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Will AMD Be The Undisputed Mid-Range King?

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  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Nvidia have 2 mid ranged marker cards, the x50 cards for the lower mid market and the x60 for the higher. expect a 1050 and 1060 card to come out soon.

    As for who sells most it seems to me that AMD sells more GPUs for laptops while Nvidia sells more for desktops at the moment but that is just based on my buddie who works at my local hardware store so that can differ from place to place.

    Whatever, I am glad as long as both are in business and compete, it would be a disaster for us if one company bought the other.
  • CavemanBECavemanBE Member UncommonPosts: 78
    edited June 2016
    come out soon yup paper launch haha.
  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,795
    edited June 2016
    Over all I would pick the 480 8 gigs over the 970 4 gigs due to the VRAM more. With more of a future proof then anything when more games are starting to wanted more Vrams at higher setting. But we will see when there are better coolers with OC on the 480 and see how much bigger cost then the 1070.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,826
    As of 9am Pacific - Newegg is out of stock of 4G versions, but had three different 8G versions in stock, two of which are at MSRP of $240, the third at $250
  • GladDogGladDog Member RarePosts: 976
    I'm going to buy an RX-480 to replace my 4 year old Radeon 7870 2GB card, but I'll be waiting for 2nd generation cooling solutions from the manufacturers, probably an XFX like the card I have now.

    Someone mentioned Sapphire as a solution.  I've had two Sapphire cards die.  One was a 6870 just out of warrantee.  I dropped a bit less than $250 on that card, and it barely lasted beyond two years.  So I contacted Sapphire, and wanted to see if they would offer a small credit towards buying a replacement card.  I was just asking, not demanding...

    I have NEVER been treated so rudely by a customer service person.  I was not asking for his first borne, I honestly wasn't even expecting they would say yes.  I was thinking maybe $25-35 credit towards a 7870.  But he called me names, told me I was an idiot, (his exact word) and refused to talk to me.  I hung up the phone, and bought my 7870 on Newegg.  I will NEVER buy another Sapphire product.

    And if you did not know, Sapphire is AMD's in-house brand for their products. 

    After my 'conversation' I was thinking about just never buying another AMD/ATI card ever again.  But I have a rule in life, you can't make eternal judgements about a company based on one idiot's performance.  So I bought the XFX Ghost version, and have been very pleased with it.  And I will continue to buy from XFX.


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,781
    edited June 2016
    Ridelynn said:
    As of 9am Pacific - Newegg is out of stock of 4G versions, but had three different 8G versions in stock, two of which are at MSRP of $240, the third at $250
    Strange. To me Newegg is showing only 4 different RX 480 cards, only 1 of which is in stock.

    Maybe they show different page for different people?

    EDIT: Update: Now it's showing 5 different cards with 1 in stock.
    Post edited by Vrika on
     
  • XyireXyire Member UncommonPosts: 152
    Vrika said:
    Ridelynn said:
    As of 9am Pacific - Newegg is out of stock of 4G versions, but had three different 8G versions in stock, two of which are at MSRP of $240, the third at $250
    Strange. To me Newegg is showing only 4 different RX 480 cards, only 1 of which is in stock.

    Maybe they show different page for different people?
    Newegg shows 5 cards available to me with 2 being in stock
  • MrMonolitasMrMonolitas Member UncommonPosts: 236
    So dutch site tweakers released crossfire bencmarks. https://tweakers.net/reviews/4709/7/amd-radeon-rx-480-crossfire-vr-dx12-en-overklok-getest-far-cry-4-en-gta-v.html Looks really good if you ask me
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756
    I'll be looking for a new card in the next couple of months.  This looks pretty sweet on paper but I'll be keeping an eye out to see if any users have problems with specific games or drivers.

    Obviously if it works as well as Nvidia the price is amazing.  But to me it remains to be seen.
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    edited June 2016
    Benchmarks

    http://www.hardwareunboxed.com/amd-radeon-rx-480-benchmark-review-23-games-tested-three-resolutions/

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/RX_480/

    Crossfire:

    http://www.hardwareunboxed.com/rx-480-crossfire-performance-gtx-1070-killer/

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/RX_480_CrossFire/

    CF is ~5% slower than 1080 when CF works and it costs 400-480$ opposed to 1080 620+$

    hardware unboxed guy had 17/23 games where CF worked and was surprised that it worked so well.









    Now this last list is what is disspointing about NVidias new cards - performance/$ - those should be MUCH closer to 480, but they didnt even match last gens performance/$ and thats what ive been saying - yes, those cards are faster but youre paying even more for performance than you did last gen for NVidia (970-1070  and 980-1080)...



