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It's May 3rd! Where is the Kickstarter?

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  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,749
    I don't understand everyone's fascination with PvP at all.  Should I point out the Division, or BDO, or any number of the asshattery related things that PvP brings to it?  Lets go back to poisoned chests in UO.  3 months may not seem like a long time, but it's silly.  We've reached the point where it's silly.  How many bugs you think dev's find and squelch in the 3 months leading up to launch?  How many people are gunna have taken advantage of those bugs?  Think about all the gold/items/xp that can be had.... and then... 3 months early of all those goodies.

    Yea no thanks.
  • VucarVucar Member UncommonPosts: 311
    Ikeda said:
    I don't understand everyone's fascination with PvP at all.  Should I point out the Division, or BDO, or any number of the asshattery related things that PvP brings to it?  Lets go back to poisoned chests in UO.  3 months may not seem like a long time, but it's silly.  We've reached the point where it's silly.  How many bugs you think dev's find and squelch in the 3 months leading up to launch?  How many people are gunna have taken advantage of those bugs?  Think about all the gold/items/xp that can be had.... and then... 3 months early of all those goodies.

    Yea no thanks.
    Its a closed economy.

    There are no endless spawns of broken mobs to farm for 3 months and store gold in your safe-zone bank. 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,366
    I can't believe that folks are actually trying to argue that a 3 month head start in a full loot open world PvP game isn't a huge advantage...

     O.o  O.o O.o

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  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,749
    Vucar said:
    Its a closed economy.

    There are no endless spawns of broken mobs to farm for 3 months and store gold in your safe-zone bank. 
    Just close up shop... your naivete is showing.

    Any game that can have cheating WILL have cheating.  The best a dev can do is limit the cheating.  Giving a 3 month headstart.... that's not limiting.  It is enabling.  Please see previous games.  Then add Neverwinter, WoW, Planetside 2, Rift, Wildstar, and a bunch of other games that had rampant issues at launch that cheaters took advantage of to propel them higher in the game.
  • drakeordanskadrakeordanska Member UncommonPosts: 240
    Yanocchi said:
    User836 said:

    I haven't backed but the way I see it, those who start early (assuming for the sake of argument that the game will some day reach that stage) will be the targets for a whole bunch of PvPers for reasons of pride, envy and challengeseeking. Not just combat-type PvP but economically, socially and any other way players can compete. Who are you going to gun for if you're truly a competitive player if not the biggest, baddest target you can find?

    I'm afraid the ones who purchase their king titles will be dethroned in the shortest time the game mechanics allow. Likewise, the headstarted merchants will see their goods stolen and their businesses outcompeted, the noble families will be bullied and brought to the gutter.. all because they start the game with big targets painted on their backs. They will be the content, the substitute for raid bosses in other games.

    Or so i would guess.


    The opposite could happen in the case of clans and guilds who are well-organized when they arrive to CoE. The three month headstart might give them the time to learn the ropes and do all the necessary preparations to start blackmailing or bossing newcomers. The three month headstart may give them the time to get some gear and explore the world to find a lucrative place for gathering resources. After the headstart they could have a large group of guild members with adequate gear staying in that place to collect taxes from all the newcomers who visit that area.

    That lucrative place will only be so until the resources run out there
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    I can't believe that folks are actually trying to argue that a 3 month head start in a full loot open world PvP game isn't a huge advantage...

     O.o  O.o O.o
    Who said it wasn't an advantage? Anyone who is established in a game has an "advantage" over the guy who isn't. It's not that there is no advantage in it, it's that it's par for the course for a persistent game. Obviously some aren't that bothered by it, it certainly wouldn't/doesn't bother me. I wouldn't buy the game until it's been out a few months anyway. AS with any other MMORPG I play. It's never been an issue in the past. Why would it be now?

    You're acting as though it's some game breaking issue, if that were the case no game would survive especially something like EVE. IF this game is to live or die it's not going to be this issue that causes it's demise.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Ikeda said:
    Vucar said:
    Its a closed economy.

    There are no endless spawns of broken mobs to farm for 3 months and store gold in your safe-zone bank. 
    Just close up shop... your naivete is showing.

    Any game that can have cheating WILL have cheating.  The best a dev can do is limit the cheating.  Giving a 3 month headstart.... that's not limiting.  It is enabling.  Please see previous games.  Then add Neverwinter, WoW, Planetside 2, Rift, Wildstar, and a bunch of other games that had rampant issues at launch that cheaters took advantage of to propel them higher in the game.
    All characters die ... permanently.  You do understand that, right?
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    I can't believe that folks are actually trying to argue that a 3 month head start in a full loot open world PvP game isn't a huge advantage...

