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CM_Jouska Finally acknowledges a few concerns, kinda

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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member EpicPosts: 7,209
    I just hope, for their own sake, that they make the right decision about that PvP quest.
    Lower the quest to 45, block level up until you've done the quest = winner, everybody happy, the crafters can play in peace and the whiners afraid "invincible" level 49 characters would "steal their mob" (lol...) are happy too.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 6,864
    I just hope, for their own sake, that they make the right decision about that PvP quest.
    Lower the quest to 45, block level up until you've done the quest = winner, everybody happy, the crafters can play in peace and the whiners afraid "invincible" level 49 characters would "steal their mob" (lol...) are happy too.
    Naw, the latest excuse is that people would be able to gear up too easy with no worries about PvP then come and jack them all up with their easily earned uber PvP character xD I swear excuses get more and more ridiculous lmfao
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Viper482 said:
    When you see players agreeing with publishers to block player to player trading to stop gold sellers instead of demanding that publishers be more vigilant to stop them, that is the moment I realize how far the genre has fallen(or is the players who have fallen?), it no longer seems like an mmo, no longer feels like a virtual world, no longer feels like i no longer need any meaningful interaction with others, it is like learning to live in a world run by communists!!
    Exaggerate much? If trading was the only meaningful interaction you could conjure up between players something is wrong with you, not the game.
    Player trading is the most influential feature in any kind of online game that has a proper economy.

    Let us forget about economy and talk about community, i will discuss a game where player trading is accepted as an essential feature as it is a proper mmorpg. A new player enters the game after a year of game publication, he is far behind compared to the rest of player base, now he joins a very helpful guild, they help with dungeon runs, pvp etc and also they trade crafting items cheap so that new guy can catch up fast. Played a lot of mmorpg where this new guy was me.

    Now you tell me if this scenario is possible in NA version of BDO? You are gonna say : "but of there is auction house and they are regulated by publisher so price won't be too much and that new player will not have any problem". If all a player need is to interact with one UI after another which is devoid of human interaction, what is the point of playing an mmorpg? Why not just buy a single player game and play it? People who can't see the nonsense have some problem.  

    Blocking player trading to stoop gold selling instead of having a dedicated team to handle the issue is a sign that publisher is not trying to handle the problem, they are trying to find a work around that is financially profitable for them while giving a shaft to players who are more a proper mmo crowd.

    And when players like you agree with the publisher it is just plain and simple sad.

    But of course you are allowed to "lol" as much as you want or say i have some problem or dig a hole and bury your head.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • PhryPhry Member EpicPosts: 9,441
    Viper482 said:
    When you see players agreeing with publishers to block player to player trading to stop gold sellers instead of demanding that publishers be more vigilant to stop them, that is the moment I realize how far the genre has fallen(or is the players who have fallen?), it no longer seems like an mmo, no longer feels like a virtual world, no longer feels like i no longer need any meaningful interaction with others, it is like learning to live in a world run by communists!!
    Exaggerate much? If trading was the only meaningful interaction you could conjure up between players something is wrong with you, not the game.
    Player trading is the most influential feature in any kind of online game that has a proper economy.

    Let us forget about economy and talk about community, i will discuss a game where player trading is accepted as an essential feature as it is a proper mmorpg. A new player enters the game after a year of game publication, he is far behind compared to the rest of player base, now he joins a very helpful guild, they help with dungeon runs, pvp etc and also they trade crafting items cheap so that new guy can catch up fast. Played a lot of mmorpg where this new guy was me.

    Now you tell me if this scenario is possible in NA version of BDO? You are gonna say : "but of there is auction house and they are regulated by publisher so price won't be too much and that new player will not have any problem". If all a player need is to interact with one UI after another which is devoid of human interaction, what is the point of playing an mmorpg? Why not just buy a single player game and play it? People who can't see the nonsense have some problem.  

    Blocking player trading to stoop gold selling instead of having a dedicated team to handle the issue is a sign that publisher is not trying to handle the problem, they are trying to find a work around that is financially profitable for them while giving a shaft to players who are more a proper mmo crowd.

