PVE complains about PVP, and PVP complain about the PVE.
If the game was truly PvP, i wouldn't be playing it. I like the game setting/environment the quests are OK, trading, crafting, fishing, taming ect... and I keep to myself 99.9% of the time.
How does this hurt any pvp'ers feelings? Why do you care if i'm there, i'm not going to pvp and like i said if it was 100% pvp i would not be playing. I could care less if your on the server pvp'ing your brains out, i'm too busy doing my thing to care what you're doing.
BnS is a game you play if you want to PvP, it's all about skill, here it's not really pvp anyway its gear set vs gear set. BnS handles pvp brilliantly, your outfit flags you with certain factions and it works well. Don't want to pvp then don't wear a faction outfit, done.
If BDO had faction flagging outfit similarity i'd most likely jump into pvp occasionally, i don't hate pvp it's only something i like to taste every so often, if it's the main course then not for me.
But every mmo with pvp and pve it's the same story... PVE complains about PVP, and PVP complain about PVE.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
and if you want a hardcore pvp MMORPG experience I would not suggest BDO. Not to put BDO down but to pretend to be a bad ass pvp player by playing BDO is kinda funny.
pvp players, I suggest you take a look at Out of Reach. not the only option but one I came across that looks really challenging and dynamic for pvp players
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
They could have avoided so many headaches and tears if they had just made separate PvP and PvE servers. Trying to to keep everyone happy with one ruleset is simply not possible and if you move the needle one way or the other one side cries big salty tears.
Exactly! I sometimes wonder about dev's, this game is a PVE players dream come true, or as true as it can be in today's mmo *cough(themepark) market.
I truly wonder what they are thinking at times? Like here a PVE dream, topped with pvp mess, it's like why draw in pve players then? I'll speak for 99.9% of pve players out there, it's not like OMG after 5-10-20 years of mmo playing i never realized i like pvp (thanks guys) or opposite i never realized i like pve, it just doesn't work that way.
A pvp player is a pvp player, a pve player is a pve player. Sure people change but they aren't going to change because a game dictates it.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
They could have avoided so many headaches and tears if they had just made separate PvP and PvE servers. Trying to to keep everyone happy with one ruleset is simply not possible and if you move the needle one way or the other one side cries big salty tears.
Exactly! I sometimes wonder about dev's, this game is a PVE players dream come true, or as true as it can be in today's mmo *cough(themepark) market.
I truly wonder what they are thinking at times? Like here a PVE dream, topped with pvp mess, it's like why draw in pve players then? I'll speak for 99.9% of pve players out there, it's not like OMG after 5-10-20 years of mmo playing i never realized i like pvp (thanks guys) or opposite i never realized i like pve, it just doesn't work that way.
A pvp player is a pvp player, a pve player is a pve player. Sure people change but they aren't going to change because a game dictates it.
yes...
mixing pve and pvp into one server is never a good idea.
I do want to alter one thing you said though
'Exactly! I sometimes wonder about dev's, this game is a PVE players dream come true, or as true as it can be in today's (AAA) mmo *cough(themepark) market.'
There are some fantastically awesome game designs in the in MMO indie market (which is extreemly small) and the personal server based indie market (which is larger)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
What is hilarious to me is this was never some hardcore owpvp game. There are safe zones, all you lost was some xp, no full looting. The pvp is a joke due to the ridiculous gear>skill design. This was never a pvp game. 99.9% of this game is 100% PVE lol.
The irony is, the biggest complaint from the pk crowd after this patch? The PVE players could kill steal their PVE mobs from them. ROFL.
Black Desert started solely as a PvP game in Korean CBT1 PvP was on at level 15. If you read the early Korean interviews with Pearl Abyss - the vision was indeed an open world PvP game - again this was before the karma system.
Daum stepped in, invested into Pearl Abyss to help with final stages of development and publishing in Korea and the game took a 180 turn towards PvE.
Daum made sure we never saw Black Desert as a full PvP game that it was going to be.
Bottom line BD wad all about PvP and the early fanbase it built were all PvP players before Daum abandoned the original vision and gave a big middle finger to all the early supporters in Korea up to CBT2
I wish it would have stayed as a more pvp focused game. Level 15 is a good level to start owpvp even though I would have been fine with level 1.
For what it's worth even though I'm a PVE player, for you guys i wish it did stick to its pvp plan too.
I'd be perfectly fine with that, I'll play a different mmo which is pve and not burn down the internet because it was a pvp only game, omgawd, i wouldn't care. In fact later on i'd be Black Desert what? it's a pvp game, not interested, I'm playing something else.