  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,781
    albers said:
    So dutch site tweakers released crossfire bencmarks. https://tweakers.net/reviews/4709/7/amd-radeon-rx-480-crossfire-vr-dx12-en-overklok-getest-far-cry-4-en-gta-v.html Looks really good if you ask me
    In Hitman and Rise of the Tomb Raider crossfire wasn't supported and didn't bring any additional speed. Crossfire works well enough when it works, but who buys 400$ worth of graphic cards so that he could play 75% of games available? At that price I think you should go for a solution that works on all games, not just on most of them.

    https://tweakers.net/reviews/4709/9/amd-radeon-rx-480-crossfire-vr-dx12-en-overklok-getest-dx12-hitman-en-tomb-raider.html


     
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Loke666 said:
    Nvidia have 2 mid ranged marker cards, the x50 cards for the lower mid market and the x60 for the higher. expect a 1050 and 1060 card to come out soon.

    As for who sells most it seems to me that AMD sells more GPUs for laptops while Nvidia sells more for desktops at the moment but that is just based on my buddie who works at my local hardware store so that can differ from place to place.

    Whatever, I am glad as long as both are in business and compete, it would be a disaster for us if one company bought the other.
    I have a feeling 1060 will be priced same RX 480, just like 960 is priced same as 380X. It will no way be a better solution than RX 480, just as 960 is not better than 380X.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • RukushinRukushin Member UncommonPosts: 302
    Malabooga said:
    Benchmarks

    http://www.hardwareunboxed.com/amd-radeon-rx-480-benchmark-review-23-games-tested-three-resolutions/

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/RX_480/

    Crossfire:

    http://www.hardwareunboxed.com/rx-480-crossfire-performance-gtx-1070-killer/

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/RX_480_CrossFire/

    CF is ~5% slower than 1080 when CF works and it costs 400-480$ opposed to 1080 620+$

    hardware unboxed guy had 17/23 games where CF worked and was surprised that it worked so well.









    Now this last list is what is disspointing about NVidias new cards - performance/$ - those should be MUCH closer to 480, but they didnt even match last gens performance/$ and thats what ive been saying - yes, those cards are faster but youre paying even more for performance than you did last gen for NVidia (970-1070  and 980-1080)...



    Ummm, I'm not too sure about those charts. I was reading a few other articles and the 480 was rated as good but not THAT good. It was only beating a GTX 970 in one game. It was coming close to the 970 but not in any way beating it. 

    These graphs show it decimating the GTX 970 completely. That being said the outlook is quite good for me picking one of these up for my GFs computer as her GTX 750Ti isn't cutting it anymore.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,826
    Toms is reporting the 480 violates PCI Power specifications, and pulls too much power from the motherboard, which could cause potential damage.

    This may or may not be true, waiting for confirmation.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,826
    Vrika said:
    Ridelynn said:
    As of 9am Pacific - Newegg is out of stock of 4G versions, but had three different 8G versions in stock, two of which are at MSRP of $240, the third at $250
    Strange. To me Newegg is showing only 4 different RX 480 cards, only 1 of which is in stock.

    Maybe they show different page for different people?

    EDIT: Update: Now it's showing 5 different cards with 1 in stock.
    This is actually interesting.

    I was looking on their mobile site - it lists 9 different 480 cards, including a new one that just popped up with a factory overclock. As of around noon pacific - all sold out. All of these are XFX, Gigabyte, Powercolor, Sapphire, MSI, and Asus.

    Going to the desktop version - only 4 different cards, one in stock - a Visiontek that isn't even listed on the mobile page.

    Just goes to show how bad Newegg's search sucks.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,291
    Ridelynn said:
    <snip>And I think we've pretty well established the "electricity price" case is just a non-issue. <snip>
    A non-issue on price - maybe; things can get pretty toasty though with some cards. However for me it is a case of higher power consumption = more heat = more noise. I like quiet. 

    So I am all for pushing manufacturers to reduce power consumption.
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    edited June 2016
    Rukushin said:
    Ummm, I'm not too sure about those charts. I was reading a few other articles and the 480 was rated as good but not THAT good. It was only beating a GTX 970 in one game. It was coming close to the 970 but not in any way beating it. 

    These graphs show it decimating the GTX 970 completely. That being said the outlook is quite good for me picking one of these up for my GFs computer as her GTX 750Ti isn't cutting it anymore.
    Someone made a review summary:

    "Performance summary:
    1- Tom's put this card as below the GTX 970 and R9 390, but not by much.
    2- TechPowerUp, Anandtech, PC Perspective, Hexus, HardwareCanucks, and KitGuru put the card at slightly above the GTX 970 and R9 390.
    3- LegitReviews, GamerNexus and HardOCP puts the card on par with the GTX 970 and R9 390.


