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A new hack enables other players name change - so framing legit players for bans is now possible

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Comments

  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 597
    edited April 2016
    Gdemami said:
    AnnaTS said:
    So because it's client side that means people should hack it's the people hacking causing the problem don't blame the design.

    I will be waiting for your perfect hack free game releasing when ?
    Blaming the lawbreakers won't help you much protecting your property, does it?
    The hackers are the problem and they are the ones to blame seeing as they are the ones causing the problem for others and seems like Daum is doing something so i think they are protecting their property the hackers are the ones who decided to hack the property.

    Please don't become a police officer if you are going to blame the victim because that is what Daum are here the victim of people hacking.

    I used a cheat once on a video game in the 90's not sure what it was for now maybe unlimited gold or something and after doing it i didn't even see the point playing i got bored very quickly.
    Post edited by AnnaTS on
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,027
    edited April 2016
    AnnaTS said:
    The hackers are the problem and they are the ones to blame seeing as they are the ones causing the problem for others and seems like Daum is doing something so i think they are protecting their property the hackers are the ones who decided to hack the property.

    Please don't become a police officer if you are going to blame the victim because that is what Daum are here the victim of people hacking.

    I used a cheat once on a video game in the 90's not sure what it was for now maybe unlimited gold or something and after doing it i didn't even see the point playing i got bored very quickly.
    Um...do you read posts you reply to? :)

    You can blame hackers as much as you want, it will not stop them using hacks.

    Only thing you can do is put up security measures that would lessen the probability of being hacked - secure client server coding.

    For the very same reason we use locks on doors, PA/Daum didn't equip their doors with any lock whatsoever, thus they are indeed to be blamed as well. They also have their share of responsibility in the matter.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,588
    edited April 2016
    AnnaTS said:
    The hackers are the problem and they are the ones to blame seeing as they are the ones causing the problem for others and seems like Daum is doing something so i think they are protecting their property the hackers are the ones who decided to hack the property.


    It's hard for trolls to resist the temptation to bash a game for real, exaggerated or even made up flaws.

    That's why they focus on bashing Daum and Pearl Abyss instead of the hackers themselves.


    Post edited by Iselin on
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,716
    These vulnerabilities have been in the game since launch in 2014, it's unlikely that PA will re-engineer their game architecture at this point if they haven't done so by now.

    Their preferred method of dealing with the hackers seems to be by banning them.
  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 597
    Gdemami said:
    AnnaTS said:
    The hackers are the problem and they are the ones to blame seeing as they are the ones causing the problem for others and seems like Daum is doing something so i think they are protecting their property the hackers are the ones who decided to hack the property.

    Please don't become a police officer if you are going to blame the victim because that is what Daum are here the victim of people hacking.

    I used a cheat once on a video game in the 90's not sure what it was for now maybe unlimited gold or something and after doing it i didn't even see the point playing i got bored very quickly.
    Um...do you read posts you reply to? :) You can blame hackers as much as you want, it will not stop them using hacks. Only thing you can do is put up security measures that would lessen the probability of being hacked - secure client server coding, something they very much failed at. For the very same reason we use locks, PA/Daum left their doors without any lock whatsoever.
    Sorry i keep forgetting we are not suppose to show emotions to companies we are just suppose to just put the blame on them even though they are doing something about the people hacking but that isn't enough you i take it.

    Still waiting on this perfect hack free game you people are releasing tell when is it the suspense is killing me ?
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 17,665
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    If people are 'editing' video footage then i think that would also show up in the file itself as having been edited, as the programs involved have their own 'footprint'
    There is no such thing.
    Yep, on this we can agree. There is no version information in the file that would indicate whether someone had shopped it or manipulated it in any nefarious way.
    *INCOMING RADIOACTIVE SUPERCELL*
    ...silent protagonist, Interloper, Traveller, Anomaly...


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 17,665
    Gdemami said:
    AnnaTS said:
    The hackers are the problem and they are the ones to blame seeing as they are the ones causing the problem for others and seems like Daum is doing something so i think they are protecting their property the hackers are the ones who decided to hack the property.

    Please don't become a police officer if you are going to blame the victim because that is what Daum are here the victim of people hacking.

    I used a cheat once on a video game in the 90's not sure what it was for now maybe unlimited gold or something and after doing it i didn't even see the point playing i got bored very quickly.
    Um...do you read posts you reply to? :)

    You can blame hackers as much as you want, it will not stop them using hacks.