     O.o  O.o O.o
    There's no argument for this in a game with permanent character death.  Any advantage gained would be short lived in the scope of the game.  Sorry, but there's other way to look at it if you understand the intended design.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,917
    I thought their relearning the old skills is accelerated in their next life.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    I thought their relearning the old skills is accelerated in their next life.
    It is.  So what?

    I don't see how this will matter in the long run.  New people will continue to join the game after it has launched.  Should they feel shafted as well?  Can nobody ever play the game except the people who were there at launch?  Please.  Your character DIEs.  Three months is not a big deal.  It just isn't.  The advantage is that those people get to play the game earlier than everyone else and help shape the initial world.  And they're paying for that privilege.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,917
    edited May 2016
    I don't think three months is a big deal either but permadeath is not a total start over as it seems to be implied.  There are players who have the time to put 20 hours a day into the game and that adds up over time which is why most games put in caps of some sort.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    edited May 2016
    I don't think three months is a big deal either but permadeath is not a total start over as it seems to be implied.  There are players who have the time to put 20 hours a day into the game and that adds up over time which is why most games put in caps of some sort.
    All power to them.  If they want to put 20 hours a day into the game, I hope they get more out of it than people who put in 4 hours a week.
  • Deffcon_1Deffcon_1 Member UncommonPosts: 164
    I can't believe that folks are actually trying to argue that a 3 month head start in a full loot open world PvP game isn't a huge advantage...

     O.o  O.o O.o
    In a game that has no levels, no gold farming and has a deep player skill requirement a 3 month head start isnt a big deal. Also, seeing as the game isnt gear centric like every other MMO having extra time isnt that huge deal. Lets also remember this isnt a full loot game. You wont be able to dry loot everyone you kill. The only way to dry loot someone is if they permadie, which will be incredibly(almost never) rare during PvP.
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    edited May 2016
    Deffcon_1 said:
    I can't believe that folks are actually trying to argue that a 3 month head start in a full loot open world PvP game isn't a huge advantage...

     O.o  O.o O.o
    In a game that has no levels, no gold farming and has a deep player skill requirement a 3 month head start isnt a big deal. Also, seeing as the game isnt gear centric like every other MMO having extra time isnt that huge deal. Lets also remember this isnt a full loot game. You wont be able to dry loot everyone you kill. The only way to dry loot someone is if they permadie, which will be incredibly(almost never) rare during PvP.
    I think the problem here is that Chronicles of Elyria is far more complex than the average MMO and people who aren't taking the time to read all the developer journals are making assumptions that don't apply to the game as advertised thus far.
  • VucarVucar Member UncommonPosts: 311
    Ikeda said:
    Vucar said:
    Its a closed economy.

    There are no endless spawns of broken mobs to farm for 3 months and store gold in your safe-zone bank. 
    Just close up shop... your naivete is showing.

    Any game that can have cheating WILL have cheating.  The best a dev can do is limit the cheating.  Giving a 3 month headstart.... that's not limiting.  It is enabling.  Please see previous games.  Then add Neverwinter, WoW, Planetside 2, Rift, Wildstar, and a bunch of other games that had rampant issues at launch that cheaters took advantage of to propel them higher in the game.
    Really? Planetside 2? Thanks for proving my point and confirming you have no idea what you're talking about.

    I was killing BR100s in 1v1s on my first day of Planetside 2, long after it had released and people had finished unlocking their setups. 

    I'll cite a sandbox full loot pvp mmo i'm guessing you've never played: Darkfall. Several years into Darkfall, I joined a clan as a recruit -- bottom tier soldier. I rose through the ranks quickly and became a loyal and known member. The leader of the clan had to leave for real life reasons and so he handed leadership of the clan, and all of its assets, over to me. I became Supreme General of the clan and owned a city and a hamlet.

    If i wanted to, i could sold both holdings for personal gain, taken everything out of the clan bank and walked away. Years of work building stockpiles and resources all done by other people -- I come in late, and i could have taken it all. I wasn't that kind of person though.

    But wow that sounds really familiar, like someone coming in after a headstart and gaining tangible rewards, taken from the efforts of people playing long before him. 

    Maybe its impossible for you to succeed in a world you're late to joining, but not for the rest of us.

    "naivete" lol...
  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,616
    I am so sick of Kickstarter feel like I lose my money everytime and I swore I wouldnt do it again and damn if I didnt do it again. Im in at $175.  I am anti pk and just want a crafting headstart to get a crafting consortium up and running. I made bank in SWG being the first master architect on my server. I know how important master crafters are to a player built world.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,050
    edited May 2016
    I thought their relearning the old skills is accelerated in their next life.
    It is which also allows them to learn more skill or become better than in their previous live, people keep saying but there's permadeath...but so what even in "perma death" they are bringing something with them to the next life.

