I've masked the names, but I find that scary. Requirement of 6h or more played daily... No way a 18+ adult with a job can afford playing a video game over 6 hours a day every single day. So that's most likely a guild of jobless social leeches.
But to enjoy this game, you definitely do NOT have to do that. Just have fun and don't care about playtime. And you have many guilds which have absolutely no silly requirements and accept casual (or I'd say, normal) players.
6 hours a day is really nothing, That could be after work hours staying up to 12-1am. I remember some folks in SWG bragging about being on 18 hours a day, that would be the type of player you refer to.
8 hours job (+ 1 hour or two lunch break), so you come home and eat some crap food in front of the computer until 1am to go to sleep and wake up next morning to go work again? No time for family, house shores or other activities required by a normal human life.
Very sane way of life indeed. Those people are definitely adults casually playing a video game without any problems.
Sorry folks, I have a hard time understanding how a "normal" adult can defend a guild having such requirements. That's basically a second job. When I was "hardcore" raiding in WoW, the "required" attendance was 3x3=9 hours... PER WEEK. Add a few hours per week of playing to get the required materials or gold, and that's it.
This is where some people get their social interaction. Might seem extreme but I guess it's better than nothing. I prefer socializing with people that I can see and interact with without the need of a keyboard and/or monitor. Specially my wife and kids and maybe you do too but not everyone is wired that way or actually has any responsibility outside of work.
I've masked the names, but I find that scary. Requirement of 6h or more played daily... No way a 18+ adult with a job can afford playing a video game over 6 hours a day every single day. So that's most likely a guild of jobless social leeches.
But to enjoy this game, you definitely do NOT have to do that. Just have fun and don't care about playtime. And you have many guilds which have absolutely no silly requirements and accept casual (or I'd say, normal) players.
6 hours a day is really nothing, That could be after work hours staying up to 12-1am. I remember some folks in SWG bragging about being on 18 hours a day, that would be the type of player you refer to.
8 hours job (+ 1 hour or two lunch break), so you come home and eat some crap food in front of the computer until 1am to go to sleep and wake up next morning to go work again? No time for family, house shores or other activities required by a normal human life.
Very sane way of life indeed. Those people are definitely adults casually playing a video game without any problems.
Sorry folks, I have a hard time understanding how a "normal" adult can defend a guild having such requirements. That's basically a second job. When I was "hardcore" raiding in WoW, the "required" attendance was 3x3=9 hours... PER WEEK. Add a few hours per week of playing to get the required materials or gold, and that's it.
Well it's definitely not for me, but yeah these folks exist, and this is the guild for them I guess. /shrug
We have level 57 ranger in our guild that is probably the best geared player on the server - my level 55 misses A LOT of shots on him in duels.
The classes are not balanced so even in equal gear and levels rangers have a huge upper hand over melee.
my level 52 alt in mediocre gear lol its not even a contest, i mean the two shot is real.
Levels combined with gear + class imbalance leads to extreme disparity in PvP.
That's the thing it just happens that current highest level players just happen to be also the best geared.
Again 2 levels difference between a Ranger and a ranger is something you can overcome in similar gear. 2 levels of well geared ranger vs a bersker in mediocre gear - zero chance.
According to the guy in that thread, he should only have 2% more accuracy and evasion than your 55, and only 5% more than your 52. Is he wearing any other accuracy/evasion bonuses or do rangers get skills that boost these stats?
Player 1 (moderate gamer): Budget 250m, grinded a total of 200 hours. Level 55.
Average
gear at this bracket: Liverto+15 (70m), OH+15 (20m), Armor+15 (80m),
DUO Bares neck/belt (5m), PRI MoS (60m), clean Witch Earrings (18m). Total 253m.
Approximate stats: 137AP/160DP
Player 2 (super hardcore gamer):
Budget 1bil, grinded 2000 hours. Level 58. It will take more than
800 hours to get 4x the money the first player made because a lot of
very profitable activities are restricted, such as daily boss scrolls.
Average
gear at this bracket: Kzarka+15 (150m), Ultimate OH+15 (30m), Ultimate
Armor+15 (120m), PRI Ogre (250m), Tree spirit (30m), DUO Witch+MoS
(480m). Total 1.06bil.
Approximate stats: 157AP/180DP
DP calculations show the first player will have 32% damage reduction, while the second player will have 36%.
If Player 1 did a skill with base damage of 100% on Player 2, it will do 137 * (1 - 0.36) = 88 damage.
