Remoras are the problem not Whales.

jesteralways

Robokapp said:

It is my duty as an anti-F2P player to expose weaknesses that will eventually crumble this cancerous industry trend.

No dude, you know what will happen? There will be outrageous $$ value mandatory monthly sub along with pay2win cash shop in AAA mmorpg soon enough and it will become so normal that players in game will insult each other for not having limited edition costume that was found in gambling box on cash shop. And if someone is just wearing in game armor without cash shop costume, they will become the target of insult and harassment, players who would not have cash shop armor would be bottom feeder and would constantly be harassed for leeching off of the whales. And no one will give 2 tin shit.

SEANMCAD

jesteralways said:

Robokapp said:

It is my duty as an anti-F2P player to expose weaknesses that will eventually crumble this cancerous industry trend.

No dude, you know what will happen? There will be outrageous $$ value mandatory monthly sub along with pay2win cash shop in AAA mmorpg soon enough and it will become so normal that players in game will insult each other for not having limited edition costume that was found in gambling box on cash shop. And if someone is just wearing in game armor without cash shop costume, they will become the target of insult and harassment, players who would not have cash shop armor would be bottom feeder and would constantly be harassed for leeching off of the whales. And no one will give 2 tin shit.

I find it extreemly hard to believe that people give 2 shits if people wear or dont wear cash shop armour. i dont know because I dont talk to gamers in game but I still find it hard to believe

Tasslehoff35

jesteralways said:

Robokapp said:

It is my duty as an anti-F2P player to expose weaknesses that will eventually crumble this cancerous industry trend.

No dude, you know what will happen? There will be outrageous $$ value mandatory monthly sub along with pay2win cash shop in AAA mmorpg soon enough and it will become so normal that players in game will insult each other for not having limited edition costume that was found in gambling box on cash shop. And if someone is just wearing in game armor without cash shop costume, they will become the target of insult and harassment, players who would not have cash shop armor would be bottom feeder and would constantly be harassed for leeching off of the whales. And no one will give 2 tin shit.

Haha you can't be serious.  The only ones who give a damn what outfit or pet you have are the freeloaders.  They are the ones who harass people who spend money on a hobby they enjoy who try to make them feel guilty because they have extra money to put towards their hobby.  

Again this p2w that is so widely used on this site is nothing more then a fairy tale made up by the freeloades.  Most of the western mmos have nothing in their cash shops that give players an advantage over the others...again unless you think riding around on different mount or being able to do a different emote is an advantage...

Tasslehoff35

SEANMCAD said:

jesteralways said:

Robokapp said:

It is my duty as an anti-F2P player to expose weaknesses that will eventually crumble this cancerous industry trend.

No dude, you know what will happen? There will be outrageous $$ value mandatory monthly sub along with pay2win cash shop in AAA mmorpg soon enough and it will become so normal that players in game will insult each other for not having limited edition costume that was found in gambling box on cash shop. And if someone is just wearing in game armor without cash shop costume, they will become the target of insult and harassment, players who would not have cash shop armor would be bottom feeder and would constantly be harassed for leeching off of the whales. And no one will give 2 tin shit.

I find it extreemly hard to believe that people give 2 shits if people wear or dont wear cash shop armour. i dont know because I dont talk to gamers in game but I still find it hard to believe

Wow this might be a first Sean we agree on something.  If Jest actually believes what he wrote he clearly has zero knowledge on the subject. 

SEANMCAD

Tasslehoff35 said:

SEANMCAD said:

jesteralways said:

Robokapp said:

It is my duty as an anti-F2P player to expose weaknesses that will eventually crumble this cancerous industry trend.

No dude, you know what will happen? There will be outrageous $$ value mandatory monthly sub along with pay2win cash shop in AAA mmorpg soon enough and it will become so normal that players in game will insult each other for not having limited edition costume that was found in gambling box on cash shop. And if someone is just wearing in game armor without cash shop costume, they will become the target of insult and harassment, players who would not have cash shop armor would be bottom feeder and would constantly be harassed for leeching off of the whales. And no one will give 2 tin shit.

I find it extreemly hard to believe that people give 2 shits if people wear or dont wear cash shop armour. i dont know because I dont talk to gamers in game but I still find it hard to believe

Wow this might be a first Sean we agree on something.  If Jest actually believes what he wrote he clearly has zero knowledge on the subject. 

yes it is bizzare. I also agree that the only people who care about who is wearing what are the people not spending the money.
HOWEVER...i dont agree its most of them nor a cancer on gaming. Those are the same people who always blame the game when they loose a battle

danwest58

Sevala said:

They both suck. Hence why any game past the subscription model has sucked, generally speaking.

