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CM_Jouska Finally acknowledges a few concerns, kinda

TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 6,863
edited April 2016 in Black Desert Online


Below is the quoted text from the forums, with links
  On 4/28/2016, 4:01:31, Shy0 said:

there are so many topics being repeatedly brought up on the forums in the last few weeks that have had no dev or staff input (including pve vs pvp, the 45 cap, marketplace issues, player trading, world bosses and rare drops, "single-player MMO", support tickets, to name a few). granted, these are the most vocal players and don't necessarily represent everyone, but some of these matters will trickle down to affect everyone. while all this is going on, the staff are relatively silent, except for a few posts in random threads. even the recent interview with belz has addressed practically none of these discussions.

 it would be nice if staff could give us some feedback (two-way street and all that, you feed us, we feed you, yes?) and regularly update us about issues that the korean devs and daum eu are dealing with, e.g."Due to player feedback (i assume that's what the suggestions section of the forum is for), we are looking into "a" and "b" issues, and your feedback is being relayed to the devs in korea. We expect a reply in "z" time and we will be able to update you then. Meanwhile, we're doing "x" while preparing "y", etc. etc. See you next week! " i'd rather slow down the updates to deal with some of these issues first and also allow the non-hardcore players to catch up with all the content that is already here (but release ninja/kuno at least so people can play the class they want), than rush the updates and cause more problems down the line. and yes, there will always be a time delay between korea and daum eu, and korean devs will make korean games, but i don't see why you couldn't keep us updated like a lot of western devs/publishers like hi-rez with smite, or DE with warframe, or even ncwest with bns, who do it on a weekly/fortnightly basis. the players may not agree with every decision they take, and you don't even need to direct the discussion or give us every detail, but just a bit of reassurance that you are still there and looking into things will put out a lot of angry player flames and prevent spamming of the same topics over and over again on the forum which makes finding the useful stuff difficult.
 
  • PvE vs PvP
    • Black Desert was made with both PvE and PvP in mind and the game requires that both exists in unison for the game to work.  One is not preferred over the other.  I actually posted this previously but since then the thread has been removed otherwise I would gladly link it.
  • PvP at LvL 45
  • Player to Player Trade
    • Trade is working as the Developers intended and this choice was supported by many threads & polls from the community.
  • World Boss Loot
    • Over the last few patch notes you should notice that Field Bosses are constantly being adjusted, this is in response to Community Feedback and you can expect additional changes while we work to find a proper balance.
  • Single Player MMO
    • Based on Community Feedback changes have been made to promote Group Play such as the new party loot system "Special Deals" as well as the changes to the Group EXP Bonuses and the range at which group members receive said bonus.  We are continuing to look for fun ways to promote group play and as they confirmed announcements will be made.
  • Support Tickets
Above you will find answers to some of the question posed and I will share the feedback from this thread with the rest of the Team to make sure they are aware.


http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/78301-why-are-naeu-publishing-staff-silent-on-important-issues-being-discussed-in-the-forums/&do=findComment&comment=1018761






Post edited by Tiller on
«1

Comments

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 6,863
    Part 2



      1 hour ago, Nighenhale said:

    But why did you leave the quest to unlock pvp as is, making it useless, instead of turning it to a lvl 45 unlock quest? Why 45 instead of 50? The thread you linked is full of people asking for endgame pvp and a bunch for low level pvp, not an arbitrary 5 levels lower than Korea disabling the use of the quest.

    Sure many wanted and still want pvp as low level as possible and I understand that you would listen to them, I don't agree with them, but I understand it. The lvl 30 made sense if of course the quest text was also changed, 45 does not since it is so close to the unlock quest that it only makes 1 single difference: extra annoyance. If you don't want to pvp you have to suicide to prevent crossing the mark and if you don't then you get a slap in the face a few levels later with a quest claiming it will unlock pvp while you are already unlocked for it. It is sloppy work and makes zero sense.Either change the quest text and leave the rest as is or change it back to 50 and keep the quest as is. Make up your mind please!--------------------------------------------------A man walks into a bar and punches the first person that looks at him unconscious. After a little while that person comes to and the man says: "I am about to punch you unconscious if you look at me!" The person looks up completely confused and asks: "Couldn't you have said that before you punched me?" Upon which the man looks down on his target and says: "Sorry dude, I am working on Daum logic. I have to punch you first and warn you after. I know it makes no sense to anyone, not even me, but I work for Daum so I am bound to their logic. Btw you are looking at me right now." He punches the person unconscious again and walks away whistling the tune of the Benny Hill show...