If Player 2 did the same thing to Player 1, it will do 157 * (1 - 0.32) = 107 damage. The difference in damage when the two players hit each other is 20%, despite the ridiculous gear gap.
If both are farming monsters or hitting the same target, Player 2 damage is only higher by (157/137) - 1 = 14.5%.
If Player 1 invests a small sum of 40mil into Ultimate armor, then he would gain the 20 DP difference making the damage difference when the two players hit each other 14.5%, instead of 20%.
The
accuracy difference between the two players is 3% given the 3 level
difference, which means a small DPS difference of approximately 3%. In
PvP this is negligible because the law of large numbers does not
meaningfully apply to burst scenarios. In order to kill someone, every
hit must land.
I don't think there are many if any players
more geared than hypothetical Player 2 right now, so does a damage
difference of 14~% really change the narrative from "wow no damage" to
"omg that p2w neckbeard 1 shot me"?
Edit: If
you add more buffs and food and stuff then the damage difference
between the two players actually gets smaller. The reason for this is AP
has diminishing returns because it scales linearly. For the same reason
if you account for crystals, the DPS gap shrinks too.
If
we remove DP difference (since Ultimate armor so cheap) and take
account of food, potions, guild buffs, crystals, etc for an additional
40 AP, then the damage difference between the two players become 11.3%.This scenario is actually more realistic given this is what you'll do in a serious fight.
All
of the above information proves that players can be competitive with
minimal playtime. Of course you'll be at a disadvantage, but 11.3% is
nothing to cry about. When this game gets older, since enchanting is
diminishing returns, this 11.3% gap will shrink smaller and smaller.
So my question to the community is:
Is
gear really that important? Or can most of this perceived gap be
accounted for by cognitive biases and Chinese whispers? Is it possible
that players who killed you were just simply more skilled at his class?
I think his equating accuracy to %dps is a bit simplistic, but his basic premise is that you can survive and have a fighting chance against top geared people putting in about 200 hours into the game (not too much by MMO standards to be competitive endgame). Putting aside class imbalances, do you agree or disagree with that?
I've masked the names, but I find that scary. Requirement of 6h or more played daily... Now way a 18+ adult with a job can afford playing a video game over 6 hours a day every single day. So that's most likely a guild of jobless social leeches.
But to enjoy this game, you definitely do NOT have to do that. Just have fun and don't care about playtime. And you have many guilds which have absolutely no silly requirements and accept casual (or I'd say, normal) players.
Yeah that's INSANE, how many 18+ can invest 6 hours plus a day in a game? I'll give the trial a shot but there has to be some real no lifers in this game if guilds have those sort of recruitment requirements.
@Senden Our society has reached the point that it now supports the existence of this type of person on a relatively large scale compared to the past.
@Jean-Luc_Picard ; There are even pvp guilds like this in ESO -- one of the most casual-friendly games out now. I just stay away from pvp now and enjoy the stuff they're putting out for casuals.
And there's always GW2 where you can do spvp, which is pretty fun and you can drop in whenever you want. Gear does not matter.
I've masked the names, but I find that scary. Requirement of 6h or more played daily... No way a 18+ adult with a job can afford playing a video game over 6 hours a day every single day. So that's most likely a guild of jobless social leeches.
But to enjoy this game, you definitely do NOT have to do that. Just have fun and don't care about playtime. And you have many guilds which have absolutely no silly requirements and accept casual (or I'd say, normal) players.
"Jobless social leeches" wow, they could be retired or have that much free time after work...
I had this vision of all these retirees in a hardcore pvp guild running around pwning noobs. I hope some of the old geezers put their streams up so I can watch them cackle as they gank.
All of the above information proves that players can be competitive with minimal playtime.
That is a load of horseshit - minimal playtime players wont' even get to +15 gear in months played.
A
player that gets to 250mil silver to afford +15 liverto and +15 gear -
that's far from "minimal playtime" - that's someone who plays a lot."
I'm not so sure. People in this thread are saying 6 hrs a day is hardcore. So let's say half that is fairly casual- 3 hours a day.
You'd get 200 hours in about 2 months. I've read guides about getting 4 million in passive income from workers and of course afk fishing is pretty profitable. That's not to mention drops you get. I don't think getting 250 million in two months is that extreme. As long as your making 1 or 2 million a day, you'd get there in 2 months easily.
And by almost any MMO standards- becoming pvp viable in 2 months of fairly casual play is not very extreme.
Of course the problem is until you get to that point you're going to be at an extreme disadvantage, and even when you get there you're still at a disadvantage, but that's par for the course for OWPVP games.
