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Is Exploiting Rampant?

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  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    blutm8 said:
    ...

    so again i think the only real possibility to stop cheaters, hackers and exploiters is a registration with personal id
    If that ever became a thing in the NA/EU market, selling fake "Personal ID's" for gamers would be the biggest business on the internet, lol
  • stickman1979stickman1979 Member UncommonPosts: 59
    Yes it is, at least on NA.

    Oh well, if you can't beat them, join them.

    Two dirt-bags I reported weeks ago, with video, are still in game. I do think they were banned at one point in time since I haven't seen them for a few days, then they appeared again. If there is no punishment other than being banned for a few days, why not?

    Daum is obviously incompetent and understaffed, unable to catch the hackers/botters themselves, and rely on us with video proof to do it for them.


  • BeowulfsamBeowulfsam Member UncommonPosts: 145
    Daum is a very small company compared to the scope of their game too. I can honestly see how they are unable to get a handle on bots, they need more staff. Don't understand it when they've made a killing off of the game.
    Umm, no they aren't that small. Pearl Abyss as a dev might be small (idk if they are, cba to check), but Daum as a company isn't. Actually, Daum doesn't even exist anymore as a company, they merged with Kakao to Kakao Daum and then they ditched the Daum name. So now it's just Kakao again. Anyway, their market cap is 5,2 billion EUR, which I don't consider small as a whole. Sure, gaming is only a part of it, but still... Daum Games Europe is just a Kakao subsidiary, prolly made in Netherlands just for tax breaks. 

    Anyway. Even if they'd reinvest idk...20% of the money they recieved from West release into expanding the game/staf, that would be a lot of people hired. But hey, they can't even buy proper servers in a reasonable time frame, so as far as I'm concerned, they are total derps. Not to mention WTF changes they're doing in West release, just a hodge podge of different versions. 

    Sadly, they already made so much money, even if game went bust tomorrow they'd still be well ahead, no lessons learned. 
  • toolaktoolak Member UncommonPosts: 154
    What do you expect. All the Calcs are done client side. In Korea where the game was made you have to enter your personal info to play the game so if they cheat they know who you are. Over here you can cheat all you want and at worst you have to rebuy the game.
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,346


    Exploiting and hacking are two different things. I personally do neither, but I do think they should be punished differently, but both severely. Long term bans for exploiting and perma-bans for hacking.



    To hack, you have to write or install a program to manipulate the game. Exploiting is done just using flawed in-game mechanics, so I don't know if permanent bans are warranted. Sentences should be given based on severity imo (but again, they should be at least like a month for using a known exploit).



    "When you have companies such as Blizzard, ArenaNet or Epic providing instant, lifetime bans for exploiting - while often publicly shaming - it seems bizarre that Daum haven’t followed suit."



    I do think Daum is not setting enough of a precident for harsh punishment. People should be afraid to hack or exploit, and some are not currently (although I wouldn't feel safe doing it since they can change their softer stance anytime they wish and your account would be at risk).



    But compared to say NcSoft who says virtually nothing and does the same, Daum is at least being fairly vocal and have started a player-run initiative to find hackers.



    Anyway, I haven't seen an exploiter or hacker, but I'm not high level yet so that may change.



    Regardless, I'll play the game like I play any game- legit. If it turns out I can't compete at endgame because of hackers/exploiters, I'll simply quit at that point. It certainly wouldn't be worth it to become a hacker/exploiter myself as that would ruin any sense of accomplishment I get from the game.



    To me exploiting and hacking are the same. They do the same thing, give a distinct advantage to the person doing it.


  • ErdaErda Member UncommonPosts: 211
    I'm primarily a life skiller in BDO so haven't noticed much. I do hear about the exploits though from my guild mates who are very upset. It somewhat bothers me when I'm trying to play the game honestly sinking many hours in the game scratching out a living and others are gaming the system to gain a huge advantage. This was one thing that really bothered me about ArcheAge and I personally witnessed some of this stuff in action. I was appalled at one of my guild mates who exploited things on a fairly regular basis, made millions, bragged about it, got caught and yet was back playing within a week. It is discouraging to say the least.

    Personally I don't have much hope for BDO and my longevity in the game. Just reading the forums is like being dropped into the Lord of the Flies. Complete unmoderated mess. Can't imagine their energy in dealing with truly game breaking issues like hacking/exploiting.

    I'll still drop in to play on occasion when I grow weary of ESO but right now, not really inclined.

  • fodell54fodell54 Member RarePosts: 859




    DMKano said:









    DMKano said:



    The answer is it rampant or not will highly depend on the player's exposure to it which is based on each players style of play.







    Solo players under level 50 who mostly craft/level horses/fish - not rampant at all - because you'll likely never see a single hacker. This entire hacking thing might seem like a complete fantasy to player like this.







