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Brad's posts make me worried

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  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,481
    edited June 2016
    double post.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,516
    edited June 2016
    mbrodie said:
    mbrodie said:
    ehhh i think the progeny system is more of a worry to this game than the pet system and when they made the post on facebook about the progeny system, i replied saying i didnt think it was a good idea and listed several reasons why and then added the reason it works for CoE is because the whole game is built around that system and their reply was "we thought of it first" like... really...
    I think this is probably true.  I am one who likes the proposed progeny system (for a few reasons) but, similar to having too many pets, I think it might turn a lot of people off (more so than having too many pets even).

    The difference is a lot of people aren't familiar with a system like this so there isn't the general outcry that we saw with pets.

    There is also a whole bunch of discussion about the progeny system on the forums from people who have admitted that they have no experience with a similar system so they are basically talking about something they have no understanding of.   They don't have a frame of reference to base their thoughts on so it ends up being a very bad conversation with twisted logic.

    I have stopped adding to that conversation because, even though I have played something similar, it is difficult to talk about it with others who haven't.
    from what they said on facebook - to the proposed notes i read that they linked on the website... the benefit doesn't outweigh the loss, like.... for CoE it's a core mechanic of the game, for PRoTF it seems like something they added in because they think it would be cool and doesn't really mesh with what the game should be... 

    now i know it's completely optional but thats the point... i see a very very low % of people actually using it when it comes to brass tax....

    let's say for example, like everquest you spent months leveling, did your epic quest for your weapon, been farming open world random spawn time bosses in bind rush groups, doing all the fun stuff gearing up getting l337 and then what, you gonna wanna throw away all of that to get a couple of skills towards a new build that don't even cross class properly....

    thats what i mean about it not suiting the game no matter how much they dress it up, if you have a gear based game where farming high end items is a thing and then put in a mechanic that directly counters that mechanic by making you lose it for a couple of bonuses and slightly faster leveling the second time around.... i'd rather play an alt.
    Progeny is just one more way to encourage players to revisit the early game, keeping it populated for new players while providing old players with some bonuses for sacrificing their character and starting fresh.

    It doesn't sound like you are really familiar with what a progeny character entails. You aren't "throwing away" everything. Much (if not all) of what you achieved, you will get to inherit. Its simply a better twink that comes at the cost of your former character.

    They haven't even given all the details yet, so your post is highly speculative.

    That said, I'm not personally that excited about the feature because I may not have the time to utilize it. Still, I can see its value in keeping people playing, keeping the world populated, and especially providing someone for low level players to group with (perpetuating the world is the ultimate goal in an MMORPG).


  • TwoTubesTwoTubes Member UncommonPosts: 172
    I don't see where that says gear won't be carried over.  I'm going to take it to pms.  I don't want to dscuss an entirely different topic here anymore...
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,481
    edited June 2016
    Dullahan said:
    Progeny is just one more way to encourage players to revisit the early game, keeping it populated for new players while providing old players with some bonuses for sacrificing their character and starting fresh.

    It doesn't sound like you are really familiar with what a progeny character entails. You aren't "throwing away" everything. Much (if not all) of what you achieved, you will get to inherit. Its simply a better twink that comes at the cost of your former character.

    They haven't even given all the details yet, so your post is highly speculative.

    That said, I'm not particularly excited about the feature, but I can see its value in keeping people playing, keeping the world populated, and providing someone for low level players to group with (which is the ultimate goal for an MMORPG).
    you should probably read the screenshot i posted on the previous page.
    better yet

    "it is optional so if you want to stay max level and farm AAs and end game content you can have fun with that, while others can retire their mains and start fresh with some small bonuses for their next playthrough"

    "this is only for max level character, you have to choose to retire them forever never having access to them again to pass on a few bonuses to your child or stay at max and continue playing end game. It won't apply to alts or any other character it's a sacrifice you will have to make if you want the slight advantage"

    i'm not just talking crap, i'm taking the infdrmation given by the devs.


  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,516
    edited June 2016
    mbrodie said:
    Dullahan said:
    Progeny is just one more way to encourage players to revisit the early game, keeping it populated for new players while providing old players with some bonuses for sacrificing their character and starting fresh.