I fully expect to get wrecked by hardcore players that have played the same toon since launch. I'm just concerned with having a fighting chance against most players and it seems within reach for me and probably most players.
I've masked the names, but I find that scary. Requirement of 6h or more played daily... No way a 18+ adult with a job can afford playing a video game over 6 hours a day every single day. So that's most likely a guild of jobless social leeches.
But to enjoy this game, you definitely do NOT have to do that. Just have fun and don't care about playtime. And you have many guilds which have absolutely no silly requirements and accept casual (or I'd say, normal) players.
6 hours a day is really nothing, That could be after work hours staying up to 12-1am. I remember some folks in SWG bragging about being on 18 hours a day, that would be the type of player you refer to.
8 hours job (+ 1 hour or two lunch break), so you come home and eat some crap food in front of the computer until 1am to go to sleep and wake up next morning to go work again? No time for family, house shores or other activities required by a normal human life.
Very sane way of life indeed. Those people are definitely adults casually playing a video game without any problems.
Sorry folks, I have a hard time understanding how a "normal" adult can defend a guild having such requirements. That's basically a second job. When I was "hardcore" raiding in WoW, the "required" attendance was 3x3=9 hours... PER WEEK. Add a few hours per week of playing to get the required materials or gold, and that's it.
Most gamers don't have "normal" adult lives, I'd imagine. How many adults spend a lot of their time playing video games? Not many.
It's not much different than spending 6 hours a day watching TV, which plenty of people do.
6hrs a day is a lot to require but I don't think it means everyone in that guild is a "jobless leech".
"a sane professional, social and family life."
Who the hell has a sane professional, social and family life? Not me. If I did I probably wouldn't be playing MMOs.
If you rely that heavily on a video game that you can't have everything that Jean listed I feel sorry for you. The vast majority of adults that I have met throughout my almost 20 years playing in this genre are exactly what was described. Maybe small variations but for the most he's spot on.
The ones that fall into the latter are what the rest of the world calls losers. You know the old saying about living in your parents basement playing games. Yeah.... There's a reason that people say that.
All of the above information proves that players can be competitive with minimal playtime.
That is a load of horseshit - minimal playtime players wont' even get to +15 gear in months played.
A
player that gets to 250mil silver to afford +15 liverto and +15 gear -
that's far from "minimal playtime" - that's someone who plays a lot."
I'm not so sure. People in this thread are saying 6 hrs a day is hardcore. So let's say half that is fairly casual- 3 hours a day.
You'd get 200 hours in about 2 months. I've read guides about getting 4 million in passive income from workers and of course afk fishing is pretty profitable. That's not to mention drops you get. I don't think getting 250 million in two months is that extreme. As long as your making 1 or 2 million a day, you'd get there in 2 months easily.
And by almost any MMO standards- becoming pvp viable in 2 months of fairly casual play is not very extreme.
Of course the problem is until you get to that point you're going to be at an extreme disadvantage, and even when you get there you're still at a disadvantage, but that's par for the course for OWPVP games.
I fully expect to get wrecked by hardcore players that have played the same toon since launch. I'm just concerned with having a fighting chance against most players and it seems within reach for me and probably most players.
The part I quoted said *minimal playtime"
To me 3 hours a day is not minimal.
Anything done 3 hours a day is a lot - 3 hours of exercise, 3 hours of tv, 3 hours of games - that is a lot.
Minimal playtime would be 15-30min daily.
I don't consider 3 hours a day a lot by mmo standards and I doubt anyone in the world plays an MMO for 15 minutes a day.
I've masked the names, but I find that scary. Requirement of 6h or more played daily... No way a 18+ adult with a job can afford playing a video game over 6 hours a day every single day. So that's most likely a guild of jobless social leeches.
But to enjoy this game, you definitely do NOT have to do that. Just have fun and don't care about playtime. And you have many guilds which have absolutely no silly requirements and accept casual (or I'd say, normal) players.
6 hours a day is really nothing, That could be after work hours staying up to 12-1am. I remember some folks in SWG bragging about being on 18 hours a day, that would be the type of player you refer to.
8 hours job (+ 1 hour or two lunch break), so you come home and eat some crap food in front of the computer until 1am to go to sleep and wake up next morning to go work again? No time for family, house shores or other activities required by a normal human life.
Very sane way of life indeed. Those people are definitely adults casually playing a video game without any problems.
Sorry folks, I have a hard time understanding how a "normal" adult can defend a guild having such requirements. That's basically a second job. When I was "hardcore" raiding in WoW, the "required" attendance was 3x3=9 hours... PER WEEK. Add a few hours per week of playing to get the required materials or gold, and that's it.