Fortunately and "unfortunately" for all of us PVE and PVP peep's, they did what they did, but... honestly its left us all in a crappy spot with this game.
Kinda left us all hanging tbh.
Left pvp players wanting more pvp stuff (not sure what you want sry) but example more owpvp, ect.
Left pve players wanting for example more group content, dungeons, raids, ect.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
They could have avoided so many headaches and tears if they had just made separate PvP and PvE servers. Trying to to keep everyone happy with one ruleset is simply not possible and if you move the needle one way or the other one side cries big salty tears.
Exactly! I sometimes wonder about dev's, this game is a PVE players dream come true, or as true as it can be in today's mmo *cough(themepark) market.
I truly wonder what they are thinking at times? Like here a PVE dream, topped with pvp mess, it's like why draw in pve players then? I'll speak for 99.9% of pve players out there, it's not like OMG after 5-10-20 years of mmo playing i never realized i like pvp (thanks guys) or opposite i never realized i like pve, it just doesn't work that way.
A pvp player is a pvp player, a pve player is a pve player. Sure people change but they aren't going to change because a game dictates it.
yes...
mixing pve and pvp into one server is never a good idea.
I do want to alter one thing you said though
'Exactly! I sometimes wonder about dev's, this game is a PVE players dream come true, or as true as it can be in today's (AAA) mmo *cough(themepark) market.'
There are some fantastically awesome game designs in the in MMO indie market (which is extreemly small) and the personal server based indie market (which is larger)
Thanks for the correction!
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
You have a game that has good PVE and good PVP elements, and instead of making a choice, the thinking reaches the giddy heights of "more players = more profit, lets make our game for both PVE and PVP". Which equals compromise on both sides, not such a good game, and in fact less profit.
There are a lot of morons making decisions for these games. BDO is a prime example.
I still think the answer is simple; PvP and PvE servers. There are a LOT of players that want OWPVP. I say let them have it, and lower the penalties. OWPVP should mean OWPVP. I don't think they should lose stuff, but I haven't played on an OWPVP server consistently since Age of Conan, so my opinion on this is probably not the majority.
Then make PvE servers. Make the Black Desert a PVP zone with no penalties. The rest of the BDO universe on those servers would be strictly PvE unless you voluntarily flagged for PvP. All they would need to do is design some dungeons and raids to keep the peeps on those servers happy, maybe 3 dungeons and two raids, all on a per week timer.
Everyone is now happy! They won't get me to play until they lower the pricing on their predatory cash shop, but when they do, I would jump in. And I would play on both server types. I'm sure the PvE characters would level faster, but I like open world PvP, it is quite thrilling! I just need to be in the mood.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
I still think the answer is simple; PvP and PvE servers. There are a LOT of players that want OWPVP. I say let them have it, and lower the penalties. OWPVP should mean OWPVP. I don't think they should lose stuff, but I haven't played on an OWPVP server consistently since Age of Conan, so my opinion on this is probably not the majority.
Then make PvE servers. Make the Black Desert a PVP zone with no penalties. The rest of the BDO universe on those servers would be strictly PvE unless you voluntarily flagged for PvP. All they would need to do is design some dungeons and raids to keep the peeps on those servers happy, maybe 3 dungeons and two raids, all on a per week timer.
Everyone is now happy! They won't get me to play until they lower the pricing on their predatory cash shop, but when they do, I would jump in. And I would play on both server types. I'm sure the PvE characters would level faster, but I like open world PvP, it is quite thrilling! I just need to be in the mood.
This is indeed the perfect solution ... except it doesn't go over well with OWPvPers. And they will let you know that, without hesitation, whenever the above is suggested in any PvE vs PvP thread discussion. Why? Because whereas an overwhelming amount of players is not necessary for PvE game play, it is absolutely necessary for PvP game play. They need the PvE players to keep their server populated. Without the PvE player, PvP servers incrementally decrease in population until those servers are dead.
This is a known dynamic in OWPvP due to PvPers eating their young phenomenon until all you have left is the top echelon, and even then they will continue to eat each other away until there is no one left but a few. This is why developers always try to include PvE with PvP. To keep PvP servers alive. Only it's not working, and it will never work. But they will continue trying because it is much cheaper to develop a game around PvP, since the content is the players themselves, than it is to develop a game around content, which is much more expensive and time consuming to develop.
