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MMORPG truly a dying genre

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  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    edited June 2016
    wiennas said:
    in rpgs also lies progress & future of video games. There is no doubt
    Actually, I think the 'RPG' half of the equation is the most stagnant. Not really greatly changed since Ultima and Rogue and DOOM. Kill stuff, collect stuff, sell stuff, repeat.

    Ooh look, I'm killing stuff with a pulse rifle instead of a bow. That IS waaay different!

    The 'MMO' half only suffers from too much cloning of controls and UIs. And a great deal of confusion surrounding pricing models, but that'll work itself out over time.
  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Klyern said:
    Vardahot i think you are being way too cynical, you keep talking about the mmo genre like its flourishing just like it was back in 2006
    ?

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    I think mmorpg's had a difficult time these few years ,and many players were turned away from them.
    We had many flops, bad publishers, unstable servers, p2w or simply bad game models, and stuff that made players not play it anymore.And most were, simply said, bad, yes, bad games, you cant make a new dungeon expect all players to play it for next several months and call that a content.. noooo.

    But, there are many upcomming titles in 2016-17 and i hope at least one of those is my kind of game.
  • SanisarSanisar Member UncommonPosts: 135
    It pains me to say it because I have loved MMOs for so very long, but the general formula of MMORPGs has just become outdated.  There are so many great options for online multiplayer entertainment these days that don't require huge time (and/or money) investments before you reach the 'fun' part of the game, and frankly the majority of MMORPG players consider elder game content the real payoff.

    MOBAs, FPS, and CCGs are the top online games these days and they share a lot in common with each other, mainly that they are free or cheap to play and/or compete in and they offer immediate payouts of fun.  There is no grinding until the entertaining part (though you can certainly grind ranks etc).  There is typically no money involved to be competitive (there are exceptions certainly).  The main games in these genres (LoL, Dota, CS, Overwatch, Hearthstone, etc) command a genuinely massive amount of players.  There is no huge sense of wasted time if you decide to quit one of these games for a while, no real sense of being left behind.

    Maybe the concept of a game like Camelot Unchained can change that by eliminating the level grind ramp-up and maybe not.  Frankly though MMORPGs just don't captivate me the same way they used to because I no longer have the infinite time required to be top tier or even not to feel left behind.  

    I can always boot up a game of DOTA in an hour and be perfectly satisfied while paying zero though, and that is something no MMO can offer me right now.  Someone will eventually figure out the formula to make something resembling an MMORPG that fits the current market, but it will likely take some time and iteration to nail down.  For now I'm just going to casually watch the genre evolve from afar and await something that scratches that itch without requiring more time than my job to be competitive/enjoyable.
  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    Sanisar said:
    It pains me to say it because I have loved MMOs for so very long, but the general formula of MMORPGs has just become outdated.  There are so many great options for online multiplayer entertainment these days that don't require huge time (and/or money) investments before you reach the 'fun' part of the game, and frankly the majority of MMORPG players consider elder game content the real payoff.

    MOBAs, FPS, and CCGs are the top online games these days and they share a lot in common with each other, mainly that they are free or cheap to play and/or compete in and they offer immediate payouts of fun.  There is no grinding until the entertaining part (though you can certainly grind ranks etc).  There is typically no money involved to be competitive (there are exceptions certainly).  The main games in these genres (LoL, Dota, CS, Overwatch, Hearthstone, etc) command a genuinely massive amount of players.  There is no huge sense of wasted time if you decide to quit one of these games for a while, no real sense of being left behind.

    Maybe the concept of a game like Camelot Unchained can change that by eliminating the level grind ramp-up and maybe not.  Frankly though MMORPGs just don't captivate me the same way they used to because I no longer have the infinite time required to be top tier or even not to feel left behind.  

