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Which elements should a good MMORPG have?

Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
I mean the:

 > concept,

> game model,

> payment model,

> server model,

> gameplay,

> graphics

and everything that makes an MMORPG from foundations to completed product.


           My two cents on that established models by leading companies could with fine-tuning and inovative concept, in time through the future of gaming only shift concept, combat model, and graphics.

It is known that AAA projects cost much ,and making them Sub>B2p>F2p>P2w only provides a fraction of income they could possibly net if their servers could attract a loyal playerbase from lets say Moba pool and keep them for 5-8 years at the least.
Its now proven now and with many examples that p2w component is inversely proportional to server health.

How to keep the players? Simple.Keep most of the playerbase content with frequent updates and make profits without p2w component. Invest in witty convenience and costume items without endangering the very balance and gameplay.


         Now, what MMORPG Should have differs in so many ways and tastes, but like you have standards in movies, you have in games.
Movies have actors, plot, scenography, and directors. Things change in so many ways, but these factors remain.

Some factors should be standardized for MMO Virtual Online games as well.

They can differ in types of genre:

>Sci-fi/RPG / Fantasy/ Survival/Shooter/ Strategy
etc

They can differ in other things as well:

>Open World/Instanced , Localisation of game world, Types of moving through the game world, Factions, Instanced/Temporary/Open World Housing, Dungeon/Raiding Trinity adaptibility, PvP Rules, Crafting and Resource Gathering relevance, Equalised/Gear relevant/Flag relevant Open world Pvp, Shared/Split Open World Pve objectives
, and MANY other elements.

My personal oppinion for a good mmorpg model is that of a:

Open World Zone Level Equalised PvP, Open World Player Tax dependant Housing, Complex Crafting and Gathering system implemented into the Housing and living world, True Dynamic Region Events , True Dynamic Faction Events for resource and boss control, Hybrid Combat/Targeting System, All elements of the game being new user friendly but having micromanagement options for advanced players.

     Standards in online gaming are very low these years and they should exist.






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Comments

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    can anyone guess why I am posting this image for this OP


    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    SEANMCAD said:
    can anyone guess why I am posting this image for this OP


    Yeah, but if you see it that way, that nothing can be done to improve the genre, why bother.

    I for one think improvement must come from the payment model, thats main problem nowadays.

    Also inovation, is not just a word.
  • HeronnHeronn Member UncommonPosts: 39
    The genre is already constantly improving lol, MMOs do not more love... plenty of other niches that do really need it.

    AND UNLIKE MMOS they do not cash grab. *ooooo* shots fired at myself...

    *ahem* so anyway I also believe that plain old tab targeting is outdated and a hybrid action/sitting back IS the way forward that some of the newer generation mmo's have demonstrated like neverwinter or guild wars.

    Resource gathering needs to be automated mostly, the times when I was dedicated enough to multi box just to see some ingame money have dissipated from me. If there could be a newer way to earn currency it would be more convenient for someone such as I atleast without moving the mouse like I am causing havoc.



    uhhhhh you know this could just go on forever so I will save myself the trouble
  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Member RarePosts: 1,985
    I mean the:

     > concept,

    > game model,

    > payment model,

    > server model,

    > gameplay,

    > graphics

    and everything that makes an MMORPG from foundations to completed product.


    That is a lot of topics for one thread. o.O

    My ideal MMO (not specifically an MMORPG) would be kind of like this (though it's hard to thoroughly answer so many questions at once):

    Payment: Free trial + sub of $15-20 per month.  That's probably not a realistic way to make money, but philosophically it's my favorite, as both a player and a designer.

    Server Model: All servers share the same auction house, except in the case of a sandbox or strategy mmo which is designed to restart regularly.  If there is more than one server, they are split into an 18+ uncensored server and a pg rated family server.  No need for more than 2 servers for any kind of RPG unless the game's population grows beyond all expectation.

    Graphics: Must be high res, I don't care if it's 2D or 3D but no pixels or voxels.  Style should be either one of the more grown-up anime styles or a fantasy realism which is more on the colorful side and less on the gritty everything-is-beige side.

    Game Model: A sandpark where precreated NPC towns and dungeons provide the themepark areas of the map, suburbs allow players to construct housing and do housing-based crafting such as growing crops and breeding pets, and the rest of the map is open-world sandpark where players mainly solo monsters and gather crafting mats.  There is no PvP in the main game world, only through a lobby/arena/battleground system.  Similarly, players cannot create their own factions, instead they can choose one or more NPC factions to gain reputation and rank with.  There are no predefined classes; instead players' choices among a pool of skills, cards, or combat units determines their abilities like a personalized class.