    And when players like you agree with the publisher it is just plain and simple sad.

    But of course you are allowed to "lol" as much as you want or say i have some problem or dig a hole and bury your head.
    Whether you agree with the measure or not, it works, players can still trade via the AH, so what is the problem really?
    Direct player to player trading is not something that games really need, and its something that is more often than not, exploited fairly extensively by, not just gold sellers, though they are the most visible, but players who scam, players who extort etc. and i have no problem at all playing a game that precludes those things.
    That the game is actually very successful, at least so far, is at least to me, a sign of the justification of those methods used to curb RMT trading etc. There is obviously more to be done as it seems xigncode is too easily bypassed by hackers, but that is a seperate issue, and one that will hopefully be resolved quickly.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,431
    edited May 2016
    Phry said:
    Viper482 said:
    When you see players agreeing with publishers to block player to player trading to stop gold sellers instead of demanding that publishers be more vigilant to stop them, that is the moment I realize how far the genre has fallen(or is the players who have fallen?), it no longer seems like an mmo, no longer feels like a virtual world, no longer feels like i no longer need any meaningful interaction with others, it is like learning to live in a world run by communists!!
    Exaggerate much? If trading was the only meaningful interaction you could conjure up between players something is wrong with you, not the game.
    Player trading is the most influential feature in any kind of online game that has a proper economy.

    Let us forget about economy and talk about community, i will discuss a game where player trading is accepted as an essential feature as it is a proper mmorpg. A new player enters the game after a year of game publication, he is far behind compared to the rest of player base, now he joins a very helpful guild, they help with dungeon runs, pvp etc and also they trade crafting items cheap so that new guy can catch up fast. Played a lot of mmorpg where this new guy was me.

    Now you tell me if this scenario is possible in NA version of BDO? You are gonna say : "but of there is auction house and they are regulated by publisher so price won't be too much and that new player will not have any problem". If all a player need is to interact with one UI after another which is devoid of human interaction, what is the point of playing an mmorpg? Why not just buy a single player game and play it? People who can't see the nonsense have some problem.  

    Blocking player trading to stoop gold selling instead of having a dedicated team to handle the issue is a sign that publisher is not trying to handle the problem, they are trying to find a work around that is financially profitable for them while giving a shaft to players who are more a proper mmo crowd.

    And when players like you agree with the publisher it is just plain and simple sad.

    But of course you are allowed to "lol" as much as you want or say i have some problem or dig a hole and bury your head.
    Whether you agree with the measure or not, it works, players can still trade via the AH, so what is the problem really?
    Direct player to player trading is not something that games really need, and its something that is more often than not, exploited fairly extensively by, not just gold sellers, though they are the most visible, but players who scam, players who extort etc. and i have no problem at all playing a game that precludes those things.
    That the game is actually very successful, at least so far, is at least to me, a sign of the justification of those methods used to curb RMT trading etc. There is obviously more to be done as it seems xigncode is too easily bypassed by hackers, but that is a seperate issue, and one that will hopefully be resolved quickly.

    Trading via AH is not an option - if I want to give an Ogre ring to my guildy who lets say happens to be my wife in RL - it will cost 90mi silver.

    That's just not viable.

    Almost every major MMO in history has allowed gear trading friends and family, guild members etc...

    The no-trade system is a huge step backwards, it's a heavy handed approach that hurts more than it helps IMO - as it turns the game to "every person for him/her-self" when it comes to gearing up. It's not a very good system for me - it's one of the reasons my guild never joined Black Desert period - our guild crafters would lose all purpose as we can't feed them materials, and they can't make anything for the guild.

    Direct player trading is *an absolutely essential* feature for guild-centric players - it creates so much interaction and builds inter-guild relationships up - because you know that you are helping your guild members gear up, and they are helping you as well - there's a feeling of all for one - it's awesome.

    Do you know how many times in the last 10+ years in my guild chat you hear this "Hey anybody need this (gear drop) - Gonna put it in guild bank" or "hey all I am still missing (crafting material or gear piece) to complete my set" - if anyone has it, hit me up" .. etc..

    These types of interactions are essential to guilds.

