More Proof Home VR Sets Are Struggling

maskedweasel

According to HTC Reports, the Vive's very soft (and that's being generous) sales haven't helped grow HTC at all.  

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/launch-vive-flagship-smartphone-fail-222254579.html

"The April launch of the Vive and a new smartphone weren’t enough to bounce HTC back into the game as the Taiwanese company had a poor fiscal showing for the month of May, with year-over-year results down by 37.4 percent."

"The company saw a small boost of 17.4 percent in unaudited consolidated revenue from April to May, but it’s troubling that with the flagship HTC 10 available now, as well as one of the most well-received virtual reality headsets, HTC’s consolidated revenue still managed to go down by 58.5 percent in comparison to the same five-month time frame from last year."

It has been touted as the BEST VR headset .. and it by far is much better than the Rift, as it has motion sensors, a pass through camera, and actual controllers for it whereas the rift has... well.. none of that.   

Just as I mentioned before, the Vive might be out of production before VR really even "kicks off" with content that is actually worth playing.  Probably in.... 2 to 3 years.  The real question is,  with all of the missteps HTC has made, including the Vive and spending Millions on third party developers to develop for the vive -- will HTC still be around in 2 years?

Kilrain

Considering we're just hopping into the VR generation, it would have been a very bad move to think a first gen component would make profit. This is of course due to cost and content. Once their is significant content and the cost of a peripheral drops to something far more reasonable then the profits can happen.

Little-Boot

VR is the same as 3D TVs- a fad for those with more money than sense, or no control over their spending habits, or who are easily seduced by advertising and marketing. Why did 3D TVs fail? Because people don't want to arrange all of their furniture at a precise distance and orientation from the TV and spend their evenings wearing silly glasses. Why will VR fail? Because people don't want to wear a silly headset and shut out the outside world for entire evenings, they can't, they have too many other things going on. 

DKLond

Tech isn't at the stage where it needs to be, price is too high, and there's yet to be a single great VR game that feels like a must.

How anyone can expect this to be a great success, I have no idea.

That said, I'm hoping it won't outright die again. I'd like it to be a first step towards proper VR.

Lokero

DKLond said:

there's yet to be a single great VR game that feels like a must.

I think this is currently the biggest problem VR faces.  Price aside, because there's always people who will buy up new tech if there's enough incentive; there's just nothing to utilize the tech yet.

So far, there's just literally no "real" games available.  Maybe Elite: Dangerous?  I think that's about the only truly notable game.  Everything else released so far is just using the tech in a gimmicky fashion.

I think the launches should have been timed better with true game releases that would inspire interested parties and not just tech demos.

DKLond

Lokero said:

DKLond said:

there's yet to be a single great VR game that feels like a must.

I think this is currently the biggest problem VR faces.  Price aside, because there's always people who will buy up new tech if there's enough incentive; there's just nothing to utilize the tech yet.

So far, there's just literally no "real" games available.  Maybe Elite: Dangerous?  I think that's about the only truly notable game.  Everything else released so far is just using the tech in a gimmicky fashion.

I think the launches should have been timed better with true game releases that would inspire interested parties and not just tech demos.

Unfortunately, I don't consider Elite Dangerous a must by any stretch of the imagination, with or without VR.

That said, it probably IS one of the best games out there with decent VR support. Well, since I don't own VR hardware - I can't say for sure. But just looking at the VR library on Steam - it seems the vast majority of titles is just a bunch of gimmicky crap.

Which is pretty telling, I'd say.

mayh3m

The moment Valve announces Portal 3 - VR ... the Vive sales will blow up. All joking aside there is no compelling reason to grab VR currently. 

Ramajama

Since the HTC VR sales are not good and HTC smartphone sales are not good probably means the era of VR and smartphones is over. Just like 3DTV. Everyone who thought it is the future is a dummy (including largest tech companies in the world). 

I am happy I didn't jump on these sheep bandwagons and still rolling my analog TV and fixed landline. 

Little-Boot

Ramajama said:

Since the HTC VR sales are not good and HTC smartphone sales are not good probably means the era of VR and smartphones is over. Just like 3DTV. Everyone who thought it is the future is a dummy (including largest tech companies in the world). 

I am happy I didn't jump on these sheep bandwagons and still rolling my analog TV and fixed landline. 

False equivalence.

Shaigh

DKLond said:

Lokero said:

DKLond said:

there's yet to be a single great VR game that feels like a must.

I think this is currently the biggest problem VR faces.  Price aside, because there's always people who will buy up new tech if there's enough incentive; there's just nothing to utilize the tech yet.

