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Did ESO kill GW2?

2

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  • scribeofsalmacisscribeofsalmacis Member UncommonPosts: 26
    edited June 2016
    Having played GW2 solely for the WvW experience for many years, I don't think that the problems were to be sought "away from home", and definitely not from ESO. Yea, a lot of people had to try the game to see how the developer team treats its hyped AvA mode - and I don't think that too many felt that it lived up to the hype, be it because of combat mechanics, PvP tactical conditions or the sheer practical PvE grind that ESO is. The game really didn't offer much in terms of pure PvP. A lot of people went back to GW2, even just sporadically, some meddled with other games in a few month fits (AA, even ARK, sometimes games in development), while seeing with their guilds what transpires with the next RvR Grail, Camelot Unchained. Myself, the changes introduced by the HoT expansion finished what I had left in terms of love toward GW2, so I game hop, do FPS and simply wait until there's a feasible, competitive RvR loved and nurtured by the team that created it. Might as well be CU. We'll see.

    Edit. Also, as a general comment to some sentiments in this thread, while a lot of PvPers spend time also in PvE (some even if not forced by gear grind, a lot of them because they are forced to do so) I don't think that the shifts in a dedicated PvP population can be read based on the PvE design factors. Even new content isn't that necessary. New content can even be the problem, if the initial underlying mechanic has enough game-killing flaws, yet the developers fail to address them. Such as zergs rewarded with hard survivability because of how rezes and the AoE cap work.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 753
    I tried to like ESO's WvW model, but the combat design just isn't as good for large scale combat as GW2. You frequently died without having any idea what was happening because abilities were not well telegraphed. GW2 certainly wasn't perfect in that regard, but you could generally see why you were dying instead of just "well that happened."

    I agree with the people saying ANet killed GW2; specifically WvW. They removed things people enjoyed (orbs), and added unbalanced things that people hated (masteries) while generally letting the game mode rot with lack of content. I think the new god awful borderland maps were the final straw for most people. There was really nothing appealing about them and they had a ton of negative aspects like PvP events, poor map flow, badly designed fortifications, etc.

    The game's biggest flaw is that it disinsitivized PvP. Winning the match was best accomplished by avoiding the enemy and flipping uncontested fortifications while defending your own with arrow cart spam instead of actually fighting. To make it worse, that was the only way to get even halfway decent individual rewards out of WvW.

    All of that just combined for one long slow death for what could have been genre defining.
  • fatearsfatears Member UncommonPosts: 86
    ANet are only harming themselves. GW1 was a masterclass in retaining players, with the release of regular, quality and complete story-driven campaigns. GW2 has been a masterclass in how not to retain players with a lackluster living story, hugely late and underwhelming expansion, and the reliance on grind rather than story to keep people invested.

    ANet really need to go back to their roots, look at what made GW1 successful and learn from it.  
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  • scribeofsalmacisscribeofsalmacis Member UncommonPosts: 26
    I think the new god awful borderland maps were the final straw for most people. There was really nothing appealing about them and they had a ton of negative aspects like PvP events, poor map flow, badly designed fortifications, etc.

    The game's biggest flaw is that it disinsitivized PvP. Winning the match was best accomplished by avoiding the enemy and flipping uncontested fortifications while defending your own with arrow cart spam instead of actually fighting. To make it worse, that was the only way to get even halfway decent individual rewards out of WvW.

    Admittedly, precisely the new borderland maps were the last straw for myself. They were not the only or by far the most important reason, but against a long history of negligence from ANet and as a sum a personal gaming experience, that's what it took.

    I don't know about winning a match in terms of score, or what incentive it might have (apart from dictating your future opponents, and guilds you'd be likely face). I played for good open field fights only.  ^^
  • simpliussimplius Member UncommonPosts: 1,134

    no. bad decisions from anet hurt the game more than anything else

    they make a ton of new systems, but they dont follow through with content for those systems

    underwater combat is a pretty unique feature, but they dont use it for anything

    instead, they make a new system, and now they have to try and make content for that too

    theyre simply trying to do too many things at once, leaving us with a mash of half baked concepts

    AFAIK , the end boss is still buggy as hell

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    bcbully said:
    I think it did. A huge portion of GW2 was based off WvWvW. There was a time when the WvWvW player base was massive. Since ESO, WvWvW is all but dead. Be honest, how many of you know people (many people) who left GW2 for ESO? Now, how many of you know people who left ESO for GW2, nobody I bet. 

    When it became obvious to people that ESO had a better 3 way, large scale war product, people left GW2 by the guild. I believe this is around the time ArenaNet and NCsoft changed direction and pulled support from WvWvW. They also knew they could not compete on that front. They moved resources to Spvp, Raids, and Grind. They attempted to go where ESO wasn't. All that did was alienate the rest of their player base and leave them with major articles being written like "GW2 Apathy sets in". 

