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Blizzard's WOW Mod Talking About Changes to the Game

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  • Kayo83Kayo83 Member UncommonPosts: 399
    Sephiroso said:
    I love how people say WoW is dumbed down. Leveling was always faceroll easy outside of group quests. Heroic dungeons might not be what they used to, but thats because the heroic dungeons of old are now mythic dungeons. And even back in BC when you outgeared heroic dungeons, you could chain pull shit and didn't have to rely on CC. Same thing now, so long as you don't outgear mythic dungeons, you will need to rely on CC and can't chain pull recklessly.

    Not to mention WoW's raids have only gotten more complex. Specially compared to Vanilla lol.
    That is not true at all. It wasnt HUGE on challenge but you couldnt pull more than 2-3 mobs while leveling without risking death. Some classes could do it, like Mages before the Blizzard nerf, and maybe Paladins if they played smart. Now you can mow down 2 or even 3 same level elites by randomly punching your keyboard.

    Also, last I checked you never needed to horribly out gear heroics to chain pull recklessly, maybe if the entire group was newbies who just started doing end game but after a couple of heroic drops, or even welfare epics and you were chain pulling/AoE faceroll the entire time.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,302
    edited May 2016
    Kayo83 said:
    Sephiroso said:
    I love how people say WoW is dumbed down. Leveling was always faceroll easy outside of group quests. Heroic dungeons might not be what they used to, but thats because the heroic dungeons of old are now mythic dungeons. And even back in BC when you outgeared heroic dungeons, you could chain pull shit and didn't have to rely on CC. Same thing now, so long as you don't outgear mythic dungeons, you will need to rely on CC and can't chain pull recklessly.

    Not to mention WoW's raids have only gotten more complex. Specially compared to Vanilla lol.
    That is not true at all. It wasnt HUGE on challenge but you couldnt pull more than 2-3 mobs while leveling without risking death. Some classes could do it, like Mages before the Blizzard nerf, and maybe Paladins if they played smart. Now you can mow down 2 or even 3 same level elites by randomly punching your keyboard.
    Short memory it seems (or lack of skill?). I was routinely doing that, on my Druid, Shaman and Hunter, back in Vanilla.
    Nothing has changed, some classes have always been stronger at solo than others.

    And your elite story is nothing but bullshit, unless you totally overgear them with end game stuff, which doesn't happen during leveling (not even with heirlooms).
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    I bet the problem is they don't have an actual copy of the Vanilla game.  Its not as hard as they are making it.  You load it on a server, do a few updates and turn it on.  Because they are acting like it is really difficult then they are either lying or they just don't have Vanilla version.  Reminds me of when they accidentally erased the last copy of Superbowl 1.  So now there is none.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    The Mod is right about groups of minorities.  I don't mini-max.  But the people who do often complain about content being easy and think it should be more difficult as if everyone out there is a mini-maxer.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,528
    scorpex-x said:
    TheAmir said:
    Except, y'know, they've lost an estimated 5-7 million (someone on this site did the math with the reported revenue since WoW numbers are no longer being reported) since WOD dropped.

    That was HALF their player base, and maybe more.

    "Oh, but the game is old!"

    Yep, but you still don't lose HALF your player base just because "it's old" in a year's time (which was the last time they reported WoW's hard numbers, and those being 5.6 million).

    You know how you lose half your player base that fast? 

    You dumb down your game to the point EVERYONE is bored or pissed.

    You don't update for 12+ months, so EVERYONE runs out of stuff to do.

    You make some farmville Facebook style gameplay MANDATORY to progress.

    You water down class choices until every class is, essentially, the same damned thing (last time I played during MOP, I didn't even NEED to use my pet as a Hunter - I one shotted almost everything, and in dungeons it didn't do enough damage to even MATTER).

    They fucked the game up. Period. Now they're trying to spin it like they've been making great decisions for the past 6 years, when in actuality, it's been a disaster, particularly this last expansion (though CATA and MOP weren't much to brag on, either).
    You dont seem to understand that wow isnt in a vacume, the player losses happened when vast choice arose in the mmorpg market.  If there are only 2 funfairs in the world you will get most people no matter what.

    Wow lost players because many publishers released wow clones trying to pilfer them, the fact wow is still market leader is amazing after such an onslaught.
    I'm sorry but it wasn't competition that lost them that many players so quickly.  The competing MMOs frankly weren't special.  WoD was poorly designed and it lost them a LOT of players.  Blizzard got complacent and have been giving the minimal amount of content to players for quite a while.  The stupid sheep reward them by subbing, but eventually Blizzards strategy even annoyed the sheeple.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,302
    The only stupid one is the one insulting others for enjoy something they do not.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 1,015
    Kayo83 said:
    Sephiroso said:
    I love how people say WoW is dumbed down. Leveling was always faceroll easy outside of group quests. Heroic dungeons might not be what they used to, but thats because the heroic dungeons of old are now mythic dungeons. And even back in BC when you outgeared heroic dungeons, you could chain pull shit and didn't have to rely on CC. Same thing now, so long as you don't outgear mythic dungeons, you will need to rely on CC and can't chain pull recklessly.