    It doesn't sound like you are really familiar with what a progeny character entails. You aren't "throwing away" everything. Much (if not all) of what you achieved, you will get to inherit. Its simply a better twink that comes at the cost of your former character.

    They haven't even given all the details yet, so your post is highly speculative.

    That said, I'm not particularly excited about the feature, but I can see its value in keeping people playing, keeping the world populated, and providing someone for low level players to group with (which is the ultimate goal for an MMORPG).
    you should probably read the screenshot i posted on the previous page.
    better yet

    "it is optional so if you want to stay max level and farm AAs and end game content you can have fun with that, while others can retire their mains and start fresh with some small bonuses for their next playthrough"

    "this is only for max level character, you have to choose to retire them forever never having access to them again to pass on a few bonuses to your child or stay at max and continue playing end game. It won't apply to alts or any other character it's a sacrifice you will have to make if you want the slight advantage"

    i'm not just talking crap, i'm taking the infdrmation given by the devs.


    That really provided very little information on what the system will entail. There are more specifics out there, but I'm almost certain that they are still working on the details as it something that depends on the rest of the game being completed first.

    Also, Kilsin is not a developer, he is the community manager.


  • CymdaiCymdai Member UncommonPosts: 1,041
    Today I learned that talking about Brad McQuaid in a thread about Brad McQuaid is against the T.O.S.

    Le sigh.

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • NyghthowlerNyghthowler Member UncommonPosts: 268
    When are gamers gonna learn that anything Brad is involved with is gonna fail, HARD.


    Flame away; I don't care. It's simply the truth.

    1. You have the right to shut the hell up.
    2. You have the right to a opinion just as soon as I tell you what it is.
    3. You have the right to die quietly or kicking and screaming. It doesn't really make a difference because you're dead either way.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,601
    I always like common sense reasoning in my games.All classes having pets doesn't make much sense,you are never going to see a 100% pet owners in real life,so why would you expect it in a game trying to replicate role playing?

    I think the answer is obvious and should not be of any surprise,this is likely ONLY a feature or idea to support cash shop.We all know how much pets are used/sold in cash shops across the gaming genres,so yeah we should expect more the same here although i do not condone it.

    Furthermore pets giving more storage is just a really stupid idea,unless you have a horse with a backpack but i am sure most of us have seen squirrel pets with added storage space,noting more than gimmicks to make CS sales.
    I NEED to see games focus on the game and not cash shops,it ruins everything for me and will turn me right off any game if i see too much focus on the CS.Of course this is not fact as of yet,but we can be pretty sure based on the last 15 years of gaming that it is indeed fact.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,516
    When are gamers gonna learn that anything Brad is involved with is gonna fail, HARD.


    Flame away; I don't care. It's simply the truth.
    I guess you missed EverQuest; you know, the game that popularized the mmorpg genre.


  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,647
    edited June 2016
    Dullahan said:
    When are gamers gonna learn that anything Brad is involved with is gonna fail, HARD.


    Flame away; I don't care. It's simply the truth.
    I guess you missed EverQuest; you know, the game that popularized the mmorpg genre.

    EQ certainly contributed to the genre, but it was not popular considering that more than 2 million people tried the game and it never retained more than 500k at its peak.  World of Warcraft is the game that popularized and mainstreamed MMOs.  Before WoW, we were all deemed basement dwellers with poop socks and zero social lives.


    I'm a casual gamer that loves to play with lots of alts.  I don't see myself utilizing this feature primarily because I like to use my higher level characters to farm for gear or money to pass along to each new alt.  It would have to be a very large bonus to sacrifice an old character for the new for me to even consider it.

    image
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,516
    Dullahan said:
    When are gamers gonna learn that anything Brad is involved with is gonna fail, HARD.


    Flame away; I don't care. It's simply the truth.
    I guess you missed EverQuest; you know, the game that popularized the mmorpg genre.

    EQ certainly contributed to the genre, but it was not popular considering that more than 2 million people tried the game and it never retained more than 500k at its peak.  World of Warcraft is the game that popularized and mainstreamed MMOs.  Before WoW, we were all deemed basement dwellers with poop socks and zero social lives.


    I'm a casual gamer that loves to play with lots of alts.  I don't see myself utilizing this feature primarily because I like to use my higher level characters to farm for gear or money to pass along to each new alt.  It would have to be a very large bonus to sacrifice an old character for the new for me to even consider it.
    Without EQ, there would be no WoW. Blizzard doesn't take risks. EQ established market viability.


