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EVE Online has No Problem Getting New Players, but Retaining them is an Issue

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  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,431
    Eve is a fun game, but is it new player friendly? Absolutely not. It does have one of the most toxic communities of any MMO I've ever played.

  • MyrradahMyrradah Member UncommonPosts: 86

    The reasons for EVE's inability to retain players are in your face all over web, and have been repeated time and time again ad nauseum for the past decade, since the game's initial release.  Without going into detail to avoid offending its very loyal player base, it's not only a niche OWPvP audience, it's a very unforgiving and toxic one at that, to put it mildly.   I find it very hard to believe that the obvious has people in high places at EVE Headquarters scratching their heads in bewilderment.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why this game can't retain players.  It's a cesspool of the worst in niche gaming, and the resultant community it breeds, all piled into one very neatly packaged game.
    I can agree, there are elements in Eve that are just annoying (Imperium for instance) and the scammers etc. But its like that in the real world as well. Partly why i like it. You have to read what you are accepting and be sure its right. They have things in game now that make it really easy to see. Just dont be click happy.

    If im flying around and im solo and I kill some new player, I dont get all stupid in local. I actually feel dirty...
    I usually give him the cost of his ship plus 50% to help make up for the loss. But thats me. What i can say is i am not alone in this, many of us do it.

    Just like any MMO, you need to find the right group. I had a start up Corp to teach new people Eve. I couldnt get enough people in the corp to make it worth my efforts. I had and still have guides, videos, training sessions weekly etc etc. But people wanted to get right into the massive fights and be effective. I even gave free T1 ships and fittings so you never had to worry about ships etc. (I have over 120 Bil though and could afford that)

    While you can do that, you are taking the long road to learning to play Eve and will likely get burnt out.

    My reply is simply summed up as - find the right group for where you are. Just like any MMO, learn to walk before running. For Alliance fights etc, it takes all of 3 weeks for you to be useful in a ship, but the experience that you need to fly the ship is the component that is missing - not the Skill points.
  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Kyleran said:
    "After about 3 months you can be on par with someone who has 200 mil SP in a Frigate, Dessie, Cruisers etc. not a BB and higher yet, you need a little more time. "

    Yeah...sounds great....3 months huh?


    You play EVE across years, not months, definitely a title for the more patient gamer looking for a universe to make a name in.
    You play it across years if you have nothing else to do and are too dumb to notice all the other superior games out there.....period.

    "Eve is a fun game, but is it new player friendly? Absolutely not. It does have one of the most toxic communities of any MMO I've ever played. "

    Plain and simple. Stop spreading the disease.

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096

    Emotions instead of skills may be the answer [Article originally appeared over at Destructoid andhttp://massivelyop.com/2016/05/01/eve-evolved-fixing-the-new-player-experience-again/ ]

    "It's super depressing," Andie Nordgren said with a sort of semi-defeated smile. She's the executive producer of EVE Online, one of the deepest and most complex sandbox video games in existence, and she's reacting to a key statistic that developer CCP shared at this year's EVE Fanfest: In the past year, more than 1.5 million new players signed up to try EVE Online; the overwhelming majority of them permanently quit after two hours.

    Of course Nordgren feels that way. How could she not feel that way? She's steering the ship that has created one of the biggest living science fiction universes of all time, a game that tens of thousands of people are logged into at any given minute. There's obvious appeal for anyone willing to see it through, but that's the exact issue -- so, so many would rather give up than dig deeper.

    In my third Fanfest, it's a problem that has come up before. Every year, in fact. This is the first time that CCP has quantified it, though. The new player experience is something the developer is continually working on, and that's assurance we get every single year.

    One of the oddest moments of the weekend concerned this very topic. CCP took some time out of the EVE Online keynote to address the new player experience to its install-base who cares enough about the game to trek to Iceland in celebration of it. It's important to everyone; those EVE veterans stand to hypothetically see their corporations and alliances grow with an influx of new players.

    How to retain new EVE Online players? The short of it is that CCP will try to structure the initial experience to tell stories and to form an emotional connection. It wants players to care about the game before they're concerned with learning all of its systems.

    How that will work remains to be seen. In our interview, Nordgren admitted it's a very fresh perspective, one that's far from fully formed. "We're really early stage and that's kind of the reason (CCP Ghost) was talking more conceptually about how we're thinking and how we’re approaching it. What I really want is that you don't feel like it's a tutorial, but that you feel that you just started playing the game," she said.

    Nordgren continued "This is how I want to experience games today. I don't necessarily have time to first learn and then to play. I want to learn by playing. I want to take some meaningful actions while I'm learning that feel like they have something to do with my progression. We're going to try to build an experience where you're involved and it's clear to you how you're making progress while we gradually reveal more of the complexity of the game. But it feels like you're playing, not like you're learning."

    As for the "It's super depressing" quote she started with? Nordgren supplemented it with an understanding that EVE isn't necessarily for everyone, and even the people who appreciate it might not have a life-long relationship with it. 

