PvE player's not interested in PvP can jump and kill a low health PvP flagged player without risking anything. It is a sort of reversed griefing. PvE player's grief PvP flagged players.
I don't think those words mean what you think they mean. In the example you gave there was not a PvP player and a PvE player. There were two PvP players. One who was smart and used the flagging system to his advantage and one who was not.
This is also True. I was 50/50 in SWG PVP and PVE. If I didnt want to PVP I didnt jump a Imp just because he was low on health. I did at times flag up and kill said players when I wanted to PVP. So honestly I dont see the problem OP. Most PVPers act like PVEers and wait until you are low to get you killed. Just like in UO where PVPers used the Guard system in Fel to kill off other people. I used that all the time went grey waited until I turned blue again ran to safe zone called guards. Honestly this is why PVP sucks in MMOs because mechanics like this will be used to kill other players. WOW solved this by either you wanted to PVP so got on PVP servers, or you did wintergrasp and were flagged in the zone at all times.
I hate to say it but most PVEers now dont give a shit about jumping you and never will.
PvE player's not interested in PvP can jump and kill a low health PvP flagged player without risking anything. It is a sort of reversed griefing. PvE player's grief PvP flagged players.
I don't think those words mean what you think they mean. In the example you gave there was not a PvP player and a PvE player. There were two PvP players. One who was smart and used the flagging system to his advantage and one who was not.
Hahahahahaha is all i can say to your comment.
Accepting a PvP flag system you can turn on for 2 seconds just so you can kill the PvP player you sneaked up upon unflagged when he had 1 hp, then in the next second when he is dead turn the PvP flag off so he can't attack you back is the system you like.
That tell me you like lame PvP griefing and is scared to enter PvP against opponents that fight you battle ready.
So wait the problem is that you can be attacked as a flagged player by a non-flagged player? That was a part of everyday life in SWG. Going overt (flagged) has consequences...
Yes it was and it was the BEST system for PVP. There were times 10 people would be sitting in a city trying to taunt 2 or 3 of the opposite faction to flag up. Then when 20 people shown up flagged to kick the 10 people's asses they ran. If I didnt feel like PVPing that day I was one of the ass holes sitting LMAO at the people trying to start a fight.
I guess your to young to know about the old UO PvP flag system from after trammel was implemented.
That was the best PvP flag system.
The one you like is a system very good for the one's scared to enter PvP all out. Did you have any consequences upon death in that game? Was it full loot for example?
You know in old UO you had risk vs reward all out (in felucca) and there was consequences in being bad at PvP. I guess it would not have been a game for you, a bit to hardcore.
Oh the irony of this one. Usually the shoe is on the other foot with the pvp player using an exploit to get a pve player to accidentally flag themselves so they can be griefed. If they dare complain about it they met with all sorts of nastiness and told how delicious their tears taste. If you aren't that sort of vermin then you have my sympathy. If you are, then I have only one word. YUM!
Oh the irony of this one. Usually the shoe is on the other foot with the pvp player using an exploit to get a pve player to accidentally flag themselves so they can be griefed. If they dare complain about it they met with all sorts of nastiness and told how delicious their tears taste. If you aren't that sort of vermin then you have my sympathy. If you are, then I have only one word. YUM!
Say alot about you when you like a bad PvP flag system as long as it is the PvE player that do the griefing.
This incredibly bad PvP flag system also informs me how inexperienced these developers are when it comes to PvP. One might think that Richard Garriott that did UO would know abit about PvP but it was actuallt Raph Koster that created the UO PvP flag system and PvP system.
These developers sure could use help from such a legend.
But i guess it is to late, i understood this already when they started with a PvP card combat system, LOL.
It's so amusing you keep insisting those people that would gank a flagged low level players are pve players just because they didn't flag.
Keep living in your imaginary world where the pve players are the bad guys and the pvp players are the good guys.
I don't care who take advantage and grief cause the PvP flag system promotes it.
I am surpriced you don't understand why this thread was being done, cause you obviously don't understand it.
Having a PvP flag system that give ANYONE the opportunity to only flag when he is 100% sure he will get the kill and then 1 second after unflag to avoid any payback is the problem with a lame PvP flag systems as this one.
I can understand it will fit the carebears over at SOTA as a glove.
I don't...umm...I can't...Do you live in a part of the world where you can use the word 'retarded' in a derogatory way? That's pretty wild. I'm from North America, where using it denotes awful bigotry and ignorance.
