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The self declared "friendly" community
Aragon100
Member RarePosts: 2,686
Read a interesting thread over at Steam that as i see it very well describe a good portion of the SOTA community, moderators and developers. Having a same positive attitude towards the game as the average SOTA community member mostly get a fair response but if you criticize the game you get these immature and rude responses from this also self declared "mature" community. And moderators sit around doing nothing. Carebear is a forbidden word over at SOTA forums but accepting as described a bit further down this thread is a okey, such hypocrisy.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/326160/discussions/0/364040961438488717/
Warxnox question was - [quote]
http://steamcommunity.com/app/326160/discussions/0/364040961438488717/
Warxnox question was - [quote]
Are Steam players welcome in this game ? Are we allowed to review this game yet ?
Hi,
After more than one year backing this game and reading the community forum, I would like to know what the developers and community managers of Portalarium think about such statements we can find on the community forum
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/so-mixed-review-on-steam.43832/page-11
Furthermore, I would like to know why such insulting statements are tolerated on the forum, while other terms like "carebear" are forbidden.
Thanks [end quote]
After more than one year backing this game and reading the community forum, I would like to know what the developers and community managers of Portalarium think about such statements we can find on the community forum
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/so-mixed-review-on-steam.43832/page-11
My main point is, reviews should not even be allowed on the game yetBut keep arguing how reviews should be for this game for another few pages
I don't follow the Steam reviews, and check things out for myself.. I find most reviews useless, juvenile, and not really pertinent to any game and I feel sorry for those who do listen to those reviews for their decision on whether a game is good. It is true we need to get our reviews more positive (I am waiting to review it until it is further in, as cmon ppl, its still alpha), but most of these reviewers are not the gamers we are looking for. Write some positive reviews if Steam hurts you so.
As an earlier poster said, I doubt this game targets the typical Steam user. From what I've read, they tend to be the kind of people you tolerate but certainly wouldn't let them sit at the adult table.
IMO, it seems like the majority of Steam users are somewhere in the rage of pre-teen - social misfit - Asperger's.
I wouldn't worry too much about what goes on over there.
Come on. Steam is not going to generate an influx of players. Catering to them is a waste of time.
Face it. This is a fringe game that will attract a fringe group of players. It will happily run for years with a small community who will continue to support the game, whether you like it or not. I don't remember anywhere hearing anyone at Portalarium say they wanted mass-appeal for the game. That should be your first clue.
Their biggest mistake was offering it to the unwashed masses on Steam in the first place. Anyone who thought that was going to turn into a unicorns and rainbows love-fest needs their head examined.
This is a demographics thing. I look around SOTA and its all really mature players. I just dont think this game is for the millennials and newer generations which tend to basically have A.D.D. in almost everything they do. The simple fact is that the vast majority of them expect to play a game like Call of Duty and GTA. They buy SOTA on steam and if they aren't slaying a 10 story high dragon in the first 5 minutes they cry in Steam and move on. By the way, this is what they are like in the workplace too.
Furthermore, I would like to know why such insulting statements are tolerated on the forum, while other terms like "carebear" are forbidden.
Thanks [end quote]
Post edited by Aragon100 on
Comments
I do find all the derogatory comments about Steam users funny given that the current top selling game is a grand 4x strategy game created by Paradox, makers of Europa Universalis andCrusader Kings both of which were historically based 4x strategy games and remain wildly popular on the platform.
Stellaris (btw, Lum gave Stellaris an A++ in a facebook post) is currently the 4th most played game on Steam with 44,000 people playing at noon on a Wednesday afternoon in the East Coast time zone. I can't stress enough how much this game deviates from stereotypes you see in the messages like this oneStellaris is a strategy game that has earned 2,514 reviews and is at 95% positive rating. There are currently 3 strategy games in the Top 10 of current game players in Steam, Stellaris, Football Manager 2016 (a game that's been out for nearly a year and is almost entirely text based, and Civilization V (a 5 and a half year old game). Are these incredibly popular games games that typically appeal to7,000 people are playing a three year old game Europa Universalis IV, 17,000 reviews at 92% positive (another game Lum has praised in the past). Is that an indication of those who move on from a game that doesn't blow them away in its first 5 minutes or are indicative of an audience that cares mostly about CoD or Grand Theft Auto? Total War: Rome 2, another grand strategy game that's several years old has 8,000 current players.These aren't lowest common denominator games. These are incredibly niche and intricate games that aren't designed to appeal to base desires and immediate reward. The Paradox games are an example of just how much Steam can help brilliantly designed niche games, without having to cater to the appeal of the masses. Europa Universalis has sold an estimated 950,000 copies on Steam, Crusader Kings 2 1,250,000 on Steam, Football Manager 2016 800,000 copies on Steam. Its allowed people to experience these great games players may not have otherwise even picked up off the shelf. The stereotypes thrown around sometimes on the SotA forums seem more a product of prejudice and ignorance, which shouldn't be acceptable in a friendly community.