    Black Desert misses on that - and it's a big deal for guilds that have played together since like EQ1 days - 15+ years.

    As far as scamming via trade systems - look at newer games that have multiple fail-safe built into the trade transactions - it's almost impossible to scam a player - as making both parties have to click accept in a multi-step process and any changes at any point cancels the trade process.

    Black Desert got this right for solo players who don't really trade - as their gameplay is unchanged - they didn't trade in games where trade existed so nothing is different

    Black Desert got it wrong for organized guilds that are very trade centric - with dedicated crafters, where all crafting and gear resources are pooled to gear up all the guild members.



    Post edited by DMKano on
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited May 2016
    DMKano said:
    Phry said:

    Player trading is the most influential feature in any kind of online game that has a proper economy.

    Let us forget about economy and talk about community, i will discuss a game where player trading is accepted as an essential feature as it is a proper mmorpg. A new player enters the game after a year of game publication, he is far behind compared to the rest of player base, now he joins a very helpful guild, they help with dungeon runs, pvp etc and also they trade crafting items cheap so that new guy can catch up fast. Played a lot of mmorpg where this new guy was me.

    Now you tell me if this scenario is possible in NA version of BDO? You are gonna say : "but of there is auction house and they are regulated by publisher so price won't be too much and that new player will not have any problem". If all a player need is to interact with one UI after another which is devoid of human interaction, what is the point of playing an mmorpg? Why not just buy a single player game and play it? People who can't see the nonsense have some problem.  

    Blocking player trading to stoop gold selling instead of having a dedicated team to handle the issue is a sign that publisher is not trying to handle the problem, they are trying to find a work around that is financially profitable for them while giving a shaft to players who are more a proper mmo crowd.

    And when players like you agree with the publisher it is just plain and simple sad.

    But of course you are allowed to "lol" as much as you want or say i have some problem or dig a hole and bury your head.
    Whether you agree with the measure or not, it works, players can still trade via the AH, so what is the problem really?
    Direct player to player trading is not something that games really need, and its something that is more often than not, exploited fairly extensively by, not just gold sellers, though they are the most visible, but players who scam, players who extort etc. and i have no problem at all playing a game that precludes those things.
    That the game is actually very successful, at least so far, is at least to me, a sign of the justification of those methods used to curb RMT trading etc. There is obviously more to be done as it seems xigncode is too easily bypassed by hackers, but that is a seperate issue, and one that will hopefully be resolved quickly.

    Trading via AH is not an option - if I want to give an Ogre ring to my guildy who lets say happens to be my wife in RL - it will cost 90mi silver.

    That's just not viable.

    Almost every major MMO in history has allowed gear trading friends and family, guild members etc...

    The no-trade system is a huge step backwards, it's a heavy handed approach that hurts more than it helps IMO - as it turns the game to "every person for him/her-self" when it comes to gearing up. It's not a very good system for me - it's one of the reasons my guild never joined Black Desert period - our guild crafters would lose all purpose as we can't feed them materials, and they can't make anything for the guild.

    Direct player trading is *an absolutely essential* feature for guild-centric players - it creates so much interaction and builds inter-guild relationships up - because you know that you are helping your guild members gear up, and they are helping you as well - there's a feeling of all for one - it's awesome.

    Do you know how many times in the last 10+ years in my guild chat you hear this "Hey anybody need this (gear drop) - Gonna put it in guild bank" or "hey all I am still missing (crafting material or gear piece) to complete my set" - if anyone has it, hit me up" .. etc..

    These types of interactions are essential to guilds.

    Black Desert misses on that - and it's a big deal for guilds that have played together since like EQ1 days - 15+ years.

    As far as scamming via trade systems - look at newer games that have multiple fail-safe built into the trade transactions - it's almost impossible to scam a player - as making both parties have to click accept in a multi-step process and any changes at any point cancels the trade process.

    Black Desert got this right for solo players who don't really trade - as their gameplay is unchanged - they didn't trade in games where trade existed so nothing is different

    Black Desert got it wrong for organized guilds that are very trade centric - with dedicated crafters, where all crafting and gear resources are pooled to gear up all the guild members.