    I can always boot up a game of DOTA in an hour and be perfectly satisfied while paying zero though, and that is something no MMO can offer me right now.  Someone will eventually figure out the formula to make something resembling an MMORPG that fits the current market, but it will likely take some time and iteration to nail down.  For now I'm just going to casually watch the genre evolve from afar and await something that scratches that itch without requiring more time than my job to be competitive/enjoyable.
    Logged on just to respond to this.
    Yes! Bullseye!  Play grinders, you get bored, or you might simply have no time to invest, if you have no time to invest ,your not competetive ,if you can buy your way to be competetive, the game is crap p2w, and if there are no ways of someone being OP compared to the rest, you get a feeling of emptiness (GW2) where everyone is on nearly the same strenght.

    Nowadays its all based on where the scraps of community are remaining, the mmorpgs are not as active these few years as they were before, good ones got dated, and no new good ones got released for quite some time.
    Theres still a chance for 2016-17 releases.Untill than, i just like many others hop from title to title, and in the meantime play mobas and the other genres.
  • sketocafesketocafe Member UncommonPosts: 950
    Speaking for myself, I'm just so very, very tired of the same old formula used to construct the systems that make up MMOs.

    Nine times out of ten, hotbar combat puts me to sleep. You press a button and get an effect. How does pressing 1 translate into casting a fireball? It doesn't feel like i'm casting a fireball, it feels like I hit 1. Most classes feel the same to me when the meat of the game play is pressing 1,2,3,4 over and again. The difference between using hotkeys to cycle through a rotation for a Sorcerer, Archer or Thief is merely a difference in animation. 

    The quality of quest development it is apparently acceptable to release with makes me dread the leveling process. I'll find myself repeating the same basic task fifty times when it was a chore the first time. I don't want to kill ten bear-asses for 1000 xp and a few gold pieces anymore. Can't I just not, instead? Why won't you let me not? If I try to tell you to shove your phoned-in leveling experience where the sun don't shine and continue on I just walk into a place where everyone slaps me around without the slightest effort.

    Highest-on-threat-table and taunt effects is as dirt-simple as you can get for enemy behavior, yet damn near every MMO in the last decade and a half seems comfortable with including it. Every single fight works out the same way. Tank builds threat, healer heals tank, dps focuses mobs down. Sometimes they'll throw us a bone and give us things to not stand in or a mob or two which must be cc'd. Wow. Such excitement. Why is it possible for me to break dance in the middle of a group of enemies and have them all ignore me completely because my large plate-wearing friend called them all smelly jerks? Shouldn't  a few of them take a swipe at me for my insolence alone or because I have my back to them?

    There's a bunch of other stuff but I tend to write books on these topics so I'll not, except to say instanced dungeons: ewww.  I should point out that I don't mean to say that these things are impossible to well, that every game with hotbar combat will suck, because that's not the case. Playing an Assassin in Blade and Soul was a unique and very enjoyable experience for me in terms of MMO mechanical game play and that's very much hotbar combat. Elder Scrolls Online had fantastic questing, if you bothered to listen to why you were doing the things asked of you. This is because they noticeably devoted resources to it. I'm actually not sure how you do threat tables and taunts well, but you can surely do enemy behavior better. DnD Online required you to have good positioning in your party with tanks up front, squishies in the back and leather-wearers in between to intercept mobs running for your casters because the mobs wouldn't politely attack the tanks just because they were asked to.

    The problem is, getting one aspect right isn't enough and since 'right' is completely subjective, a game designed to be just right for goldie-me may very well be doomed to fail because the majority of potential customers think it idiotic items have a fixed space in the world and there are no auction houses to magically move the shit into your inventory. Others will be completely new to the genre and find all of the minimum-effort systems I've played with a dozen times new and exciting. 

