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Discussion on pvp, ganking and the life penalty
Drakenhoff
Member UncommonPosts: 301
Ok so not to hijack the other thread I am posting a new discussion to discus the merits of pvp. I will try getting the previous topic in a quote so we can continue where we left off.
Let's also try to keep this one mature and free from personal attacks
Let's also try to keep this one mature and free from personal attacks
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
Comments
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
Players that is interested in griefing/ganking will find ways. I don't see this life spark punishment as a solid sollution to ganking/griefing. Played just about all hardcore PvP MMO games for almost 20 years and the so far best one for preventing griefing was the UO sollution with felucca and it's mirror world trammel.
Felucca was also consensual PvP. There was a setting of rules in felucca and by leaving trammel you accepted those rules. If you didn't like being part of such hardcore PvP then you had trammel to fall back on.
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
Right now it sure does look like they(CoE) are aiming for the haves and the haves not. Which is something they have already espoused as aiming for.
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
Unless CoE is willing to promote punishments that actually affect the player, any in-game judicial system is likely to fail. Tying a punishment to a player (financial penalty automatically charged to a mandatory credit card) would be a game-closing failure. (And the credit card companies would very likely get upset with the number of 'challenged charges' from one specific vendor, before anyone gets the idea that they would just get the charges removed from their credit bill).
Punishment ultimately comes down to a voluntary act -- one of role playing. Is CoE expecting to have a player base with 100% acceptance of penalties? Everyone who's tried to role play by acting has probably come across the 'This is a game, I will do what I want' attitude. That attitude doesn't seem compatible with communal role playing, where even a small percentage can be disruptive. I think that a 100% compliance level may very well be unrealistic.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
There are some key differences, however, I feel personally they counter themselves enough to make comparing the amount of ganking in Age of Wushu/Wulin comparable to what I believe will be the case in this game.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
"The big issue with a justice system approach is the ability for the player to leave the game to avoid the penalty for disruptive behavior. A player could simply log in an alt / secondary account and continue the behavior that caused the problem. Any penalty with a timer is too easily avoided."
Yes, there will be some players with alts or secondary characters but each character is independent (not account based). There is NO LOGING OUT, as your charactes will remain in game 24/7. Even if you swap to play a ALT, your first character remains in game in a OPC (Offline Player Character) mode.
And where to begin with this one, have you even read up on the game?
"Tying a punishment to a player (financial penalty automatically charged to a mandatory credit card) would be a game-closing failure."
Where in the world did you get the idea that if you kill somone in game that CoE will charge your credit card? Wow, I don't know where to go with this... Yes you will have a financial penalty per death (loss of spirit) but that is so minute that you would not even feel it (2 days per death over a year's lifespan). Now if you die alot or kill alot that year can be reduced to perhaps 4 months (that is if you are really pushing things) (4 months / $30 per spark = less than $10 per month well under any available subscription game). Now it is at this time you need to apply a purchased spark of life for another year of play. So this auto-billing a credit card is just ludacris and I don't even know how you could dream up such a scenario.
@Morwynn a slight couple of errors but otherwise perfect.
It's 4 days loss per gank not 2 days unless they reduced it.
And a ganker can lose an unlimited amount so they could lose all 365 days (approx) in one session if they ganked enough people...
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
When you do loot someone's body you can only carry so much. There is no epic gear or soul bound unique gear so killing the same person over and over kinda loses its appeal. Not to mention, if you take everything off my body....it's not the end of the world. They are simple items that I can remake or buy again most likely.
Not to mention you won't be able to tell just from glancing at individuals if they are an NPC or a PC and there are no names floating above heads.
I think some of these and a whole lot more will go a decent ways in reducing/ balancing griefing. Kind of takes the reward out of it. And for those that do....they will simply burn through their soul quickly. And in general....why are you traveling around unfamiliar country alone anyways? Take a friend or two.
Also thanks to all the contributors for not atracking each other so far and having a reasonable discussion
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
This is a hypothetical example of a system that directly punishes the player, not the character, not intended to represent CoE or their position. I agree, it's a bad idea. It can only lead to displeasure in the player base, and ultimately driving players away. But, given other ideas that CoE has already embraced, it doesn't seem a tremendous stretch to me for them to try this idea out. So, while the idea isn't currently in CoE's plans, it is possible that they try to implement such a system.
But if you look at CoE's proposed system, as you quoted above, there is a financial cost to the victim. The proposed plan is to indirectly penalize someone who dies by requiring them to pay for a spark sooner than they would have normally. The perpetrator of the action doesn't get a similar penalty. So, the system that CoE is planning to use punishes the victim with financial loss, but the murderer gets away without punishment. Eventually, someone else will notice this. That realization will drive away people.
A system that punishes the victim isn't any kind of justice.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
1. No idea on how the identification system will work.
a. If the NPCs auto-identify... whole skill systems are worthless
b. If no auto-identify, moving around is not going to be difficult. There is this implication that players wont be going more than 5 miles from their starting town.
2. The looting system in place is next to worthless. This game is not about gear. It is going to be about making people lose game time
3. This whole idea that you will instantly know who is pking or not isn't nearly so cut and dried as is being implied by the fans.
Here is one huge caveat Ranged Combat.
Everyone is human.
I know CCP wrestles with this, and COE may find a very vocal but significant group of players who want the penalties dialed back some.
Balance becomes tricky, especially as devs work towards solutions to try and keep the most customers happy.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They keep saying survival and open pvp game. Then you dig deeper and sure it's kinda survival based and sorta open world pvp however it comes with a but 1, a but 2, a but 3, a but 4...
Don't want gankers in your castle? Don't open the gates for them. "Gankers" will have to eventually rely on the economy to get them weapons, armor, food and other survival tools to keep alive in a game where death is very much a thing. Ganking is such a high risk/low reward game because the losses you can sustain greatly outweigh the benefits. Jailtime is probably the worst thing for your character because not only are you not able to play for a X period of time but your character will continue to age and lose much of his lifespan -- and for what?
At the end of the day the gankers will need to go to a town for a meal & food and to be apart of the economy most likely ruled by less focused pvpers.
Have the CoE devs created the worlds first independent AI ?
Just observing a character ingame for a few minutes will make it absolutely obvious whether it's a scripted NPC or not.
In every MMO I've ever played, exploits and glitches were always found by the players. No testing team can ever hope to cover everything that 100K players can dream up. Human ingenuity is boundless, as most experienced MMO players can tell you !
If you're hellbent on having a murderer character in the game, being banned from towns and trading is a minor inconvenience. Just get a second account so that your bandit can be fed by a law-abiding citizen. I'm sure there will even be players that will specialize in providing those services (at a price).
As i see it these developers have chosen the wrong approach to minimize griefing/ganking, they should have choosen the UO version of statloss for PK:s and a mirror world for the one's that don't enjoy taking part in hard core PvP with high risk and reward.
I see their decision trying to please 2 different groups of players on the same game world to be more problems for them that it is worth.
Divide them and let both play styles carry on fully with what they enjoy. A trammel player could enter felucca for the thrill and it was then consensual PvP since he himself took the decision to enter.
I just don't understand why it is so important to keep these often totally different play styles together?
Taking advantage of game mechanisms was a sport in felucca UO.
And yes, it is easy to see the difference btw a NPC and a player.