So far, there's just literally no "real" games available.  Maybe Elite: Dangerous?  I think that's about the only truly notable game.  Everything else released so far is just using the tech in a gimmicky fashion.

I think the launches should have been timed better with true game releases that would inspire interested parties and not just tech demos.

Unfortunately, I don't consider Elite Dangerous a must by any stretch of the imagination, with or without VR.

That said, it probably IS one of the best games out there with decent VR support. Well, since I don't own VR hardware - I can't say for sure. But just looking at the VR library on Steam - it seems the vast majority of titles is just a bunch of gimmicky crap.

Which is pretty telling, I'd say.

What makes this even worse is that there are no big plans for future VR games. At this point it looks like VR is only going to be for the enthusiasts that buy steering wheel or hotas for racing and space games.

Maybe sony has something up their sleeve to change this.

DKLond

Shaigh said:

DKLond said:

Lokero said:

DKLond said:

there's yet to be a single great VR game that feels like a must.

I think this is currently the biggest problem VR faces.  Price aside, because there's always people who will buy up new tech if there's enough incentive; there's just nothing to utilize the tech yet.

So far, there's just literally no "real" games available.  Maybe Elite: Dangerous?  I think that's about the only truly notable game.  Everything else released so far is just using the tech in a gimmicky fashion.

I think the launches should have been timed better with true game releases that would inspire interested parties and not just tech demos.

Unfortunately, I don't consider Elite Dangerous a must by any stretch of the imagination, with or without VR.

That said, it probably IS one of the best games out there with decent VR support. Well, since I don't own VR hardware - I can't say for sure. But just looking at the VR library on Steam - it seems the vast majority of titles is just a bunch of gimmicky crap.

Which is pretty telling, I'd say.

What makes this even worse is that there are no big plans for future VR games. At this point it looks like VR is only going to be for the enthusiasts that buy steering wheel or hotas for racing and space games.

Maybe sony has something up their sleeve to change this.

It's certainly a very strange way to do business.

I mean, if you're serious about making money - you need to go all the way and motivate developers years in advance.

That said, I'm just as puzzled when new consoles launch and it takes years before we see the truly desirable exclusives.

Phry

Early adopters of VR are not going to bring in massive profits, if any real profits, when VR eventually becomes more mainstream, that will change, current VR devices though are not the ones that will attract mainstream buyers, for that to happen, for the average PC gamer to consider purchasing a VR device, it will have to be quite a bit more streamlined, less intrusive, and definitely far more affordable than they currently are, and even then, that won't happen unless there is a reason to buy the things, which means, there needs to be a lot more games for VR available, most of which out there currently are little more than tech demos.
You can't write VR off at this point, but we are also a long way from the devices being mainstream, that will take at least another generation of VR devices.

cameltosis

We shouldn't really be calling these headsets "virtual reality" for a start. They are replacing one sense - sight - but not the rest of our senses, so we're still miles away from actual virtual reality. 


As for these headsets taking off, I agree with @DKLond - we need a standout game. 


To create that standout game, you need to consider what advantages these headsets offer over a normal tv / monitor. It seems to be very few:

• 3D vision / depth perception
• Free-look linked to head movements. 

That's really it. So, take these two advantages and try turning them into unique gameplay and then you've got the beginnings of your standout game. Personally, I can't think of anything that doesn't involve other unique peripherals. 

All the things I can think of where depth perception would actually be useful (driving, sport etc) would only really make use of the depth perception if you had other peripherals - e.g. playing baseball from wii sports where ball tracking / hitting was much more tightly linked with where you're standing, timing etc. 

Zhenocnra

Until I can play at the very least 15-20 mainstream MMORPG's in VR without a keyboard or mouse, I'm not investing a single cent in VR. I agree with what most has already been said, price and lack of VR support in MMORPG's/games need to looked at first.

scorpex-x

I knew VR would flop before it was even released it's completely obvious to anyone that looks at the past and our current society.

The only people who argue are people who bought into it and can't face reality.

GladDog

Little-Boot said:

Ramajama said:

Since the HTC VR sales are not good and HTC smartphone sales are not good probably means the era of VR and smartphones is over. Just like 3DTV. Everyone who thought it is the future is a dummy (including largest tech companies in the world). 

I am happy I didn't jump on these sheep bandwagons and still rolling my analog TV and fixed landline. 

False equivalence.

He was being sarcastic.  Microsoft did rather poorly with their Nokia purchase, but does that mean the world is abandoning smart phones because of that?

That was the point Ramajama was making.

-----------------------------------------

I'm very much planning to get a VR setup later this year.  I'll be getting a PS4VR setup, which will mark my transition to a console for gaming, as well as my entry to VR.  I think that will be the litmus test for the immediate future for VR, so that is where I will invest.