It's not my position to judge the SotA community as a whole, but there is often a lot of self praise there about the quality of the community. It is then a shame to see members of the community resort to broad generalizations and stereotyping such that we saw evidenced in this thread.
It's sad that it necessitated a member of that community coming here to call attention to this sort of activity when the community is so self congratulatory over its openness and inclusiveness.
Don't get me wrong, there will always be bad apples. I'm not casting aspersions on everyone in that community. However, there's a report function and it's hard to comprehend such a community not reporting users stating Steam users have Aspergers Syndrome when fairly minor infractions like using foul language like 's***' is quickly stamped out.
Worse yet, Aspergers, a form of Autism, of all things slips through the cracks of moderation, the devs, and the community. This considering the fact that Portalarium has been open in their support of such causes.
I applaud Starr for addressing this above, but I think there's a more important lesson for the community here. And good on the OP for posting this. Good communities aren't just lip service and in game events. It takes someone calling out this sort of toxic behavior.
Personally, I think it's indefensible to allow someone who uses Autism as a form of shame to continue to post on forums for a game that purports to support those causes. That is, of course, my own opinion. [end quote]
Thanks, its really frustrating to see. The whole idea that a niche game can't or won't be successful on Steam or that Steam users on the whole are incapable of evaluating a game on its merits beyond shooting dudes and stealing cars is demonstrably false. That Dragon, Cancer has glowing reviews (90% positive) and SotA is far far closer to the mainstream than that game is. It does what it does and does it well and people respond to that and it deserves the praise it has received. Its an emotional game where one simply lives these people's lives and its a unique and rewarding experience. It can't possibly be any more the antithesis of Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto and yet, there it is.
Darkest Dungeon, Stardew Valley, Don't Starve, Flame and the Flood, Rogue Legacy, Binding of Isaac, Shovel Knight, Her Story, Brothers, Braid, Papers Please, Stanley Parable, Invisible Inc. the list of niche games that have been financially successful and critically and audience praised is undeniable. Denying that niche games have found a much wider audience and appeal than they did even 5 years ago is undeniable. The evaluation of modern day games as focused on graphics, explosions, blaring guitars, and flash is to either willfully ignore what gaming is today or be ignorant of what gaming is today beyond major E3 press conferences and television commercials.
Sadly, I think part of this is a product of comments Richard himself made that he's since walked back. Just read his PC Gamer interview "Richard Garriott on why 'most game designers really just suck'" and you can see his views expressed there in the quotes from this thread. Its shockingly ill informed and arrogant. Again, he walked back from those comments afterward, but you see the parallels in comments he made in that interview. Heck, go back to the Kickstarter video and notice how he potrays modern games and their focus and notice the negativity. It's not just describing what this game has to offer, it shows borderline disdain for mechanisms in current games like chat and quest mechanics. One can certainly promote their game as a breath of fresh air describing mechanics and present the game with positivity. They didn't go that route here and instead chose to present modern games in a mostly negative light and contrast themselves with them.
Its as if he's completely unaware of the breadth and influence of non-traditional games and their ever expanding popularity.We all have something to learn from others and every game designer has something to learn from every other game designer. There are brilliant games and game designers and dismissing most of them as 'sucking' shows that one feels they've little to learn from others in their industry. We evolve and change based on what we see and hear and read and play and when you feel no one else has anything to teach you, you are admitting that you are willfully stagnant and accepting of the idea that no one has anything left to teach you and that's a shame to hear from the head of the company, even if he's disavowed the comments now.
We've come a long way from the days of big personality designers. Innovation is more frequently found in small but successful projects that pop up on kickstarter or early access. Jonathan Blow may not be Richard Garriott in name recognition, but he's a quality designer nonetheless and the fact that he doesn't receive popular recognition is a testament to an industry as a whole less dominated by personality than substance.
In fact, Portalarium owes something to all these designers that 'suck'. They've paved a road for this game, helping create a path of viability for indie developers that wasn't present before them. Without the burgeoning indie market that Steam and criwdfunding have created, Portalarium would still be seeking the old publisher driven model of development. Instead of gratitude, modern designers were blanketly labeled as inferior, lazy, and without talent.
That's no different than the perception of Steam of being a cesspool with nothing of value, nothing to contribute, no source of good games or good ideas from which we learn and grow and get better.
It's all very sad. [endquote]
If Sota get's reviewed it will not.. reach such a positive reception.
Let the fans stay together and reassure each other that the amount of money they give to the company is enough to keep the game alive for a long time.
It is like a nasty little cult.