    At this point I believe the ship has sailed on GW2 due to the mark being missed so badly with the expansion. I don't think there is any coming back.

    What do you think?

    I know only a couple of people who played GW2.  I don't recall them going to ESO. One is playing WAR
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  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,840
    bcbully said:
    I think it did. A huge portion of GW2 was based off WvWvW. There was a time when the WvWvW player base was massive. Since ESO, WvWvW is all but dead. Be honest, how many of you know people (many people) who left GW2 for ESO? Now, how many of you know people who left ESO for GW2, nobody I bet. 

    When it became obvious to people that ESO had a better 3 way, large scale war product, people left GW2 by the guild. I believe this is around the time ArenaNet and NCsoft changed direction and pulled support from WvWvW. They also knew they could not compete on that front. They moved resources to Spvp, Raids, and Grind. They attempted to go where ESO wasn't. All that did was alienate the rest of their player base and leave them with major articles being written like "GW2 Apathy sets in". 

    At this point I believe the ship has sailed on GW2 due to the mark being missed so badly with the expansion. I don't think there is any coming back.

    What do you think?
    GW2 seems to be doing really well, the "major article" (lol) seems more like an individual who has gotten tired of GW2 projecting their personal feelings onto the entire community. 

    Now in terms of WvW in the two games, personally I love how ESO has set it up. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but the map, the way siege and castles work, the stealth mechanic, choke points ... many game systems work well together to make it a really enjoyable WvW experience.

    However, looking at company "support" for WvW, it seems to me that ArenaNet is providing more of that than Zeni. GW2 has received several WvW updates, while ESO is still struggling with ping/latency (although it is much better than at launch).  

    In terms of pvp, ESO also suffers from a lack of basic functionality - for example there is no way to easily duel with friends. ESO has arguably a more interesting class system due to its skill tree set up, but it crippled by gear dependency and the need to rely on pve to get gear. The rewards system for pvp frankly sucks in ESO. Its balance is far worse and there is no way to really assess balance because the game lacks any normalised competitive pvp environment. WvW in ESO is still is far less stable in terms of lag etc than GW2, and its not uncommon to see exploits.

    All in all I think ESO might have the potential to drain the WvW player base from GW2, but the lack of any love or pvp updates from Zeni has held it back. I find myself alternating between playing GW2 for a few months, then playing ESO for a while. I would probably spend more time in ESO if I could actually progress through pvp, but atm at least it seems more accommodating for no-lifers and pvers than for people who enjoy pvp.


    ....
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    Is it dead?
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    I personally stopped playing GW2 before ESO released. Just never could get into it.
  • d_20d_20 Member RarePosts: 1,878
    I don't know, OP, but my guild left for BDO (I didn't join them). My main game is ESO, but I sometimes drop in to GW2 from time to time for pvp.

    I don't much like the new zones. I find them frustrating and bit too hyper. And I don't care for raids. So maybe HOT killed GW2 for some players.


  • beebop500beebop500 Member UncommonPosts: 217
    If Gw 2 is hurting, I doubt that could be attributed to some other game.  I would offer that if indeed it is in any sort of trouble - and I have no idea because I didn't last long playing it - it is most likely because ANet essentially tossed that "manifesto" out the window, and that the game contains exactly zero of the systems and ideas that made the first Gw great.  And considering how terrible the dungeons in Gw 2 were, I can only imagine the hot mess their raids must be.  Having five people playing roller-derby to escape aggro was bad enough; having twenty people flopping all over the floor desperately trying to avoid red circles must be insane.
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  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,248
    I loved GW2 until the expansion. Changed the game into something that wasn't what I loved before.
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    I loved GW2 until I tried it.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    aslan132 said:
    I can say from personal experience, no. I was in a guild that had left GW2 for ESO. It was something new, and we thought they would have a major focus on the 3 faction PVP, as the maps and campaigns sounded good on paper. Unfortunately, thats where the good times ended.

    Of course there were launch issues with ESO, just as there was with any MMO, so we mostly ignored those. But then it got silly with "Emporer Trading", which then devolved into just each faction owning a different campaign, and just not fighting each other. Then they took campaigns away to force fights, and we saw alot of cheating, hacking, and broken builds. Forward camps made sieges useless, and zerg fights were won by whoever had more oil pots on the ground, or someone exploiting vampire skills.

    Honestly, we gave it a shot, then we went back to GW2 just before HoT. And we never looked back since. 

    So I cant speak for the whole players base, but personal experience, I can say for myself, and my guild of 135 people, we did leave ESO for GW2, and GW2 in our experience is not only the much more balanced game, it runs smoother, and has better gameplay elements. ESO definitely did not kill GW2 for us.
    They fixed everything you had problems with.  Well except for the broken builds.  They were still around last I checked.  This really is the one reason I left because I was tired of shield sorcs just never dying and blinking everywhere.  But yea they did fix the rest of those things you had problems with.