    "I know that we have a hobby-type experience and that's also something that not everyone is into. I think that we'll always have a lot of people who kind of go 'Oh, that looks cool!' and then they get into it and are like 'Ehhh, okay that wasn’t for me,'" she said. "You're never going to sign everyone up, right? But, I think we have a chance to have more people at least enjoy some more time in New Eden before they drop out. Then, of course, some of those will actually discover EVE as a hobby and as a passion. I think that's the exchange. If we can give you a more powerful experience in the beginning, it's not necessarily that everyone has to stick around forever. I think it's a fair trade that if we can give you a better experience, you might stick around for more time. You're happy, we're happy, and then you may or may not stay as an EVE hobbyist, if you will."




    The main reason I quit eve was that it is pay 2 win. Not only is it pay 2 win, but the people who have been there longer are always better off. I mean some people roll with 5-10 accounts at once, its bad. They always say 10 of thousands of play, I really doubt it, more like 1000-5000 with a bunch of account. 
  • MyrradahMyrradah Member UncommonPosts: 86
    Velifax said:
    PROS

    I loved the setbacks, or rather avoiding them, as I haven't really lost more than 25% of my total ISK (got stupid with a gank).
    I loved the research required, still spend a third of my game time learning.
    I love the combat and gameplay, I've got plenty of action games elsewhere, this game really scratches an itch for me.

    NEUTRALS
    Walking in Stations was actually pretty decent, imo. Lots of low hanging fruit here but I think it added a lot. 
    As noted by OP, the PVE was a tad stale; I'd have been happy for years but I can see several low hanging opportunities that would majorly spice it up.
    The economy was pretty awesome; maybe too awesome actually! I would actually prefer to dumb it down a bit, something like a town management game or an economic simulator like the X games would be better for me. If I am studying price index or market share nonsense, I'd rather be making real money :)

    CONS
    Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of PVP in any medium; market, combat, or meta.
    I have no intention of paying more than $15 a month, and didn't like how much value you got for additional accounts.
    The OP also mentions that Gates segregate gameplay into little room, and this bothered me as well. I play two other space games... Make that four... All of which feature vast tracts of space. It is key to me.
    The way I play didn't generate enough risk, surprisingly. The amount of research I enjoy made pve too easy, I suspect I'd prefer if low sec was the highest security space available. I'd need roaming bands of 
    npcs.
    I don't do the "people" thing, and much of the game pushes you toward that.

    Ultimately it'd be my only subscription MMO, if I still played games.

    As a long time player of Eve - Since Beta, I wouldnt mind if they made Hi sec as secure place where you couldnt attack another person unless agreed to a dual.

    The police dont react fast enough or bad AI and so long as the risk vs reward is there you will always find a gank squad. No need to fly blingy ships in hi sec whatsoever. Even for Incursions - where you can mkae 100+ mil a day in a base battleship.

    But yea, I wouldnt be opposed to making hi sec a pvp free zone and it may help the populace.

    Sure population locations may shift, but there will always be opportunity to make more money on the fringes - just like any other MMO and people will balance it out eventually.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,666
    edited July 2016
    Rhoklaw said:
    Eve is a fun game, but is it new player friendly? Absolutely not. It does have one of the most toxic communities of any MMO I've ever played.
    What other MMO has deafult global help chat channel that is literally packed with people as well as official volunteers to answer any newcomer's questions?
    Heck, you do not even need to use Help channel, you can just ask in NPC corp chat and you will be helped. 

    What other MMO has as extensive and active player guild like EVE University and alike?

    EVE got the most helpful community in any MMO, bar none.
  • MyrradahMyrradah Member UncommonPosts: 86
    "After about 3 months you can be on par with someone who has 200 mil SP in a Frigate, Dessie, Cruisers etc. not a BB and higher yet, you need a little more time. "

    Yeah...sounds great....3 months huh?


    No worst than any other MMO. But definitely not the "never" the person stated.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,728
    I've always been curious....I'd love to see a particular statistic that I know CCP will never release.

    I'd love to see a correlation between the apex of the game's power-base, based on active players, not characters, and how many active accounts those players have.
  • MyrradahMyrradah Member UncommonPosts: 86
    I've always been curious....I'd love to see a particular statistic that I know CCP will never release.

    I'd love to see a correlation between the apex of the game's power-base, based on active players, not characters, and how many active accounts those players have.
    It wont be very accurate. Maybe based off IP address itt would be

    But i have 3 accounts and i use a different email address for each.
  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Myrradah said:
    "After about 3 months you can be on par with someone who has 200 mil SP in a Frigate, Dessie, Cruisers etc. not a BB and higher yet, you need a little more time. "

    Yeah...sounds great....3 months huh?


    No worst than any other MMO. But definitely not the "never" the person stated.
    IS worse than other MMOs....you nuts?

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,728
    Myrradah said:
    I've always been curious....I'd love to see a particular statistic that I know CCP will never release.

