Citizen.” When you contributed your pledge it was applied to the building of the game and the team and resources needed to make it happen. The funds are not idly maintained in a bank account for months or years in case someone wants his/her money back. Cloud Imperium Games has been working diligently on the development of the game and has published extensive information on the development process on its website at robertsspaceindustries.com. We are very serious about accomplishing what we set out to do, which is to build a great game. We endeavor to keep everyone informed and educated on the progress of game development and what is accomplished with their support: reports, updates and web shows have been made available regularly, and our first gameplay offerings came online as early as fall of 2013. These offerings have been progressively and incrementally expanded over time to share access to the work in progress. We have created a substantial foundation for the game, and early release versions are currently available (see further detail below).

As noted above, your payment was a deposit to be used for the “Game Cost” as defined in your crowdfunding pledge agreement (see Sec. 4 of the Commercial Terms, and Sec. IV.A of the subsequent Terms of Service, as applicable,https://robertsspaceindustries.com/tos), and the deposit has since been “earned by CIG and become non-refundable” since it was “used for the Game Cost...” You also agreed to “irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any deposit amount that has been used for the Game Cost and Pledge Item Cost ….” The only exception would be a return of unearned funds remaining in case of an abandonment of the project; this exception does not apply as we have not abandoned development. If you pledged on Kickstarter, you agreed to these terms when you transferred your pledge account to robertsspaceindustries.com.

Terms to this effect have been in the Terms of Service and/or Commercial Terms ever since Star Citizen’s crowdfunding began. They are consistent with the specific nature of crowdfunding and the foreseeable use of your pledge –it would not be appropriate to use current backers’ development pledges to refund an earlier pledge which has already been used for Game Cost. Put simply, “takebacks” are not in the spirit of crowdfunding, the effect would be to pull the rug out from under a team that is working hard to build what the crowd has asked them to build with their pledges.

While quite a lot of the promised gameplay is now available, we acknowledge that delivery of some game elements has been delayed. This is a direct result of the community’s declared desire to have the initial release version of the game developed to a much greater depth, detail, and fidelity than contemplated originally upon start of the campaign. It is inherent to the nature of crowdfunding that such an adjustment to the project may occur. We acknowledge that some individual backers may find the additional wait undesirable. However, as per Sec. VII of the Terms, you did “acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time.” Ultimately, this evolution of development will benefit all backers including yourself, since every backer will be receiving a much greater value for his/her pledge, but it may – as in this case – cause an extension of the delivery dates.

Star Citizen is a project for gamers, by gamers. By financing the project using crowd funding, our team is not beholden to a publisher who would insist we ship a game unfinished, de-featured, or broken to meet a particular schedule. Thanks to continued backing of our community, we have the needed creative freedom over the project to push the boundaries of what is possible in gaming technology and to create a unique game with a unique approach. We feel the results such as unparalleled immersion and fidelity which have been highlighted in many reviews and community reactions, are already speaking for themselves!

Please try out, if you haven’t already, the significant gameplay which is now available (seehttps://robertsspaceindustries.com/feature-list) and we encourage you to download the installer from this url:https://robertsspaceindustries.com/download to patch up and play the latest version of the game.

Again, we regret that we can’t comply with your refund request for the above reasons and sincerely hope you enjoy the updates both current and future in the Star Citizen 'Verse.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter, and if there is anything else we can assist with please let us know, thanks.
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Comments

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,176
    edited June 2016
    I like how they are using the new terms as a sledgehammer to dissuade people from taking the matter any further. Really classy.

    Edit: If your product consists of multiple products the 14 day statutory period starts from when you receive the last product. Seeing as CIG have not delivered SQ42 or Star Citizen as finalised games can they really invoke the 14 day rule?
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,392
    Oh here comes "have fun" to put your mind at rest.