    SalmonMan said:
    WvW seems to be heaving in GW2 right now. i dont WvW much, but need the gift of battle from tne WvW reward track, and often have to que.
    You have a queue because they are only playing on one map right now.  The borderland maps are horrendous and the players won't use them.  Then if you are one of the many who are on a small server you must pay 20$ to move over to something more populated.  ESO solved this crap which GW2 is currently working on but I say its like 3 years too late.
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  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    bcbully said:
    I think it did. A huge portion of GW2 was based off WvWvW. There was a time when the WvWvW player base was massive. Since ESO, WvWvW is all but dead. Be honest, how many of you know people (many people) who left GW2 for ESO? Now, how many of you know people who left ESO for GW2, nobody I bet. 

    When it became obvious to people that ESO had a better 3 way, large scale war product, people left GW2 by the guild. I believe this is around the time ArenaNet and NCsoft changed direction and pulled support from WvWvW. They also knew they could not compete on that front. They moved resources to Spvp, Raids, and Grind. They attempted to go where ESO wasn't. All that did was alienate the rest of their player base and leave them with major articles being written like "GW2 Apathy sets in". 

    At this point I believe the ship has sailed on GW2 due to the mark being missed so badly with the expansion. I don't think there is any coming back.

    What do you think?
    Large numbers of mmo players are bandwagoners, they move to new and then turn on their previous game.  These kinds of players are the ones whining over and over about how the mmorpg genre is dying because they don't get a new title flicked across their nipples every 6 months.

    Gw2 and ESO are both doing well enough to be sustainable, that's all that matters.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    If you haven't played these games since about 6 months after they launched.  Then you know absolutely nothing about what is happening.  They have both changed a lot.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 718
    I'm sincerely sry op that Ncsoft shows the game's performance, and that any speculative threads must die within 3 months :)
  • moravamorava Member UncommonPosts: 31
    This by far stupidest forum title that I ever read.
  • JakobmillerJakobmiller Member UncommonPosts: 336
    Both games are still alive. Not my cup of tea for sure.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,840
    The bigger question is will CU or CF kill WvW in ESO and GW2?
    ....
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    For UI, Interface, Art Design, and overall look I would say that ESO definitely kills GW2.
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  • Righteous_RockRighteous_Rock Member RarePosts: 1,234
    ESO and Gw2 have similar pvp gameplay in 3 faction large map area. ESO combat is head and shoulders above Gw2, the customization is head and shoulders above as well and Zenimax seems to be a developer with a chip on their shoulders trying to prove themselves especially after all the critics right before and after launch. Gw2 doesn't have that chip pushing them, I would say ESO has taken a nice chunk of the Gw2 base. Both good games, in my opinion ESO is just better.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,868
    For me it meant I would not be going back to GW2, but I never really got into it, to shallow. ESO is not for the players who really like GW2, interesting to see if anyone plays both.

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  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,309
    waynejr2 said:
    bcbully said:
    I think it did. A huge portion of GW2 was based off WvWvW. There was a time when the WvWvW player base was massive. Since ESO, WvWvW is all but dead. Be honest, how many of you know people (many people) who left GW2 for ESO? Now, how many of you know people who left ESO for GW2, nobody I bet. 

    When it became obvious to people that ESO had a better 3 way, large scale war product, people left GW2 by the guild. I believe this is around the time ArenaNet and NCsoft changed direction and pulled support from WvWvW. They also knew they could not compete on that front. They moved resources to Spvp, Raids, and Grind. They attempted to go where ESO wasn't. All that did was alienate the rest of their player base and leave them with major articles being written like "GW2 Apathy sets in". 

    At this point I believe the ship has sailed on GW2 due to the mark being missed so badly with the expansion. I don't think there is any coming back.

    What do you think?

    I know only a couple of people who played GW2.  I don't recall them going to ESO. One is playing WAR
    i am one of those people. even though i didn't quit GW2 to play ESO, i quit GW2 because it bored me to death and i just didn't like some of the stuff in the game like story mode and my character getting instantly boosted to max lvl when i played sPVP.

    to be fair i have not played GW2 in quite some time so it could be different by now.
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,309
    YashaX said:
    The bigger question is will CU or CF kill WvW in ESO and GW2?
    pvp in ESO is already pretty dead to be honest. i think that fact should concern people who have high hopes for CU because IMO if they don't do a far better job than both GW2 and ESO in that regard, it's going to flop hard.

    is it going to be that much more fun and better being an indie game that is more dedicated to RvR style pvp? i have a hard time believing that.
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