    Player trading is not a necessity nor is it the most influential feature of an online game that has an economy. If it were, BDO wouldn't be playable right now, less be as successful as it has been to date.

    The dependence of player trading by guilds and players is a matter of culture and habit. Those guilds and players complaining about not being able to function in the game properly due to players not being able to trade are players and guilds that have no flexibility, imagination, and are unable to adjust to differing game mechanics.  There are work-arounds to any supposed negative circumstance that not being able to trade present. They may be different than what players and guilds are accustomed to, but they can be accomplished.    

    Regarding gearing a player, a guild can still help a new guildie get geared it will just require teamwork and the necessity that the guidie actually do some game playing and earn their way rather than be handed everything by their guildies without doing a lick of work.  

    Pray tell, why should it be admissible for a player to simply hand another player an ogre ring just because they are a guildie, friend, or someone you want to give something to, to earn their favor?  You had to earn your ogre ring why shouldn't they?  The player would garner a new found respect, and a sense of accomplishment, by playing the game and putting in the time/work and earning that ogre ring themselves.  This mentality that players need to somehow be carried simply because they are guildies, family members, or friends is one of entitlement, not necessity.

    Again, anything that can be accomplished with player trading can be accomplished without it.  Players can still chat, help guildies with information to get them going in the game by advising them about what, where and how to go about acquiring these items.  They can provide and explain short cuts and even help them out with quests whenever necessary. Those avenues by which to help another player would be much more respected than simply "giving things away."  Many of these activities can be accomplished while grouped, and via guild missions, which is actually what an MMO and community is about, not about giving things away.

    Allowing player trading, on the other hand, does in fact ruin economies and brings many more unfavorables to the game via botting, AH exploitation and scamming, gold selling, etc., unlike the perceived unplayable lack of activities that players arguing for trading bring up as rendering their game unplayable.  And this is all the more important now, since the recent revelation that most everything in the game is client-side managed.  BDO is a breath of fresh air to play as a result of no player trading and well worth the sacrifices that need to be made to overcome the lack thereof.  


    Post edited by LacedOpium on
  • WizardryWizardry Member EpicPosts: 14,231
    edited May 2016
    Tiller said:
    Now that I read through all this I kinda think maybe they listened to the wrong crowd of people, as it seems their pre-launch crowd differs in opinion from the crowd that is actually playing the game at the moment. I don't want to say it might have been mistake number one to listen to their pre-launch community, but it's kinda looking so. Were they really that directionless when they bought the rights to publish this game here?
    LMAO 
    I would think that goes without saying,the PRE crowd,those that become INSTANT fanbois and blindly throw money around are of a different mentality than those who wait patiently and dissect what is going on.

    Then asking about Daum and how much thought it put into licensing/contracting the rights.Look no further than Trion and Archeage,they put NO thought into it,they see potential $$$ and that is all they care about.
    Obviously we don't know the exact contracts but imo they must be VERY weak with basics like providing "adequate" server space,adequate uptime/maintenance time ,timely updates and needed security and not much more than that.

    Everything in gaming is done as a business,it is not done with the gamer in mind,it is done with the business in mind.
    Post edited by Wizardry on

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • yucklawyersyucklawyers Member UncommonPosts: 195
    edited May 2016
    Any decision like this has pros and cons, but although I really don't mind this one, it does feel like a backward step. So to does the limited market prices. in fact, IMO, the limited market will be more of a negative in the long run when the market is saturated with almost everything.

    This game does one or two things exceptionally well, which is why it's had such a great start. The open world, the immersion, all that is the best I have come across, but some aspects do go steeply downhill after that. Parts of it are like a control freaks paradise. You can understand why playing numbers in KR just simply crashed.

    And whoever first called this a sandbox is a moron. It's actually more themeparky than a lot of themepark MMO's :).
    Post edited by yucklawyers on
  • Dragonsfire9Dragonsfire9 Member UncommonPosts: 85
    Well one thing is you don't have to follow those themepark rails to advance in crafting or anything else.  If you hate them just ignore them.  If you care to you can play this game as a total sandbox, it is not the fastest way to progress though.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,431
    edited May 2016
    Well one thing is you don't have to follow those themepark rails to advance in crafting or anything else.  If you hate them just ignore them.  If you care to you can play this game as a total sandbox, it is not the fastest way to progress though.