I still think the answer is simple; PvP and PvE servers. There are a LOT of players that want OWPVP. I say let them have it, and lower the penalties. OWPVP should mean OWPVP. I don't think they should lose stuff, but I haven't played on an OWPVP server consistently since Age of Conan, so my opinion on this is probably not the majority.
Then make PvE servers. Make the Black Desert a PVP zone with no penalties. The rest of the BDO universe on those servers would be strictly PvE unless you voluntarily flagged for PvP. All they would need to do is design some dungeons and raids to keep the peeps on those servers happy, maybe 3 dungeons and two raids, all on a per week timer.
Everyone is now happy! They won't get me to play until they lower the pricing on their predatory cash shop, but when they do, I would jump in. And I would play on both server types. I'm sure the PvE characters would level faster, but I like open world PvP, it is quite thrilling! I just need to be in the mood.
This is indeed the perfect solution ... except it doesn't go over well with OWPvPers. And they will let you know that, without hesitation, whenever the above is suggested in any PvE vs PvP thread discussion. Why? Because whereas an overwhelming amount of players is not necessary for PvE game play, it is absolutely necessary for PvP game play. They need the PvE players to keep their server populated. Without the PvE player, PvP servers incrementally decrease in population until those servers are dead.
This is a known dynamic in OWPvP due to PvPers eating their young phenomenon until all you have left is the top echelon, and even then they will continue to eat each other away until there is no one left but a few. This is why developers always try to include PvE with PvP. To keep PvP servers alive. Only it's not working, and it will never work. But they will continue trying because it is much cheaper to develop a game around PvP, since the content is the players themselves, than it is to develop a game around content, which is much more expensive and time consuming to develop.
There are games with OWPVP that work just fine. A friend of mine played UO, and had a blast with it, for 12 years. The only thing that got him to quit was that he got hacked, and he had a lot of dollar value stuff taken. The first time they threw him a bone and even though it was not what his stuff was worth, he kept playing. after being hacked again, he complained, When nothing was done about it (he had the sense that he was targeted) he quit playing. So his reason for quitting had nothing to do with OWPVP, or anything actually game related.
Maybe people should learn from that game. Well, except being so lax about hacking...
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
Is anyone really surprised that yet another "open-world" PvP game is doing poorly in the West? Been playing these games since their inception (well, mostly, lol) and have yet to see even ONE so-called "PvP" game succeed long-term in this hemisphere. Anyone throwing around the term "carebear" is generally a ganker who has run out of lowbies to pester, and so he/she takes to these forums to cry. And that right there is (generally) the reason why these games have failed here on these shores: firstly because they offer very little content-wise, and second, because the Western community simply cannot handle policing itself and seems to be unable to find any sort of restraint. Look, these games are very popular in the East, but their culture is much more communal and cooperative than hours, and lowbie-gankers are typically shunned and hunted. (Not always, but you get my drift.) Here, what we wind up with is a bunch of e-peen stroking "leet PvPers" who aren't looking for a challenge, they are looking for cannon fodder: players they can kill with little or no effort, over and over and over. Why else do you think we have never seen an OWPvP game with level restrictions? Hey look, if you like this sort of PvP that's great, and more power to you. But to wonder why this game isn't the "next big thing!" like it was hyped to death to be is funny to me. It's simple: just look at the way people treat each other, and all over some pixelated farming area.
"We are all as God made us, and many of us much worse." - Don Quixote
I still think the answer is simple; PvP and PvE servers. There are a LOT of players that want OWPVP. I say let them have it, and lower the penalties. OWPVP should mean OWPVP. I don't think they should lose stuff, but I haven't played on an OWPVP server consistently since Age of Conan, so my opinion on this is probably not the majority.
Then make PvE servers. Make the Black Desert a PVP zone with no penalties. The rest of the BDO universe on those servers would be strictly PvE unless you voluntarily flagged for PvP. All they would need to do is design some dungeons and raids to keep the peeps on those servers happy, maybe 3 dungeons and two raids, all on a per week timer.
Everyone is now happy! They won't get me to play until they lower the pricing on their predatory cash shop, but when they do, I would jump in. And I would play on both server types. I'm sure the PvE characters would level faster, but I like open world PvP, it is quite thrilling! I just need to be in the mood.
This is indeed the perfect solution ... except it doesn't go over well with OWPvPers. And they will let you know that, without hesitation, whenever the above is suggested in any PvE vs PvP thread discussion. Why? Because whereas an overwhelming amount of players is not necessary for PvE game play, it is absolutely necessary for PvP game play. They need the PvE players to keep their server populated. Without the PvE player, PvP servers incrementally decrease in population until those servers are dead.