    The obvious solution to me is for developers to temper their expectations and quit trying to become Blizzard but instead aim to be the CCP of old. Don't spend 300 million developing and marketing a game and imagine you'll get 5 million subs who will stick with you for years, because they won't. You'll sell a million and lose most of them in a few short months. Instead spend no more than 50 to build a stable foundation with enough to do for you to grab a few hundred thousand subscribers who are into the niche you aimed for and hold on to them for dear life while you shove your profits back in and grow your game with them. Your dev team should grow after launch, not get decimated. You will never be Blizzard but you may be CCP. Just don't throw all your money into a spin-off game designed exclusively for a geriatric console at the far, far end of its life-cycle when all of your existing customers are pc gamers. Instead, turn 1/3 of your stations into co-op deadspace areas, dumbasses. The problem here is that this basically requires a sandbox. People are spending hundreds of millions on themeparks and aren't able to provide enough content to keep players. You will not get a stable base of customers with a fraction of that budget if you're not going sandbox and giving them the toys with which to make their own content. They won't stick around with you to let you continue what you've started.

    Another thing I see that may work for whomever gets it right first if you're more into the theme-park thing is a Massively Cooperative ORPG. Throw all of your players together into a situation where they have to work together to accomplish a task. Giant city and a zombie outbreak. Tower of Duraga, SAO or Is it wrong to pick up... style huge dungeon people need to work together to clear levels of. Spaceships and a war. You need to set your players up against overwhelming odds and get them to join forces without factions splitting them up and restricting interactions between some players merely to combat. This is being done at a very small scale but not massively. I'd avoid pvp for the simple fact that the Day Z mod when it was Arma players and the Day Z mod after it became popular were two completely different games and one of them couldn't hold a candle to the other. The question of whether this stranger would work with you or take your shit was an interesting one when there were multiple possible answers. It's far less interesting when the whole world wanted to play and the answer was always the same. The survival genre cannot survive popularity and remain what it was, it becomes something else. So give your players a challenge from the AI and let them join together, set them up against a world which very much wants to kill them and is capable of doing so. Massively Cooperative. 

    And here I went and wrote another book anyways.
  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,042
    edited June 2016
    wrong thread lol
  • ScottgunScottgun Member UncommonPosts: 528
    edited June 2016
    wrong thread lol
    Understandable given that mmorpg.com is veritable minefield of these "mmorpgs are dying"-type threads even though we only need one locked and stickied with only one sentence explaining the problem: "Been there, done that."
  • madazzmadazz Member RarePosts: 1,995
    Scottgun said:
    wrong thread lol
    Understandable given that mmorpg.com is veritable minefield of these "mmorpgs are dying"-type threads even though we only need one locked and stickied with only one sentence explaining the problem: "Been there, done that."
    Subspace!! Chaos server player here. Only commenting on your warbird avatar.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Sanisar said:
    It pains me to say it because I have loved MMOs for so very long, but the general formula of MMORPGs has just become outdated.  There are so many great options for online multiplayer entertainment these days that don't require huge time (and/or money) investments before you reach the 'fun' part of the game, and frankly the majority of MMORPG players consider elder game content the real payoff.

    MOBAs, FPS, and CCGs are the top online games these days and they share a lot in common with each other, mainly that they are free or cheap to play and/or compete in and they offer immediate payouts of fun.  There is no grinding until the entertaining part (though you can certainly grind ranks etc).  There is typically no money involved to be competitive (there are exceptions certainly).  The main games in these genres (LoL, Dota, CS, Overwatch, Hearthstone, etc) command a genuinely massive amount of players.  There is no huge sense of wasted time if you decide to quit one of these games for a while, no real sense of being left behind.


    Precisely. That is also why many mmorpg put in convenient features .. click a button, and you can do a quick dungeon run, to compete with these games.

    In fact, you forget to put in ARPG where you can just go in and kill stuff, with minimal set-up & hassle. It is not a surprise that MMOs are increasingly like that. In fact, that is why you have hybrids like Destiny & the Division. 

    In fact, devs stop making AAA mmorpgs in the west because they can make these more popular online games. So why bother? 
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