Anyway, just saying. Actually have no idea what the topic is....was just stunned to see that word used casually...
OMG, this is not a safe space....jesus, this crap is everywhere.
So wait the problem is that you can be attacked as a flagged player by a non-flagged player? That was a part of everyday life in SWG. Going overt (flagged) has consequences...
Yes it was and it was the BEST system for PVP. There were times 10 people would be sitting in a city trying to taunt 2 or 3 of the opposite faction to flag up. Then when 20 people shown up flagged to kick the 10 people's asses they ran. If I didnt feel like PVPing that day I was one of the ass holes sitting LMAO at the people trying to start a fight.
I guess your to young to know about the old UO PvP flag system from after trammel was implemented.
That was the best PvP flag system.
The one you like is a system very good for the one's scared to enter PvP all out. Did you have any consequences upon death in that game? Was it full loot for example?
You know in old UO you had risk vs reward all out (in felucca) and there was consequences in being bad at PvP. I guess it would not have been a game for you, a bit to hardcore.
I guess you dont know who I am. I started MMOS with UO back in 1998. I know how Tram and Fel worked. You know what when Tram was added I was able to run the Shadow Wyrm room myself and it would piss people off. The problem is SWG flagging was by far better because Fel was an Empty world on Catskills and Lake Austin and Tram was overloaded. After a while the ONLY reason I went to fel was for the Champion spawns because I got so tired of people like myself who use to use the Guard Whacking tactic to win. Guess what you can rave all you want about that time. Even when I was a 1 time GM whacking on people with a Hally it was fun but its not a time I would go back to.
O and you know what. I used the guard whacking system to my advantage because I would rather other players loose their gear. BTW that will not work again in todays MMO environment. Just look at AA.
flag for pvp get killed by another player complain it was an "unfair situation"
yep, sounds like standard open world pvp
Flag for PvP, get killed by the unflagged PvE player that turned on PvP unseen behind the PvP player exactly when the PvP player had very low life, 1 shoot him and then instantly turn off the PvP flag to avoid any payback. LOL
That is a bad PvP flag system that only boost griefing by the weak PvE players.
what does it matter 'when' they flagged? you were flagged...you opened yourself up to pvp...anytime, anywhere, any circumstance.ohhhh, not ANY circumstance?? sounds like what those damn pve carebears want.
ive seen over the years in numerous games players flag themselves and do things like jump in front of an npc, so a non-pvp'er accidentally clciks them, it registers as an attack...they get flagged and killed before they realize what is happening. people say they are 'just minding there own business doing a quest/gathering ore, someone ganks them out of no where, no warning, blah blah' - well too bad, its pvp noob! shoe is on the other foot, pvp flagged player gets his shit pushed in by someone that 'surreptitiously' flagged - now the crying begins. its wonderful.
Yes this is truly funny the so called PvP players always do this . They only fight when they have an advantage like when you are at low hp. That the OP is complaining about this is hilarious.
What you and the rest are failing to understand is that when pkr goes for the kill he is vunerable to bring attack in a open pvp environment.
What you have here in SOTA (WoW pve servers) is a situation where the "pver" could be standing right next to the person (flagged pvpr) completely immune to attack. Waiting while talking shit even. Again completely immune.
I'm not sure how experienced you are with PvP but reading this make me believe i am more experienced.
One of the consequences with a PvP system like the one SOTA have is that the PvE player that is unflagged always get the first hit in, maybe even 2 or 3.
In UO (before AoS feb 2003) for example such a system most of the time meant certain death to the PvP guy. Having a PvP flag system that promote this unfair PvP is a bad PvP flag system.
A PvP flag system is just that, a flag system that make me a PvP player among other PvP players. It should never be a system that can be exploited by scared PvE players.
Like I said there are better ways to do it, exploiting these types of systems is always going to be an issue. It certainly gives an aggressor an edge. Then again one on one PVP encounters have never been my concern. I get beat, I win, all the same to me, winning when you're at a disadvantage though, that's the best...grouped or solo...
AS for my experience, no I didn't play UO, (well I did but I bought it the same day I bought DAOC (on recommendation), I liked DAOC a lot more so UO went in the bin. I played DAOC for a year and a half, then moved to SWG when it released, played til NGE. ALl along doing nothing but PVP in both games more or less.