This is a known dynamic in OWPvP due to PvPers eating their young phenomenon until all you have left is the top echelon, and even then they will continue to eat each other away until there is no one left but a few. This is why developers always try to include PvE with PvP. To keep PvP servers alive. Only it's not working, and it will never work. But they will continue trying because it is much cheaper to develop a game around PvP, since the content is the players themselves, than it is to develop a game around content, which is much more expensive and time consuming to develop.
There are games with OWPVP that work just fine. A friend of mine played UO, and had a blast with it, for 12 years. The only thing that got him to quit was that he got hacked, and he had a lot of dollar value stuff taken. The first time they threw him a bone and even though it was not what his stuff was worth, he kept playing. after being hacked again, he complained, When nothing was done about it (he had the sense that he was targeted) he quit playing. So his reason for quitting had nothing to do with OWPVP, or anything actually game related.
Maybe people should learn from that game. Well, except being so lax about hacking...
UO was before my time, but isn't this the game that required the implementation of a PvE server (Trammel) to save it from dying?
'Care bear' as the means to complain about a game is an old, tired, and worn out cliche. Make the points you wish about why you don't like the game without using worn out terms geared towards getting a reaction.
I still think the answer is simple; PvP and PvE servers. There are a LOT of players that want OWPVP. I say let them have it, and lower the penalties. OWPVP should mean OWPVP. I don't think they should lose stuff, but I haven't played on an OWPVP server consistently since Age of Conan, so my opinion on this is probably not the majority.
Then make PvE servers. Make the Black Desert a PVP zone with no penalties. The rest of the BDO universe on those servers would be strictly PvE unless you voluntarily flagged for PvP. All they would need to do is design some dungeons and raids to keep the peeps on those servers happy, maybe 3 dungeons and two raids, all on a per week timer.
Everyone is now happy! They won't get me to play until they lower the pricing on their predatory cash shop, but when they do, I would jump in. And I would play on both server types. I'm sure the PvE characters would level faster, but I like open world PvP, it is quite thrilling! I just need to be in the mood.
This is indeed the perfect solution ... except it doesn't go over well with OWPvPers. And they will let you know that, without hesitation, whenever the above is suggested in any PvE vs PvP thread discussion. Why? Because whereas an overwhelming amount of players is not necessary for PvE game play, it is absolutely necessary for PvP game play. They need the PvE players to keep their server populated. Without the PvE player, PvP servers incrementally decrease in population until those servers are dead.
This is a known dynamic in OWPvP due to PvPers eating their young phenomenon until all you have left is the top echelon, and even then they will continue to eat each other away until there is no one left but a few. This is why developers always try to include PvE with PvP. To keep PvP servers alive. Only it's not working, and it will never work. But they will continue trying because it is much cheaper to develop a game around PvP, since the content is the players themselves, than it is to develop a game around content, which is much more expensive and time consuming to develop.
There are games with OWPVP that work just fine. A friend of mine played UO, and had a blast with it, for 12 years. The only thing that got him to quit was that he got hacked, and he had a lot of dollar value stuff taken. The first time they threw him a bone and even though it was not what his stuff was worth, he kept playing. after being hacked again, he complained, When nothing was done about it (he had the sense that he was targeted) he quit playing. So his reason for quitting had nothing to do with OWPVP, or anything actually game related.
Maybe people should learn from that game. Well, except being so lax about hacking...
UO was before my time, but isn't this the game that required the implementation of a PvE server (Trammel) to save it from dying?
Indeed it is. I was there.
UO existed in a time with very little alternative, and even then it had to evolve, lessons were learned from it, you can see that in most, if not all MMO's today. MMO's often cater to the PVE orientated player, because they represent over 80% of the players in MMO's, that doesn't however, mean that 20% of the remaining are strictly PVP only, its more of a mix. BDO tries to cater to both types of players. I personally think it does a pretty good job of providing content for PVE players, though perhaps not to the hardcore Raiders, but they are such a small subset of PVE players that they can be easily overlooked as a rounding statistic, as for actual dungeons, there are areas that easily fall into that category, its great that they aren't instanced, in that sense they remind me much of EQ1 back in the day, except without all the zoning. PVP players will get their content, in the form of seiges and other contested areas in the game where Guilds can 'acquire' Nodes etc. I think the most complaints are really from the lone PVP'ers who aren't really catered to in this game, nor do i think they should be, i think focusing on Guild PVP is the best way forward, and for PVP'ers its probably a lot more fun too, lone PVP'ers are eventually going to have to choose between learning social skills and 'joining in' or perhaps move on to another game, i would encourage them to 'join in' group PVP is far more fun and they could learn some valuable skills in the process.