Most gamers don't have "normal" adult lives, I'd imagine. How many adults spend a lot of their time playing video games? Not many.
It's not much different than spending 6 hours a day watching TV, which plenty of people do.
6hrs a day is a lot to require but I don't think it means everyone in that guild is a "jobless leech".
"a sane professional, social and family life."
Who the hell has a sane professional, social and family life? Not me. If I did I probably wouldn't be playing MMOs.
If you rely that heavily on a video game that you can't have everything that Jean listed I feel sorry for you. The vast majority of adults that I have met throughout my almost 20 years playing in this genre are exactly what was described. Maybe small variations but for the most he's spot on.
The ones that fall into the latter are what the rest of the world calls losers. You know the old saying about living in your parents basement playing games. Yeah.... There's a reason that people say that.
Eh fell sorry for me and call me a loser if you want. I had a drug problem and a weird life, but I'm coming out of it now. I'm not living with my parents but I had to at one point, and I don't think you should be so quick to mock people that are. People can have all kinds of issues that you can't even imagine and a stable and sane professional, social and family life is actually a pretty damn rare thing in this world, let alone for a gamer.
Video games are by definition a pretty solitary hobby to pursue so you're less likely to establish an ideal life if you're an avid gamer simply because you're not interacting with people as often as most people are.
Sure it's possible to do it and I'm glad that some people are able to, but I wouldn't expect it to be the norm for gamers, or anyone with a time-consuming hobby that requires solitude.
MMOs in particular are virtual worlds so they're appealing for people that are not having such a great time in the real world. Not sure why it's so popular to mock those people.
MMOs are also by definition pretty damn time consuming. If you're not prepared to put in some long sessions, I'm not sure why you're playing them considering it takes awhile to get anything meaningful done in any MMO.
All of the above information proves that players can be competitive with minimal playtime.
That is a load of horseshit - minimal playtime players wont' even get to +15 gear in months played.
A
player that gets to 250mil silver to afford +15 liverto and +15 gear -
that's far from "minimal playtime" - that's someone who plays a lot."
I'm not so sure. People in this thread are saying 6 hrs a day is hardcore. So let's say half that is fairly casual- 3 hours a day.
You'd get 200 hours in about 2 months. I've read guides about getting 4 million in passive income from workers and of course afk fishing is pretty profitable. That's not to mention drops you get. I don't think getting 250 million in two months is that extreme. As long as your making 1 or 2 million a day, you'd get there in 2 months easily.
And by almost any MMO standards- becoming pvp viable in 2 months of fairly casual play is not very extreme.
Of course the problem is until you get to that point you're going to be at an extreme disadvantage, and even when you get there you're still at a disadvantage, but that's par for the course for OWPVP games.
I fully expect to get wrecked by hardcore players that have played the same toon since launch. I'm just concerned with having a fighting chance against most players and it seems within reach for me and probably most players.
The part I quoted said *minimal playtime"
To me 3 hours a day is not minimal.
Anything done 3 hours a day is a lot - 3 hours of exercise, 3 hours of tv, 3 hours of games - that is a lot.
Minimal playtime would be 15-30min daily.
I don't consider 3 hours a day a lot by mmo standards and I doubt anyone in the world plays an MMO for 15 minutes a day.
OK so what is minimal playtime to you?
Certainly at least an hour. I can't imagine playing an MMO for less than hour sessions.
Overwatch or Hearthstone? Sure I can see playing those for 15-30 minutes.
3 hours for an MMO still seems pretty casual to me. I was playing BnS for 8-12 hour sessions there for awhile.
3 hours a day comes out to 8 hours on the weekend and another 5 hours throughout the week for all of you super stable happy life people. Not that unreasonable imo.
If you have only 15-30 minutes to play a day, how can you expect to be "competitive" in any MMO? I am not aware of any MMO that allows for that, besides equalized battlegrounds, but usually there's advantages even there for people that play longer (severe advantages in BnS for example).
And that's just PVP. There are plenty of dungeons in MMOs that take longer than 15-30 minutes to complete.
All of the above information proves that players can be competitive with minimal playtime.
That is a load of horseshit - minimal playtime players wont' even get to +15 gear in months played.
A
player that gets to 250mil silver to afford +15 liverto and +15 gear -
that's far from "minimal playtime" - that's someone who plays a lot."
I'm not so sure. People in this thread are saying 6 hrs a day is hardcore. So let's say half that is fairly casual- 3 hours a day.