    Only thing you can do is put up security measures that would lessen the probability of being hacked - secure client server coding.

    For the very same reason we use locks on doors, PA/Daum didn't equip their doors with any lock whatsoever, thus they are indeed to be blamed as well. They also have their share of responsibility in the matter.
    If the locks are easily circumvented what does it matter.

    This won't be dealt with until players can be held accountable for their actions. We should use ID verification, something like Korea, to register accounts. When an account is banned, it's banned for good. Of course that would hold the publisher responsible for actually banning the account, but that's another issue.
    *INCOMING RADIOACTIVE SUPERCELL*
    ...silent protagonist, Interloper, Traveller, Anomaly...


  • WizardryWizardry Member EpicPosts: 14,573
    Well naturally there is no such ting as a hack free game,you can thank Microsoft for that.We also should show a little restraint from outright anger however we should also realize that USUALLY it is the players complaints that get the ball rolling as developers themselves usually don't give a crap about anything unless it involves THEIR $$$.

    It is imo a good thing to at least let it be known and yes to complain,without complaints devs really would not give a shit and would/will walk all over you.However like i said ,it is in good interest to work with devs to work out problems and not go off the deep end only if the developer is not showing any effort do we need to get angry.

    I know it is stereotyping which is not fair but i have always had a low rating of Korean businesses and developers.I feel inside their operations are corrupt employees,too often do problems point in that direction or perhaps it stems right from the top.Only those who walk around naive and blind in life will never see what is going on behind these money making operations.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,588
    Torval said:
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    If people are 'editing' video footage then i think that would also show up in the file itself as having been edited, as the programs involved have their own 'footprint'
    There is no such thing.
    Yep, on this we can agree. There is no version information in the file that would indicate whether someone had shopped it or manipulated it in any nefarious way.
    Actually you're both wrong. In addition to the embedded EXIF sidecar files there are all kinds of readily available methods for detecting edits vs. raw unedited footage. This is true for both digital photos as well as video.

    It's something that is used in forensics every day.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 17,665
    DMKano said:

    People need to know that they can get reported with video evidence for hacking without doing anything wrong just because they piss off someone in game, and hackers can in fact  create a very damning video framing an innocent player.

    Spreading awareness is badmouthing?
    I just wish you would have been more diligent about spreading awareness and raising alarms with ArcheAge. Players would have been more aware. Daum/PA would have been held accountable earlier.

    Of course next time it might be good to find out if the alarm is real before you sound it, but then the damage is already done. Insider selective awareness?
    *INCOMING RADIOACTIVE SUPERCELL*
    ...silent protagonist, Interloper, Traveller, Anomaly...


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 17,665
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    If people are 'editing' video footage then i think that would also show up in the file itself as having been edited, as the programs involved have their own 'footprint'
    There is no such thing.
    Yep, on this we can agree. There is no version information in the file that would indicate whether someone had shopped it or manipulated it in any nefarious way.
    Actually you're both wrong. In addition to the embedded EXIF sidecar files there are all kinds of readily available methods for detecting edits vs. raw unedited footage. This is true for both digital photos as well as video.

    It's something that is used in forensics every day.
    You're not going to know exactly what was edited unless you open the file and look for the changes. How many files don't get edited, cropped, resized, converted from png to jpg, etc. There isn't anything in the file that says the nameplate was changed. And you can remove exif data.
    *INCOMING RADIOACTIVE SUPERCELL*
    ...silent protagonist, Interloper, Traveller, Anomaly...


  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER Member UncommonPosts: 508
    edited April 2016
    you can find  hack for everything, but that hard find a mmorpg curently out who got big vulnerability like that and have launch, that not like a bugs exploited ( can be fixed fast ) or just some error code !!

    that the core game system error !!! and we only just got a port here !! the game asian.

    others that ban the new hacker each time ( and who know how many do it sneaky ) the game econnony already ruined, peoples have farmed mats, ect, ect ect

    the game ruined.

    at this point, they should work on their core game system, and launch many new server again with no transfer option, that the only way !!

    others game like the division have put some stuft client side but not everything, and it was in beta from dev from over there, they have fix it easy before release

    others mmorpg got exploit, like elder scroll online dupe, was a error, got fixed fast

    the problem far more problematic with this games when the base game features are inside everyone client!!!