Totally agree with @beebop500 that Eastern players seem to be able to police and moderate their activity and not kill off their population. Western players just cannot police themselves well and exaggerate with their ganking and drive away its own population in the end. They take sadistic pleasure too in doing it and when the game dies they are left wondering what happened and blame the PvE players for the consequences of their own excesses.
I still think the answer is simple; PvP and PvE servers. There are a LOT of players that want OWPVP. I say let them have it, and lower the penalties. OWPVP should mean OWPVP. I don't think they should lose stuff, but I haven't played on an OWPVP server consistently since Age of Conan, so my opinion on this is probably not the majority.
Then make PvE servers. Make the Black Desert a PVP zone with no penalties. The rest of the BDO universe on those servers would be strictly PvE unless you voluntarily flagged for PvP. All they would need to do is design some dungeons and raids to keep the peeps on those servers happy, maybe 3 dungeons and two raids, all on a per week timer.
Everyone is now happy! They won't get me to play until they lower the pricing on their predatory cash shop, but when they do, I would jump in. And I would play on both server types. I'm sure the PvE characters would level faster, but I like open world PvP, it is quite thrilling! I just need to be in the mood.
This is indeed the perfect solution ... except it doesn't go over well with OWPvPers. And they will let you know that, without hesitation, whenever the above is suggested in any PvE vs PvP thread discussion. Why? Because whereas an overwhelming amount of players is not necessary for PvE game play, it is absolutely necessary for PvP game play. They need the PvE players to keep their server populated. Without the PvE player, PvP servers incrementally decrease in population until those servers are dead.
This is a known dynamic in OWPvP due to PvPers eating their young phenomenon until all you have left is the top echelon, and even then they will continue to eat each other away until there is no one left but a few. This is why developers always try to include PvE with PvP. To keep PvP servers alive. Only it's not working, and it will never work. But they will continue trying because it is much cheaper to develop a game around PvP, since the content is the players themselves, than it is to develop a game around content, which is much more expensive and time consuming to develop.
There are games with OWPVP that work just fine. A friend of mine played UO, and had a blast with it, for 12 years. The only thing that got him to quit was that he got hacked, and he had a lot of dollar value stuff taken. The first time they threw him a bone and even though it was not what his stuff was worth, he kept playing. after being hacked again, he complained, When nothing was done about it (he had the sense that he was targeted) he quit playing. So his reason for quitting had nothing to do with OWPVP, or anything actually game related.
Maybe people should learn from that game. Well, except being so lax about hacking...
UO was before my time, but isn't this the game that required the implementation of a PvE server (Trammel) to save it from dying?
Indeed it is. I was there.
UO existed in a time with very little alternative, and even then it had to evolve, lessons were learned from it, you can see that in most, if not all MMO's today. MMO's often cater to the PVE orientated player, because they represent over 80% of the players in MMO's, that doesn't however, mean that 20% of the remaining are strictly PVP only, its more of a mix. BDO tries to cater to both types of players. I personally think it does a pretty good job of providing content for PVE players, though perhaps not to the hardcore Raiders, but they are such a small subset of PVE players that they can be easily overlooked as a rounding statistic, as for actual dungeons, there are areas that easily fall into that category, its great that they aren't instanced, in that sense they remind me much of EQ1 back in the day, except without all the zoning. PVP players will get their content, in the form of seiges and other contested areas in the game where Guilds can 'acquire' Nodes etc. I think the most complaints are really from the lone PVP'ers who aren't really catered to in this game, nor do i think they should be, i think focusing on Guild PVP is the best way forward, and for PVP'ers its probably a lot more fun too, lone PVP'ers are eventually going to have to choose between learning social skills and 'joining in' or perhaps move on to another game, i would encourage them to 'join in' group PVP is far more fun and they could learn some valuable skills in the process.
Well the highest % of PvE players are your combat PvE players - the crafters are a much smaller %.
BDO does well to hold a comeat PvE player from 1-50
The grind kicks in at 50+ and gets exponentially worse each level. The vast majority of players who leave are in 50-55 bracket, because that's when PvE combat players hit the wall.
55+ valencia PvE combat content cannot be done without good gear which totally screws the bulk of your casual PvE players.