    Not to mention WoW's raids have only gotten more complex. Specially compared to Vanilla lol.
    That is not true at all. It wasnt HUGE on challenge but you couldnt pull more than 2-3 mobs while leveling without risking death. Some classes could do it, like Mages before the Blizzard nerf, and maybe Paladins if they played smart. Now you can mow down 2 or even 3 same level elites by randomly punching your keyboard.
    Short memory it seems (or lack of skill?). I was routinely doing that, on my Druid, Shaman and Hunter, back in Vanilla.
    Nothing has changed, some classes have always been stronger at solo than others.

    And your elite story is nothing but bullshit, unless you totally overgear them with end game stuff, which doesn't happen during leveling (not even with heirlooms).
    yeah you're either full of shit or you where already a veteran when WoW was released.
    from what i can remember i encountered the following while leveling: 1 minute bleeds,debuffs that nerfed casting,melee etc. mobs hiding behind stuff only to jump you once you ran past it, and lots of other crap that was designed to make you fail basically. all of this was removed eventually.  

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited May 2016
    gervaise1 said:
    Sephiroso said:
    gervaise1 said:



    What experience? Reading "Java for the Dummies" and typing the examples?

    16 weeks is 4 months... quite a lot of time to make changes in software. Or you have the most inefficient team of developers on earth. Which I don't think is Blizzard's case.

    The changes we are talking about here is not a complete graphic overhaul of the game or a total change of the rules, or similar drastic changes. It's fine tuning based on feedback.
    Coding sure.

    Think of an appeal against an NFL decision. Should be really quick yes? And yet they are far from quick.

    First what changes.  There are probably millions of comments to assess - and rank. And that is only the start.

    So even minor tweaks will take time - not to code but to decide and assess: just to read the comments and decide which ones should be actioned is time consuming; then how to address the comments, do the proposed changes go against other comments, will they have other consequences and so on. Coding - easy. Dealing with huge volumes of data though takes time.

    Even if there are "only" some tens of thousands and each comment gets a whole 1 minute to read, assess, assign to a category and comment on it will take a small team - doing the same thing again and again and again - weeks to work them. And that is just for the first pass. What medical staff call triage. Pick some numbers. Allocate yourself a team and allow a whole 1 minute for each feedback. Maybe 500 per person per day? Team of ten maybe 25k in a week. In 10 weeks - with no holidays - 250k? Assuming they still have their wits about them.

    And then - depending on how good the 1 minute "read, assess, assign, comment on" has been a more detailed assessment will be needed. And then some decisions as to what might be done made. 

    Before starting though all the possible changes will have to be weighed against the work that has been done during the year or maybe over two that Blizzard have spent designing the game. That will be ground zero against which any changes will be assessed. 

    (And yes I have experience - on multiple continents - being good like - of managing some serious software projects. And I do not disagree in the slightest that you could code some changes - you obviously have the experience to know you can :) the whole process takes time. And there are techniques to manage how you assess feedback as well - which is the key to deciding what changes. Up to and including ignoring pretty much all of it. After all there is budget stuff involved - people going through feedback cost money - another consideration. 
    Post edited by gervaise1 on
  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
    Problem with WOW is before anything GREED and they understand now better than ever that GREED is hurting them more than if they actually reinvested the funds required to keep and expand further into the market, but they wanted something else, they wanted to pursue different markets, different project with the $ that was coming from WOW, but luckily as with most sub based MMO's is they have to be on a certain standard, to show a certain quality to justify that sub vs the many many F2P alternative options consumers have today for entertainment, especially outside of gaming.

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  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,211
    Kopogero said:
    Problem with WOW is before anything GREED and they understand now better than ever that GREED is hurting them more than if they actually reinvested the funds required to keep and expand further into the market, but they wanted something else, they wanted to pursue different markets, different project with the $ that was coming from WOW, but luckily as with most sub based MMO's is they have to be on a certain standard, to show a certain quality to justify that sub vs the many many F2P alternative options consumers have today for entertainment, especially outside of gaming.

    GREED is what makes businesses work.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,298
    Horusra said:
    Kopogero said:
    Problem with WOW is before anything GREED and they understand now better than ever that GREED is hurting them more than if they actually reinvested the funds required to keep and expand further into the market, but they wanted something else, they wanted to pursue different markets, different project with the $ that was coming from WOW, but luckily as with most sub based MMO's is they have to be on a certain standard, to show a certain quality to justify that sub vs the many many F2P alternative options consumers have today for entertainment, especially outside of gaming.

    GREED is what makes businesses work.
    Lol, thats pretty fucked up.

    Greed has destroyed a lot more businesses than it ever created.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

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