100% this OP.  F2P games are Wallet Wars.  F2P players normally are there to only say the game has more people.  Whales are there to drive up the spending of everyone because we need to account for Free players.

The only Fair model is P2P. Either you pay and can play or you go crying elsewhere.  

FlyByKnight

This whole "if I have the money I should be able to beat you at a video game" is the most Murica Idiocracy spoiled brat thing ever. You have got to be a pretty lame human being to even subscribe to that type of cornball mentality. Then when people call fools on this, the conversation turns into "well you're a poor freeloader". It's a GAME.

Can you imagine P2W Checkers? People who just play it are "freeloaders". The douche nozzle who pays $1500 for a chance to drink a beer with the guy who invented it, gets to start with all gold king pieces

"My $1500 investment is why... you ppl even get to play video games. I'm important. I know ppl. I know the guy who made this game... he responds to me on forums, might even make GM baby. YUP!"

filmoret

Tasslehoff35 said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

holdenhamlet said:

Nasa said:

holdenhamlet said:

1. The only reason f2p works is because of whales.  Not many people like the f2p model.
2. People that don't spend any money don't influence anything.
   

1. Source?. Players vote with their wallet and time. If the game and model is bad they don't play. I think f2p has a big part of League of Legends success.
2. Ever heard of players as content?. Other players keep the guilds and game active.

So why do you think whales are badmouthed?

Very few mmorpgs have advantages in their shops.  Most are cosmetic or decorations for the player housing. 

I can't believe you just said that.  Very few mmorpg's don't have advantages.  For every mmorpg you find that doesn't have pay to win cash shop I can show you 2 that do.  Noone cares about whales in GW2 or Eve because it doesn't really impact other players.  But in Archeage or Shaiya then you are gonna either fork over a few thousand or die repeatedly.

Please very few mmorpgs have advantages unless you are playing a Korean or Asian mmo.  But since this site is mainly western players my comment was directed at western mmos so I am still 100% correct.  

Really?  Name a few f2p that aren't pay to win.  I cant really think of any right now.

SEANMCAD

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

holdenhamlet said:

Nasa said:

holdenhamlet said:

1. The only reason f2p works is because of whales.  Not many people like the f2p model.
2. People that don't spend any money don't influence anything.
   

1. Source?. Players vote with their wallet and time. If the game and model is bad they don't play. I think f2p has a big part of League of Legends success.
2. Ever heard of players as content?. Other players keep the guilds and game active.

So why do you think whales are badmouthed?

Very few mmorpgs have advantages in their shops.  Most are cosmetic or decorations for the player housing. 

I can't believe you just said that.  Very few mmorpg's don't have advantages.  For every mmorpg you find that doesn't have pay to win cash shop I can show you 2 that do.  Noone cares about whales in GW2 or Eve because it doesn't really impact other players.  But in Archeage or Shaiya then you are gonna either fork over a few thousand or die repeatedly.

Please very few mmorpgs have advantages unless you are playing a Korean or Asian mmo.  But since this site is mainly western players my comment was directed at western mmos so I am still 100% correct.  

Really?  Name a few f2p that aren't pay to win.  I cant really think of any right now.

buying a game...any game...is pay to win. people need to let the whol P2W meme die. Most people are not NEARLY that competitive to give a shit either way

Scot

I actually like suckerfish better.

FlyByKnight

Non-sensical statement followed by a made up stat on what people care about.

Source: Gluteus Maximus

sayuu

Whales are not the problem, remoras are not the problem.

the attitude of the OP is the problem.

laserit

When I lose to someone in a game....

I want to be *Out-Played* not *Out-Payed*

If the difference between winning and losing is how much money you spent. It's not a game, it's a milking machine. 

SEANMCAD

laserit said:

When I lose to someone in a game....

I want to be *Out-Played* not *Out-Payed*

If the difference between winning and losing is how much money you spent. It's not a game, it's a milking machine. 

frankly? why is prooving your gaming computer skills really that important in the first place I will never understand

laserit

SEANMCAD said:

laserit said:

When I lose to someone in a game....

I want to be *Out-Played* not *Out-Payed*

If the difference between winning and losing is how much money you spent. It's not a game, it's a milking machine. 

frankly? why is prooving your gaming computer skills really that important in the first place I will never understand

Is this a criticism? or an addendum?

Personally I play "games" for entertainment and fun. Whether it be Monopoly, Crazy Eights,COD or WoW.