That is the biggest problem for Daum as far as PvE combat players - once they hit 50, the outlook is grim
Unfortunately i think you do have a a very valid point there, after reaching 51, and at the moment i am 71% towards 52, but i really can't be bothered to grind mobs for more combat XP, so i've virtually given up on levelling any further and am just doing other things now, maybe i'll come back to more combat orientated PVE things later, but for the moment, i'd really rather not. If that was the only form of PVE content in the game, i would probably have walked away from the game long ago, fortunately it isn't, and so despite this, i am having fun in the game, and still playing it far more than i really should.
Is anyone really surprised that yet another "open-world" PvP game is doing poorly in the West? Been playing these games since their inception (well, mostly, lol) and have yet to see even ONE so-called "PvP" game succeed long-term in this hemisphere. Anyone throwing around the term "carebear" is generally a ganker who has run out of lowbies to pester, and so he/she takes to these forums to cry. And that right there is (generally) the reason why these games have failed here on these shores: firstly because they offer very little content-wise, and second, because the Western community simply cannot handle policing itself and seems to be unable to find any sort of restraint. Look, these games are very popular in the East, but their culture is much more communal and cooperative than hours, and lowbie-gankers are typically shunned and hunted. (Not always, but you get my drift.) Here, what we wind up with is a bunch of e-peen stroking "leet PvPers" who aren't looking for a challenge, they are looking for cannon fodder: players they can kill with little or no effort, over and over and over. Why else do you think we have never seen an OWPvP game with level restrictions? Hey look, if you like this sort of PvP that's great, and more power to you. But to wonder why this game isn't the "next big thing!" like it was hyped to death to be is funny to me. It's simple: just look at the way people treat each other, and all over some pixelated farming area.
Good post. I still play Lineage I through a VPN with my brother in Songpa and the community is far more civilized in terms of how we handle PvP. The population is not ganking or camping. It is that way in Bless as well. There are 2 guilds on the server I am playing on that are marked for bounty. Other guilds hunt them down and kill them because they are the rare exception of players that gank other players just trying to play the game. Since this past weekend only the one guild is really left bothering other players. PvP and PvE can coexist but it seems to struggle with it in the West, with the western communities. Again, great post I agree 100%
I agree with both of you.
In the West you either have to have separate servers or, better yet, do it like DAoC, Warhammer Online, GW2 and ESO did it with segregated PVE and PVP in separate zones... You know? Those games that get dissed in forums by the "hardcore" for not being OWPVP.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Is anyone really surprised that yet another "open-world" PvP game is doing poorly in the West? Been playing these games since their inception (well, mostly, lol) and have yet to see even ONE so-called "PvP" game succeed long-term in this hemisphere. Anyone throwing around the term "carebear" is generally a ganker who has run out of lowbies to pester, and so he/she takes to these forums to cry. And that right there is (generally) the reason why these games have failed here on these shores: firstly because they offer very little content-wise, and second, because the Western community simply cannot handle policing itself and seems to be unable to find any sort of restraint. Look, these games are very popular in the East, but their culture is much more communal and cooperative than hours, and lowbie-gankers are typically shunned and hunted. (Not always, but you get my drift.) Here, what we wind up with is a bunch of e-peen stroking "leet PvPers" who aren't looking for a challenge, they are looking for cannon fodder: players they can kill with little or no effort, over and over and over. Why else do you think we have never seen an OWPvP game with level restrictions? Hey look, if you like this sort of PvP that's great, and more power to you. But to wonder why this game isn't the "next big thing!" like it was hyped to death to be is funny to me. It's simple: just look at the way people treat each other, and all over some pixelated farming area.
Good post. I still play Lineage I through a VPN with my brother in Songpa and the community is far more civilized in terms of how we handle PvP. The population is not ganking or camping. It is that way in Bless as well. There are 2 guilds on the server I am playing on that are marked for bounty. Other guilds hunt them down and kill them because they are the rare exception of players that gank other players just trying to play the game. Since this past weekend only the one guild is really left bothering other players. PvP and PvE can coexist but it seems to struggle with it in the West, with the western communities. Again, great post I agree 100%
I agree with both of you.
In the West you either have to have separate servers or, better yet, do it like DAoC, Warhammer Online, GW2 and ESO did it with segregated PVE and PVP in separate zones... You know? Those games that get dissed in forums by the "hardcore" for not being OWPVP.
I suspect it's a matter of upbringing. We raise spoiled little brats, that feel overly entitled and absolutely refuse to accept the consequences of their actions. The Western gaming community is toxic as hell. Each time a developer gives players the freedom they're always clamoring for, it winds up biting the developers in the ass.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
That's what happened with all the PvE folks in my guild they hit 50 some go up to 52 and the fatigue wins - they start logging in less and less and eventually just stop playing entirely.