The guys over there remind me of the guys on the EQN:Landmark forums. Once they run everyone else away (vast majority) and get what they want, they then turn on the developer for a litany of things only they as individuals see. They demand changes then leave.
Strictly out of curiosity, I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to these projects down the road after they finally go fully live.
Steam suffers a little from the 'Reddit syndrome': it's a popularity contest. Please forgive the caricature, but it's a 'get there quick, get there en masse, don't concern yourself with substance, just thumbs up or thumbs down' race to the bottom.
Kotaku Australia seems to have recently taken note of this as well:
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/05/steam-games-are-now-even-more-susceptible-to-review-bombing/
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/05/theres-a-fight-going-on-in-dooms-steam-reviews/
I'm hoping this can change, but I find myself sympathizing with the anonymous posters quoted from SoTA's community over Steam.
"Wisdom of the crowd" isn't always so wise, depending on certain parameters.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/6943066/#Comment_6943066
[quote] AAHAHAHAHA...AHAHAHAHAHAHA....Ohhh my god!!! my stomach hurts so much from laughing!!! AHAHAHA...Ohh wait!! i get it now OP!!! Yes that's it!! I really am hurting myself by not playing BDO!!! AHAHAHAH..HAHAHAHAHA....AHHH..AHHhh... [endquote]
I am sure that comment added a lot to that thread.
There are loads of quality reviews over at steam. The one's that closest describe this game are the negative one's since many positive one's are biased. They are flavored by developer's asking for good positive reviews.
Didn't you know that these developer's tried to influence the reputation over at steam?
And also i think it is about time you let go your nonsensical grudge against SOTA simply because lord british did not decide to make this a isometric view combat game so that you can enjoy pvp the way you want. you are like a spoiled little brat who keeps screaming for more sugar while the parent keeps saying "NO". Grow up!!
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What do you want to bet Star Citizen has a "final wipe" before it exits "alpha" just like SOTA is doing, with a half-finished game and crap content for what is "complete". I will laugh so hard. I'll make whole posts here in the SC section of "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" just to virtually kick the shills in the teeth, maybe purposely get banned in celebration.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
SotA isn't in a beta state yet. They've decided to completely chuck the alpha/beta labels, because, hey, what are labels like that for in software development, anyway? "Final wipe" is happening in a completely unfinished project ( don't say "no mmo is finished", because you know what I mean ), in July, because they can. Rancid way to treat your backers, but I'm sure someone's still defending it.
edit: oh, I forgot to add, once SC adds "persistence" (which means an in-game way to spend UEC), any transactions in which players buy in-game things from the in-game store with "real UEC" (vs aUEC) will indeed carry over through alpha "wipes". I don't have time for that citation right now, but if you really want it, I will dig it up.
When i see a lame setup i EXPECT fellow gamer's to band together to rid the genre of such garbage acts set out by crap developers,i don't want this type of monetary system in my game ...ever.
I want to buy a game for 60 bucks,if it has a sub fee no prob but it better give me equal value of ongoing content and effort.I NEVER want to see a cash shop ever or the game and developer simply can NOT be trusted.I want no part of a game where i never know what is coming and going from the cash shop and special perks.
The best community ever would not fix this ever,so that is why i detest these kickstarters and cash shop nonsense that Smedley help kickstart as common place in most every game now.People need to give their heads a shake,this is a guy who has tried to WASTE money to fly to the moon and your going to give him FREE money to make a game?You might as well toss Bill gates some money while your at it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
These crowdfunded kickstarter games create nasty communities and deliberately sponsor unequal games. The more real life money pledged the better start you get in the game.
I remember the FFXIV beta forums. It was like watching a glowing fireball of hatred rolling down a hill. Constant 20 page treads full of angry back and fourth recriminations. Where anyone who doesn't share my preferences for what the game should be is the enemy and needs to be destroyed. Regrettably that mentality is pretty par for the course in MMORPG alpha/beta forums.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
And also, if a person spends 10000$ in funding a game, he or she damn well deserves a better in game reward than the one who spent 60$ in funding the game. Common sense.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/326160/discussions/0/364040961438488717/
Aye, but it doesn't alter the mentality. There's an elitist subculture within the game population. There is still plenty of bashing 'millenials' on the forums. I doubt outright insulting the older forum member's ages would be found acceptable, but it certainly seems ok to speak about the younger generations in a negative way.
That thread still continues to lump Steam users together in some hive mind and anti-SotA conspiracy.
users can't delete other user's comments.Steamdb estimates roughly 24,000 Steam accounts have SotA tied to them. There are 242 negative reviews. So 1% of SotA's Steam owners left negative responses and Steam users somehow still need a talking to?
Eh, good on Port for at least attempting to correct the negativity, but it certainly seems it's impossible for some players to not stereotype.