Hence my concern is always on the health of Guild vs Guild or faction based PVP. One on one fights aren't conducive to what the quality of a PVP system is going to be.... Ganking, pking, etc... in my eyes, is for those who don't want fair fights or real fights at all...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
My question to the poster is when a PVE player does attack the PVP player does it not flag them for PVP? Now if they are smart enough to leave after killing the PVP player isn't that just being smart and not sticking around to get Pk'd themselves. There isn't suppose to be a you get a chance to kill them back kind of thing.
But look at the scenario that you posted, if you took the exact opposite would that be acceptable that you can kill a PVE player when they are low health, if it was not flagged based. You have taken the argument that PVE players have been saying over and over and saying it isn't fair if it happens to a PVP player. Funny how that happens.
If you are flagged for PVP and you get killed by anyone you asked for it because you yourself flagged for PVP. This is just whining and saying that I should get to kill them back when no you shouldn't.
Yes this is truly funny the so called PvP players always do this . They only fight when they have an advantage like when you are at low hp. That the OP is complaining about this is hilarious.
What you and the rest are failing to understand is that when pkr goes for the kill he is vunerable to bring attack in a open pvp environment.
What you have here in SOTA (WoW pve servers) is a situation where the "pver" could be standing right next to the person (flagged pvpr) completely immune to attack. Waiting while talking shit even. Again completely immune.
You get it now?
Yes and what is your point? In SWG I was a 50/50 player only PVPed when I really wanted to. You know many times I sat in Moenia and just talked shit to Imp players that were trying to start a PVP fight? A lot of times. I also didnt attack them as many times as I sat there talking shit. What is the problem?
Actually it is PvP players over at the official forums that have raised this as an issue that prevent PvP and to that i agree.
I am not on the official forums. Corrupted moderators and developers isn't something i see as a forum worth participating in.
PvP flagged player got killed by a unflagged PvE player is the problem. Not that hard to understand. If fanboys like you decide not to understand the problem then it is hard to understand, i agree.
I think the game is rather poor in it's current state for PVP... Still the people who are going to have a problem with this are most likely those who advocate for full on FFA pvp. Find a different game is what I say to that, it obviously isn't designed for that.
Secondly if you're going to flag, realize you're flagged, there's no wrong way to be attacked in such a system, you invite those attacks by flagging. The only person not understanding something here is you, and anyone who thinks there's an unfair way to be attacked in a flagged PVP system.... Just like with FFA PVP, you essentially become FFA when you flag. Someone taking an opportunity to attack you is what the system is all about.
Does a person get flagged when they attack someone? IF not that is an issue that should be addressed. IF so... well... kill them
No you don't become FFA... FFA is when anyone can attack anyone at anytime.
The situation here is the furthest thing from FFA. Only one person can be attacked here while the rest of the unflagged world is immune.
Yes this is truly funny the so called PvP players always do this . They only fight when they have an advantage like when you are at low hp. That the OP is complaining about this is hilarious.
What you and the rest are failing to understand is that when pkr goes for the kill he is vunerable to bring attack in a open pvp environment.
What you have here in SOTA (WoW pve servers) is a situation where the "pver" could be standing right next to the person (flagged pvpr) completely immune to attack. Waiting while talking shit even. Again completely immune.
You get it now?
We all get it, don't be ridiculous, flagging systems are nothing new. In the end...It's a one on one encounter, they're never fair.. FFA or not, someone almost always catches the other off guard; while they're busy doing/fighting something else. Die, rez and get over it, in any situation. Don't let a loss bruise your ego. That's all this really is, someone got salty...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
bcbully said: What you and the rest are failing to understand is that when pkr goes for the kill he is vunerable to bring attack in a open pvp environment.
Aren't we talking about "flagging"? As in NOT open PvP? I R confused now....
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
"Interesting to see how SOTA developer's continue to show their incompetence in PvP. Amazing how Richard Garriott ever could create UO but then again he had nothing to do with the PvP system of UO."
The one that nearly killed the game because of everyone quitting?
Actually it is PvP players over at the official forums that have raised this as an issue that prevent PvP and to that i agree.
I am not on the official forums. Corrupted moderators and developers isn't something i see as a forum worth participating in.
PvP flagged player got killed by a unflagged PvE player is the problem. Not that hard to understand. If fanboys like you decide not to understand the problem then it is hard to understand, i agree.
I think the game is rather poor in it's current state for PVP... Still the people who are going to have a problem with this are most likely those who advocate for full on FFA pvp. Find a different game is what I say to that, it obviously isn't designed for that.