Boredom is why players leave every MMO in the end.
Valencia - is for 55+ players, this will be the final nail in the coffin for those who are sitting below 53 now, just no way to do any of that content so what's the point?
I imagine that if they are wise, they'll either;
A ) Tweak the XP gain for their intended target. B ) Nerf the Valencia content and make it easier to do at a lower level.
I'd be lying if I said the combination of grind + RNG didn't cause its fatalities in my own guild. It seems to be happening across the board. That, and a lot of people are taking it easy now while waiting for Valencia. (The main reason a lot of 55+ people are taking a break atm)
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
That's what happened with all the PvE folks in my guild they hit 50 some go up to 52 and the fatigue wins - they start logging in less and less and eventually just stop playing entirely.
Boredom is why players leave every MMO in the end.
Valencia - is for 55+ players, this will be the final nail in the coffin for those who are sitting below 53 now, just no way to do any of that content so what's the point?
I imagine that if they are wise, they'll either;
A ) Tweak the XP gain for their intended target. B ) Nerf the Valencia content and make it easier to do at a lower level.
I'd be lying if I said the combination of grind + RNG didn't cause its fatalities in my own guild. It seems to be happening across the board. That, and a lot of people are taking it easy now while waiting for Valencia. (The main reason a lot of 55+ people are taking a break atm)
What they should do is sell a level 55 boost in the cash shop.
Yes the P2W out cries would be epic on forums, but it would be the best move for Daum to allow players with money and lack of time to skip the tedium of 50-55 grind.
Level 55 boost is the way to go
I think the biggest problem with such a thing, would be you wouldn't get the benefit of the combat XP so you would find that your skills were lacking for that level, if they boosted it through combat xp gain so that you did get the gains from the level gain, then that would work, but, a lot of people would hate on it for just that reason. Sadly, i probably would buy one if i felt i had to be level 55 to get anywhere.
Comments
If the game was truly PvP, i wouldn't be playing it. I like the game setting/environment the quests are OK, trading, crafting, fishing, taming ect... and I keep to myself 99.9% of the time.
How does this hurt any pvp'ers feelings? Why do you care if i'm there, i'm not going to pvp and like i said if it was 100% pvp i would not be playing. I could care less if your on the server pvp'ing your brains out, i'm too busy doing my thing to care what you're doing.
BnS is a game you play if you want to PvP, it's all about skill, here it's not really pvp anyway its gear set vs gear set. BnS handles pvp brilliantly, your outfit flags you with certain factions and it works well. Don't want to pvp then don't wear a faction outfit, done.
If BDO had faction flagging outfit similarity i'd most likely jump into pvp occasionally, i don't hate pvp it's only something i like to taste every so often, if it's the main course then not for me.
But every mmo with pvp and pve it's the same story... PVE complains about PVP, and PVP complain about PVE.
pvp players, I suggest you take a look at Out of Reach. not the only option but one I came across that looks really challenging and dynamic for pvp players
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I truly wonder what they are thinking at times? Like here a PVE dream, topped with pvp mess, it's like why draw in pve players then? I'll speak for 99.9% of pve players out there, it's not like OMG after 5-10-20 years of mmo playing i never realized i like pvp (thanks guys) or opposite i never realized i like pve, it just doesn't work that way.
A pvp player is a pvp player, a pve player is a pve player. Sure people change but they aren't going to change because a game dictates it.
mixing pve and pvp into one server is never a good idea.
I do want to alter one thing you said though
'Exactly! I sometimes wonder about dev's, this game is a PVE players dream come true, or as true as it can be in today's (AAA) mmo *cough(themepark) market.'
There are some fantastically awesome game designs in the in MMO indie market (which is extreemly small) and the personal server based indie market (which is larger)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I'd be perfectly fine with that, I'll play a different mmo which is pve and not burn down the internet because it was a pvp only game, omgawd, i wouldn't care. In fact later on i'd be Black Desert what? it's a pvp game, not interested, I'm playing something else.
Fortunately and "unfortunately" for all of us PVE and PVP peep's, they did what they did, but... honestly its left us all in a crappy spot with this game.
Kinda left us all hanging tbh.
Left pvp players wanting more pvp stuff (not sure what you want sry) but example more owpvp, ect.