    Details:
    1- All reviews mention that the cards does considerably better on DX12, where it can beat the GTX 980
    2- The reviews praise the card's overall power consumption, but note that it exceeds the standard limits (86W from PCIe, instead of 75W)
    3- Most lament the temps of the reference cooler.
    4- Most of the reviews note that the reference cooler does well on the noise. As good as nVidia? No, but this is something to note, considering the horrible reference jet engines of AMD's 290/290X cards.
    5- Overclocking results are mixed, some reviewers getting up to 10% OC, and some barely 2%."

    Amd hardwareuboxed and techpowerup test 20+ different games of various types not just few "standard benchmark games" which if you test just few NVidia games it will be biased to NVidia and if you test just few AMD games it will be biased to AMD (Techpower up test like 10+ Gameworks (NVidia) games, so you could even call them biased to NVidia) and they test reference cards.

    Also, have they tested reference or OCed AIB 970 in tests you looked at? Have they even mentioned if any of tested cards is OCed?

    As for OC, potential is there, just not on reference cards it seems:

    http://oc.jagatreview.com/2016/06/teaser-overclocking-amd-radeon-rx480-ke-1-4ghz-dengan-cooler-3rd-party/2/

    1425 MHz OC

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,291
    As Quizzical says it depends what people mean by mid-range.

    Bubbling below at - lets call it the "lower end" - are Intel's on-board graphics chips. And AMD's for that matter. Easily dismissed a few years ago they are now a factor. One that is probably going to be a brake on mid-range prices. 

    Sound cards anyone? 
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    edited June 2016
    gervaise1 said:
    Ridelynn said:
    <snip>And I think we've pretty well established the "electricity price" case is just a non-issue. <snip>
    A non-issue on price - maybe; things can get pretty toasty though with some cards. However for me it is a case of higher power consumption = more heat = more noise. I like quiet. 

    So I am all for pushing manufacturers to reduce power consumption.
    Well you can guess power consumption of 1060 pretty well from 1070/1080

    1080 - 180W (4 GPC/2580 CC, 8GB GDDRX5 which uses less power than GDDR5)
    1070 - 150W (3GPC/1920 CC, 8GB GDDR5)
    1060 - 110-120W (2GPC/1280 CC, 6GB GDDR5) - 1 6pin power connector
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,826
    gervaise1 said:
    As Quizzical says it depends what people mean by mid-range.

    Bubbling below at - lets call it the "lower end" - are Intel's on-board graphics chips. And AMD's for that matter. Easily dismissed a few years ago they are now a factor. One that is probably going to be a brake on mid-range prices. 

    Sound cards anyone? 
    Well, there is a much different fidelity cap for audio than there is visual. The "Standard" for audio hasn't moved much in years. We haven't hit the same plateau of diminishing returns for video yet; although with PPIs going up so high that it's pretty much capped there, we may sooner than later.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,979
    This answers quite a few questions.

    Is the Radeon RX 480 fast enough to make the GTX 1070 irrelevant?  No.  As I said earlier, while it does beat the GTX 1070 in performance per dollar, that measure usually goes down as you go to higher end cards, anyway, so the GTX 1070 still has a place in the market, or at least will once it's in stock.

    Is it a hard launch?  Probably not, but as of right now, New Egg only shows one RX 480 for me, and it's out of stock.  Several other listings that were there earlier today have vanished.  So something is amiss and they might still have cards where no one can find them.  But if it's only in stock until it shows up on the web page, is it really in stock?

    Is it unable to clock above 800 MHz?  Ha ha, no.  That rumor was just wrong.

    Is it a compelling value, or perhaps rather, would it be if it were in stock?  Certainly.  $200 for something that hangs with a GTX 970 is a much better value than a much more expensive GTX 970.  Of course, prices of competing cards can and probably will change.

    Does it have enough memory bandwidth?  At lower resolutions, probably.  TechPowerUp showed it hanging with a Radeon R9 390 at lower resolutions, but falling behind at higher resolutions.  Given that the RX 480 has more computational power as well as supposedly being a better architecture, it should be faster than an R9 390 if that's the bottleneck.  That it isn't points to the extra bandwidth of the R9 390 being important at higher resolutions, or possibly some extra compute stuff in the Hawaii chip making a difference.  I wouldn't bet on the latter, though.

    Is the card hot and loud?  Reference coolers typically aren't the best.  And what would you expect from an architecture that AMD named after a star, which runs notoriously hot?
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,838
    I must say  I was shocked when I heard about this.