    50+ players hunting in highly contested areas - you've probably been near hackers and not even realized - you may have seen people blatantly hacking if hunting Ogres/Susans or World Bosses. Chances of seeing hackers are moderate.







    55+ PvP players - you probably know people who are hacking, might even have some in your guild - might even be hacking yourself - this is where the Rampant category fits, as you're likely to see it every night. Pirate island people call Hacker's island lol - because it's that bad







    But how rampant is it really as far as OVERALL playerbase?







    If you go to popular forums where MMO hacks are sold and used - you'll notice that there are thousands of users in BDO forums, and since only a small % post in forums - the real number is significantly higher (also there are several flavors of the hack - so a single forum doesn't even encompass it all - you'd have to go to multiple forums).







    This is my guess - out of 100K active concurrent nightly users in BDO (lets assume this number didn't go down in the last couple of months) - what % are running hacks?







    I'd say anywhere from 5% (assuming 5K active hack forum posters are all there is) - to 25% - assuming that there are many more who us the exploit but never post in hack forums.







    My personal gut feeling is that probably a 10% are hacking - it's widespread - because guilds are sharing the hack with their members now so it keeps growing.











    Why did it get this bad - well the hack itself is super easy to do - and the godmode that it provides is just crazy good - HP that doesn't go down and being able to spam skills at will without cooldown - gravy train.







    Add Daum's very poor response so far (they are severely understaffed to tackle this problem with GMs) which forced them to basically ask the players to do the work for them (hacker hunting program) - it's not good.







    As long as Daum doesn't address this in code - it's going to get worse. I know they delayed Valencia to work on the hacking issue - I hope they can pull it off
















    While you make good points. I find it funny when very similar hacking (probably still to this day) was happening in AA and all I ever saw was you defending the game and publisher. Yet, with BDO you seem to be on a crusade. Not sure why that is. Maybe you are finding people in your guild or gaming circles leaving trion to go to BDO. Maybe you had a bad experience while in BDO. No one will really know. Either way, its hard to take what you're saying as genuine and not just an axe to grind with BDO.





    Even if I had an axe to grind with BDO, you could still focus on and debate the points I am making instead of focusing on whatever personal bias.

    When people have an axe to grind the points they bring up don't hold up to scrutiny. 

    The points can be scrutinized on their own, pretend that it was written by an anonymous poster and see if they hold any water.

    If the message is full of false information then that will reveal the messengers malicious intent.












    Funny, I don't recall you being so objective with AA and it's horde of problems. So, I'll just stick with you have an axe to grind. BTW, if it was another poster. I would of came to the same conclusion based off that posters (you) post history.



    It doesn't even seem like you read his post at all. I don't even know why you'd call it out as him "having an axe to grind" with BDO when the points he made were valid and he just wants the game to be bot free. He wants what's best for the game... yet he obviously is just hating on BDO. Sorry, that train of thought is not logical at all.
    The points people pointed about AA were no less valid then points Kano is pointing out about BDO. However, he white knighted that turd to high heaven. That's what Mel is pointing out. 

    So, if we look at from the logic that you're using Kano must not give a shit about Trion or any of their games. He looks the other way when someone brings up problems in anything Trion so he must think those game suck and wants them to fail. 

    Again White Knighting a shitty game and pointing out every short coming of another.

    Sorry, your train of thought is not logical at all. Even if the points Kano brought up are valid.
  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
    edited June 2016

    fodell54 said:










    DMKano said:













    DMKano said:




    The answer is it rampant or not will highly depend on the player's exposure to it which is based on each players style of play.









    Solo players under level 50 who mostly craft/level horses/fish - not rampant at all - because you'll likely never see a single hacker. This entire hacking thing might seem like a complete fantasy to player like this.









    50+ players hunting in highly contested areas - you've probably been near hackers and not even realized - you may have seen people blatantly hacking if hunting Ogres/Susans or World Bosses. Chances of seeing hackers are moderate.









    55+ PvP players - you probably know people who are hacking, might even have some in your guild - might even be hacking yourself - this is where the Rampant category fits, as you're likely to see it every night. Pirate island people call Hacker's island lol - because it's that bad









    But how rampant is it really as far as OVERALL playerbase?









    If you go to popular forums where MMO hacks are sold and used - you'll notice that there are thousands of users in BDO forums, and since only a small % post in forums - the real number is significantly higher (also there are several flavors of the hack - so a single forum doesn't even encompass it all - you'd have to go to multiple forums).









    This is my guess - out of 100K active concurrent nightly users in BDO (lets assume this number didn't go down in the last couple of months) - what % are running hacks?









    I'd say anywhere from 5% (assuming 5K active hack forum posters are all there is) - to 25% - assuming that there are many more who us the exploit but never post in hack forums.