Left pve players wanting for example more group content, dungeons, raids, ect.
that is my baseline standard now
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
You have a game that has good PVE and good PVP elements, and instead of making a choice, the thinking reaches the giddy heights of "more players = more profit, lets make our game for both PVE and PVP". Which equals compromise on both sides, not such a good game, and in fact less profit.
There are a lot of morons making decisions for these games. BDO is a prime example.
Then make PvE servers. Make the Black Desert a PVP zone with no penalties. The rest of the BDO universe on those servers would be strictly PvE unless you voluntarily flagged for PvP. All they would need to do is design some dungeons and raids to keep the peeps on those servers happy, maybe 3 dungeons and two raids, all on a per week timer.
Everyone is now happy! They won't get me to play until they lower the pricing on their predatory cash shop, but when they do, I would jump in. And I would play on both server types. I'm sure the PvE characters would level faster, but I like open world PvP, it is quite thrilling! I just need to be in the mood.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
This is indeed the perfect solution ... except it doesn't go over well with OWPvPers. And they will let you know that, without hesitation, whenever the above is suggested in any PvE vs PvP thread discussion. Why? Because whereas an overwhelming amount of players is not necessary for PvE game play, it is absolutely necessary for PvP game play. They need the PvE players to keep their server populated. Without the PvE player, PvP servers incrementally decrease in population until those servers are dead.
This is a known dynamic in OWPvP due to PvPers eating their young phenomenon until all you have left is the top echelon, and even then they will continue to eat each other away until there is no one left but a few. This is why developers always try to include PvE with PvP. To keep PvP servers alive. Only it's not working, and it will never work. But they will continue trying because it is much cheaper to develop a game around PvP, since the content is the players themselves, than it is to develop a game around content, which is much more expensive and time consuming to develop.
Maybe people should learn from that game. Well, except being so lax about hacking...
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
Anyone throwing around the term "carebear" is generally a ganker who has run out of lowbies to pester, and so he/she takes to these forums to cry.
And that right there is (generally) the reason why these games have failed here on these shores: firstly because they offer very little content-wise, and second, because the Western community simply cannot handle policing itself and seems to be unable to find any sort of restraint. Look, these games are very popular in the East, but their culture is much more communal and cooperative than hours, and lowbie-gankers are typically shunned and hunted. (Not always, but you get my drift.)
Here, what we wind up with is a bunch of e-peen stroking "leet PvPers" who aren't looking for a challenge, they are looking for cannon fodder: players they can kill with little or no effort, over and over and over. Why else do you think we have never seen an OWPvP game with level restrictions?
Hey look, if you like this sort of PvP that's great, and more power to you. But to wonder why this game isn't the "next big thing!" like it was hyped to death to be is funny to me. It's simple: just look at the way people treat each other, and all over some pixelated farming area.
I self identify as a monkey.
MMO's often cater to the PVE orientated player, because they represent over 80% of the players in MMO's, that doesn't however, mean that 20% of the remaining are strictly PVP only, its more of a mix.
BDO tries to cater to both types of players.
I personally think it does a pretty good job of providing content for PVE players, though perhaps not to the hardcore Raiders, but they are such a small subset of PVE players that they can be easily overlooked as a rounding statistic, as for actual dungeons, there are areas that easily fall into that category, its great that they aren't instanced, in that sense they remind me much of EQ1 back in the day, except without all the zoning.
PVP players will get their content, in the form of seiges and other contested areas in the game where Guilds can 'acquire' Nodes etc.
I think the most complaints are really from the lone PVP'ers who aren't really catered to in this game, nor do i think they should be, i think focusing on Guild PVP is the best way forward, and for PVP'ers its probably a lot more fun too, lone PVP'ers are eventually going to have to choose between learning social skills and 'joining in' or perhaps move on to another game, i would encourage them to 'join in' group PVP is far more fun and they could learn some valuable skills in the process.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
If that was the only form of PVE content in the game, i would probably have walked away from the game long ago, fortunately it isn't, and so despite this, i am having fun in the game, and still playing it far more than i really should.
In the West you either have to have separate servers or, better yet, do it like DAoC, Warhammer Online, GW2 and ESO did it with segregated PVE and PVP in separate zones... You know? Those games that get dissed in forums by the "hardcore" for not being OWPVP.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
A ) Tweak the XP gain for their intended target.
B ) Nerf the Valencia content and make it easier to do at a lower level.
I'd be lying if I said the combination of grind + RNG didn't cause its fatalities in my own guild. It seems to be happening across the board. That, and a lot of people are taking it easy now while waiting for Valencia. (The main reason a lot of 55+ people are taking a break atm)
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/