There was a game where it was quite easy to sell in-game stuff for real money. It was a niche MMOTSG (tactical simulation game) about WW2 battleships. I made $100 after playing the game for only ten hours once. It was during some triple exp anniversary week-end event when I decided to train some fighter pilots. I eventually lost interest in aircraft carrier gameplay and someone offered $100 for them.
I don't see this as being viable, because an MMO has limited resources. Buying and selling the same objects which everyone will eventually have isn't profitable. Everything is made by the devs. Entropia Universe tried this and ultimately failed. User-created objects would be much more profitable.
If anything this used to be the case far more in the old old days than today.
In old AC and Everquest back when they were new, there were a lot of people who sold items over ebay, or simply to each other at the commons tunnel. The values were fairly small but could add up.
While many people who did real money transfers were net neutral, or negative, there were quite a few who earned roughly the same amount as they paid in monthly fees to play, and others who made small to moderate amounts of money at it per month.
It is kind of neat to have a hobby that has a positive return per month, no matter how small, as opposed to costing you money.
Then there was the value of the character at the end if you decided to quit the game -- something that doesn't exist anymore either (at least not legally and even then you would be up against the institutionalized goldsellers or working for them -- it is a different age.)
In first place, people in poorer areas of the world who think $1 an hour is a good wage, don't have access to basic resources, far less to a computer, especially one that can run the game and decent internet, and the fact they will be paying fees from box to monthly sub to the game for access, makes it even less affordable.
At the end the more people are playing the game the better since it will generate more revenue and more also doesn't mean just more sellers, but also more in demand to buy things from others.
I remember seeing a documentary on gaming warehouses in China. A guy sets of computers buys internet and games then hire people to gold farm, item farm, and level characters in game. They worked in shifts and weren't paid that much but it was more then they could make anywhere else. There was also a guy in the US who was doing the same thing but was shut down and talked a lot about the money he was making on his Youtube channel. So in poor countries it's not to hard for someone to setup a workfarm hire labor just like computer scammers do.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I don't see this as being viable, because an MMO has limited resources. Buying and selling the same objects which everyone will eventually have isn't profitable. Everything is made by the devs. Entropia Universe tried this and ultimately failed. User-created objects would be much more profitable.
Entropia Universe is still running and getting updates. It's never been big enough to be really called success, but it's not been a failure either.
I don't see this as being viable, because an MMO has limited resources. Buying and selling the same objects which everyone will eventually have isn't profitable. Everything is made by the devs. Entropia Universe tried this and ultimately failed. User-created objects would be much more profitable.
Entropia Universe is still running and getting updates. It's never been big enough to be really called success, but it's not been a failure either.
I probably should've clarified better, but Entropia is very niche. Only a small percentage within that community ever makes profits. It's just not profitable for the time put in.
I made $700 playing Entropia Universe. I was a very casual player, at the end of 5 years cashed out my entire account quickly over 24 hours and walked with a nice little wire transfer to my checking account.
How would you like to make lot's of $ while playing a great MMORPG? Seems too good to be true? Well, it ain't. In fact I'm convinced the next MMORPG that will take over the market will be the one that makes this possible for their consumer and potential customers. We all know so far, the only individuals that are mostly "allowed" to choose and sell their currency, items, accounts etc. for $ are via 3rd party "illegal" sites, yet somehow they are running well and making profits as well as the company itself it chooses to run a cash shop selling directly pay to win or pay to advance or any other convenience items by a push of a button.
So, it all comes to which company and which game can offer more to their consumer or potential custumer and I am convinced whichever MMORPG (obviously has to be great first) allows directly through a safe system for players to make virtual transactions for $ and simply let them choose if they want to win more in game or in real life will see a huge surge of players interest.
Will this allow the super rich and whales to win at the game they are playing? Yes, but this doesn't change anything since already this is possible in every single muliplayer game. All you have to do is contact the individual and persuade him with upfront paypal sum to get anything from his items to his account, since everything has a price, or simply google "buy x" and you can easily find enough sites offering the exact same.
Bottom line, it's time someone to wake up and realize how much more appeal their game would be if players can also see profits playing it both ingame or in real life. All this will do is give more choice/options to the consumer/customer and at the end in every business the customer has the final vote if he will spend $ on your product or not.
Didnt Diablo III try that and fail miserably?
Anyway the main problem would be the char/gold sellers/farmers would have to choose , if they should sell over 3rd party website for 100% profits ,or via publisher for less profit ,but safer transaction.I think most will choose 100%
It could be some workaround but dunno how. Anyway the whole making of people earning money in games is repulsive, so are gold farmers. You should play a game to have fun, thats their purpose.Playing to grind, is bad, and so is bad when you buy gold outright, it kills the gameplay for you. Also that would stimulate P2W incredibly, and people that P2W ,mostly dont stay long for the ride, the satisfaction from buying your way through the game, and making your own, has huge difference. Players that accomplish everything ingame have MUCH better experience and more fun, in the game itself.