    Concept and Gameplay: Now this is the part I actually find really interesting to think about.  I want to see a game with a strong story; a story which has humor, adventure, romance, and mystery, but NOT horror, excessive violence, etc.  This should be a story aimed at adults, not children; perhaps aimed primarily at women in terms of content, though treating male and female players equally.  Personally I like fantasy that ISN'T high fantasy.  (For example biofantasy or pre-historic fantasy/tribal fantasy, or ninja fantasy... there are lots of options.  But absolutely no goddamn elves, dwarves, zombies, necromancers, or vampires, ugh.)  This should be an INTERACTIVE story where each player's decisions and actions shape who their avatar becomes within the virtual world of the game.

    The player should be able to EARN a lot of options to customize their character, but shouldn't just be given them for free before the start of the game; all newbie avatars should be the equivalent of teenagers with minimal skills and bland appearances, who are about to set off on their personal journeys into a magical and mysterious world.  The importance of customizations as quest rewards is why the sub payment model is a more obvious choice than a cash shop model.

    As a game where players are intended to have only one avatar, players should be able to do basically everything in the game world with that one avatar, given enough time.  (I HATE caps on how many types of crafting an avatar can do - that's one thing that will make me refuse to even try a game.)  A player who took a balanced approach to doing everything would spend about 25% of their time in combat, 25% of their time gathering and crafting, and 25% of their time playing minigames (counting PvP and things like racing against other players as minigames).  But it should also be easy for players with a heavy preference for one type of gameplay to just do that and exchange the results through the global marketplace for stuff gathered or produced by players doing other types of gameplay.


    So Andel, I wonder what you can do with this data?  I mean, it's what the thread title asks for, but it disagrees a lot with your ideal.  So is it actually useful?
    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    A good MMORPG just needs one element IMO, co-dependency. Without it you're left with a bunch of people doing their own thing (which is fine if that's what the players want)... With co-dependency, everything else falls into place, as players get conditioned to seek each other out.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • eldariseldaris Member UncommonPosts: 353
    Huge open world,with long traveling times, teleports or summoning limited to a few classes, good combat animations, armour decay, faction vs faction while allowing people not interested in pvp to go on with their activities, crafting, gathering, housing, fishing.
  • aleosaleos Member UncommonPosts: 1,942
    Freedom > Options > Choices > Exploration
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,359
    SEANMCAD said:
    can anyone guess why I am posting this image for this OP


    Because you think that angle-independent anisotropic filtering is an important element of good MMORPGs, even though it's handled in video drivers and not directly by the game engine?
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    I would stick to the periodic table personally.

    Personally, I want EVE Online on a planet with a wide range of different vehicles from Mechs, to Tanks to Strykers.  No foot infantry tho.  Come up with some reason such as the atmosphere is too caustic and hostile to support anything but environmentally sealed vehicles.

    There's mining, there's manufacturing, there are "safe" empires and wild fringe zones where the good mining is to be found.  There are indigenous creatures that must be kept in check which get bigger and uglier the further you get from civilization.
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,256
    Repeatable and Loopy with collecting and no restrict progressions .

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,590
    Distopia said:
    A good MMORPG just needs one element IMO, co-dependency. Without it you're left with a bunch of people doing their own thing (which is fine if that's what the players want)... With co-dependency, everything else falls into place, as players get conditioned to seek each other out.
    As I feel interaction is the greatest distinguishing feature a MMORPG can have, I'll use the "F" word here and say players should be forced to interact with each other, both positively and negatively.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    Kyleran said:
    Distopia said:
    A good MMORPG just needs one element IMO, co-dependency. Without it you're left with a bunch of people doing their own thing (which is fine if that's what the players want)... With co-dependency, everything else falls into place, as players get conditioned to seek each other out.
    As I feel interaction is the greatest distinguishing feature a MMORPG can have, I'll use the "F" word here and say players should be forced to interact with each other, both positively and negatively.
    Yeah.  This genre has years of conditioning players to be sensitive and get increasing features for their every whim. 
  • UbradolUbradol Member UncommonPosts: 45
    Tons of player-interaction, big loss upon death(!!), guildwars/great pvp.. a well-thought out fantasy-world with huge lore and history.