Secondly if you're going to flag, realize you're flagged, there's no wrong way to be attacked in such a system, you invite those attacks by flagging. The only person not understanding something here is you, and anyone who thinks there's an unfair way to be attacked in a flagged PVP system.... Just like with FFA PVP, you essentially become FFA when you flag. Someone taking an opportunity to attack you is what the system is all about.
Does a person get flagged when they attack someone? IF not that is an issue that should be addressed. IF so... well... kill them
No you don't become FFA... FFA is when anyone can attack anyone at anytime.
The situation here is the furthest thing from FFA. Only one person can be attacked here while the rest of the unflagged world is immune.
Urhm, if you can be attacked by anyone at anytime (even those unflagged) how in anyway are you not free-for-all?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
I hate to say it but most PVEers now dont give a shit about jumping you and never will.
Accepting a PvP flag system you can turn on for 2 seconds just so you can kill the PvP player you sneaked up upon unflagged when he had 1 hp, then in the next second when he is dead turn the PvP flag off so he can't attack you back is the system you like.
That tell me you like lame PvP griefing and is scared to enter PvP against opponents that fight you battle ready.
That was the best PvP flag system.
The one you like is a system very good for the one's scared to enter PvP all out.
Did you have any consequences upon death in that game?
Was it full loot for example?
You know in old UO you had risk vs reward all out (in felucca) and there was consequences in being bad at PvP. I guess it would not have been a game for you, a bit to hardcore.
LOL
Keep living in your imaginary world where the pve players are the bad guys and the pvp players are the good guys.
These developers sure could use help from such a legend.
But i guess it is to late, i understood this already when they started with a PvP card combat system, LOL.
I am surpriced you don't understand why this thread was being done, cause you obviously don't understand it.
Having a PvP flag system that give ANYONE the opportunity to only flag when he is 100% sure he will get the kill and then 1 second after unflag to avoid any payback is the problem with a lame PvP flag systems as this one.
I can understand it will fit the carebears over at SOTA as a glove.
The micro-aggressions! The micro-aggression! Who will save us?
(Can't live your life in an imaginary bubble of political correctness, no one gives a crap about your feelings, so f***ing grow up.)
Old time SWG showed that MORE people would PvP, when you were not forced to all the time.
And for PvPers, that ought to be a good thing.
O and you know what. I used the guard whacking system to my advantage because I would rather other players loose their gear. BTW that will not work again in todays MMO environment. Just look at AA.
what does it matter 'when' they flagged? you were flagged...you opened yourself up to pvp...anytime, anywhere, any circumstance.ohhhh, not ANY circumstance?? sounds like what those damn pve carebears want.
ive seen over the years in numerous games players flag themselves and do things like jump in front of an npc, so a non-pvp'er accidentally clciks them, it registers as an attack...they get flagged and killed before they realize what is happening.
people say they are 'just minding there own business doing a quest/gathering ore, someone ganks them out of no where, no warning, blah blah' - well too bad, its pvp noob!
shoe is on the other foot, pvp flagged player gets his shit pushed in by someone that 'surreptitiously' flagged - now the crying begins.
its wonderful.
What you have here in SOTA (WoW pve servers) is a situation where the "pver" could be standing right next to the person (flagged pvpr) completely immune to attack. Waiting while talking shit even. Again completely immune.
You get it now?
AS for my experience, no I didn't play UO, (well I did but I bought it the same day I bought DAOC (on recommendation), I liked DAOC a lot more so UO went in the bin. I played DAOC for a year and a half, then moved to SWG when it released, played til NGE. ALl along doing nothing but PVP in both games more or less.
Hence my concern is always on the health of Guild vs Guild or faction based PVP. One on one fights aren't conducive to what the quality of a PVP system is going to be.... Ganking, pking, etc... in my eyes, is for those who don't want fair fights or real fights at all...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
film at 11
But look at the scenario that you posted, if you took the exact opposite would that be acceptable that you can kill a PVE player when they are low health, if it was not flagged based. You have taken the argument that PVE players have been saying over and over and saying it isn't fair if it happens to a PVP player. Funny how that happens.
If you are flagged for PVP and you get killed by anyone you asked for it because you yourself flagged for PVP. This is just whining and saying that I should get to kill them back when no you shouldn't.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
The situation here is the furthest thing from FFA. Only one person can be attacked here while the rest of the unflagged world is immune.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
The one that nearly killed the game because of everyone quitting?
http://mmofallout.com/ultima-online-rampant-pvp-drove-away-70-of-new-players/
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
did you really try to deflect because you have no actual response? seriously?
Glad you educated me, LOL.