And don't count the Vive out yet.  The only reason VR is slow to take off is the lack of a 'Killer App', a game or program that will entice people that are on the fence into spending their money.  Once that crowd makes their impact, I bet VR takes off, at least moderately.

Phaserlight

DKLond said:

Lokero said:

DKLond said:

there's yet to be a single great VR game that feels like a must.

I think this is currently the biggest problem VR faces.  Price aside, because there's always people who will buy up new tech if there's enough incentive; there's just nothing to utilize the tech yet.

So far, there's just literally no "real" games available.  Maybe Elite: Dangerous?  I think that's about the only truly notable game.  Everything else released so far is just using the tech in a gimmicky fashion.

I think the launches should have been timed better with true game releases that would inspire interested parties and not just tech demos.

Unfortunately, I don't consider Elite Dangerous a must by any stretch of the imagination, with or without VR.

That said, it probably IS one of the best games out there with decent VR support. Well, since I don't own VR hardware - I can't say for sure. But just looking at the VR library on Steam - it seems the vast majority of titles is just a bunch of gimmicky crap.

Which is pretty telling, I'd say.

"More proof" and yet... I'm still very interested in a headset solution. Probably mobile, to be realistic.

There is a very great, developed game coming out for GearVR any day now(tm).

Title is in my signature.

Phaserlight

Oh, and by the way, word at Ars Technica is that Elite: Dangerous currently looks much better in Rift than Vive.  So... not sure you can really argue that Vive is the definitive canary in the coal mine when it comes to VR, much less that the health of HTC as a whole is a predictive measure for VR's future.

Ramajama

Phaserlight said:

DKLond said:

Lokero said:

DKLond said:

there's yet to be a single great VR game that feels like a must.

I think this is currently the biggest problem VR faces.  Price aside, because there's always people who will buy up new tech if there's enough incentive; there's just nothing to utilize the tech yet.

So far, there's just literally no "real" games available.  Maybe Elite: Dangerous?  I think that's about the only truly notable game.  Everything else released so far is just using the tech in a gimmicky fashion.

I think the launches should have been timed better with true game releases that would inspire interested parties and not just tech demos.

Unfortunately, I don't consider Elite Dangerous a must by any stretch of the imagination, with or without VR.

That said, it probably IS one of the best games out there with decent VR support. Well, since I don't own VR hardware - I can't say for sure. But just looking at the VR library on Steam - it seems the vast majority of titles is just a bunch of gimmicky crap.

Which is pretty telling, I'd say.

"More proof" and yet... I'm still very interested in a headset solution. Probably mobile, to be realistic.

There is a very great, developed game coming out for GearVR any day now(tm).

Title is in my signature.

That will be a huge flop. There is overwhelming evidence that VR is failing just as many people in here predicted it many years ago. 

/sarcasm off

Thanks for the tip, VR is the future and these headsets are great stepping stone to achieve a great entertainment tech. Can't wait for it tbh. Only tried for five minutes and knew that is the way I want to experience game worlds. 

SpottyGekko

If HTC were seriously banking their future financial health on the prospect of strong Vive sales, then they have far bigger problems in management than lacklustre headset sales, lol

When CD players first appeared on the market, they were unaffordable gimmicks with a tiny selection of super-pricey discs. How that changed after a few years !

Nephaerius

Man so much negativity. VR is a slow burn. Any company that got in on it knew this from the start or as others have suggested they're stupid. VR doesn't hinge solely on an amazing VR game.  VR opens up opportunities to play any non-VR game on say a movie theater sized screen, in another environment, online co-op in a room with your friends despite being on opposite sides of the earth, etc.

Additionally it makes watching movies at home great, including Netflix and Hulu. All while having huge potential for sports, esports, concerts, or any other live event. You can watch the recordings of the presidential debates on the Gear VR and it's 100x better than watching it on TV. Can you imagine being able to watch the Super Bowl from the field while in your home? Or how about being able to be on the actual Rift during LCS? There's a lot of potential that has nothing to do with the need for an actual game or anything gaming related itself.  Then you have all the medical and research applications that are only beginning to be tapped into.

Not to mention the majority of people are probably waiting for 2nd-4th gen before investing. There's already things like eye tracking coming to replace head tracking which will be a huge deal and of course the price will drop significantly. Whether the Vive fails or not VR is here to stay. 

Psym0n

As mentioned above it's not a big shock. I love HTC smartphones as they are sturdy and look great. I've played with the Vive and must say it's the best VR available. 