    Post edited by RPGMASTERGAMER on
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,588
    edited April 2016
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    If people are 'editing' video footage then i think that would also show up in the file itself as having been edited, as the programs involved have their own 'footprint'
    There is no such thing.
    Yep, on this we can agree. There is no version information in the file that would indicate whether someone had shopped it or manipulated it in any nefarious way.
    Actually you're both wrong. In addition to the embedded EXIF sidecar files there are all kinds of readily available methods for detecting edits vs. raw unedited footage. This is true for both digital photos as well as video.

    It's something that is used in forensics every day.
    You're not going to know exactly what was edited unless you open the file and look for the changes. How many files don't get edited, cropped, resized, converted from png to jpg, etc. There isn't anything in the file that says the nameplate was changed. And you can remove exif data.
    Only people who are aware of EXIF info in the first place, and that certainly isn't your average run of the mill game hacker, would even think of stripping it and that would also be your first tip off that something funky is going on.

    But beyond the EXIF most video editing software also embeds info... which can also be stripped and raise even more suspicion. This is all before you get into video analysis software that looks for artifact patterns. 

    None of this is new. It has been around as long as video imaging has been around. And the edit detection software has gotten very sophisticated.

    As it happens, digital photo editing (and a bit of video) is something I've done on a semipro basis for about 20 years.

     
    Post edited by Iselin on
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 1,952
    edited April 2016
    Iselin said:
    AnnaTS said:
    The hackers are the problem and they are the ones to blame seeing as they are the ones causing the problem for others and seems like Daum is doing something so i think they are protecting their property the hackers are the ones who decided to hack the property.


    It's hard for trolls to resist the temptation to bash a game for real, exaggerated or even made up flaws.

    That's why they focus on bashing Daum and Pearl Abyss instead of the hackers themselves.


    In Oklahoma, it is not illegal for a man to orally rape a woman who is unconscious after drinking too much alcohol.

    If a situation were to arise where a woman was found to have dna on her mouth and it came out that she was taken advantage of while passed out, and when it came to take the issue to court, the DA had no choice but to say what the man did to her was not illegal and thus he could not be prosecuted....

    Would you A. Blame the man and only the man. or B. Blame the state for having such a gross oversight in their laws. or C. Blame the man...and the state for their gross oversight for their laws?

    Most reasonable people would pick C. You, you are choosing A. You are not a reasonable person.

    PS. That scenario is 100% fact, it did happen and the law has not been changed as of yet.
    Post edited by Sephiroso on

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    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,027
    ....and here goes more wisdom. I was right betiing on you having more to share :)
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,588
    Sephiroso said:
    Iselin said:
    AnnaTS said:
    The hackers are the problem and they are the ones to blame seeing as they are the ones causing the problem for others and seems like Daum is doing something so i think they are protecting their property the hackers are the ones who decided to hack the property.


    It's hard for trolls to resist the temptation to bash a game for real, exaggerated or even made up flaws.

    That's why they focus on bashing Daum and Pearl Abyss instead of the hackers themselves.


    In Oklahoma, it is not illegal for a man to orally rape a woman who is unconscious after drinking too much alcohol.

    If a situation were to arise where a woman was found to have dna on her mouth and it came out that she was taken advantage of while passed out, and when it came to take the issue to court, the DA had no choice but to say what the man did to her was not illegal and thus he could not be prosecuted....

    Would you A. Blame the man and only the man. or B. Blame the state for having such a gross oversight in their laws. or C. Blame the man...and the state for their gross oversight for their laws?

    Most reasonable people would pick C. You, you are choosing A. You are not a reasonable person.

    PS. That scenario is 100% fact, it did happen and the law has not been changed as of yet.
    Thank you for your disgusting example but what does that have to do with why trolls seize on real, exaggerated or made-up issues?



    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,588
    Gdemami said:
    ....and here goes more wisdom. I was right betiing on you having more to share :)
    If there's one constant in this forum is that the supercilious troll will show up.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 1,952
    edited April 2016
    Iselin said:
    Sephiroso said:
    Iselin said:
    AnnaTS said:
    The hackers are the problem and they are the ones to blame seeing as they are the ones causing the problem for others and seems like Daum is doing something so i think they are protecting their property the hackers are the ones who decided to hack the property.