You'd get 200 hours in about 2 months. I've read guides about getting 4 million in passive income from workers and of course afk fishing is pretty profitable. That's not to mention drops you get. I don't think getting 250 million in two months is that extreme. As long as your making 1 or 2 million a day, you'd get there in 2 months easily.
And by almost any MMO standards- becoming pvp viable in 2 months of fairly casual play is not very extreme.
Of course the problem is until you get to that point you're going to be at an extreme disadvantage, and even when you get there you're still at a disadvantage, but that's par for the course for OWPVP games.
I fully expect to get wrecked by hardcore players that have played the same toon since launch. I'm just concerned with having a fighting chance against most players and it seems within reach for me and probably most players.
The part I quoted said *minimal playtime"
To me 3 hours a day is not minimal.
Anything done 3 hours a day is a lot - 3 hours of exercise, 3 hours of tv, 3 hours of games - that is a lot.
Minimal playtime would be 15-30min daily.
I don't consider 3 hours a day a lot by mmo standards and I doubt anyone in the world plays an MMO for 15 minutes a day.
OK so what is minimal playtime to you?
Certainly at least an hour. I can't imagine playing an MMO for less than hour sessions.
Overwatch or Hearthstone? Sure I can see playing those for 15-30 minutes.
3 hours for an MMO still seems pretty casual to me. I was playing BnS for 8-12 hour sessions there for awhile.
3 hours a day comes out to 8 hours on the weekend and another 5 hours throughout the week for all of you super stable happy life people. Not that unreasonable imo.
If you have only 15-30 minutes to play a day, how can you expect to be "competitive" in any MMO? I am not aware of any MMO that allows for that, besides equalized battlegrounds, but usually there's advantages even there for people that play longer (severe advantages in BnS for example).
And that's just PVP. There are plenty of dungeons in MMOs that take longer than 15-30 minutes to complete.
You and I have hey different standards for amount of time spent in MMOs.
But even by your standard of 1 hour being minimal playtime - no way in hell can a 1 hour a day be competitive in BDO
According to that thread I linked, you could do it in 6 months. Lots less if you afk fish and use workers (you get xp from fishing and selling fish).
But honestly, why would you want to try to be competitive in PVP if you're only playing a bit. You can't do it in any reasonable way in any MMO really- not sure why BDO is considered to have such a steep climb when it's pretty standard hours for competative endgame we're talking about here- for any MMO, let alone a OWPVP focused one.
The "skill" in PvP in this game is how much silver you make per hour, average. Period.
All other skills are secondary to this skill.
Skill in a themepark game would be PvE knowledge, dungeon knowledge, coordination, etc. Skill in Blade and Soul is knowing your class, knowing your opponent's class, etc.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
We are getting forced enhancement to +18 in NA/EU which will cut down the power discrepancy and the time it takes to achieve dramatically. It won't take near the time or money to get +18, which takes away the massive +16 swing from 15 as most regular players will easily achieve +18 while the hardcore players will strive for +20. So in that context yes +20 still has quite an advantage compared to +18, but not near as bad as +15 compared to +20.
In the end still quite a bit of time/grinding but being able to force enhance to +18 takes most of the pain away.
wrong people who spend more does not progress faster.. as u actively have to use it. and also u would still need to use 10 hours + to use those cash shop items fully..
Increased exp gain for a cash shop costume is the VERY DEFINITION OF PROGRESSING FASTER, for crying out loud. O_o
What kind of freakishly impossible definition are you using for "Progressing faster"?
This is how dense these people are that play BDO. When you point these things out they state "Well the shop doesn't sell +15 Kzarka weapons so it's not P2W". In fact if they did sell these things these same fan boys would say "Well it's not anything you can't earn in game".
Is buying an XP pot P2W? No. It is "Pay to not play". The player wants to skip all the work of playing the game to earn the reward, and is willing to pay hard cash to do it.
Is buying an XP pot P2W? No. It is "Pay to not play". The player wants to skip all the work of playing the game to earn the reward, and is willing to pay hard cash to do it.
"I'll pay instead of play."
It is also "Pay to increase the chance of getting better loot". For people who grew up on a subscription based model it feels pretty P2W. I would gladly pay 15 bucks a month so everyone is on an even playing field and the only thing that matters is time spent in game and skill
The thing is in 6 months players will be at +18-20 and as a +15 you get wrecked because of how +16 and above scales (it's way more exponential than below 15). Daum said they will lower the scaling of +16 and above gear, but we don't know to what extent yet. In Korea a +18 has a huge advantage over a +15.
