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Nearly twenty years later, there is still no game like it...

2

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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,048
    Over 20 years later, there's still no game like UO. And pre-trammel, that's not a bad thing. It means game developers have learned from past mistakes.
    Are you basing that on grief play alone?
    What about the rest of the game?
    The rest of the game was just as good if not better after the addition of Trammel.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • donjndonjn Member UncommonPosts: 816
    Ashen Empires is as close as you can get to Ultima Online. In fact, it does many things better.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,871
    UO is still the best Virtual World available offering the player the most in-depth immersive experience with  the most activities for players To flesh out a living world full of danger and oppurtunity ... imo
  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,408
    We are now the old guys sitting on the porch lecturing the young' uns.  They dont want to play what we like. Bang your head against the wall or move on.  
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,062
    Over 20 years later, there's still no game like UO. And pre-trammel, that's not a bad thing. It means game developers have learned from past mistakes.
    I don't think the word mistake means what you think it means.
  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,612
    I was a Dread Lord Master Chef would make trays of deadly poison chocolate chip cookies and scatter them around for the unsuspecting noobs. One nibble and I would come out of hiding and take all their stuff.
    MrMelGibson
  • wifeaggro28wifeaggro28 Member UncommonPosts: 9
    Over 20 years later, there's still no game like UO.
    MO
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    We should be on 3Rd or 4th generation of the sandbox branch.
    Because themeparks have evolved so much as the more popular?
    They are still at second generation...
  • FakitFakit Member UncommonPosts: 2
    @Archlyte
    jajajaj
  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,186
    Over 20 years later, there's still no game like UO. And pre-trammel, that's not a bad thing. It means game developers have learned from past mistakes.
    I would really like to see a 3D UO someday. Runescape seems to come the closest. Tried returning to UO and that game is really showing its age. Add to that the really sparse population, it was just really lacking.

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    edited October 2016
    I think that the unfortunate reality is that people don't want to be challenged in the way that UO/SWG challenged players. The depth of systems and features is now considered "wasting" time while in development. If a game isn't understood and 100% predictable within a few hours of play then it's rejected and twitter begins its analysis. 

    Te bugs and bad design elements were certainly ther in those old games, but they were like early airplanes where the games now are more like fake exotic cars. They are designed to look like Ferraris but in reality they have a small 3 cylinder diesel (for simplicity) and take you no where near a different experience. 
    Hawkaya399
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member EpicPosts: 1,851
    I too miss Neverwinter Nights on AOL. It would've been 26 years old next year.


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    LynxJSA said:
    I would really like to see a 3D UO someday. Runescape seems to come the closest. Tried returning to UO and that game is really showing its age. Add to that the really sparse population, it was just really lacking.

    To be fair is Shards online 3D, made by Garriot and seems pretty close to UO even if it still is in alpha state. The idea that you can create your own shard with the customized server settings your prefer and even custom content (Garriot said you even can make your own mechanics) is very good.

    I think you should have look on it , it might be what you and OP is looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So2pu_c80eo
  • EmeraqEmeraq Member UncommonPosts: 968
    Loke666 said:
    LynxJSA said:
    I would really like to see a 3D UO someday. Runescape seems to come the closest. Tried returning to UO and that game is really showing its age. Add to that the really sparse population, it was just really lacking.

    To be fair is Shards online 3D, made by Garriot and seems pretty close to UO even if it still is in alpha state. The idea that you can create your own shard with the customized server settings your prefer and even custom content (Garriot said you even can make your own mechanics) is very good.

    I think you should have look on it , it might be what you and OP is looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So2pu_c80eo
    Shards is made by Garriot?  I thought Shroud of the Avatar was his and Shards is Citadel right?
  • LimitationsLimitations Member UncommonPosts: 85
    Shards is made by Citadel, you are correct Eme

    Who said this won't be perfect after all we know what is right
    And the sounds of bodies clashing is enough to make them cry.
    You know this cannot be perfect even when it is feeling right.
    And the sound of bodies crashing echo through the night.

  • Rodney2016Rodney2016 Member CommonPosts: 2
     :) 
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Emeraq said:
    Loke666 said:
    To be fair is Shards online 3D, made by Garriot and seems pretty close to UO even if it still is in alpha state. The idea that you can create your own shard with the customized server settings your prefer and even custom content (Garriot said you even can make your own mechanics) is very good.