    It's hard for trolls to resist the temptation to bash a game for real, exaggerated or even made up flaws.

    That's why they focus on bashing Daum and Pearl Abyss instead of the hackers themselves.


    In Oklahoma, it is not illegal for a man to orally rape a woman who is unconscious after drinking too much alcohol.

    If a situation were to arise where a woman was found to have dna on her mouth and it came out that she was taken advantage of while passed out, and when it came to take the issue to court, the DA had no choice but to say what the man did to her was not illegal and thus he could not be prosecuted....

    Would you A. Blame the man and only the man. or B. Blame the state for having such a gross oversight in their laws. or C. Blame the man...and the state for their gross oversight for their laws?

    Most reasonable people would pick C. You, you are choosing A. You are not a reasonable person.

    PS. That scenario is 100% fact, it did happen and the law has not been changed as of yet.
    Thank you for your disgusting example but what does that have to do with why trolls seize on real, exaggerated or made-up issues?



    The man raping the woman is players hacking. The state having such a gross oversight in their laws is Daum having all these key processes left in the client for players to mess with. You telling people they should blame hackers and not Daum, is you telling people to blame only the guy that raped the woman, and not blame the state that had their laws in place such that what he did was not illegal.

    I thought you were at least intelligent enough to see the parallels. I'm sorry i overestimated you.

    P.S. Proof since you seem to think i was lying?
    Post edited by Sephiroso on

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    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,588
    Sephiroso said:
    Iselin said:
    Sephiroso said:
    Iselin said:
    AnnaTS said:
    The hackers are the problem and they are the ones to blame seeing as they are the ones causing the problem for others and seems like Daum is doing something so i think they are protecting their property the hackers are the ones who decided to hack the property.


    It's hard for trolls to resist the temptation to bash a game for real, exaggerated or even made up flaws.

    That's why they focus on bashing Daum and Pearl Abyss instead of the hackers themselves.


    In Oklahoma, it is not illegal for a man to orally rape a woman who is unconscious after drinking too much alcohol.

    If a situation were to arise where a woman was found to have dna on her mouth and it came out that she was taken advantage of while passed out, and when it came to take the issue to court, the DA had no choice but to say what the man did to her was not illegal and thus he could not be prosecuted....

    Would you A. Blame the man and only the man. or B. Blame the state for having such a gross oversight in their laws. or C. Blame the man...and the state for their gross oversight for their laws?

    Most reasonable people would pick C. You, you are choosing A. You are not a reasonable person.

    PS. That scenario is 100% fact, it did happen and the law has not been changed as of yet.
    Thank you for your disgusting example but what does that have to do with why trolls seize on real, exaggerated or made-up issues?



    The man raping the woman is players hacking. The state having such a gross oversight in their laws is Daum having all these key processes left in the client for players to mess with. You telling people they should blame hackers and not Daum, is you telling people to blame only the guy that raped the woman, and not blame the state that had their laws in place such that what he did was not illegal.

    I thought you were at least intelligent enough to see the parallels. I'm sorry i overestimated you.

    P.S. Proof since you seem to think i was lying?
    But I don't live in Oklahoma and you don't play this game, do you?
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,716
    Sephiroso said:
    Iselin said:
    AnnaTS said:
    The hackers are the problem and they are the ones to blame seeing as they are the ones causing the problem for others and seems like Daum is doing something so i think they are protecting their property the hackers are the ones who decided to hack the property.


    It's hard for trolls to resist the temptation to bash a game for real, exaggerated or even made up flaws.

    That's why they focus on bashing Daum and Pearl Abyss instead of the hackers themselves.


    In Oklahoma, it is not illegal for a man to orally rape a woman who is unconscious after drinking too much alcohol.

    If a situation were to arise where a woman was found to have dna on her mouth and it came out that she was taken advantage of while passed out, and when it came to take the issue to court, the DA had no choice but to say what the man did to her was not illegal and thus he could not be prosecuted....

    Would you A. Blame the man and only the man. or B. Blame the state for having such a gross oversight in their laws. or C. Blame the man...and the state for their gross oversight for their laws?

    Most reasonable people would pick C. You, you are choosing A. You are not a reasonable person.

    PS. That scenario is 100% fact, it did happen and the law has not been changed as of yet.
    A is the correct answer.