    My personal gut feeling is that probably a 10% are hacking - it's widespread - because guilds are sharing the hack with their members now so it keeps growing.














    Why did it get this bad - well the hack itself is super easy to do - and the godmode that it provides is just crazy good - HP that doesn't go down and being able to spam skills at will without cooldown - gravy train.









    Add Daum's very poor response so far (they are severely understaffed to tackle this problem with GMs) which forced them to basically ask the players to do the work for them (hacker hunting program) - it's not good.









    As long as Daum doesn't address this in code - it's going to get worse. I know they delayed Valencia to work on the hacking issue - I hope they can pull it off





















    While you make good points. I find it funny when very similar hacking (probably still to this day) was happening in AA and all I ever saw was you defending the game and publisher. Yet, with BDO you seem to be on a crusade. Not sure why that is. Maybe you are finding people in your guild or gaming circles leaving trion to go to BDO. Maybe you had a bad experience while in BDO. No one will really know. Either way, its hard to take what you're saying as genuine and not just an axe to grind with BDO.







    Even if I had an axe to grind with BDO, you could still focus on and debate the points I am making instead of focusing on whatever personal bias.

    When people have an axe to grind the points they bring up don't hold up to scrutiny. 

    The points can be scrutinized on their own, pretend that it was written by an anonymous poster and see if they hold any water.

    If the message is full of false information then that will reveal the messengers malicious intent.















    Funny, I don't recall you being so objective with AA and it's horde of problems. So, I'll just stick with you have an axe to grind. BTW, if it was another poster. I would of came to the same conclusion based off that posters (you) post history.






    It doesn't even seem like you read his post at all. I don't even know why you'd call it out as him "having an axe to grind" with BDO when the points he made were valid and he just wants the game to be bot free. He wants what's best for the game... yet he obviously is just hating on BDO. Sorry, that train of thought is not logical at all.


    The points people pointed about AA were no less valid then points Kano is pointing out about BDO. However, he white knighted that turd to high heaven. That's what Mel is pointing out. 

    So, if we look at from the logic that you're using Kano must not give a shit about Trion or any of their games. He looks the other way when someone brings up problems in anything Trion so he must think those game suck and wants them to fail. 

    Again White Knighting a shitty game and pointing out every short coming of another.

    Sorry, your train of thought is not logical at all. Even if the points Kano brought up are valid.



    Considering AA has nothing to do with BDO and people are just assuming something about another user that they have absolutely no proof of (aka badmouthing BDO just to... badmouth it?), I honestly find the whole thing quite immature. What if he genuinely enjoys BDO and just wants to see it do well? Yes though, let's assume a player has some hidden agenda and is out to discredit a game that they seem to be quite knowledgeable about.

    The point is, people shouldn't be randomly attacking others and saying stuff that they have absolutely zero proof of just because of a poster's view on a completely different game. It's really childish to smear others just because you may not agree with them on another game.

    Smile

  • MseroticaMserotica Member UncommonPosts: 6
    the very sad part is hacking has gotten bad. i left a guild i liked. one of the members was using a hacking tool. he payed 100.00 monthly. he has unlimited gold , storage , able to oneshot world bosses. i sadly saw it first hand.

    i didnt believe as i thought nah. not possible...but seems alot of bdo is held client side . he showed a picture of his storage. with a few billion gold. went on stream for a minute on hitbox and used this tool and it doubled his gold. i put alot of tim into bdo. recently quit as tbh when players can do this and share the same tool among others in the guild they trust. all thats happening is they are as you say. ruining the game.

    he alrdy showed his 3 emails from daumeu. hes been reported multiple times and let off with warnings.

    i had high hopes but as someone else said take a look abdo area on hack sites the few thousand players multiply that by x5 and thats how big it is.

    as much as i wish theyd perma ban. they wont. thry should. hackers always rebuy the game.
  • MseroticaMserotica Member UncommonPosts: 6




    fodell54 said:
















    DMKano said:

















    DMKano said:





    The answer is it rampant or not will highly depend on the player's exposure to it which is based on each players style of play.











    Solo players under level 50 who mostly craft/level horses/fish - not rampant at all - because you'll likely never see a single hacker. This entire hacking thing might seem like a complete fantasy to player like this.











    50+ players hunting in highly contested areas - you've probably been near hackers and not even realized - you may have seen people blatantly hacking if hunting Ogres/Susans or World Bosses. Chances of seeing hackers are moderate.











    55+ PvP players - you probably know people who are hacking, might even have some in your guild - might even be hacking yourself - this is where the Rampant category fits, as you're likely to see it every night. Pirate island people call Hacker's island lol - because it's that bad











    But how rampant is it really as far as OVERALL playerbase?