    Graphics? Don't care, at all.. basically. :pleased: 
    www.Argardh.com F2P, Open-source with low-req/graphic MMORPG launching Open-Beta on 23rd August. Based on Tibia 8.6
    Follow us: www.facebook.com/Argardh Youtube-channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UCNmxHWGpO790r-4wn4AEeSA

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,759
    edited May 2016
    Be a open living breathing world, not a themepark.

    - Original lore and setting; if you cannot manage to invent your own world, don't make a mmorpg.. period.
    - Focus purely on either pve or pvp; All parts of the entire game concepts will be affected by how class/roles/build/whatever are designed, and these should be very different in a pvp vs a pve game.
    - Have coop mechanics in form of roles, support, crafting, travelling and whatever fits the game world; also includes interaction with other players in non combat situations.
    - RNG in as many areas as possible, drops, stats, combat (misses, fizzle, effect power, etc), npc choices and movement; basically make it a dynamic and "unique" personal experience.
    - Risk vs reward, and challenges at varying degrees; fitting the game in question.
    - Minimum flow-breakers aka things that are out-of-character, this includes a multitude of things such as (not a complete list): shops & special currencies, share this on facebook, pop culture references and references to real life persons/events, suggestions from the game, game requiring voice chat to master.
    - Meaningful long progression, includes feeling of accomplishment,  no character scaling of any kind, no "max level"; your character ARE how you play and what you do, and you should feel rewarded for what you achieve.
    - Vast amount of content (think not themepark and stories but on game mechanics that provide content).
    - Dynamic changing world such as frequent content updates, world events (no not boss spawns) that changes npc/mob behaviors (ex. Orcs of the north become temporary aggressive and take some land, a new alliance of smugglers tries to get a foothold on planet x), living story (non-themepark style, aka not playable story content).
    - Deep tactical combat mechanics with many and unique ways to fight and cooperate.. twitch can work although in most games to date it has also meant shallow, so I would go for slower combat with longer fights.
    - Gear are either crafted or comes from the world, no armor vendors, no alternative currencies such as badges, gems, company-coins.
    ...
    Graphics or monetization models are not important, as long as they work and does not clash with the above.
    Post edited by kjempff on
  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph Member UncommonPosts: 1,361
    players interactions !
  • JermzyJermzy Member UncommonPosts: 211
    H2O, Titanium (TI), Iron (FE), Cobalt CO), Platinum (PT), Copper (CU) to name a few.  :)
    Haroo!
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:
    can anyone guess why I am posting this image for this OP


    Yeah, but if you see it that way, that nothing can be done to improve the genre, why bother.

    I for one think improvement must come from the payment model, thats main problem nowadays.

    Also inovation, is not just a word.
    WRONG GUESS!

    guess again

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • ZEXTEGZEXTEG Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited May 2016

    This is what i want/like in mmorpg's and whats kinda my ideal mmorpg 

    This is my first post ever so try to go easy on me and im really sorry for the long post and my english grammar.


    payment model 

    Personally to me the cost of the game doesn't matter aslong the as the cost isnt insane. I dont want the game to be pay to win. I also dont like it when games have multiple currencies.

    Graphics

    In the end graphics dont mean much for me but i would like the game to have a fantasy or anime stylish graphics where they would kinda create a more serious and realistic experience where monsters actually look like monsters. I do want high resolution graphics and customization to create appealing characters and let the players to create strong connections to the characters.

    gameplay and concept

    The world would be a large fantasy style sandbox with maybe somesort of tower system where going up the tower would mean more high level enemies and players. I want the game to also have weekly updates and massive events that would spice up the game for those who have already completed most of the game.

    Class, Race and your background

    I personally dont like having starting classes and races where your whole gameplay style will be forced in the beginning. I would rather just be given a character customization screen and then be thrown at the world with nothing. I also dont like it when a game throws free stuff towards you or forces you to slaughter a certain amount of enemies and come back. I also dont want the game to give me a predestined background where im some sort of hero or chosen one where im supposed to save the world or something. i want the game to give me the ability to choose what i want to do by myself and kinda choose my own destiny and past. I do want the game to have strong lore and maybe even a story that would kinda happen on the background aslong as its not forced upon the character.