I like to be engaged, I like to laugh, I like to smile and I like socialize.

I have fun whether I win or lose.

Therefore I always win.

I don't have to prove anything to anyone.

I not that shallow and/or insecure.

kjempff

Uhm whales and "remoras" are symbiotic, one cannot exist without the other and are the result of the other. Therefore it makes no sense to say one is better than the other.
All you can really say is, those who make monetization systems, decides whether whales and "remoras" exist in their game.

filmoret

SEANMCAD said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

holdenhamlet said:

Nasa said:

holdenhamlet said:

1. The only reason f2p works is because of whales.  Not many people like the f2p model.
2. People that don't spend any money don't influence anything.
   

1. Source?. Players vote with their wallet and time. If the game and model is bad they don't play. I think f2p has a big part of League of Legends success.
2. Ever heard of players as content?. Other players keep the guilds and game active.

So why do you think whales are badmouthed?

Very few mmorpgs have advantages in their shops.  Most are cosmetic or decorations for the player housing. 

I can't believe you just said that.  Very few mmorpg's don't have advantages.  For every mmorpg you find that doesn't have pay to win cash shop I can show you 2 that do.  Noone cares about whales in GW2 or Eve because it doesn't really impact other players.  But in Archeage or Shaiya then you are gonna either fork over a few thousand or die repeatedly.

Please very few mmorpgs have advantages unless you are playing a Korean or Asian mmo.  But since this site is mainly western players my comment was directed at western mmos so I am still 100% correct.  

Really?  Name a few f2p that aren't pay to win.  I cant really think of any right now.

buying a game...any game...is pay to win. people need to let the whol P2W meme die. Most people are not NEARLY that competitive to give a shit either way

So when you buy metal gear v, Witcher 3, or any other game right now.  That is considered pay to win?  You see how silly your statement was just now?

SEANMCAD

filmoret said:

SEANMCAD said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

holdenhamlet said:

Nasa said:

holdenhamlet said:

1. The only reason f2p works is because of whales.  Not many people like the f2p model.
2. People that don't spend any money don't influence anything.
   

1. Source?. Players vote with their wallet and time. If the game and model is bad they don't play. I think f2p has a big part of League of Legends success.
2. Ever heard of players as content?. Other players keep the guilds and game active.

So why do you think whales are badmouthed?

Very few mmorpgs have advantages in their shops.  Most are cosmetic or decorations for the player housing. 

I can't believe you just said that.  Very few mmorpg's don't have advantages.  For every mmorpg you find that doesn't have pay to win cash shop I can show you 2 that do.  Noone cares about whales in GW2 or Eve because it doesn't really impact other players.  But in Archeage or Shaiya then you are gonna either fork over a few thousand or die repeatedly.

Please very few mmorpgs have advantages unless you are playing a Korean or Asian mmo.  But since this site is mainly western players my comment was directed at western mmos so I am still 100% correct.  

Really?  Name a few f2p that aren't pay to win.  I cant really think of any right now.

buying a game...any game...is pay to win. people need to let the whol P2W meme die. Most people are not NEARLY that competitive to give a shit either way

So when you buy metal gear v, Witcher 3, or any other game right now.  That is considered pay to win?  You see how silly your statement was just now?

yes of course

because the arguments of pay to win eventually get that stupid anyway so I thought I would just bring it down to the level its going to go anyway 

filmoret

SEANMCAD said:

filmoret said:

SEANMCAD said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

holdenhamlet said:

Nasa said:

holdenhamlet said:

1. The only reason f2p works is because of whales.  Not many people like the f2p model.
2. People that don't spend any money don't influence anything.
   

1. Source?. Players vote with their wallet and time. If the game and model is bad they don't play. I think f2p has a big part of League of Legends success.
2. Ever heard of players as content?. Other players keep the guilds and game active.

So why do you think whales are badmouthed?

Very few mmorpgs have advantages in their shops.  Most are cosmetic or decorations for the player housing. 

I can't believe you just said that.  Very few mmorpg's don't have advantages.  For every mmorpg you find that doesn't have pay to win cash shop I can show you 2 that do.  Noone cares about whales in GW2 or Eve because it doesn't really impact other players.  But in Archeage or Shaiya then you are gonna either fork over a few thousand or die repeatedly.

Please very few mmorpgs have advantages unless you are playing a Korean or Asian mmo.  But since this site is mainly western players my comment was directed at western mmos so I am still 100% correct.  