That's the problem with 6 months of minimal playtime, the rest of the players will be at +18 and level 60 still wreck any 55 in +15.
Minimal playtime players always stay behind in BDO because the game has no hard ceiling and top players just keep pulling ahead from the pack over time.
Which is pretty much the reason I'll never bother with doing any serious PvP in this game. It's one of the few things I utterly loathe about BDO, since it ensures that it will never be a level playing field with skill being important, but rather about who's better at mindless grinding 16 hours a day.
On the bright side, MMOs generally suck at providing a balanced playing field anyway. Even the ones that DO have an attainable level cap. So it's nothing new in many ways. xD
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I've masked the names, but I find that scary. Requirement of 6h or more played daily... Now way a 18+ adult with a job can afford playing a video game over 6 hours a day every single day. So that's most likely a guild of jobless social leeches.
But to enjoy this game, you definitely do NOT have to do that. Just have fun and don't care about playtime. And you have many guilds which have absolutely no silly requirements and accept casual (or I'd say, normal) players.
Yeah that's INSANE, how many 18+ can invest 6 hours plus a day in a game? I'll give the trial a shot but there has to be some real no lifers in this game if guilds have those sort of recruitment requirements.
I think the only ones would be senators and congressmen/women since they don't seem to do a damn thing in D.C.
All of the above information proves that players can be competitive with minimal playtime.
That is a load of horseshit - minimal playtime players wont' even get to +15 gear in months played.
A
player that gets to 250mil silver to afford +15 liverto and +15 gear -
that's far from "minimal playtime" - that's someone who plays a lot."
I'm not so sure. People in this thread are saying 6 hrs a day is hardcore. So let's say half that is fairly casual- 3 hours a day.
You'd get 200 hours in about 2 months. I've read guides about getting 4 million in passive income from workers and of course afk fishing is pretty profitable. That's not to mention drops you get. I don't think getting 250 million in two months is that extreme. As long as your making 1 or 2 million a day, you'd get there in 2 months easily.
And by almost any MMO standards- becoming pvp viable in 2 months of fairly casual play is not very extreme.
Of course the problem is until you get to that point you're going to be at an extreme disadvantage, and even when you get there you're still at a disadvantage, but that's par for the course for OWPVP games.
I fully expect to get wrecked by hardcore players that have played the same toon since launch. I'm just concerned with having a fighting chance against most players and it seems within reach for me and probably most players.
The part I quoted said *minimal playtime"
To me 3 hours a day is not minimal.
Anything done 3 hours a day is a lot - 3 hours of exercise, 3 hours of tv, 3 hours of games - that is a lot.
Minimal playtime would be 15-30min daily.
I don't consider 3 hours a day a lot by mmo standards and I doubt anyone in the world plays an MMO for 15 minutes a day.
OK so what is minimal playtime to you?
Certainly at least an hour. I can't imagine playing an MMO for less than hour sessions.
Overwatch or Hearthstone? Sure I can see playing those for 15-30 minutes.
3 hours for an MMO still seems pretty casual to me. I was playing BnS for 8-12 hour sessions there for awhile.
3 hours a day comes out to 8 hours on the weekend and another 5 hours throughout the week for all of you super stable happy life people. Not that unreasonable imo.
If you have only 15-30 minutes to play a day, how can you expect to be "competitive" in any MMO? I am not aware of any MMO that allows for that, besides equalized battlegrounds, but usually there's advantages even there for people that play longer (severe advantages in BnS for example).
And that's just PVP. There are plenty of dungeons in MMOs that take longer than 15-30 minutes to complete.
You and I have hey different standards for amount of time spent in MMOs.
But even by your standard of 1 hour being minimal playtime - no way in hell can a 1 hour a day be competitive in BDO
According to that thread I linked, you could do it in 6 months. Lots less if you afk fish and use workers (you get xp from fishing and selling fish).
But honestly, why would you want to try to be competitive in PVP if you're only playing a bit. You can't do it in any reasonable way in any MMO really- not sure why BDO is considered to have such a steep climb when it's pretty standard hours for competative endgame we're talking about here- for any MMO, let alone a OWPVP focused one.
Actually there is one MMORPG you can achieve competitive PVP levels with little actual time in game, EVE.
Now it takes some time to train up a decent variety of skills, but you can easily do it and reach skill cap in several ship types in short order.