  • fatearsfatears Member UncommonPosts: 86
    You pledged to the Kickstarter campaign I assume, rather than buying a (promise of a currently non-existent) ship in the online shop? Kickstarter is a very grey area, however, I would suggest they are pushing their luck a little here and a particularly litigious individual might choose to take  them to task over it. 

    I would imagine that refusal to refund the purchase of a (pretty picture of a) ship, where the conditions have subsequently been varied would very swiftly end up in a law suit. 
    You received 25 LOLs. 
    You are posting some laughably bad content, please desist. 
  • donger56donger56 Member RarePosts: 443
    Full on damage control and CYA going on over at SC right now it seems. The fact that they are refusing refunds kind of tells you where this project is right now. Other crowdfunded games will refund your money at any time for any reason. I'm not a lawyer so I can't really say how this would end up in court, but I sure know how I would vote if I was on a jury. Most average people know what it's like to be scammed by a shady business and would not look fondly and the disaster that has been SC. I hope this does end up in court just so I can grab some popcorn and enjoy the show. This isn't the first crowdfunded project to not deliver and I'm sure it won't be the last. The idea that people are making "donations" as if this was some charity is just laughable though. 
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,539
    donger56 said:
    Full on damage control and CYA going on over at SC right now it seems. The fact that they are refusing refunds kind of tells you where this project is right now.
    Almost none of the crowdfunding projects refund money AT ALL.

    CIG offered refunds for 3 years ! That they do not offer refunds anymore  only tells you about the project that they HAVE used a significant part of the donated money to .. you know .. work on the project.


    Have fun
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,539
      They made promises that had financial ramifications in which they recently, and verily sneakily, wiped out by changing their TOS a month before they would have to compensate people for said broken promises.
    Thou should not believe the Goons and their propaganda.

    If you are an early backer, the new TOS does NOT change anything for you.
    See http://imgur.com/a/Ov1Tt 
    Section VII Point 3 "Pledges made under previous TOS continue to be governed by ...."

    The fun thing is that the number of backers that actually WANT  refunds in reality seems to be VERY small.  Some grey/black market traders that speculated with overpriced Star Citizen LTI ships got their curly hairs burned and bring their salty tears to the forums in a very vocal manner. I laugh at their despair and say "Good riddance".


    Have fun

  • tinuelletinuelle Member UncommonPosts: 363
    Going by the people on this forum I bet this will go to court, though I think There is a high probability that they will loose hard in court.

    But then again, court is where you go when you think you are right, and then you will find out, and like many you will experience that Even though you are right you loose.

    Anyway, I got the popcorn ready and hopefully a court can be livestreamed on twitch :)

    I've invested a fortune in this game (25 bucks), so they better deliver epic full feature AAA VR immersive single and multiplayer experience, or Else ............!!!!! you hear me bastards.... epic gangnamstyle game or I want my dollahs back :) Bwahahahaha.

    Damnit if this shit doesnt fail I want my money back, cause how things sound I dont know what to believe. Hype vs. Fail-hype.

    Epic fun though :)

    image
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,539
    tinuelle said:
    Going by the people on this forum I bet this will go to court, 
    Two weeks. 90 days tops. This will be an ELE !!    ;-)


    Have fun



    PS:
    okay, insider joke .....
  • NitemareMMONitemareMMO Member UncommonPosts: 237
    I hope Chris creates a star system for his devoted fan Erillion in the end or at least a planet or starbase.

    Imagine a starbase as you dock your ship there's that giant HAVE FUN above the gates...
  • VorpalChicken28VorpalChicken28 Member UncommonPosts: 348
    Realistically people should be giving RSI/CIG 5 years development time before asking for a refund, at the moment there seems to be alot of people saying the sky is falling with very little evidence to support this.

    Yes there are probably issues with SC, but I think you'll find they are the kind of difficulties that all development companies hit when developing a game.

    For me the main issue I have is the fact that they took the money and then founded a bunch of separate companies, this is not what you generally do with a crowdfunded project, you normally have your base company and just grow your base staff as needed to finish the project.