Really?  Name a few f2p that aren't pay to win.  I cant really think of any right now.

buying a game...any game...is pay to win. people need to let the whol P2W meme die. Most people are not NEARLY that competitive to give a shit either way

So when you buy metal gear v, Witcher 3, or any other game right now.  That is considered pay to win?  You see how silly your statement was just now?

yes of course

because the arguments of pay to win eventually get that stupid anyway so I thought I would just bring it down to the level its going to go anyway 

No for some reason you are confusing pay to play and buy to play with pay to win.  Its completely different concepts.

SEANMCAD said:

laserit said:

When I lose to someone in a game....

I want to be *Out-Played* not *Out-Payed*

If the difference between winning and losing is how much money you spent. It's not a game, it's a milking machine. 

frankly? why is prooving your gaming computer skills really that important in the first place I will never understand

Its the same as proving who can hit a little round ball better then other people.  Or who can run faster, catch better, hit harder.  Its competetion and though it might not be your cup of tea it is important to some people more then others.

filmoret

Eadan1 said:

kjempff said:

Uhm whales and "remoras" are symbiotic, one cannot exist without the other and are the result of the other. Therefore it makes no sense to say one is better than the other.
All you can really say is, those who make monetization systems, decides whether whales and "remoras" exist in their game.

You are right, they can't exist without the other. But whales and even some remoras aren't aware of this fact, and think whales provide for both of them which causes devs to treat free players like shit.

lol you people make me laugh.  You realize its symbolism to prove a point and you can't take everything from that symbolism to further prove the point especially when its invalid.  Whales don't need Remora's at all.

jesteralways

SEANMCAD said:

jesteralways said:

Robokapp said:

It is my duty as an anti-F2P player to expose weaknesses that will eventually crumble this cancerous industry trend.

No dude, you know what will happen? There will be outrageous $$ value mandatory monthly sub along with pay2win cash shop in AAA mmorpg soon enough and it will become so normal that players in game will insult each other for not having limited edition costume that was found in gambling box on cash shop. And if someone is just wearing in game armor without cash shop costume, they will become the target of insult and harassment, players who would not have cash shop armor would be bottom feeder and would constantly be harassed for leeching off of the whales. And no one will give 2 tin shit.

I find it extreemly hard to believe that people give 2 shits if people wear or dont wear cash shop armour. i dont know because I dont talk to gamers in game but I still find it hard to believe

It is hard to believe but that is what will most definitely happen.

Tasslehoff35 said:

jesteralways said:

Robokapp said:

It is my duty as an anti-F2P player to expose weaknesses that will eventually crumble this cancerous industry trend.

No dude, you know what will happen? There will be outrageous $$ value mandatory monthly sub along with pay2win cash shop in AAA mmorpg soon enough and it will become so normal that players in game will insult each other for not having limited edition costume that was found in gambling box on cash shop. And if someone is just wearing in game armor without cash shop costume, they will become the target of insult and harassment, players who would not have cash shop armor would be bottom feeder and would constantly be harassed for leeching off of the whales. And no one will give 2 tin shit.

Haha you can't be serious.  The only ones who give a damn what outfit or pet you have are the freeloaders.  They are the ones who harass people who spend money on a hobby they enjoy who try to make them feel guilty because they have extra money to put towards their hobby.  

Again this p2w that is so widely used on this site is nothing more then a fairy tale made up by the freeloades.  Most of the western mmos have nothing in their cash shops that give players an advantage over the others...again unless you think riding around on different mount or being able to do a different emote is an advantage...

It is now but the shift is happening, we can ignore it because it is totally stupid but soon enough that kind of behavior will be normal. And best part will be that everyone will participate in that kind of behavior and no one will give a crap.
And if you think the term pay2win is fairy tale, then you need a reality check or perhaps a brain check. Western games do have pay2win items in their cash shop, you are just ignoring them as "fairy tale".

jesteralways

SEANMCAD said:

laserit said:

When I lose to someone in a game....

I want to be *Out-Played* not *Out-Payed*

If the difference between winning and losing is how much money you spent. It's not a game, it's a milking machine. 

frankly? why is prooving your gaming computer skills really that important in the first place I will never understand

You are ignoring the point here pretty nicely but i will spell it out for you : 2 people are competing, one person wins with bigger wallet, not with skill, it is no longer a competition, it is nonsense. Whether it is a game or not is irrelevant.
And if you are trying to argue that your mathematical skill or maybe your million $ job is more important to talk about in a gaming site : dude in the end we become fucking corpse, eaten by fucking rot worms, what will your million $ or mathematical skill do for you when your a corpse? Get off your high horse.

gearchin13

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

holdenhamlet said:

Nasa said:

holdenhamlet said:

1. The only reason f2p works is because of whales.  Not many people like the f2p model.
2. People that don't spend any money don't influence anything.
   