    I'd love to see a correlation between the apex of the game's power-base, based on active players, not characters, and how many active accounts those players have.
    It wont be very accurate. Maybe based off IP address itt would be

    But i have 3 accounts and i use a different email address for each.
    Well the point remains, Or at least my theory anyway, that there is a direct correlation to the top players in the game and how many accounts they use. But this is the brilliance of EVE. Just let the peons subsidize the upper level of the power base. P2W? Hell no! It's pay to lose! Buy PLEX and reinforce the power base that will kick your ass all over Null.
  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 2,998
    I quit the first time after only one hour.   Then came back a year and a half later and forced my way through the tutorial and played for 4 months.  It was fun to play will I did homework at the time.  I loved the options and expanse.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • MyrradahMyrradah Member UncommonPosts: 86
    edited July 2016
    Myrradah said:
    "After about 3 months you can be on par with someone who has 200 mil SP in a Frigate, Dessie, Cruisers etc. not a BB and higher yet, you need a little more time. "

    Yeah...sounds great....3 months huh?


    No worst than any other MMO. But definitely not the "never" the person stated.
    IS worse than other MMOs....you nuts?
    There isnt much in the way of MMO's i havent played out there. They are the same in this area all the way back to Bulletin boards, MUDS / ROMS and meridian 59.

    Unless you are like me, and the majority of people dont do this - its a rush to get to top level and dont bother with the story....
  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Myrradah said:
    I've always been curious....I'd love to see a particular statistic that I know CCP will never release.

    I'd love to see a correlation between the apex of the game's power-base, based on active players, not characters, and how many active accounts those players have.
    It wont be very accurate. Maybe based off IP address itt would be

    But i have 3 accounts and i use a different email address for each.
    Well the point remains, Or at least my theory anyway, that there is a direct correlation to the top players in the game and how many accounts they use. But this is the brilliance of EVE. Just let the peons subsidize the upper level of the power base. P2W? Hell no! It's pay to lose! Buy PLEX and reinforce the power base that will kick your ass all over Null.
    Awesome theory. I have 2 accounts, just like I have had for the last 7 years.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • YalexyYalexy Member UncommonPosts: 1,058
    I started playing EvE back in 2005 and I played it religiously until around 2009. Since then I've come and gone while playing other MMOs until I stopped alltogether a year ago.

    The biggest problem of EvE imho is the time-requirement. Back when I started I didn't have that much other things to take care of, so I could easily spend my whole evening and all of the weekends in EvE, playing some 30-40 hours a week.
    EvE isn't made for the casual player, who just want's to jump in for an hour between dinner and bedtime to have a good time. And allthough you can do it theoretically, that simply won't do anything for you as all the meaningful things in EvE are out of the question within such limited time.

    ---

    The next problem of EvE is the unappealing PVE-gameplay. EvE simply lacks engaging content for those not interested in PVP. Some things have been tried to fix this in the past, but it's simply not anywhere comparable to running a 5-player dungeon, let alone 10+ raids.
    The thing that comes closest is roaming into hostile nullsec with a small and fast gang, which is ironically not PVE.

    In my haydays in EvE I was never interested much in PVE and pretty much joined a PVP-corp right away and ventured into nullsec a mere month after I created my first character. I didn't need to care about ISK, as the ships were provided by the corp/alliance. Beltratting made more than enough money for the rest that was needed.

    If you're not interested much in PVP, then EvE really hasn't much fun gameplay to offer, and being ganked in high-sec while running missions, mining or trading sure doesn't help to attract any players not interested in PVP.
    Funnily enough you can make more money in nullsec while being safer at the same time than in high-sec.

    ---

    Last but not least, not having a character to run around with is very unappealing for most people. The decision to cancel WIS and to make Dust514 a PS3-exclusive astonished alot of folks shaking their heads.
    WIS and Dust514 should've been tightly integrated into EvE to offer traditional RPG-gameplay and to broaden the options of playing EvE, PvE and PvP alike. Quests, dungeons, arenas, planetary warfare.
    Combine it with the space-gameplay, where you might need to do part of a major quest-line in Jita and then travel to Amarr to complete it, with a few quests inbetween, etc.

    ---

    What EvE needs is a totally safe high-sec for those unwilling to take part in PvP. NPC-corps can't be wardecced, so this would be easily doable. Simply make high-sec less profitable in return, cutting rewards and bounties atleast in half.
    Additionally we need classic character-based RPG-gameplay for those not interested to be a spaceship all of the time, but with a meaningful purpose like planetary warfare, to influence the whole game.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,336
    I've always been curious....I'd love to see a particular statistic that I know CCP will never release.

    I'd love to see a correlation between the apex of the game's power-base, based on active players, not characters, and how many active accounts those players have.
    It's really simple. Play the game and watch the "online" counter on log in in different hours. You'll see a huge drop down in certain times. You can easily bet the isboxers went sleep and you'll be able to mine in peace.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,666
    Nyctelios said:
    It's really simple. Play the game and watch the "online" counter on log in in different hours. You'll see a huge drop down in certain times. You can easily bet the isboxers went sleep and you'll be able to mine in peace.
    ...or more rationally. Players around the globe are not distributed evenly.

    Same drops can be observed in any game.
  • cosycosy Member UncommonPosts: 3,228
    like i said many times and some years back, CCP need to make EvE full body avatar so people can play the game in stations and dont get blown up

    BestSigEver :P
    image

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