    Not viable due to processing requiring energy use, I'd you don't do the quests and talk to every NPC your energy pool would be so tiny you couldn't craft effectively. 

    So this wouldn't work in practice - because NA/EU has energy use on processing (Korea doesn't have this).

    Crafting is on rails - every crafting system has a linear progression where you start doing"A" until you gain enough skill then you move to "B" etc...

    Calling this game a sandbox is a stretch when every system has linear progression path.
    Post edited by DMKano on
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,134
    DMKano said:
    Calling this game a sandbox is a stretch when every system has linear progression path.
    Which just goes to show that when someone says "sandbox" everyone thinks of something different.

    Some people seem to think that an open world with no loading screens, OPW PVP and quests that are not done for XP is enough to qualify it when in fact it just makes it a different kind of themepark.

    Hell ESO, a game no one would confuse with a sandbox, has a much "sandier" character ability development system than BDO's class-locked system.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 8,956
    DMKano said:
    Phry said:




    Player trading is not a necessity nor is it the most influential feature of an online game that has an economy. If it were, BDO wouldn't be playable right now, less be as successful as it has been to date.

    The dependence of player trading by guilds and players is a matter of culture and habit. Those guilds and players complaining about not being able to function in the game properly due to players not being able to trade are players and guilds that have no flexibility, imagination, and are unable to adjust to differing game mechanics.  There are work-arounds to any supposed negative circumstance that not being able to trade present. They may be different than what players and guilds are accustomed to, but they can be accomplished.    

    Regarding gearing a player, a guild can still help a new guildie get geared it will just require teamwork and the necessity that the guidie actually do some game playing and earn their way rather than be handed everything by their guildies without doing a lick of work.  

    Pray tell, why should it be admissible for a player to simply hand another player an ogre ring just because they are a guildie, friend, or someone you want to give something to, to earn their favor?  You had to earn your ogre ring why shouldn't they?  The player would garner a new found respect, and a sense of accomplishment, by playing the game and putting in the time/work and earning that ogre ring themselves.  This mentality that players need to somehow be carried simply because they are guildies, family members, or friends is one of entitlement, not necessity.

    Again, anything that can be accomplished with player trading can be accomplished without it.  Players can still chat, help guildies with information to get them going in the game by advising them about what, where and how to go about acquiring these items.  They can provide and explain short cuts and even help them out with quests whenever necessary. Those avenues by which to help another player would be much more respected than simply "giving things away."  Many of these activities can be accomplished while grouped, and via guild missions, which is actually what an MMO and community is about, not about giving things away.

    Allowing player trading, on the other hand, does in fact ruin economies and brings many more unfavorables to the game via botting, AH exploitation and scamming, gold selling, etc., unlike the perceived unplayable lack of activities that players arguing for trading bring up as rendering their game unplayable.  And this is all the more important now, since the recent revelation that most everything in the game is client-side managed.  BDO is a breath of fresh air to play as a result of no player trading and well worth the sacrifices that need to be made to overcome the lack thereof.  


    It is NOT a MMORPG without player trading.  Just another RPG with major issues.  Makes crafting pretty useless having to depend on the AH all the time.  

    Your response has to be one of the most clueless posts ever on any forum because you have no clue what a MMORPG is one bit.
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    DMKano said:
    Phry said:

    Player trading is the most influential feature in any kind of online game that has a proper economy.

    Let us forget about economy and talk about community, i will discuss a game where player trading is accepted as an essential feature as it is a proper mmorpg. A new player enters the game after a year of game publication, he is far behind compared to the rest of player base, now he joins a very helpful guild, they help with dungeon runs, pvp etc and also they trade crafting items cheap so that new guy can catch up fast. Played a lot of mmorpg where this new guy was me.