1. Source?. Players vote with their wallet and time. If the game and model is bad they don't play. I think f2p has a big part of League of Legends success.
2. Ever heard of players as content?. Other players keep the guilds and game active.

So why do you think whales are badmouthed?

Very few mmorpgs have advantages in their shops.  Most are cosmetic or decorations for the player housing. 

I can't believe you just said that.  Very few mmorpg's don't have advantages.  For every mmorpg you find that doesn't have pay to win cash shop I can show you 2 that do.  Noone cares about whales in GW2 or Eve because it doesn't really impact other players.  But in Archeage or Shaiya then you are gonna either fork over a few thousand or die repeatedly.

Please very few mmorpgs have advantages unless you are playing a Korean or Asian mmo.  But since this site is mainly western players my comment was directed at western mmos so I am still 100% correct.  

Really?  Name a few f2p that aren't pay to win.  I cant really think of any right now.

i can name a few, Marvel heroes, League of legends,TF2, SMITE,Path of exile, Orcs must die: unchained,Dungeon defenders 2,Paladins,Paragon(when it releases), Dota2, there are good F2p games out there,where you don't have to spend a dime to be "competitive".

Kyleran

gearchin13 said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

holdenhamlet said:

Nasa said:

holdenhamlet said:

1. The only reason f2p works is because of whales.  Not many people like the f2p model.
2. People that don't spend any money don't influence anything.
   

1. Source?. Players vote with their wallet and time. If the game and model is bad they don't play. I think f2p has a big part of League of Legends success.
2. Ever heard of players as content?. Other players keep the guilds and game active.

So why do you think whales are badmouthed?

Very few mmorpgs have advantages in their shops.  Most are cosmetic or decorations for the player housing. 

I can't believe you just said that.  Very few mmorpg's don't have advantages.  For every mmorpg you find that doesn't have pay to win cash shop I can show you 2 that do.  Noone cares about whales in GW2 or Eve because it doesn't really impact other players.  But in Archeage or Shaiya then you are gonna either fork over a few thousand or die repeatedly.

Please very few mmorpgs have advantages unless you are playing a Korean or Asian mmo.  But since this site is mainly western players my comment was directed at western mmos so I am still 100% correct.  

Really?  Name a few f2p that aren't pay to win.  I cant really think of any right now.

i can name a few, Marvel heroes, League of legends,TF2, SMITE,Path of exile, Orcs must die: unchained,Dungeon defenders 2,Paladins,Paragon(when it releases), Dota2, there are good F2p games out there,where you don't have to spend a dime to be "competitive".

Er, those aren't MMORPGs, there is a difference though oft forgotten these days.

gearchin13

Kyleran said:

gearchin13 said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

filmoret said:

Tasslehoff35 said:

holdenhamlet said:

Nasa said:

holdenhamlet said:

1. The only reason f2p works is because of whales.  Not many people like the f2p model.
2. People that don't spend any money don't influence anything.
   

1. Source?. Players vote with their wallet and time. If the game and model is bad they don't play. I think f2p has a big part of League of Legends success.
2. Ever heard of players as content?. Other players keep the guilds and game active.

So why do you think whales are badmouthed?

Very few mmorpgs have advantages in their shops.  Most are cosmetic or decorations for the player housing. 

I can't believe you just said that.  Very few mmorpg's don't have advantages.  For every mmorpg you find that doesn't have pay to win cash shop I can show you 2 that do.  Noone cares about whales in GW2 or Eve because it doesn't really impact other players.  But in Archeage or Shaiya then you are gonna either fork over a few thousand or die repeatedly.

Please very few mmorpgs have advantages unless you are playing a Korean or Asian mmo.  But since this site is mainly western players my comment was directed at western mmos so I am still 100% correct.  

Really?  Name a few f2p that aren't pay to win.  I cant really think of any right now.

i can name a few, Marvel heroes, League of legends,TF2, SMITE,Path of exile, Orcs must die: unchained,Dungeon defenders 2,Paladins,Paragon(when it releases), Dota2, there are good F2p games out there,where you don't have to spend a dime to be "competitive".

Er, those aren't MMORPGs, there is a difference though oft forgotten these days.

even if they arent MMOrpgs, the spectrum of F2p includes those games and not just MMOs.  i was naming F2ps, it isn't the only genre that has F2p games.