    Skills

     I want the game to have two skill systems. One for skills and one for character. When talking about skill leveling i mean constant usage of a certain skill to gain experience with the skill and increase its ability. And when leveling up a character you would be given the choise to choose from abilities. I would like the game to have a large skill system giving the player ability to do almost anything he likes. For instance i would like the game to have a complex economy systen where you dont know the value of items until you have had them appraised. I also would like the game to be heavily crafting based where most of the clothes/armor/weapons and furniture could be crafted using the items you gain from the world and the stats of the crafted objects would be based on the material and the creators skill levels giving players with high crafting skills the ability to create objects for money. This would also force adventures to have interactions with other players and in the end drive a more player based economy. I also would like certain abilities to be given to those with the appropriate skill for it, for instance skinning a dead animal or smithing rare minerals.

    Rare stuff

    When talking about rare minerals i mean the word rare. You can never really gain anything rare if everyone else can gain it just as you did. What i want is actually rare things where you may find something that barely anyone else in the server would have or ever had. I would like rare things to appear in places where players normally wouldn't go for instance lairs of high level legendary creatures.



    Post edited by ZEXTEG on
  • ZEXTEGZEXTEG Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited May 2016

    Legendary creatures

    When im talking about legendary creatures i dont mean a hard to kill creature, i mean a creature that is close to impossible to beat. I want there to be a reason for creatures to be called legendary or epic where you just cant run to them and start battling them without a second thought. When killing a legendary or epic creature you would be given appropriate rewards for killing a near impossible to beat creature. I do want legendary creatures to vary from levels. Lets say theres a starting zone legendary creature somewhere. In the early game it would be impossible to beat but when you reach a certain level and equipment the creature would be easier to kill leading you to gain more powerfull rewards. I do like the idea of the game giving you the feeling of accomplishment after winning a hard fight against a legendary creature and reaching new levels. Dont missunderstand legendary creatures as bosses, they would be seriously high level creatures of its kind hiding somewhere on the level that would be hard to find and kill.

    Lets say you have killed many bosses and reached the end game zones and you could find a legendary dragon that lives on a mountain or something. And if you were to kill the dragon you would be given its scales to create a seriously powerful armor. I dont want the dragon to be easy to kill since the reward is really powerfull so i want the dragon to be hard to kill even for really high tier players to make farming the dragon impossible. And when gaining something as rare as the dragon scale armor, the armor would actually be recocnized by players as rare and not just as a high tier equipment for all the high tier players. 

    I do like the idea of a creature system where when a creature kills another creature or person it levels up and gains a massive stat boost to make it harder to kill next time and in the end turning it into a legendary creature. So if a ordinary creature were to kill a large amount of players, it would turn legendary. The game would at this point generate it a name and show other players that the creature is a legendary one.

    Bosses

    When talking about a boss, i want the boss to be a zone change typish thing where you have to fight a boss to move to the next zone. I dont want the bosses to be overpowered and really hard to kill. I want the bosses in the game to be zone balanced so that the starting zone boss will be fairly easy to kill when you have reached a high enough level. Boss is something that everyone would have to fight at somepoint but only once. 

    Owning property

    When talking about housing and owning property i do want you to be given the ability to own an apartment,shop or a farm. On farms you could grow your crops and different kind of animals. As a farmer you would have to take care of the crops and animals and not just leave them to grow. Shops would give the player the ability to create a trading system where he buys/creates his/hers own objects and sells them to players who dont have the skills to create objects themselves. No player can steal or kill anything on your property. You would also be given the ability to hire npc's to do some of the work so you wouldn't have to be always selling and farming stuff. I want the game to have a furniture placement system where you can turn objects around as you want with no grids. I also do want furniture have somesort of meanings giving the player a reason to buy a house and furniture.


    Taming animals

    I would like the game to also have pet/mount system where you can tame almost any creature as long as its a baby creature. The creature to grow would take a couple real life days and once its grown you could ride the creature depending on its size. I also do like the idea of growing rare high tier monsters to be pets and mounts. Lets just say you find a dragons nest and you steal the dragons eggs. I want the player to be given the ability to nurse the eggs into dragons and  have them as pets and/or ride them. 