It might be the only modern MMORPG where people like myself who play 2 to 3 hours a day are not at a significant disadvantage which is a key reason for me to stick with it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Been tempted by this game a few times now, it seems like the game has more of a sandbox approach than the majority of theme park games and the classes seem cool. However the only potential problem I have is that I saw a video a few weeks back (can't remember which one) where someone gave their reasons for quitting the game and it basically was because to stay competitively viable, the game became a huge time sink. Is this accurate? I'd say I'm mainly interested in pvp but the older I get, the less time I have to dedicate to stuff, I don't want to start playing only to find that I'll be at a disadvantage just because I can't commit 5 hours a day or whatever to the game. Is this accurate? I've not done much research on how things play out once you reach max level but really and obviously MMO's by nature are time sinks but I don't want to feel that I need to play x amounts of hours per day just to keep on par with everyone else.
A lot don't play the game I paid $100 for founders pack not worthit...
The game itself is based around korean RNG even your characters stats basically random have to pay to change if you can even do this and get more random stats.
Cosmetics are insanely over priced at around $37 USD for a custom costume set. Cosmetics are Delayed Released rather than released all at once like Korea, and other countries have.
The game isn't so much pay 2 win, but its Pay 2 Enjoy with a lot of grind over-all I wouldn't play the game, Plus they still require 3rd party anti cheat software, and have a ton of hackers with nothing to prevent cheating.
If you are looking for just pure PVP There are other options even Dark Fall is better than BDO minus the graphics.
Comments
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
In any case, do you disagree with his example:
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Player 1 (moderate gamer): Budget 250m, grinded a total of 200 hours. Level 55.
Average gear at this bracket: Liverto+15 (70m), OH+15 (20m), Armor+15 (80m), DUO Bares neck/belt (5m), PRI MoS (60m), clean Witch Earrings (18m). Total 253m.
Approximate stats: 137AP/160DP
Player 2 (super hardcore gamer): Budget 1bil, grinded 2000 hours. Level 58. It will take more than 800 hours to get 4x the money the first player made because a lot of very profitable activities are restricted, such as daily boss scrolls.
Average gear at this bracket: Kzarka+15 (150m), Ultimate OH+15 (30m), Ultimate Armor+15 (120m), PRI Ogre (250m), Tree spirit (30m), DUO Witch+MoS (480m). Total 1.06bil.
Approximate stats: 157AP/180DP
DP calculations show the first player will have 32% damage reduction, while the second player will have 36%.
If Player 1 did a skill with base damage of 100% on Player 2, it will do 137 * (1 - 0.36) = 88 damage.
If Player 2 did the same thing to Player 1, it will do 157 * (1 - 0.32) = 107 damage. The difference in damage when the two players hit each other is 20%, despite the ridiculous gear gap.
If both are farming monsters or hitting the same target, Player 2 damage is only higher by (157/137) - 1 = 14.5%.
If Player 1 invests a small sum of 40mil into Ultimate armor, then he would gain the 20 DP difference making the damage difference when the two players hit each other 14.5%, instead of 20%.
The accuracy difference between the two players is 3% given the 3 level difference, which means a small DPS difference of approximately 3%. In PvP this is negligible because the law of large numbers does not meaningfully apply to burst scenarios. In order to kill someone, every hit must land.
I don't think there are many if any players more geared than hypothetical Player 2 right now, so does a damage difference of 14~% really change the narrative from "wow no damage" to "omg that p2w neckbeard 1 shot me"?
Edit: If you add more buffs and food and stuff then the damage difference between the two players actually gets smaller. The reason for this is AP has diminishing returns because it scales linearly. For the same reason if you account for crystals, the DPS gap shrinks too.
If we remove DP difference (since Ultimate armor so cheap) and take account of food, potions, guild buffs, crystals, etc for an additional 40 AP, then the damage difference between the two players become 11.3%. This scenario is actually more realistic given this is what you'll do in a serious fight.
All of the above information proves that players can be competitive with minimal playtime. Of course you'll be at a disadvantage, but 11.3% is nothing to cry about. When this game gets older, since enchanting is diminishing returns, this 11.3% gap will shrink smaller and smaller.
So my question to the community is:
Is gear really that important? Or can most of this perceived gap be accounted for by cognitive biases and Chinese whispers? Is it possible that players who killed you were just simply more skilled at his class?
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I think his equating accuracy to %dps is a bit simplistic, but his basic premise is that you can survive and have a fighting chance against top geared people putting in about 200 hours into the game (not too much by MMO standards to be competitive endgame). Putting aside class imbalances, do you agree or disagree with that?@Jean-Luc_Picard ; There are even pvp guilds like this in ESO -- one of the most casual-friendly games out now. I just stay away from pvp now and enjoy the stuff they're putting out for casuals.