Look at real life for example. It can be considered a full sandbox MMO where everything is player created with total freedom and risk to try to make/do anything. Many players are enjoying this sandbox MMO and many are also making profits while enjoying their careers or other things they're doing. The final fact that our real life MMO is directly connected by these mini, virtual MMO's we create and how we try to get the currency in our real life MMO from these games just shows how important is players to feel rewards and profits out of their effort, time and dedication they put in.
The problem in our modern age is people are careless less about what is happening around them, too focused and consumed by all the entertainment and other pleasures, which only makes their problems around them to grow far bigger when unchecked, and then it will be much harder to tackle, especially by themselves. A disease when left unchecked can turn into a plague for instance.
Truth is we can do things to discourage anyone taking advantage of us and what we do. We can protect what's ours, but again because we are too focused on so much entertainment and everything else, those who are hungrier and want our things more than we do tend to eventually get it. PvP at its basis 101.
Gold sellers, botters, cheaters and cash shops are all outcome of players not caring enough to vote with their wallets on those products that allow these things to prosper and flourish. Laws also that do not defend our virtual property and those binding agreements that basically say the game publisher/company owns all (your character/account/items) etc. are further sign that at the end we are those who allow others to stomp on us.
Well, I haven't since I did vote with my wallet through these last 5½ years and like I said in this thread, whoever will be successful in delivering a product where the potential customer and consumer can see profits out of enjoying their product will obviously see far bigger success and capture a market that has never been captured before.
Real life or in game, people deserve to be rewarded for their time, effort, and simply all the things they choose to do to earn. If something has a value to someone it surely has for someone else. At the end it all comes down to who wants it more and many times in past players offered me currency for things I've had, but at the end I decide if they deserve to use those things more than me or not based on their offers and in reality someone with millions of $ in his bank account could make me quickly rich by just few transactions and basically choose to lose more in the game by giving up on something to win more in real life for instance.
So, yes it will most likely be 6 years since I've opened my wallet to a new product and until I see a product that I believe is the future for gaming that will continue.
I paid for a semester's worth of college books from Second Life income. I imagine if I kept doing what I was(spending a couple of days freetime to get some $20 to $50 upfront, and 50% of the income from a project*) I could have got to the point where I was make rent every couple of months. Maybe sooner if I set myself up as a front person instead of background one, and sought other income(advertisment/blogging/SL land sales/whatever).
To be honest the biggest thing that I can say out of the whole ordeal, was that anyone willing to put in the work to make their hobby an income source is probably better off putting in a fraction of the work to be in the top 5 at a normal work place. I would say that the same holds true for streamers/profesional gamers/youtubers/"new media what'z'its", since they're working in the same type of system where it's rigged against them while their own work majorly profits someone else no matter how good/bad they do.
*The later was the actual income source, the first part was to make people prove they had some sort of resource themselves.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Diablo 3 auction house didn't fail. Blizzard understood that it was sucking the enjoyment for many people out of the game and removed it. These types of transactions have existed in MMOs for a long time and they always make the in game economies very bad due to insane prices on items that force people to buy gold from farmers. The farmer will farm gold all day because it is a job for them. The player just wants to have some fun. This is true for items or in game gold. It also makes it difficult to get things done in non instance areas for the non farmer. Basically it was exploitation of the player base, but now it's exploitation by the developers in many cases because they can't find a way to stop the farmers. I also haven't played an MMO in quite a while partly because I don't like the payment model in place. I also don't like the way MMOs are built now, but voting with my wallet doesn't help. There are too many people who like the current model.
@LittleBoot, wrong. There are plenty of people in real life that enjoy their hobby while making insane amount of $, from sport athletes to actors and singers as some examples.
@Flyte27, again that's game design issues. If the game allows easily currency to be raked by some low skilled farmer then its doomed to have negative effect. It's up to game designers to make great games where the things players achieve and obtain are not something easily done by some farmer or bot.
@Little-boot and it's not a job as long as you are enjoying it while making extra $ from things you could need less but someone else would need it more and pay you $ for it. Choosing the $ over virtual currency/item if that also would make you happier is a win. At the end its up to the player himself to CHOOSE where he wants to win more, and this option given to the consumer and potential customer will always make the product feel far more appealing and at advantage over a product that's not offering this choice.
In my 30+ years of being in the workforce, all I can say is the words "enjoyment" and "making a living" rarely belong in the same sentence. If for some reason the two DO coincide, it's fleeting.
No, enjoyment and making money is completely 2 seperate things. There are people who are willing to pay and some of others like to sell. $80/h is nothing by the way... That guy on the first page is extremely ignorant.
No, enjoyment and making money is completely 2 seperate things. There are people who are willing to pay and some of others like to sell. $80/h is nothing by the way... That guy on the first page is extremely ignorant.