    You cannot "blame the state" for not having an appropriately specific law for every possible crime that could ever be committed. That is truly unreasonable.

    But you could probably blame the legal team for being inept. I find it surprising that the "incident" (apparently it's still legal ?) was not prosecuted under sexual abuse or assault rulings. Does that DA still have their job ?
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    so did nobody take advantage of this stuff in korea and it took releasing in the west for all of the hackers to show up?
    It is a cultural problem. Chinese, Japanese and Koreans don't think games as "just games", they think of it as any other competition and most of them try to be as fair as possible. Gaming in far east is like Football in England, you do drugs in football you are shamed and ridiculed and get behind bars sometimes too; you cheat in computer/console games in far east you almost get the same treatment, except chance of going to jail is nearly zero. So these kind of shitty so called client side security system works there but not in west.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Ramajama said:
    @DMKano ;
    It seems like you go out of your way to badmouth this game. Can you please tell me why? I am very interested - both for myself and for my class.


    OP is just trying to help. We can all see that :smiley: 

    For some strange reason he is happy if less people come and play BDO (not that it matters). Probably hoping that they will go to Archeage lol
    At this moment buddy, Archeage is far better than BDO. Laugh all you like but if someone asks me to suggest a proper mmorpg now, i will suggest AA in a heartbeat not only because it is not "communism online" but also because how Trion is now handling from cheating/botting to gold selling.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 1,952
    edited April 2016
    Sephiroso said:
    Iselin said:
    AnnaTS said:
    The hackers are the problem and they are the ones to blame seeing as they are the ones causing the problem for others and seems like Daum is doing something so i think they are protecting their property the hackers are the ones who decided to hack the property.


    It's hard for trolls to resist the temptation to bash a game for real, exaggerated or even made up flaws.

    That's why they focus on bashing Daum and Pearl Abyss instead of the hackers themselves.


    In Oklahoma, it is not illegal for a man to orally rape a woman who is unconscious after drinking too much alcohol.

    If a situation were to arise where a woman was found to have dna on her mouth and it came out that she was taken advantage of while passed out, and when it came to take the issue to court, the DA had no choice but to say what the man did to her was not illegal and thus he could not be prosecuted....

    Would you A. Blame the man and only the man. or B. Blame the state for having such a gross oversight in their laws. or C. Blame the man...and the state for their gross oversight for their laws?

    Most reasonable people would pick C. You, you are choosing A. You are not a reasonable person.

    PS. That scenario is 100% fact, it did happen and the law has not been changed as of yet.
    A is the correct answer.

    You cannot "blame the state" for not having an appropriately specific law for every possible crime that could ever be committed. That is truly unreasonable.

    But you could probably blame the legal team for being inept. I find it surprising that the "incident" (apparently it's still legal ?) was not prosecuted under sexual abuse or assault rulings. Does that DA still have their job ?
    You cannot blame the state if it was some obscure, almost never to happen thing. You'd be right. But rape isn't some obscure thing that you can't really predict. Especially when its rape when someone is unconscious or otherwise unable to provide consent.

    Likewise, it is entirely reasonable to blame Daum(in addition to the hackers themselves) for such a gross oversight in handing so many key controls to the players by having them in the client. This is 2016, there are certain things in game development that were learned over the last 15 years that are clear "Do's and Don'ts". Having all this shit on the client is one of the Don'ts that is pretty much 100% recognized as a foolish endeavor.

    Everything that is happening was easily preventable and should have been prevented. Would this stop 100% hacks? No, no one is saying it would. But it shouldn't be this widespread and this easy, which is what we are saying.
    Post edited by Sephiroso on

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  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,716
    so did nobody take advantage of this stuff in korea and it took releasing in the west for all of the hackers to show up?
    It is a cultural problem. Chinese, Japanese and Koreans don't think games as "just games", they think of it as any other competition and most of them try to be as fair as possible. Gaming in far east is like Football in England, you do drugs in football you are shamed and ridiculed and get behind bars sometimes too; you cheat in computer/console games in far east you almost get the same treatment, except chance of going to jail is nearly zero. So these kind of shitty so called client side security system works there but not in west.
    That's about the only explanation that makes sense to me.

    Cultural attitudes protect the games in the east, because it certainly can't be the supposed Korean ID requirement that does. That is wide open to abuse in itself.
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