  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,231
    EQ was most definitely the primary inspiration for WoW - and 500K players, sustained, was a huge success, back before the genre turned mainstream.

    I still thought it was a terrible grindfest, even back then, but there it is.
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,202
    edited June 2016
    EQ was/is popular enough to last 16 years and 21 expansions.  If a game is financially successful enough to make expansions it is a success.
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,102
    I agree pets in games in general are dumb and I don't like them at all unless it is a core combat mechanic of your class.  I would rather have whatever "benefit" that pet provides as an upgrade to my character earned by playing the game, not by having some extra pixels following me around, so yes I'm worried now too.

    Yes pets are a "modern" MMO gimmick and I didn't expect that fluffy crap to be in Pantheon.
  • Gyva02Gyva02 Member RarePosts: 482
    edited June 2016
    goboygo said:
    I agree pets in games in general are dumb and I don't like them at all unless it is a core combat mechanic of your class.  I would rather have whatever "benefit" that pet provides as an upgrade to my character earned by playing the game, not by having some extra pixels following me around, so yes I'm worried now too.

    Yes pets are a "modern" MMO gimmick and I didn't expect that fluffy crap to be in Pantheon.
    Totally agree with your post. Pantheon is supposed to be for the old EQ crowd and we don't want this kiddie crap fluff. It worries me as well... Fingers crossed greed doesn't set in and they start wanting to appeal to "everyone". 
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,102
    Gyva02 said:
    goboygo said:
    I agree pets in games in general are dumb and I don't like them at all unless it is a core combat mechanic of your class.  I would rather have whatever "benefit" that pet provides as an upgrade to my character earned by playing the game, not by having some extra pixels following me around, so yes I'm worried now too.

    Yes pets are a "modern" MMO gimmick and I didn't expect that fluffy crap to be in Pantheon.
    Totally agree with your post. Pantheon is supposed to be for the old EQ crowd and we don't want this kiddie crap fluff. It worries me as well... Fingers crossed greed doesn't set in and they start wanting to appeal to "everyone". 


    As another poster pointed out, okay yes there were "pets" in SWG, an old school game.  But that's SWG were talking about, a game that had a little bit of everything and shipped with more content than most players could work through in a lifetime because they had time and money to build it and there were a bunch of weird little creatures in that universe you could bake into the lore.

    This game is being made on a shoestring  budget, with developers practically donating their time.  So lets focus on the core game world, classes, combat, animations, skill sets and polish and leave the pets on the sidelines for now please.  Don't even waste your breath fantasizing about adding them at some point until everything is wrapped up with a bow and playable.

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,202
    edited June 2016
    There are plenty of fluff pets in EQ.  Or does that not count?   Are we only counting that 1 year of EQ that was the golden year?
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 6,149
    I don't see the pet issue as VR going off on a tangent. They are designing the classes. A number of classes feature pets. As long as they are working on that, it makes sense to have a plan for pets generally. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • RallydRallyd Member UncommonPosts: 95
    svann said:
    There are plenty of fluff pets in EQ.  Or does that not count?   Are we only counting that 1 year of EQ that was the golden year?
    Anything that happened after Velious was drastically reduced in quality, the longer it went the worse it got.  Pretty much the consensus of every EQ player I've ever met, even ones like myself who played well past PoP.
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,647
    edited June 2016
    Dullahan said:
    Dullahan said:
    When are gamers gonna learn that anything Brad is involved with is gonna fail, HARD.


    Flame away; I don't care. It's simply the truth.
    I guess you missed EverQuest; you know, the game that popularized the mmorpg genre.

    EQ certainly contributed to the genre, but it was not popular considering that more than 2 million people tried the game and it never retained more than 500k at its peak.  World of Warcraft is the game that popularized and mainstreamed MMOs.  Before WoW, we were all deemed basement dwellers with poop socks and zero social lives.


    I'm a casual gamer that loves to play with lots of alts.  I don't see myself utilizing this feature primarily because I like to use my higher level characters to farm for gear or money to pass along to each new alt.  It would have to be a very large bonus to sacrifice an old character for the new for me to even consider it.
    Without EQ, there would be no WoW. Blizzard doesn't take risks. EQ established market viability.