    Frankly it's not true permadeath what will be happening is like true reincarnation in ddo where each live can give you certain boost or benefits for the next life.

    Also and please correct me if I am wrong but you will be able to inherit your previous stuff.

    Vucar said:
    ...snip..
    Really? Planetside 2? Thanks for proving my point and confirming you have no idea what you're talking about.

    I was killing BR100s in 1v1s on my first day of Planetside 2, long after it had released and people had finished unlocking their setups. 

    I'll cite a sandbox full loot pvp mmo i'm guessing you've never played: Darkfall. Several years into Darkfall, I joined a clan as a recruit -- bottom tier soldier. I rose through the ranks quickly and became a loyal and known member. The leader of the clan had to leave for real life reasons and so he handed leadership of the clan, and all of its assets, over to me. I became Supreme General of the clan and owned a city and a hamlet.

    If i wanted to, i could sold both holdings for personal gain, taken everything out of the clan bank and walked away. Years of work building stockpiles and resources all done by other people -- I come in late, and i could have taken it all. I wasn't that kind of person though.

    But wow that sounds really familiar, like someone coming in after a headstart and gaining tangible rewards, taken from the efforts of people playing long before him. 

    Maybe its impossible for you to succeed in a world you're late to joining, but not for the rest of us.

    "naivete" lol...
    Ridiculous example. You didn't succeed at anything when it comes to building your own guild or "hamlet"/town you joined an existing one.

    Anyone can do what you did and in any game period.

    A huge guild that has a 3 month headstart that wants to establish its own town/village/kingdom, mercenary group, trading consortium will have a huge advantage due to a 3 month head start over a huge guild filled with people of equal skill that didn't have this head start.

    Trying to say this isn't so is naive.

    Distopia for example isn't trying to blow smoke up anyone behind and knows it will be an advantage even if he thinks it not such a big deal, you on the other hand are trying to tell us it will have no impact...lol


    Personally I think they made the head start far too big or should have put it at a lower price point like say 60$ so it's more accessible and they could have put alpha beta access at higher tiers

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

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  • VucarVucar Member UncommonPosts: 311
    Asm0deus said:
    Ridiculous example. You didn't succeed at anything when it comes to building your own guild or "hamlet"/town you joined an existing one.

    Anyone can do what you did and in any game period.

    A huge guild that has a 3 month headstart that wants to establish its own town/village/kingdom, mercenary group, trading consortium will have a huge advantage due to a 3 month head start over a huge guild filled with people of equal skill that didn't have this head start.

    The extent to which this went over your head is so amazing i'm almost embarrassed for you. Yes -- you're exactly right. Anyone can do what I did in any game period, including CoE after launch. That I didn't succeed at anything , walked in late, and joined an existing group is the entire point of my postSo thank you for pointing it out in plain speech.

    "
    A huge guild that has a 3 month headstart that wants to establish its own town/village/kingdom, mercenary group, trading consortium will have a huge advantage due to a 3 month head start over a huge guild filled with people of equal skill that didn't have this head start." 

    Lets say headstart is over. This huge guild with 3 months of headstarter has built up a town. I, Vucar, having just joined a few weeks after launch, join this town and become an upstanding citizen. I fight to defend the town and prove to be loyal. The leader of the town, himself part of the 3 month headstart, has to quit the game for real life reasons. He hands the ownership of the town -- the town i did not build, and constructed in the headstart i was not part of -- entirely over to me. He officially appoints me as Mayor.

    At this point, i have officially negated all missed-out-progress towards townbuilding that I did not do when i missed out on the headstart.

    And that's just one example of how you could overcome a headstart. I expect through city-conquering and sieges, we'll see a lot more headstart-built estates and kingdoms changing hands into better skilled, better organized groups that won't manifest until after the headstart. 

    Regarding the impact of headstart: my original point was arguing against the "p2w" crying I keep hearing about. In a sandbox with finite resources, a headstart can be overcome in a myriad different ways similar to those i've just listed.

    Nothing you produce in the headstarter has any insurance policy on it -- you can lose it all. 
  • MikePaladinMikePaladin Member UncommonPosts: 592
    Stop Complaining for Head Start better look and you Asian Junk BDO you all prize so much . Discussion closed .
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,050
    edited May 2016
    Vucar said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Ridiculous example. You didn't succeed at anything when it comes to building your own guild or "hamlet"/town you joined an existing one.

    Anyone can do what you did and in any game period.

    A huge guild that has a 3 month headstart that wants to establish its own town/village/kingdom, mercenary group, trading consortium will have a huge advantage due to a 3 month head start over a huge guild filled with people of equal skill that didn't have this head start.

    The extent to which this went over your head is so amazing i'm almost embarrassed for you. Yes -- you're exactly right. Anyone can do what I did in any game period, including CoE after launch. That I didn't succeed at anything , walked in late, and joined an existing group is the entire point of my postSo thank you for pointing it out in plain speech.