    I will gladly call this to the attention of the Team and Developers so they can either lower the quest or change the quest text.



    http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/78301-why-are-naeu-publishing-staff-silent-on-important-issues-being-discussed-in-the-forums/&do=findComment&comment=1020201

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 6,863
    Now that I read through all this I kinda think maybe they listened to the wrong crowd of people, as it seems their pre-launch crowd differs in opinion from the crowd that is actually playing the game at the moment. I don't want to say it might have been mistake number one to listen to their pre-launch community, but it's kinda looking so. Were they really that directionless when they bought the rights to publish this game here?
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,426
    Would love to hear about their plans to address:

    • Server performance - specifically desync issues that are plaguing melee classes (grapples and grabs come to mind)
    • Server channel availability - the bottom 6 channels on all US servers are a lot less stable and frequently have major issues compared to the top channels.... this has been going on for weeks? Any fixes for this?
    • Blader/Plum DP and AP issues - I can say first hand that my KR blader hits harder and can take more damage, also the chase skill level 2 and up don't seem to be doing anything in NA version - one of the best classes in history of gaming (yes personal opinion on "best" applies here) is broken in NA... /cry
    • Exploiting - no need to go into this - just want to what server side changes are going to be done in the future - player incentive programs to "hunt" exploiters are a good start - but there needs to be a code solution long term

  • barasawabarasawa Member UncommonPosts: 562
    It's true from any issue with customers, no answers at all is always much worse than the 'unpopular' answers. 

    From what I've seen people posting, it sounds as though when you can't exceed 45 without being PvP. Well that definitely favors PvP, so whether they intended it or not, they made PvE players second class.

    They need to be careful with the whole group vs solo thing. People don't like feeling as though they are being forced to group. From what I've seen, the more a game tries to enforce group activity, the more a lot of players will try to avoid it, even if they didn't before the enforcement procedures came about. It seems the best method is encouraging it with a small bonus to negate any of the perceived penalties of being in a group, and make finding/joining a group easy, very easy.

    Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,649
    I'm always extremely cynical when I hear developers/publishers justify their changes as "what the players wanted".

    Depending on their agenda, the forums are either a "good source of feedback" or "not representative of the entire player base".

    It's wonderful PR to claim that you are listening to the players, but in the absence of any polls or visible data gathering, it all sounds like PR spin to me...
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    When you see players agreeing with publishers to block player to player trading to stop gold sellers instead of demanding that publishers be more vigilant to stop them, that is the moment I realize how far the genre has fallen(or is the players who have fallen?), it no longer seems like an mmo, no longer feels like a virtual world, no longer feels like i no longer need any meaningful interaction with others, it is like learning to live in a world run by communists!!

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,128
    I'm always extremely cynical when I hear developers/publishers justify their changes as "what the players wanted".

    Depending on their agenda, the forums are either a "good source of feedback" or "not representative of the entire player base".

    It's wonderful PR to claim that you are listening to the players, but in the absence of any polls or visible data gathering, it all sounds like PR spin to me...
    It sounds like PR spin because it is. Developers listen to the players very selectively and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,426
    edited April 2016
    Iselin said:
    I'm always extremely cynical when I hear developers/publishers justify their changes as "what the players wanted".

    Depending on their agenda, the forums are either a "good source of feedback" or "not representative of the entire player base".

    It's wonderful PR to claim that you are listening to the players, but in the absence of any polls or visible data gathering, it all sounds like PR spin to me...
    It sounds like PR spin because it is. Developers listen to the players very selectively and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

    But it wasn't the developers - Daum is a publisher - and publishers only care about one thing in the end - what will make them the most money.

    Which is not necessarily a bad thing either - because a happy player is often a paying player too.
    Post edited by DMKano on
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    In my opinion BDO biggest problem is the lack of meaningful Group PvE.
    Funnily enough this game appeal more to PvErs than PvPers, surprisingly since it was advertised as a PvP game, and indeed it is built around PvP but Daum and Pearl Abyss didn't realize it has huge PvE potential.

    The game at the moment feels like a Solo MMO, being in a Guild doesn't help either, you will play 80% of the game by yourself, because it is simply more convenient and efficient.
    The launch of Castle Sieges might help a bit, but I am afraid it won't be enough.
    To start with it is a PvP features and from the many polls in the official forums I gather that the majority are PvE players or play both PvP and PvE.
    Pure PvP players are the minority.

    So unless they implement some decent Group PvE content I am sure it won't be long until the game starts bleeding players.

  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 589
    Players spoiling a game nothing new what i don't get is when a publisher or game developer try to solve a problem it's nearly always seems to be the wrong one a lot of times according to people on this forum.

    If they weren't doing anything to try and solve these situations i could understand but it seems out of the hundred of thousands of players there  seems to be a few on here just highlighting the negative stuff which is probably blown out of proportation i would expect more complaints on the forum if it was so widespread but it just seems to be a few posting here which i find strange.
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member EpicPosts: 2,462
    ste2000 said:
    In my opinion BDO biggest problem is the lack of meaningful Group PvE.
    Funnily enough this game appeal more to PvErs than PvPers, surprisingly since it was advertised as a PvP game, and indeed it is built around PvP but Daum and Pearl Abyss didn't realize it has huge PvE potential.