    The money they gathered was to develop the game, not to develop their company, you would normally do this with the profits from a successful release.
    “Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” 
    ― Terry PratchettMaking Money
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,539
    vorpal28 said:

    The money they gathered was to develop the game, not to develop their company, you would normally do this with the profits from a successful release.
    I agree with that.

    It is my understanding that the reason for having a bunch of separate companies was to
    a) take advantage of big tax breaks  (---> UK)
    b) be near a bunch of engine experts (--> Germany)
    c) be near a bunch of big name actors for mo-cap and performance-cap (--> LA)
    d) be near a bunch of industry experts (--> Austin)
    e) be able to work almost 24 hours over different timezones


    Have fun
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    "While quite a lot of the promised gameplay is now available, we acknowledge that delivery of some game elements has been delayed."

    Quite a lot of gameplay? Only some game elements delayed? Theycan't possibly be that blatantly full of crap can they?

    What the heck are all the hungry class action lawsuit lawyers waiting for already!
    They only have 1 planet right now.  WOW just WOW.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    I don't see what all the fuss is about.  You paid for a picture of a ship and thats what you got.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • tinuelletinuelle Member UncommonPosts: 363
    Who Cares about planets. They need epic AI so i dont need to fly my ship manually. Everyone knows that the future of flight is through AI and not a damn joystick! Epic AI for space combat flight of my ship or refund!!!

    image
  • Psychos1sPsychos1s Member UncommonPosts: 176
    filmoret said:
    "While quite a lot of the promised gameplay is now available, we acknowledge that delivery of some game elements has been delayed."

    Quite a lot of gameplay? Only some game elements delayed? Theycan't possibly be that blatantly full of crap can they?

    What the heck are all the hungry class action lawsuit lawyers waiting for already!
    They only have 1 planet right now.  WOW just WOW.

    Should read

    "While the vast majority of promised gameplay is completely absent, we acknowledge that a minute portion of gameplay has been delivered"
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Psychos1s said:
    filmoret said:
    "While quite a lot of the promised gameplay is now available, we acknowledge that delivery of some game elements has been delayed."

    Quite a lot of gameplay? Only some game elements delayed? Theycan't possibly be that blatantly full of crap can they?

    What the heck are all the hungry class action lawsuit lawyers waiting for already!
    They only have 1 planet right now.  WOW just WOW.

    Should read

    "While the vast majority of promised gameplay is completely absent, we acknowledge that a minute portion of gameplay has been delivered"
    I dont feel like reading all their stuff again.  But I believe it was like 15 star systems or 20 planets suppose to be available at launch of the game.  I realize it was changed a bit and we are going to get a MVP within the year.  But 1 planet?  Really if it takes 2 years to deliver 1 planet then this game will be in development for the next 15 years before they deliver 20 planets.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,541
    Erillion said:
    donger56 said:
    Full on damage control and CYA going on over at SC right now it seems. The fact that they are refusing refunds kind of tells you where this project is right now.
    Almost none of the crowdfunding projects refund money AT ALL.

    CIG offered refunds for 3 years ! That they do not offer refunds anymore  only tells you about the project that they HAVE used a significant part of the donated money to .. you know .. work on the project.


    Have fun
    Just how is snorting giant rails of cocaine off the shapely backsides of dime pieces hookers part of the project? Cause we know for a fact they totally did that ... ok we have suspicions they did that ... ok we actually have no evidence what so ever that they did that at all. But damn it, after watching the Wolf of Wall Street that just sounds really cool. So I'm just going to say that since they have bunch of money that's what they must have done. The defense rests.

    "You can go to land of make believe and you can pretend
    But in the end you still have no friends"

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,539
    filmoret said:
    I dont feel like reading all their stuff again.  But I believe it was like 15 star systems or 20 planets suppose to be available at launch of the game.  I realize it was changed a bit and we are going to get a MVP within the year.  But 1 planet?  Really if it takes 2 years to deliver 1 planet then this game will be in development for the next 15 years before they deliver 20 planets.
    Recently they concentrated on procedural generation of planetary bodies (to the standards of SC).