    Now you tell me if this scenario is possible in NA version of BDO? You are gonna say : "but of there is auction house and they are regulated by publisher so price won't be too much and that new player will not have any problem". If all a player need is to interact with one UI after another which is devoid of human interaction, what is the point of playing an mmorpg? Why not just buy a single player game and play it? People who can't see the nonsense have some problem.  

    Blocking player trading to stoop gold selling instead of having a dedicated team to handle the issue is a sign that publisher is not trying to handle the problem, they are trying to find a work around that is financially profitable for them while giving a shaft to players who are more a proper mmo crowd.

    And when players like you agree with the publisher it is just plain and simple sad.

    But of course you are allowed to "lol" as much as you want or say i have some problem or dig a hole and bury your head.
    Whether you agree with the measure or not, it works, players can still trade via the AH, so what is the problem really?
    Direct player to player trading is not something that games really need, and its something that is more often than not, exploited fairly extensively by, not just gold sellers, though they are the most visible, but players who scam, players who extort etc. and i have no problem at all playing a game that precludes those things.
    That the game is actually very successful, at least so far, is at least to me, a sign of the justification of those methods used to curb RMT trading etc. There is obviously more to be done as it seems xigncode is too easily bypassed by hackers, but that is a seperate issue, and one that will hopefully be resolved quickly.

    Trading via AH is not an option - if I want to give an Ogre ring to my guildy who lets say happens to be my wife in RL - it will cost 90mi silver.

    That's just not viable.

    Almost every major MMO in history has allowed gear trading friends and family, guild members etc...

    The no-trade system is a huge step backwards, it's a heavy handed approach that hurts more than it helps IMO - as it turns the game to "every person for him/her-self" when it comes to gearing up. It's not a very good system for me - it's one of the reasons my guild never joined Black Desert period - our guild crafters would lose all purpose as we can't feed them materials, and they can't make anything for the guild.

    Direct player trading is *an absolutely essential* feature for guild-centric players - it creates so much interaction and builds inter-guild relationships up - because you know that you are helping your guild members gear up, and they are helping you as well - there's a feeling of all for one - it's awesome.

    Do you know how many times in the last 10+ years in my guild chat you hear this "Hey anybody need this (gear drop) - Gonna put it in guild bank" or "hey all I am still missing (crafting material or gear piece) to complete my set" - if anyone has it, hit me up" .. etc..

    These types of interactions are essential to guilds.

    Black Desert misses on that - and it's a big deal for guilds that have played together since like EQ1 days - 15+ years.

    As far as scamming via trade systems - look at newer games that have multiple fail-safe built into the trade transactions - it's almost impossible to scam a player - as making both parties have to click accept in a multi-step process and any changes at any point cancels the trade process.

    Black Desert got this right for solo players who don't really trade - as their gameplay is unchanged - they didn't trade in games where trade existed so nothing is different

    Black Desert got it wrong for organized guilds that are very trade centric - with dedicated crafters, where all crafting and gear resources are pooled to gear up all the guild members.




    Player trading is not a necessity nor is it the most influential feature of an online game that has an economy. If it were, BDO wouldn't be playable right now, less be as successful as it has been to date.


    It is popular because daum said that : "every restriction in place is to stop gold seller" and idiotic western players went "yay!!!! such great company who is stopping gold sellers!! let's give them all of our money!!".

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • yucklawyersyucklawyers Member UncommonPosts: 195
    edited May 2016
    It does seem like the 'sandbox' definition has become mutated.

    I always have a simply way to illustrate it. Through crafting.

    Theme park crafting, in this case chopping wood. You go to a tree, chop it, afterwards the tree remains in place, in five minutes you can chop it again.

    Sandbox crafting, in this case chopping wood, You go to a tree, chop it, it falls down and vanishes. End of. Somewhere else in the game world new saplings are spouting and growing over game time into trees to be chopped.

    In the second one players make a PERSISTENT change to the world. If players decide, they could give up chopping all together and it would be forest everywhere. Or vice, versa.