    The game at the moment feels like a Solo MMO, being in a Guild doesn't help either, you will play 80% of the game by yourself, because it is simply more convenient and efficient.
    The launch of Castle Sieges might help a bit, but I am afraid it won't be enough.
    To start with it is a PvP features and from the many polls in the official forums I gather that the majority are PvE players or play both PvP and PvE.
    Pure PvP players are the minority.

    So unless they implement some decent Group PvE content I am sure it won't be long until the game starts bleeding players.
    Yeah same thing happened with Archeage. Many of the players were interested in the land ownership, PVE stuff and then bailed when they couldn't get land to do it.


    Sam: "Last game here I'm playing myself." *implicating chessboard*

    Fresh: "You're losing to yourself."

    Sam: "Yeah, life's a bitch like that."


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,128
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    I'm always extremely cynical when I hear developers/publishers justify their changes as "what the players wanted".

    Depending on their agenda, the forums are either a "good source of feedback" or "not representative of the entire player base".

    It's wonderful PR to claim that you are listening to the players, but in the absence of any polls or visible data gathering, it all sounds like PR spin to me...
    It sounds like PR spin because it is. Developers listen to the players very selectively and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

    But it wasn't the developers - Daum is a publisher - and publishers only care about one thing in the end - what will make them the most money.

    Which is not necessarily a bad thing either - because a happy player is often a paying player too.
    Fair enough but that's a fine distinction since we're typically interacting with the community manager mouthpieces whose number one job is PR, and even self-published games typically insulate the developers by using CMs.

    As to making players happy... in about three and half hours we'll all have our free falcon pet... also a PR move, but a very nice one at that. :)


    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 6,863
    edited April 2016
    AnnaTS said:
    Players spoiling a game nothing new what i don't get is when a publisher or game developer try to solve a problem it's nearly always seems to be the wrong one a lot of times according to people on this forum.

    If they weren't doing anything to try and solve these situations i could understand but it seems out of the hundred of thousands of players there  seems to be a few on here just highlighting the negative stuff which is probably blown out of proportation i would expect more complaints on the forum if it was so widespread but it just seems to be a few posting here which i find strange.
    Have you ever read their forums? lol The same complaints pop up daily; hence the point of the thread I linked.
    Post edited by Tiller on
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,649
    Iselin said:
    ...

    As to making players happy... in about three and half hours we'll all have our free falcon pet... also a PR move, but a very nice one at that. :)


    So, first some verbal reasurances, then a "Hunt the Hacker" event and finally a bribe ? :D 

    Daum's PR dept must be in overdrive, lol

    It certainly looks like they're taking all this fairly seriously. PA don't seem to give a fig, but Daum are definitely trying to protect their bottom line...
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,128
    Iselin said:
    ...

    As to making players happy... in about three and half hours we'll all have our free falcon pet... also a PR move, but a very nice one at that. :)


    So, first some verbal reasurances, then a "Hunt the Hacker" event and finally a bribe ? :D 

    Daum's PR dept must be in overdrive, lol

    It certainly looks like they're taking all this fairly seriously. PA don't seem to give a fig, but Daum are definitely trying to protect their bottom line...
    The falcon was part of the Musa release event from 12 days ago. It just takes 12 days of logging in to get it.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,426
    Iselin said:
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    I'm always extremely cynical when I hear developers/publishers justify their changes as "what the players wanted".

    Depending on their agenda, the forums are either a "good source of feedback" or "not representative of the entire player base".

    It's wonderful PR to claim that you are listening to the players, but in the absence of any polls or visible data gathering, it all sounds like PR spin to me...
    It sounds like PR spin because it is. Developers listen to the players very selectively and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

    But it wasn't the developers - Daum is a publisher - and publishers only care about one thing in the end - what will make them the most money.

    Which is not necessarily a bad thing either - because a happy player is often a paying player too.
    Fair enough but that's a fine distinction since we're typically interacting with the community manager mouthpieces whose number one job is PR, and even self-published games typically insulate the developers by using CMs.

    As to making players happy... in about three and half hours we'll all have our free falcon pet... also a PR move, but a very nice one at that. :)




    There is one anomaly when it comes to CM at Daum - Jouska is also a GM. He is the CM on the forums and also GM in game doing bans.


    Most game companies do not cross the streams, CMs are not given GM powers, and GMS don't do forums CM work - minimizes having too much power and responsibilities in ones hands.

    Daum does it differently I guess, maybe it's lack of staff?