    I think you should have look on it , it might be what you and OP is looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So2pu_c80eo
    Shards is made by Garriot?  I thought Shroud of the Avatar was his and Shards is Citadel right?
    Ok, Im stupid and mixing up things (I blame that I have the flu). But Citadel do have Draconi who worked on the UO team ... Sorry.
  • WernerRealmWernerRealm Member CommonPosts: 7
    edited May 2018
    Neverwinter 
    Post edited by WernerRealm on
  • xidbmixidbmi Member CommonPosts: 7
    edited August 2018
    In FFXI you get a mog house, open world with roaming notorious monsters, guilds, traditional EQ style camps and you need a group to do alot of stuff (pservers anyway). Also player run economy and mostly all equipment, food, weapons, etc are made by players and traded or put on auction house. 
    Join us on Lastbossxi for focus on group play and community: https://discord.gg/ec6d8Br
  • OldSchoolGamerOldSchoolGamer Member UncommonPosts: 226
    While the answer is most likely Ultima Online, I actually preferred both Shadowbane and SWG to UO.  Unfortunately, you said 20 years and both my choices are at the 15 year mark.
  • WarWitchWarWitch Member UncommonPosts: 263
    I and my wife mis SWG so much, We had 13 accounts and told sorrowoney they were screwing it up, we even did a patition over 100k players.
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,255
    You misunderstood what I was saying :)
    SWG is basically post-Trammel UO in space (before they ruined it with NG).

    Most devs learned 20 years ago that a gankfest doesn't work as a MMORPG. UO before trammel was a recipe of a major failure to happen soon. Some devs sadly try to repeat that failure, but most understood that it just does not work.
    Pre-Trammel Ultima Online was a failure. EA was really close to shutting it down because over 70% of new players were being driven away.

    Trammel is what saved Ultima Online from an untimely death.



    This post(its a couple posts down) from Gordon "Tyrant" Walton should be required reading.
    Jean-Luc_PicardLokero
  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 603
    SWG was good fun, I loved the city building, the crafting, the entertainer buffs etc. Many things about it were terrible though. I stopped playing it when WoW came out. WoW felt very shallow in comparison but at least it was polished.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,871
    And yet the most active UO servers , right now carry pre -Trammel rule sets , servers packed to the gills with players ... 24/7................. go figure
    Gdemami
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,048
    Xiaoki said:
    You misunderstood what I was saying :)
    SWG is basically post-Trammel UO in space (before they ruined it with NG).

    Most devs learned 20 years ago that a gankfest doesn't work as a MMORPG. UO before trammel was a recipe of a major failure to happen soon. Some devs sadly try to repeat that failure, but most understood that it just does not work.
    Pre-Trammel Ultima Online was a failure. EA was really close to shutting it down because over 70% of new players were being driven away.

    Trammel is what saved Ultima Online from an untimely death.



    This post(its a couple posts down) from Gordon "Tyrant" Walton should be required reading.
    Quoting it here for easy reading:

    Tyrant

    • Executive Producer

    Yes, I'm the person who is responsible for bringing you Trammel and the dilution the original UO.

     

    And I regret some (but not all) of the outcome.  My charter as the VP of Online at Origin Systems (and Executive Producer of UO), was to grow the game.  The unforgiving play environment that made UO so intense was clearly driving away between 70+% of all the new players that tried the game within 60 days.  The changes we came up with to address this problem were a compromise, mostly driven by fiscal, technological and time reasons.

     

    The good:  After the change which broke the game space into PvP and PvE worlds, the player base and income nearly doubled (we went from 125k to 245k subs).  So from a fiscal responsibility standpoint it was a totally winning move.

     

    The bad:  Without the "sheep to shear" the hard core PvP'ers were disenfranchised.  They didn't like preying on each other (hard targets versus soft targets), and they became a smaller minority in the overall game.  The real bad though was that the intensity and "realness" of the game for all players was diminished.  This was the major unintended consequence.

     

    Part of the context during that time was that UO2 was under development, and the plan that was being pushed on us was to shut down UO when UO2 launched (even though it was a completely different game).  In fact, my second week at Origin I was asked for a shutdown plan for the game.  (My answer:  if you are serious I'm quitting today, because some of the players are going to kill (IRL) the people responsible for such a decision.  They really didn't understand the emotional attachment UO players had for the game).  This continued to be something talked about though continuously, but less after we grew the game.  Remember that EA at that time was a packaged game company and they culturally only understood launching new products, not running live ones.  Our Live team needed to keep UO vibrant and growing to offset those forces, so we were continuously scrambling for how to do that.  I'm proud that UO survives to this day based partially on the momentum the team (and our loyal customers) created.

     

    I also learned from my UO experience that it's really hard to change a brand.  Inherent in the UO brand was the fact it was a gritty, hard core world of danger.  We were not successful in bringing back the (literally)100's of thousands of players who had quit due to the unbridled PvP in the world (~5% of former customers came back to try the new UO, but very few of them stayed).  We discovered that people didn't just quit UO, they divorced it in a very emotional way.  But we did keep more of the new players that came in by a large margin, significantly more than than the PvP players we lost.

     

    If I had the chance to do it again, (and we had different fiscal and time constraints), we would have done something more like keeping the current current worlds with the original ruleset (like we later did with the Seige Perilous shard, which was too late in my view), and make new shards with a more PvE ruleset.

     

    One of the benefits of experience is the mistakes you've made along the way, and the pattern matching to avoid old mistakes.  Of course this means that you get to make new and even more spectacular (but different) mistakes in the present!  

     

    I hope this gives you more insight into what happened the UO that you (and I) loved.

     

     

    P.S. Please do remain skeptical, we don't expect anything on faith, but wait until we unveil our entire vision before passing final judgement!



    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

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