    :angry: A report on BoingBoing, authored by Damien Zammit, claims that recent Intel x86 processors have a secret and power control mechanism implemented into them that runs on a separate chip that nobody is allowed to audit or examine. From the report: When these are eventually compromised, they'll expose all affected systems to nearly unkillable, undetectable rootkit attacks. Further explaining the matter, the author claims that a system with a mainboard and Intel x86 CPU comes with Intel Management Engine (ME), a subsystem composed of a special 32-bit ARC microprocessor that's physically located inside the chipset. It is an "extra general purpose computer." The problem resides in the way this "extra-computer" works. It runs completely out-of-band with the main x86 CPU "meaning that it can function totally independently even when your main CPU is in a low power state like S3 (suspend)." On some chipsets, the firmware running on the ME implements a system called Intel's Active Management Technology (AMT). This is entirely transparent to the operating system, which means that this extra computer can do its job regardless of which operating system is installed and running on the main CPU. From the report: The purpose of AMT is to provide a way to manage computers remotely (this is similar to an older system called "Intelligent Platform Management Interface" or IPMI, but more powerful). To achieve this task, the ME is capable of accessing any memory region without the main x86 CPU knowing about the existence of these accesses. It also runs a TCP/IP server on your network interface and packets entering and leaving your machine on certain ports bypass any firewall running on your system. Update: 06/15 18:54 GMT by M :A reader points out that this "extra computer" could be there to enable low-power functionalities such as quick boot and quality testing.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    edited June 2016
    Quizzical said:
    This answers quite a few questions.

    Is the Radeon RX 480 fast enough to make the GTX 1070 irrelevant?  No.  As I said earlier, while it does beat the GTX 1070 in performance per dollar, that measure usually goes down as you go to higher end cards, anyway, so the GTX 1070 still has a place in the market, or at least will once it's in stock.

    Is it a hard launch?  Probably not, but as of right now, New Egg only shows one RX 480 for me, and it's out of stock.  Several other listings that were there earlier today have vanished.  So something is amiss and they might still have cards where no one can find them.  But if it's only in stock until it shows up on the web page, is it really in stock?

    Is it unable to clock above 800 MHz?  Ha ha, no.  That rumor was just wrong.

    Is it a compelling value, or perhaps rather, would it be if it were in stock?  Certainly.  $200 for something that hangs with a GTX 970 is a much better value than a much more expensive GTX 970.  Of course, prices of competing cards can and probably will change.

    Does it have enough memory bandwidth?  At lower resolutions, probably.  TechPowerUp showed it hanging with a Radeon R9 390 at lower resolutions, but falling behind at higher resolutions.  Given that the RX 480 has more computational power as well as supposedly being a better architecture, it should be faster than an R9 390 if that's the bottleneck.  That it isn't points to the extra bandwidth of the R9 390 being important at higher resolutions, or possibly some extra compute stuff in the Hawaii chip making a difference.  I wouldn't bet on the latter, though.

    Is the card hot and loud?  Reference coolers typically aren't the best.  And what would you expect from an architecture that AMD named after a star, which runs notoriously hot?
    still shows decent stock on newegg to me, bot 4GB and 8GB, but i guess that changes

    EU:

    http://www.mindfactory.de

    430 sold, but they had more listed that sold out so not listed any more, still in stock at EU Germany MSRP.

    970 would have to cost < 179$ to be worth buying really

    i would like to see some 1440p/4k tests with only memory OC as that would show is it bandwidth bottleneck

    reference coolers are reference coolers, dont expect miracles, its not by chance theres AIBs with their coolers do much better job.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,826
    edited June 2016
    Next morning - same 9 SKUs listed on Newegg - All out of stock but I'm not seeing any listings for over MSRP yet.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,979
    Now I see 11 models on New Egg, all out of stock.  It looks like New Egg has fixed the problems of cards not showing up.

    So this is definitely not a hard launch.  It remains to be seen whether it's a soft launch or a paper launch.  It sounds like they had a lot of cards, but just not enough to meet demand, which would point toward a soft launch.  But we'll see. There's a big difference between wide availability coming in a few days and not coming for a few months.

    AMD might be getting all or essentially all of Global Foundries 14 nm capacity at the moment.  That has happened for a while on some previous process nodes, though I don't know if it's the case on this one.  Nvidia certainly can't get any more than a small fraction of TSMC's 16 nm.  But the latter probably has massively more capacity than GlobalFoundries.

    Memory chips for the RX 480 shouldn't be a problem, as it's just GDDR5.  While 8 Gbps GDDR5 is fairly new, 7 Gbps was used as long ago as the GeForce GTX 770, so it should be abundant.  Barring some unexpected hiccup (and there are a zillion things that can go wrong, most of which won't), it's just a question of how many working chips AMD can get and how soon.  Or perhaps rather, how many they did get and when, as it takes a while for stuff to get shipped around the world and show up at retail.

    There's also the issue that there's a lot more demand for the RX 480 than for the GTX 1080, simply because there's a lot more demand for good $200 cards than for good $700 cards.
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