  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited April 2016

    Daum just seems to be the type of publisher that makes a decision with the direction they will take regarding game play, and takes a hard-stance position on those decisions, with an almost stubborn "dictator-like" intent on maintaining that position regardless of the extent of the public outcry.  Even those changes made that they query the community on via polls have already been thoroughly discussed and decided on before bringing them to the community for input. They only bring them to the community for PR purposes but there is little doubt that any input from the community would ever play a part in swaying their minds as to the direction they want to take with the game.  

    This is substantiated by the manner in which they pick and choose which issues to bring to the community for input.  A good example would be that of deciding to bring a poll regarding the AFK auto-pathing feature, which was rarely discussed on the forums, yet completely disregard bringing a poll regarding PvE and the level 50 PvP opt-in quest which is an issue that has been raging on the forums since the game was released and that has garnered a constant 50/50 split in every single poll that has been initiated by the community.  Even on those links provided by the CM, they only link those that support their point of view, and totally disregard/omit mentioning those that do not.
     
    I suppose this is a good thing if your game play preferences jives with that of Daum 100% of the time, but if it doesn't you are shit out of luck because they aren't listening to the community nearly as much as some of you would like to believe.  Players need to be weary of this inflexibility on the part of Daum regardless on which side of the spectrum they may lie, however, because dictatorship-like inflexibility is never a good thing and you never know which side of that spectrum you will fall on with their next decision/position.
    Post edited by LacedOpium on
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 971
    Seems to me they are not addressing the critical questions.

    These decisions on PvE/PvP balance are irrelevant, if the players can't play properly in the first place. I've not had giant issues with hacking/stability, but given the amount of concern lately, it might make sense to address those as a priority?
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 6,863
    I don't understand how they are gonna fix that level 50 PvP quest other than to make it work the way it is supposed to. If you push it back to 45 then you gotta do a rewrite of code to make it work at 45, if you just change the text to say 45, it's still wrong because it's a 50 quest. xD
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,128
    Tiller said:
    I don't understand how they are gonna fix that level 50 PvP quest other than to make it work the way it is supposed to. If you push it back to 45 then you gotta do a rewrite of code to make it work at 45, if you just change the text to say 45, it's still wrong because it's a 50 quest. xD
    It already works at 45. It's not a "true" 50 quest just another black spirit solo boss. Still... as I've been saying for weeks, they should make it and PVP 50 if for no other reason than just giving the PVErs something to feel like they've been heard.

    Not like it's going to affect most of the PVP population that is now well over 50. It's just the PVP zealots in forums arguing against it. Any poll on the subject I've seen in the forums is at least 2 to 1 for making it 50.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 1,931
    When you see players agreeing with publishers to block player to player trading to stop gold sellers instead of demanding that publishers be more vigilant to stop them, that is the moment I realize how far the genre has fallen(or is the players who have fallen?), it no longer seems like an mmo, no longer feels like a virtual world, no longer feels like i no longer need any meaningful interaction with others, it is like learning to live in a world run by communists!!
    Exaggerate much? If trading was the only meaningful interaction you could conjure up between players something is wrong with you, not the game.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • DeltoisDeltois Member UncommonPosts: 384
    Damn this game get more entertaining by the day. Wish I was playing!!!!!!
  • MyNameIsVMyNameIsV Member UncommonPosts: 58
    DMKano said:
    Would love to hear about their plans to address:

    • Server performance - specifically desync issues that are plaguing melee classes (grapples and grabs come to mind)
    • Server channel availability - the bottom 6 channels on all US servers are a lot less stable and frequently have major issues compared to the top channels.... this has been going on for weeks? Any fixes for this?
    • Blader/Plum DP and AP issues - I can say first hand that my KR blader hits harder and can take more damage, also the chase skill level 2 and up don't seem to be doing anything in NA version - one of the best classes in history of gaming (yes personal opinion on "best" applies here) is broken in NA... /cry
    • Exploiting - no need to go into this - just want to what server side changes are going to be done in the future - player incentive programs to "hunt" exploiters are a good start - but there needs to be a code solution long term

    Server performance and exploiting is what I care about most....... And neither were addressed.
    Still some news is better than no news.
  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 589
    edited May 2016
    Tiller said:
    AnnaTS said:
    Players spoiling a game nothing new what i don't get is when a publisher or game developer try to solve a problem it's nearly always seems to be the wrong one a lot of times according to people on this forum.

    If they weren't doing anything to try and solve these situations i could understand but it seems out of the hundred of thousands of players there  seems to be a few on here just highlighting the negative stuff which is probably blown out of proportation i would expect more complaints on the forum if it was so widespread but it just seems to be a few posting here which i find strange.
    Have you ever read their forums? lol The same complaints pop up daily; hence the point of the thread I linked.
    I read some of it and there seems to be conflicting comments but i see that thread got answered and some people say that threads do get replied too maybe not all if people keep making the same ones.

    Do you expect an instant solution for every problem ?
    Post edited by AnnaTS on
  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Do you people actually play games? Or just report crap?

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

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