    Mechanisms being on rails per se, that's just an issue of choice. Which is good, but nothing to do with being a sandbox.
    Think kiddies in the sandbox, if he only has a spade to play with, that's being on rails, but he can still do sandbox stuff. If he has a spade *and* a bouncy ball *and* a bucket. he has better choices, but it's not anything to do with being a sandbox.
    It's using the spade to dig holes that is the sandbox element. In a theme park the hole immediately gets filled in so someone else can dig a hole. In a sandbox it stays so little Jimmy falls into it and dies :).

    Making a sandbox is much scarier for these companies because they lose control. Look at BDO for an example of an even more controlled game than normal with it's restrictions on trading and the marketplace. As I said above, you could make a pretty good argument it's more theme park than even WOW, lol :).
    Post edited by yucklawyers on
  • AzothAzoth Member UncommonPosts: 835
    DMKano said:
    Phry said:

    Player trading is the most influential feature in any kind of online game that has a proper economy.

    Let us forget about economy and talk about community, i will discuss a game where player trading is accepted as an essential feature as it is a proper mmorpg. A new player enters the game after a year of game publication, he is far behind compared to the rest of player base, now he joins a very helpful guild, they help with dungeon runs, pvp etc and also they trade crafting items cheap so that new guy can catch up fast. Played a lot of mmorpg where this new guy was me.

    Now you tell me if this scenario is possible in NA version of BDO? You are gonna say : "but of there is auction house and they are regulated by publisher so price won't be too much and that new player will not have any problem". If all a player need is to interact with one UI after another which is devoid of human interaction, what is the point of playing an mmorpg? Why not just buy a single player game and play it? People who can't see the nonsense have some problem.  

    Blocking player trading to stoop gold selling instead of having a dedicated team to handle the issue is a sign that publisher is not trying to handle the problem, they are trying to find a work around that is financially profitable for them while giving a shaft to players who are more a proper mmo crowd.

    And when players like you agree with the publisher it is just plain and simple sad.

    But of course you are allowed to "lol" as much as you want or say i have some problem or dig a hole and bury your head.
    Whether you agree with the measure or not, it works, players can still trade via the AH, so what is the problem really?
    Direct player to player trading is not something that games really need, and its something that is more often than not, exploited fairly extensively by, not just gold sellers, though they are the most visible, but players who scam, players who extort etc. and i have no problem at all playing a game that precludes those things.
    That the game is actually very successful, at least so far, is at least to me, a sign of the justification of those methods used to curb RMT trading etc. There is obviously more to be done as it seems xigncode is too easily bypassed by hackers, but that is a seperate issue, and one that will hopefully be resolved quickly.

    Trading via AH is not an option - if I want to give an Ogre ring to my guildy who lets say happens to be my wife in RL - it will cost 90mi silver.

    That's just not viable.

    Almost every major MMO in history has allowed gear trading friends and family, guild members etc...

    The no-trade system is a huge step backwards, it's a heavy handed approach that hurts more than it helps IMO - as it turns the game to "every person for him/her-self" when it comes to gearing up. It's not a very good system for me - it's one of the reasons my guild never joined Black Desert period - our guild crafters would lose all purpose as we can't feed them materials, and they can't make anything for the guild.

    Direct player trading is *an absolutely essential* feature for guild-centric players - it creates so much interaction and builds inter-guild relationships up - because you know that you are helping your guild members gear up, and they are helping you as well - there's a feeling of all for one - it's awesome.

    Do you know how many times in the last 10+ years in my guild chat you hear this "Hey anybody need this (gear drop) - Gonna put it in guild bank" or "hey all I am still missing (crafting material or gear piece) to complete my set" - if anyone has it, hit me up" .. etc..

    These types of interactions are essential to guilds.

    Black Desert misses on that - and it's a big deal for guilds that have played together since like EQ1 days - 15+ years.

    As far as scamming via trade systems - look at newer games that have multiple fail-safe built into the trade transactions - it's almost impossible to scam a player - as making both parties have to click accept in a multi-step process and any changes at any point cancels the trade process.

    Black Desert got this right for solo players who don't really trade - as their gameplay is unchanged - they didn't trade in games where trade existed so nothing is different

    Black Desert got it wrong for organized guilds that are very trade centric - with dedicated crafters, where all crafting and gear resources are pooled to gear up all the guild members.