    That doesn't change the fact that the comment on which game popularized the genre was most definitely World of Warcraft.  Before that, it was a very niche gaming audience.  Doesn't matter that WoW drew its inspiration from EQ, what matters is that their version is what grew and popularized the genre with numbers of new gamers never before imagined possible.

    image
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 6,149
    edited June 2016
    That doesn't change the fact that the comment on which game popularized the genre was most definitely World of Warcraft.  Before that, it was a very niche gaming audience.  Doesn't matter that WoW drew its inspiration from EQ, what matters is that their version is what grew and popularized the genre with numbers of new gamers never before imagined possible.
    I'm not knocking either game. But there are a few other factors to consider.

    One is that computer technology and internet technology both advanced a great deal between 1999 and 2004, which brought a lot more potential mmorpg gamers into the market. 

    Two is that WoW's numbers include markets that EQ never entered, most significantly Asia.

    Three is that EQ entered the market cold, whereas Blizzard already had a huge following for WoW based on its prior success with other types of games.

    Four is that WoW already had EQ to look at, whereas EQ had fewer games that had gone before. Heck, WoW's raid encounters were designed in many respects by EQ raiders. 

    Five is that WoW had a spectacular development budget, with EQ having much less to work with.

    So in terms of popularity, I think if you are going to compare the two games you have to make allowances for those and other considerations.


    Post edited by Amathe on

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,021
    Amathe said:
    That doesn't change the fact that the comment on which game popularized the genre was most definitely World of Warcraft.  Before that, it was a very niche gaming audience.  Doesn't matter that WoW drew its inspiration from EQ, what matters is that their version is what grew and popularized the genre with numbers of new gamers never before imagined possible.
    I'm not knocking either game. But there are a few other factors to consider.

    One is that computer technology and internet technology both advanced a great deal between 1999 and 2004, which brought a lot more potential mmorpg gamers into the market. 

    Two is that WoW's numbers include markets that EQ never entered, most significantly Asia.

    Three is that EQ entered the market cold, whereas Blizzard already had a huge following for WoW based on its prior success with other types of games.

    Four is that WoW already had EQ to look at, whereas EQ had fewer games that had gone before. Heck, WoW's raid encounters were designed in many respects by EQ raiders. 

    Five is that WoW had a spectacular development budget, with EQ having much less to work with.

    So in terms of popularity, I think if you are going to compare the two games you have to make allowances for those and other considerations.


    Again, he is not talking about which mmo was first.  He said which one made mmos popular.  WoW definitely takes the cake for that one.  When I played DaoC and dabbled in EQ I didn't know a single person who played EQ.  Niche is Niche.  WoW broke that mold.  That is literally all he is saying.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 6,149
    Amathe said:
    Again, he is not talking about which mmo was first.  He said which one made mmos popular.  WoW definitely takes the cake for that one.  When I played DaoC and dabbled in EQ I didn't know a single person who played EQ.  Niche is Niche.  WoW broke that mold.  That is literally all he is saying.
    I understand his point and yours. I am just pointing out that EQ did a lot more to make mmorpgs popular than perhaps it gets credit for, and that once you take the factors I listed into account, EQ's playerbase was a lot more impressive than raw numbers alone would indicate. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • seeyouspacec0wboyseeyouspacec0wboy Member UncommonPosts: 699
    edited June 2016
    This is the first thing to really have me worried about this game. Not into it. Yes, many of those classes traditionally have pets of some sort, but they were almost never persistent. Not into it. 

    Originally posted by Scagweed22
    is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
    Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.

  • ArclanArclan Member UncommonPosts: 1,550
    They're getting off track, that much is evident in the recent blogs.  Leave extras like this for the first expansion or later patches.  They need to focus on making the CORE game as perfect as they possibly can.  Without that all the fluff in the world won't matter.

    Once they have perfected:
    Combat
    Progression
    Zone/Level Design
    Crafting
    Trade rules
    Animations

    Then and ONLY then should this kind of thing ever even be considered.
    It's one thing if there's this bar napkin idea that nobody is devoting time/energy to, but the potential indication is that they might be serious about it.

    Many posts flirt with this theme, but Kajdourden nailed it; previous games failed because they got off track and wasted intellectual effort on things not critical to the task at hand.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

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