    If you go to popular forums where MMO hacks are sold and used - you'll notice that there are thousands of users in BDO forums, and since only a small % post in forums - the real number is significantly higher (also there are several flavors of the hack - so a single forum doesn't even encompass it all - you'd have to go to multiple forums).











    This is my guess - out of 100K active concurrent nightly users in BDO (lets assume this number didn't go down in the last couple of months) - what % are running hacks?











    I'd say anywhere from 5% (assuming 5K active hack forum posters are all there is) - to 25% - assuming that there are many more who us the exploit but never post in hack forums.











    My personal gut feeling is that probably a 10% are hacking - it's widespread - because guilds are sharing the hack with their members now so it keeps growing.

















    Why did it get this bad - well the hack itself is super easy to do - and the godmode that it provides is just crazy good - HP that doesn't go down and being able to spam skills at will without cooldown - gravy train.











    Add Daum's very poor response so far (they are severely understaffed to tackle this problem with GMs) which forced them to basically ask the players to do the work for them (hacker hunting program) - it's not good.











    As long as Daum doesn't address this in code - it's going to get worse. I know they delayed Valencia to work on the hacking issue - I hope they can pull it off


























    While you make good points. I find it funny when very similar hacking (probably still to this day) was happening in AA and all I ever saw was you defending the game and publisher. Yet, with BDO you seem to be on a crusade. Not sure why that is. Maybe you are finding people in your guild or gaming circles leaving trion to go to BDO. Maybe you had a bad experience while in BDO. No one will really know. Either way, its hard to take what you're saying as genuine and not just an axe to grind with BDO.









    Even if I had an axe to grind with BDO, you could still focus on and debate the points I am making instead of focusing on whatever personal bias.

    When people have an axe to grind the points they bring up don't hold up to scrutiny. 

    The points can be scrutinized on their own, pretend that it was written by an anonymous poster and see if they hold any water.

    If the message is full of false information then that will reveal the messengers malicious intent.


















    Funny, I don't recall you being so objective with AA and it's horde of problems. So, I'll just stick with you have an axe to grind. BTW, if it was another poster. I would of came to the same conclusion based off that posters (you) post history.









    It doesn't even seem like you read his post at all. I don't even know why you'd call it out as him "having an axe to grind" with BDO when the points he made were valid and he just wants the game to be bot free. He wants what's best for the game... yet he obviously is just hating on BDO. Sorry, that train of thought is not logical at all.




    The points people pointed about AA were no less valid then points Kano is pointing out about BDO. However, he white knighted that turd to high heaven. That's what Mel is pointing out. 

    So, if we look at from the logic that you're using Kano must not give a shit about Trion or any of their games. He looks the other way when someone brings up problems in anything Trion so he must think those game suck and wants them to fail. 

    Again White Knighting a shitty game and pointing out every short coming of another.

    Sorry, your train of thought is not logical at all. Even if the points Kano brought up are valid.






    Considering AA has nothing to do with BDO and people are just assuming something about another user that they have absolutely no proof of (aka badmouthing BDO just to... badmouth it?), I honestly find the whole thing quite immature. What if he genuinely enjoys BDO and just wants to see it do well? Yes though, let's assume a player has some hidden agenda and is out to discredit a game that they seem to be quite knowledgeable about.



    The point is, people shouldn't be randomly attacking others and saying stuff that they have absolutely zero proof of just because of a poster's view on a completely different game. It's really childish to smear others just because you may not agree with them on another game.



    the thing is you can google the proof. if you wanna buy a hack look it up. not hard theres dozens for bdo.

    only reason why is because stuff isnt held all server side so it opens up to major hacking.
  • Sid_ViciousSid_Vicious Member UncommonPosts: 2,159
    Mserotica said:
    the very sad part is hacking has gotten bad. i left a guild i liked. one of the members was using a hacking tool. he payed 100.00 monthly. he has unlimited gold , storage , able to oneshot world bosses. i sadly saw it first hand.

    i didnt believe as i thought nah. not possible...but seems alot of bdo is held client side . he showed a picture of his storage. with a few billion gold. went on stream for a minute on hitbox and used this tool and it doubled his gold. i put alot of tim into bdo. recently quit as tbh when players can do this and share the same tool among others in the guild they trust. all thats happening is they are as you say. ruining the game.

    he alrdy showed his 3 emails from daumeu. hes been reported multiple times and let off with warnings.

    i had high hopes but as someone else said take a look abdo area on hack sites the few thousand players multiply that by x5 and thats how big it is.

    as much as i wish theyd perma ban. they wont. thry should. hackers always rebuy the game.
    :.(..

    sad I was thinking of trying this game but I've never had to put up with anything as serious as what you are mentioning!!

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