    Player trading is not a necessity nor is it the most influential feature of an online game that has an economy. If it were, BDO wouldn't be playable right now, less be as successful as it has been to date.


    It is popular because daum said that : "every restriction in place is to stop gold seller" and idiotic western players went "yay!!!! such great company who is stopping gold sellers!! let's give them all of our money!!".
    It is popular because it works. My ability to sell my crafted stuff is still there while the gold seller gets shafted. I don't care about player to player trading. I get a fair price for what I am selling, the same I would do player to player. I don't need anyone to hand me stuff for free.
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited May 2016
    Ozmodan said:
    DMKano said:
    Phry said:




    Player trading is not a necessity nor is it the most influential feature of an online game that has an economy. If it were, BDO wouldn't be playable right now, less be as successful as it has been to date.

    The dependence of player trading by guilds and players is a matter of culture and habit. Those guilds and players complaining about not being able to function in the game properly due to players not being able to trade are players and guilds that have no flexibility, imagination, and are unable to adjust to differing game mechanics.  There are work-arounds to any supposed negative circumstance that not being able to trade present. They may be different than what players and guilds are accustomed to, but they can be accomplished.    

    Regarding gearing a player, a guild can still help a new guildie get geared it will just require teamwork and the necessity that the guidie actually do some game playing and earn their way rather than be handed everything by their guildies without doing a lick of work.  

    Pray tell, why should it be admissible for a player to simply hand another player an ogre ring just because they are a guildie, friend, or someone you want to give something to, to earn their favor?  You had to earn your ogre ring why shouldn't they?  The player would garner a new found respect, and a sense of accomplishment, by playing the game and putting in the time/work and earning that ogre ring themselves.  This mentality that players need to somehow be carried simply because they are guildies, family members, or friends is one of entitlement, not necessity.

    Again, anything that can be accomplished with player trading can be accomplished without it.  Players can still chat, help guildies with information to get them going in the game by advising them about what, where and how to go about acquiring these items.  They can provide and explain short cuts and even help them out with quests whenever necessary. Those avenues by which to help another player would be much more respected than simply "giving things away."  Many of these activities can be accomplished while grouped, and via guild missions, which is actually what an MMO and community is about, not about giving things away.

    Allowing player trading, on the other hand, does in fact ruin economies and brings many more unfavorables to the game via botting, AH exploitation and scamming, gold selling, etc., unlike the perceived unplayable lack of activities that players arguing for trading bring up as rendering their game unplayable.  And this is all the more important now, since the recent revelation that most everything in the game is client-side managed.  BDO is a breath of fresh air to play as a result of no player trading and well worth the sacrifices that need to be made to overcome the lack thereof.  


    It is NOT a MMORPG without player trading.  Just another RPG with major issues.  Makes crafting pretty useless having to depend on the AH all the time.  

    Your response has to be one of the most clueless posts ever on any forum because you have no clue what a MMORPG is one bit.

    The desperate and emotional tone of your post alone, deeming my post as "one of the most clueless posts ever on any forum" is proof enough that my post struck a truth nerve in you or you would feel no need to respond with such asinine levels of exaggeration.

    If any post can be deemed as the one of "the most clueless" it would be the one you just made as there is no mention anywhere in the description or definition of MMORPG that requires player trading to be a must, or a necessity, before a video game can be described, or defined, as an MMORPG.  MMORPG is an acronym for "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game," and it is simply defined as ...

    ... a very large number of players interacting with one another within a world. This means that MMORPGs are online games where a player is able to play with other people all around the world.  As in all RPGs, the player assume the role of a character (often in a fantasy or science fiction world) and takes control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player online RPGs by the number of players able to interact together, and by the game's persistent world which continues to exist and evolve while the player is offline and away from the game.


    My post agrees with that definition.  Yours, on the other hand claiming that "It is NOT a MMORPG without player trading,", supports your lack of knowledge on the subject matter and would therefore be a more accurate definition of perhaps,"one of the most clueless posts ever on any forum because you have no clue what a MMORPG is one bit." 

    You brought that one up and unto yourself.

    Post edited by LacedOpium on
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