    If they have the tech, they can generate 20.000 planets with the touch of a button.


    Have fun
  • spankybusspankybus Member UncommonPosts: 1,366
    Erillion said:
    vorpal28 said:

    The money they gathered was to develop the game, not to develop their company, you would normally do this with the profits from a successful release.
    I agree with that.

    It is my understanding that the reason for having a bunch of separate companies was to
    a) take advantage of big tax breaks  (---> UK)
    b) be near a bunch of engine experts (--> Germany)

    c) be near a bunch of big name actors for mo-cap and performance-cap (--> LA)****
    d) be near a bunch of industry experts (--> Austin)
    e) be able to work almost 24 hours over different timezones



    Have fun
    *** but all the Mo-Cap sessions are in the UK< according to CR. He always said he was off to manchester cor SQ42 mo-cap sessions.

    Agree that other points seem logical.

    Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
    www.spankybus.com
    -3d Artist & Compositor
    -Writer
    -Professional Amature

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,539
    edited June 2016
    spankybus said:
    *** but all the Mo-Cap sessions are in the UK< according to CR. He always said he was off to manchester cor SQ42 mo-cap sessions. 

    But the AAA actors appearing in those performance capture scenes are not.

    Anyone that can convince a big name actor to perform in THIS outfit

    deserves my respect.


    Back to the topic of the thread ... OP ... now that you know the facts as CIG CS told you ... what will be your next step ? Charge back ? Second mail to CIG CS ?


    Have fun
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,208
    14 days is a reasonable timespan for a refund. Steam and GoG only offer 30 days and only up to a certain number of hours played. But this thread wasn't about finding out about refunds. That information was already available and has been discussed for a while. This was just a premise to post a bunch of inflammatory manufactured assumptions to start yet another flamewar thread.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    I dont feel like reading all their stuff again.  But I believe it was like 15 star systems or 20 planets suppose to be available at launch of the game.  I realize it was changed a bit and we are going to get a MVP within the year.  But 1 planet?  Really if it takes 2 years to deliver 1 planet then this game will be in development for the next 15 years before they deliver 20 planets.
    Recently they concentrated on procedural generation of planetary bodies (to the standards of SC).

    If they have the tech, they can generate 20.000 planets with the touch of a button.


    Have fun
    Nice, thanks for the info.  Can't wait to see all this in action.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    I think it's about time for some actual legislature specifically designed for crowdfunding. That way there's no confusion over refunds, accountability or anything else pertaining to crowd backed funding.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Thomas2006Thomas2006 Member RarePosts: 1,122
    14 days sounds about right.  Steam offers a refund within 14 days of purchase IF you have played less then 2 hours of the game in question.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Distopia said:
    I think it's about time for some actual legislature specifically designed for crowdfunding. That way there's no confusion over refunds, accountability or anything else pertaining to crowd backed funding.

    I think it's actually an education thing over a legislation thing. What seems obvious to some obviously isn't to others. I think a lot of it boils down to perspective. I think there is, routinely, a lot of noise from those outside looking in. These people would NEVER back a crowdfunded game, and they're quite content to tell you that. However, they're also the noisiest. What you tend to hear much less frequently are those who backed a crowdfunded game and want a refund. SC might be the first time I've actually seen that, and I think that's due to it's size more than anything else. So I really don't think there's a need for legislation. 

    There are PLENTY of crowdfunded games which are "past due", but there is often little more than an idle hum about it. Again, SC is just amplified due to its size. 

    Honestly, I really don't think there is that much confusion over refunds at all. Those who are in, get it, those who are out, get it, and that's why they're out! I mean if they weren't aware of it, why would they continuously talk about risk? There is obviously perceived risk of losing their money, so they obviously know they can't get a refund. 


    Crazkanuk

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