    PvP/PvE, guilds and factions

    I dont want to force PvE player to PvP so i would like the game to have map/zones where you can steal from or kill players. You would be counted as a criminal and show other players that you have stolen from/killed a player. The game also would have npc criminal guilds and cities where you could join a group of bandits or thieves. When you join a bandit or thief guild the game would recognize you as part of the guild so bandit or thief enemies would not attack you. I want to have human leaders on npc criminal guilds where when a player kills the leader they become the leader and give you a high stat buff encouraging high level players to drive for pvp for the top spots in criminal guilds. But i do want murder to also have concequenses, for instance non-criminal cities would have npc guards that would kill you on sight aslong as you are counted as a criminal and players could see you as a red dot on the map. Criminal status would disappear on time aslong as you are not part of a criminal organization. The game would have factions like the law keeping factions and the criminal factions. The game would also have some sort of war factions where you could pvp without the killing another player penalties. Killing a person from another faction would reward you with faction points that increase your rank in the faction and reach ranks that reward you with faction items.

    Server model

    I would like the game to have really large servers since the game economy would be player driven while at the same time keeping the player counts reasonable. 



    and again sorry for the long post.
    Post edited by ZEXTEG on
  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 624
    Whichever elements work best in the specific target audience of the MMO.
    The elements can't be properly evaluated before defining the target audience of each game on an individual basis.
    "Good" is subjective and will mean very different things in different target demographics.

  • ZEXTEGZEXTEG Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited May 2016
    better? And what i was kinda going for was a game for everyone where you can just do what you want and have a wide target audience while at the same time not make the game a life simulation and keep it as a MMORPG. And i do understand that there are players that dont want to interact with other players so thats why i'd think it would be also useful to have a system where npc's create and trade stuff letting solo players play solo. There is also the taste in different graphics. According to google, people enjoy cartoonish games more than realistic ones. Personally i dont want a game that looks like a cartoon since its harder             ( for me atleast ) to get any feeling of danger from the enemies or create a connection with the character. I also dont want a ultra realistic looking game that destroys my framerate and all unique look in the game. What i think would be the best would be a mix of the two where the developers would try to drive for realistic looking enviroment and characters while keeping a cartoonish style. Maybe something like a mix of blade&soul, dragon's prophet and everquest next, where the game looks realistic while at the same time it would have its cartoonish and over exaggerated world designing giving the game a unique look and giving the characters more memorable looks. I do like the idea of massive pvp and pve floor/level/zones/realms where players who enjoy the feeling of danger and such could spend time in these zones, while at the same time trying to keep people from rage quitting and getting frustrated in the game after constant pvp deaths and ruining the gaming experience. These zones would also allow city raids and such giving the player more memorable pvp experiences and let players have pvp when they want to and are not made to force pvp or pve.
    Post edited by ZEXTEG on
  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Look at the most successful MMORPGs, copy the underlying fundamentals (the internal organs), choose a compelling aesthetic, and keep/discard whatever individual features (the skin) you're fond of.

    The most important thing is whatever set of activities you're doing moment-to-moment for the majority of a given session (those activities are the game.)

    Seems like many failed MMORPGs just lose sight of these basics, resulting in bad moment-to-moment gameplay, which causes them to shed players rapidly.  It's not easy to do this really well, but it becomes that much harder if you don't make it a focus.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 565
    Facebook / twitter /whateverthefugsocialbsapp full integration.
  • DeivosDeivos Member EpicPosts: 3,692
    edited May 2016
    Axehilt said:
    Look at the most successful MMORPGs, copy the underlying fundamentals (the internal organs), choose a compelling aesthetic, and keep/discard whatever individual features (the skin) you're fond of.
    Actually if you look at the bulk of failed games, that's the exact formula they were following.

    Cookie-cutter game design is not good game design. It floods the market with many titles that inevitably under-perform and rapidly lose player retention because of the samey nature of the experience. Some manage to hit it off with just solid user experience or good narrative, but the bulk of titles that go through the motion of ripping off the same gameplay as every other success inevitably fail because if you want a game like that really good one, you're going to play the really good one. Not the Nth knockoff that's come in it's wake.

    The right thing to look for on a good game design in general and not just an MMO would be to consider a key concept your game will operate around and build the user experience to focus on that. Splaying your concept out too broadly, encompassing too many feature sets, or changing directions on major game components are all very common mistakes in the industry that cause many developers to go under before they even have a complete/viable product.

    So pick what the core theme and mechanics are of the game, and consider what features can help flesh out those pieces into a complete user experience. Taking a page from existing games is good as a reference on implementation of certain mechanics and how to do or not do them, but don't copy something and expect success.
    Post edited by Deivos on

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    too much question but a successful AAA mmorpg always has medieval setting
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