That's over $150K a year.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Second Life. Start your own digital business and make real life money. This game is pretty much the future.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
One problem with it is that only very few players will make decent money. Most won't. Otherwise it wouldn't be sustainable. Thus if your main marketing gimmick is "If you put in some effort you can make good money while playing" it could backfire when all those players realize the claims are not true at all.
If it's a side feature and you market it as "have a chance at eventually making some side cash", sure, why not. But I would be careful with the heavyhanded overpromising.
Comments
* more info, screenshots and videos here
In old AC and Everquest back when they were new, there were a lot of people who sold items over ebay, or simply to each other at the commons tunnel. The values were fairly small but could add up.
While many people who did real money transfers were net neutral, or negative, there were quite a few who earned roughly the same amount as they paid in monthly fees to play, and others who made small to moderate amounts of money at it per month.
It is kind of neat to have a hobby that has a positive return per month, no matter how small, as opposed to costing you money.
Then there was the value of the character at the end if you decided to quit the game -- something that doesn't exist anymore either (at least not legally and even then you would be up against the institutionalized goldsellers or working for them -- it is a different age.)
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Anyway the main problem would be the char/gold sellers/farmers would have to choose , if they should sell over 3rd party website for 100% profits ,or via publisher for less profit ,but safer transaction.I think most will choose 100%
It could be some workaround but dunno how.
Anyway the whole making of people earning money in games is repulsive, so are gold farmers.
You should play a game to have fun, thats their purpose.Playing to grind, is bad, and so is bad when you buy gold outright, it kills the gameplay for you. Also that would stimulate P2W incredibly, and people that P2W ,mostly dont stay long for the ride, the satisfaction from buying your way through the game, and making your own, has huge difference. Players that accomplish everything ingame have MUCH better experience and more fun, in the game itself.
But i did it by investing , have been investing in Dev/Publishers etc .. since the 80s ...to present.
The problem in our modern age is people are careless less about what is happening around them, too focused and consumed by all the entertainment and other pleasures, which only makes their problems around them to grow far bigger when unchecked, and then it will be much harder to tackle, especially by themselves. A disease when left unchecked can turn into a plague for instance.
Truth is we can do things to discourage anyone taking advantage of us and what we do. We can protect what's ours, but again because we are too focused on so much entertainment and everything else, those who are hungrier and want our things more than we do tend to eventually get it. PvP at its basis 101.
Gold sellers, botters, cheaters and cash shops are all outcome of players not caring enough to vote with their wallets on those products that allow these things to prosper and flourish. Laws also that do not defend our virtual property and those binding agreements that basically say the game publisher/company owns all (your character/account/items) etc. are further sign that at the end we are those who allow others to stomp on us.
Well, I haven't since I did vote with my wallet through these last 5½ years and like I said in this thread, whoever will be successful in delivering a product where the potential customer and consumer can see profits out of enjoying their product will obviously see far bigger success and capture a market that has never been captured before.
Real life or in game, people deserve to be rewarded for their time, effort, and simply all the things they choose to do to earn. If something has a value to someone it surely has for someone else. At the end it all comes down to who wants it more and many times in past players offered me currency for things I've had, but at the end I decide if they deserve to use those things more than me or not based on their offers and in reality someone with millions of $ in his bank account could make me quickly rich by just few transactions and basically choose to lose more in the game by giving up on something to win more in real life for instance.
So, yes it will most likely be 6 years since I've opened my wallet to a new product and until I see a product that I believe is the future for gaming that will continue.
To be honest the biggest thing that I can say out of the whole ordeal, was that anyone willing to put in the work to make their hobby an income source is probably better off putting in a fraction of the work to be in the top 5 at a normal work place. I would say that the same holds true for streamers/profesional gamers/youtubers/"new media what'z'its", since they're working in the same type of system where it's rigged against them while their own work majorly profits someone else no matter how good/bad they do.
*The later was the actual income source, the first part was to make people prove they had some sort of resource themselves.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
@Flyte27, again that's game design issues. If the game allows easily currency to be raked by some low skilled farmer then its doomed to have negative effect. It's up to game designers to make great games where the things players achieve and obtain are not something easily done by some farmer or bot.
@Little-boot and it's not a job as long as you are enjoying it while making extra $ from things you could need less but someone else would need it more and pay you $ for it. Choosing the $ over virtual currency/item if that also would make you happier is a win. At the end its up to the player himself to CHOOSE where he wants to win more, and this option given to the consumer and potential customer will always make the product feel far more appealing and at advantage over a product that's not offering this choice.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Thus if your main marketing gimmick is "If you put in some effort you can make good money while playing" it could backfire when all those players realize the claims are not true at all.
If it's a side feature and you market it as "have a chance at eventually making some side cash", sure, why not. But I would be careful with the heavyhanded overpromising.