As for not being a cash cow.. it's not that weird as there isn't enough VR content. It's like watching TV back in the early 90's. I remember that there wasn't enough content out to fill the continuous stream of television. Same thing is happing with VR, it's there, but the steady stream of new VR content isn't produced yet. Just wait 2-3 years and it will probably be booming. 

maskedweasel

Phaserlight said:

Oh, and by the way, word at Ars Technica is that Elite: Dangerous currently looks much better in Rift than Vive.  So... not sure you can really argue that Vive is the definitive canary in the coal mine when it comes to VR, much less that the health of HTC as a whole is a predictive measure for VR's future.

I mean, sure it might "look" better which sounds great if all you care about is maybe color depth or pixel density.. which.. TBH both of them don't look great...   but the Vive is better overall in terms of playability.  The rift doesn't have controllers designed specifically for it yet... it doesn't have motion sensors if you're going to be using it standing up or walking around.. it doesn't have an integrated pass through camera so you can reacquaint yourself...   and furthermore Elite Dangerous isn't that great of a game.

It's a very niche game,  and across all platforms it's gotten very mixed and fairly poor reviews.

Unfortunately, the saturation of VR hardware with little to no real software support for VR is a very good predictive measure for VR as a whole.   I mean the Rift isn't making money either with hardware, Samsung is giving another round of headsets away throughout the month of June with an S7 purchase, and unfortunately HTC hasn't had Vives on Backorder and their new flagship phone isn't exactly selling well either.

It's a lukewarm launch of VR for every company,  but it's taking a larger toll on companies like HTC that can't catch a break even when they are the leader in something (the best, most easily playable VR set).

Why it matter is,  at the end of the year.. or two years.. we may only see one or two VR headset manufacturers, and those may be the ones who have invested so much at this point they need it to be profitable.  I believe that the prospective influence of VR tech by 2020 is way overblown like how 3D TV's were supposed to be by 2018.  

I don't think VR in general will disappear,  but I don't think it's the revolution many of these companies were counting on.

Astropuyo

VR is slow to take off...

Alright time to stop.

VR the concept and use have been around a very long time. I remember being tested in such things long ago well after lawnmower man and it's era.

I recall depth perception gimmicks like the virtual boy...oooohh ahhh depth perception. For everyone with two eyes that are 20/20.

Widespread use may be more "here now" but I use wide spread very very liberally as i know not one gamer who has or wants one.


So then you guys doing the console thing with VR. Prepare to have your ass pounded. Why?

Because you are incredibly stupid to trust a company that creates a tv for it's console and abandons support within months for it.

The guys buying console vr are going to be real pissed when sony stops supporting it and they will.

Allow me to cite the gimmicks just off the top of my hand that were abandoned...

Playstation move.
Play Station TV.
Play station 3d tv.
The playstation 3d glasses.


Ok so far I got only 4 and the glasses do matter because standard 3d glasses never worked right for the whole since screen 3d.

So yeah. Not to mention anyone buying a console at this time is a damned moron.
Why not just buy a ps3 when the launch of the ps4 hit? Because the ps4 we know is about to get buried.


Only stupid people buy into gimmicks from companies renown for pushing gimmicks.

observer

The VR doom-and-gloomers are laughable in this thread.  VR is here to stay.  It's not a gimmick.

The reason Vive sucks, is because of the software, not the hardware or technology behind it.

I remember when people said DVDs and Flat Screen televisions were also gimmicks, and that they were overpriced and would flop.  These same people eventually bought them.

As i've said before, it's all about content, and pushing VR primarily for games was a big mistake.  Hardware requirements is another factor.  Give it a few years for PC hardware and VR headsets to drop in price, and VR will be commonplace.  $99-199 is much more reasonable than $599+.

maskedweasel

observer said:

The VR doom-and-gloomers are laughable in this thread.  VR is here to stay.  It's not a gimmick.

The reason Vive sucks, is because of the software, not the hardware or technology behind it.

I remember when people said DVDs and Flat Screen televisions were also gimmicks, and that they were overpriced and would flop.  These same people eventually bought them.

As i've said before, it's all about content, and pushing VR primarily for games was a big mistake.  Hardware requirements is another factor.  Give it a few years for PC hardware and VR headsets to drop in price, and VR will be commonplace.  $99-199 is much more reasonable than $599+.

I don't ever remember anyone saying flat screen TVs or DVD's were a gimmick.. I do remember everyone saying 3D tv's weren't a gimmick.  Here's something funny too,  3D TV's were predicted to be a huge cash cow by now.  Billions of dollars of revenue a year, much much more money than prospected VR sets were set to achieve in their first 6 years.