And there's always GW2 where you can do spvp, which is pretty fun and you can drop in whenever you want. Gear does not matter.
All of the above information proves that players can be competitive with minimal playtime.
That is a load of horseshit - minimal playtime players wont' even get to +15 gear in months played.
A player that gets to 250mil silver to afford +15 liverto and +15 gear - that's far from "minimal playtime" - that's someone who plays a lot."
I'm not so sure. People in this thread are saying 6 hrs a day is hardcore. So let's say half that is fairly casual- 3 hours a day.
You'd get 200 hours in about 2 months. I've read guides about getting 4 million in passive income from workers and of course afk fishing is pretty profitable. That's not to mention drops you get. I don't think getting 250 million in two months is that extreme. As long as your making 1 or 2 million a day, you'd get there in 2 months easily.
And by almost any MMO standards- becoming pvp viable in 2 months of fairly casual play is not very extreme.
Of course the problem is until you get to that point you're going to be at an extreme disadvantage, and even when you get there you're still at a disadvantage, but that's par for the course for OWPVP games.
I fully expect to get wrecked by hardcore players that have played the same toon since launch. I'm just concerned with having a fighting chance against most players and it seems within reach for me and probably most players.
The ones that fall into the latter are what the rest of the world calls losers. You know the old saying about living in your parents basement playing games. Yeah.... There's a reason that people say that.
Video games are by definition a pretty solitary hobby to pursue so you're less likely to establish an ideal life if you're an avid gamer simply because you're not interacting with people as often as most people are.
Sure it's possible to do it and I'm glad that some people are able to, but I wouldn't expect it to be the norm for gamers, or anyone with a time-consuming hobby that requires solitude.
MMOs in particular are virtual worlds so they're appealing for people that are not having such a great time in the real world. Not sure why it's so popular to mock those people.
MMOs are also by definition pretty damn time consuming. If you're not prepared to put in some long sessions, I'm not sure why you're playing them considering it takes awhile to get anything meaningful done in any MMO.
Overwatch or Hearthstone? Sure I can see playing those for 15-30 minutes.
3 hours for an MMO still seems pretty casual to me. I was playing BnS for 8-12 hour sessions there for awhile.
3 hours a day comes out to 8 hours on the weekend and another 5 hours throughout the week for all of you super stable happy life people. Not that unreasonable imo.
If you have only 15-30 minutes to play a day, how can you expect to be "competitive" in any MMO? I am not aware of any MMO that allows for that, besides equalized battlegrounds, but usually there's advantages even there for people that play longer (severe advantages in BnS for example).
And that's just PVP. There are plenty of dungeons in MMOs that take longer than 15-30 minutes to complete.
But honestly, why would you want to try to be competitive in PVP if you're only playing a bit. You can't do it in any reasonable way in any MMO really- not sure why BDO is considered to have such a steep climb when it's pretty standard hours for competative endgame we're talking about here- for any MMO, let alone a OWPVP focused one.
All other skills are secondary to this skill.
Skill in a themepark game would be PvE knowledge, dungeon knowledge, coordination, etc. Skill in Blade and Soul is knowing your class, knowing your opponent's class, etc.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
In the end still quite a bit of time/grinding but being able to force enhance to +18 takes most of the pain away.
It's quite comically really.
Is buying an XP pot P2W? No. It is "Pay to not play". The player wants to skip all the work of playing the game to earn the reward, and is willing to pay hard cash to do it.
"I'll pay instead of play."
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
On the bright side, MMOs generally suck at providing a balanced playing field anyway. Even the ones that DO have an attainable level cap. So it's nothing new in many ways. xD
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Now it takes some time to train up a decent variety of skills, but you can easily do it and reach skill cap in several ship types in short order.
It might be the only modern MMORPG where people like myself who play 2 to 3 hours a day are not at a significant disadvantage which is a key reason for me to stick with it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The game itself is based around korean RNG even your characters stats basically random have to pay to change if you can even do this and get more random stats.
Cosmetics are insanely over priced at around $37 USD for a custom costume set.
Cosmetics are Delayed Released rather than released all at once like Korea, and other countries have.
The game isn't so much pay 2 win, but its Pay 2 Enjoy with a lot of grind over-all I wouldn't play the game, Plus they still require 3rd party anti cheat software, and have a ton of hackers with nothing to prevent cheating.
If you are looking for just pure PVP There are other options even Dark Fall is better than BDO minus the graphics.