    "
    A huge guild that has a 3 month headstart that wants to establish its own town/village/kingdom, mercenary group, trading consortium will have a huge advantage due to a 3 month head start over a huge guild filled with people of equal skill that didn't have this head start." 

    Lets say headstart is over. This huge guild with 3 months of headstarter has built up a town. I, Vucar, having just joined a few weeks after launch, join this town and become an upstanding citizen. I fight to defend the town and prove to be loyal. The leader of the town, himself part of the 3 month headstart, has to quit the game for real life reasons. He hands the ownership of the town -- the town i did not build, and constructed in the headstart i was not part of -- entirely over to me. He officially appoints me as Mayor.

    At this point, i have officially negated all missed-out-progress towards townbuilding that I did not do when i missed out on the headstart.

    And that's just one example of how you could overcome a headstart. I expect through city-conquering and sieges, we'll see a lot more headstart-built estates and kingdoms changing hands into better skilled, better organized groups that won't manifest until after the headstart. 

    Regarding the impact of headstart: my original point was arguing against the "p2w" crying I keep hearing about. In a sandbox with finite resources, a headstart can be overcome in a myriad different ways similar to those i've just listed.

    Nothing you produce in the headstarter has any insurance policy on it -- you can lose it all. 
    I think your the one missing the point, the only person you should be embarrassed about is yourself there sonny.

    You keep spouting nonsense examples that miss the point entirely in your quest to be right. 

    Keep it apples to apples not apples to oranges.

    Lastly but not least I have never used the term p2w or that this doomed the game. Only that it is a huge advantage, and it is.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,385
    In todays gaming it seems nothing is P2W. You might as well sell a big crown and a title "The King". And still some people would say that's not pay to win. :D

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  • lunawisplunawisp Member UncommonPosts: 184
    People are just arguing for the sake of it. CoE is not for everyone and it's not pretending to be. Those that don't like the game or the funding model, should move on to the next one. Why sit here complaining endlessly? Soulbound Studios aren't going to change their plans at the whim of a few people on a gaming site forum.

    Personally I've backed it because I'm excited to see what looks like a breath of fresh air come to fruition. If I didn't like the sound of it, I'd have ignored it...I certainly wouldn't be setting here typing out post after post after post saying how unfair life is...
    lunawisp was my peacebringer in City of Heroes. She lives on, in memory, as my gaming id
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,848
    Scot said:
    In todays gaming it seems nothing is P2W. You might as well sell a big crown and a title "The King". And still some people would say that's not pay to win. :D
    Er....well they would be correct, you would have won nothing.

    Now if they actually sold the rulership rights of a King (collect taxes, command armies, unlimited wenches) ;)  you might have an example of true P2W, but most "advantages" sold in games today are more like your analogy.


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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,848
    Distopia said:
    I can't believe that folks are actually trying to argue that a 3 month head start in a full loot open world PvP game isn't a huge advantage...

     O.o  O.o O.o
    Who said it wasn't an advantage? Anyone who is established in a game has an "advantage" over the guy who isn't. It's not that there is no advantage in it, it's that it's par for the course for a persistent game. Obviously some aren't that bothered by it, it certainly wouldn't/doesn't bother me. I wouldn't buy the game until it's been out a few months anyway. AS with any other MMORPG I play. It's never been an issue in the past. Why would it be now?

    You're acting as though it's some game breaking issue, if that were the case no game would survive especially something like EVE. IF this game is to live or die it's not going to be this issue that causes it's demise.
    EVE is the living proof that early head starts do not set the pace over the long term

    I've watched countless new players join, build new empires only to see them swept away and the cycle start again.

    Even an "unbeatable" super power such as Goons can be decimated as the recent WWBee proved.

    So sure, early starters will have an advantage but if the game is designed properly it will be neither insurmountable or eternal.

    The greater limitation will come from players who enter the game later with a mindset of "no one  can win."  

    Others will come in at the same time and prove them wrong. It's just the way of these things.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • jozephjozeph Member UncommonPosts: 47
    Scot said:
    In todays gaming it seems nothing is P2W. You might as well sell a big crown and a title "The King". And still some people would say that's not pay to win. :D
    How is being the king, winning the game? It doesn't give you godlike powers. It doesn't even make you stronger.

    In other games the king would be an NPC. In this game kings, merchants, bankers, guards, ... will all be players. Which should make this game a lot less static. Someone has to be the first kings. The two players backing the campaign for $10K are more than welcome to it. They are helping a lot to make this game being made. I'm looking forward to finding out how long they will be able to hold on to their crown at launch. Only someone very good at the game of thrones will be able to stay in power.
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