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Why is SWG allowed to operate?

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  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    I was looking around for my install CDs but I can't seem to find them.  They are likely to be in my storage room I call the black hole of junk.  Is there any way they provide to get the installer?
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

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  • KilrainKilrain Member RarePosts: 1,185
    edited June 2016
    World of Warcraft is still online and playable. Star Wars Galaxies is not.

    That is the reason.
    Post edited by Kilrain on
  • SyanisSyanis Member UncommonPosts: 140
    Cleffy said:
    Technically its legal. If you bought a multiplayer game and the company that holds its rights no longer offers service for that game, you are legally allowed to use an emulator or the server engine to play it on a local network.

    This would be correct and a court ruling on it as such would be devastating for many of these big companies who want to push players onto their next thing. If you bought a product you agree in the purchase to its terms as does the company to its service. When the service is no longer offered the terms are voided and your left with ownership of the product you bought w/o terms other than basic copyright terms. You can use that product yourself still through an emulator and others can do the same thing even together. As long as your not charging for the service or offering pirated copies of the game to play its legal. It becomes a mixed quasi legal thing if your asking for donations for maintaining a server but keep it not being a *fee* or even charging for access to the server that runs the emulator but as added protection the server should have other things available beyond the game that are legit as to void the argument the server is the game argument on profiting from someone else's work.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,956
    I'm surprised because lucas arts was quick to shut down a cool star wars mod for Quake a VERY long time ago.
  • Xeno.phonXeno.phon Member UncommonPosts: 350
    Its pretty much a way for them to gauge demand. Once enough people play the emulators they will close them down with legal force and then release a remake or new version themselves.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    laserit said:
    Loke666 said:
    I don't think they bother because it doesn't actually loose them much money. A few thousand players do hardly steal many players from TOR. Some of them probabaly play TOR anyways and most wouldn't even if their SWG server shut down.

    They could put their legal deparetment on it but it would probably cost them more money, and they might upset some fans who might buy EA games in the future.

    I assume they have larger problems with Star wars copyright to bother with.

    If 100K players suddenly started to play things would be different but now they have little to gain.
    Does that make it ok?

    Couldn't it set a precedent if the copyright holder chooses to do nothing? 
    Possibly but even large corps need to choose their battles. In this case feigning knowledge probably saves them money and they can always "discover" the copyright issue at a later time if it actually starts to matter some way or another.

    At the moment they would have to use manpower and risking upsetting their fans for no actual economical loss and that just isn't worth the trouble.

    I think Disney are more annoyed on other offenders like Pirate bay at the moment. If they can't close that one down, how are you expecting them to kill of small pirate servers anyways? 
  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    Loke666 said:
    laserit said:
    Loke666 said:
    I don't think they bother because it doesn't actually loose them much money. A few thousand players do hardly steal many players from TOR. Some of them probabaly play TOR anyways and most wouldn't even if their SWG server shut down.

    They could put their legal deparetment on it but it would probably cost them more money, and they might upset some fans who might buy EA games in the future.

    I assume they have larger problems with Star wars copyright to bother with.

    If 100K players suddenly started to play things would be different but now they have little to gain.
    Does that make it ok?

    Couldn't it set a precedent if the copyright holder chooses to do nothing? 
    Possibly but even large corps need to choose their battles. In this case feigning knowledge probably saves them money and they can always "discover" the copyright issue at a later time if it actually starts to matter some way or another.

    At the moment they would have to use manpower and risking upsetting their fans for no actual economical loss and that just isn't worth the trouble.

    I think Disney are more annoyed on other offenders like Pirate bay at the moment. If they can't close that one down, how are you expecting them to kill of small pirate servers anyways? 
    They have such a huge fan base it's hard to be strict. Better to be nice an lenient, and turn the other cheek sometimes.
     
  • KoboliKoboli Member UncommonPosts: 210
    laserit said:
    Cleffy said:
    Technically its legal. If you bought a multiplayer game and the company that holds its rights no longer offers service for that game, you are legally allowed to use an emulator or the server engine to play it on a local network.
    Technically?

    Screw the game, you are violating someone's copyright of a legally owned IP. The Star Wars IP


    And who is going to stop them? You? It would take, literally, an act of God to bring internet piracy to its knees. Throwing a tantrum about someone "stealing" from a defunct game is hardly going to end the reign of... terror? No! SWASHBUCKLING.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    laserit said:
    Cleffy said:
    Technically its legal. If you bought a multiplayer game and the company that holds its rights no longer offers service for that game, you are legally allowed to use an emulator or the server engine to play it on a local network.
    Technically?

    Screw the game, you are violating someone's copyright of a legally owned IP. The Star Wars IP


    And who is going to stop them? You? It would take, literally, an act of God to bring internet piracy to its knees. Throwing a tantrum about someone "stealing" from a defunct game is hardly going to end the reign of... terror? No! SWASHBUCKLING.
    Throwing a tantrum lol

    What I am doing is throwing a topic and and argument up for debate. I'm actually very pleased and enlightened by many of the intelligent responses to the topic.

    cheers 

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227



    And who is going to stop them? You? 

    That would be the Disney legal team.... A bunch of soulless vampires who would gladly go after a 8 year olds birthday cards if they felt it infringed on their IP. 

    It also has nothing to do with the game it self... But the imagery and sound... Art assets and well.. names of characters.  The story... and so on and so forth. 

    Copyright does not care about if the game is dead or alive since the IP it self is very much alive. 


    But as others have pointed out... It is not big enough of a problem and well... more of a EA thing to get pissy about as they own the game license right now. 

    This have been a good conversation

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,272
    laserit said:
    Cleffy said:
    Technically its legal. If you bought a multiplayer game and the company that holds its rights no longer offers service for that game, you are legally allowed to use an emulator or the server engine to play it on a local network.
    Technically?

    Screw the game, you are violating someone's copyright of a legally owned IP. The Star Wars IP


    Actually I think this is true. Though there might be other particulars such as how many people have access to it, but I can't remember. I came across this when looking into the legality of emulators.


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  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    Sovrath said:
    laserit said:
    Cleffy said:
    Technically its legal. If you bought a multiplayer game and the company that holds its rights no longer offers service for that game, you are legally allowed to use an emulator or the server engine to play it on a local network.
    Technically?

    Screw the game, you are violating someone's copyright of a legally owned IP. The Star Wars IP


    Actually I think this is true. Though there might be other particulars such as how many people have access to it, but I can't remember. I came across this when looking into the legality of emulators.



    The only legality to emulators I have found so far is in Fed 9th of 2015 it was legal to create one for a dead game for research purposes.  Still looking for actual law in the US.
  • herculeshercules Member UncommonPosts: 4,924
    soe (daybreak) certainly do not care as it the licence was taken off them
    lucasarts is now disney who have bigger fish to fry then few k at best playing this game who are not intrested in swtor anyhow and it helps keep them in the star wars spirit .so not hurting them and might indirectly beenfit them
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    edited July 2016
    What i really find funny and depressing is how people keep supporting DIsney and/or DBG by purchasing a literally dead/obsolete game just to play it on a pirate server. Thats why companies love to abuse anti consumer practices, because they know people will still give them money anyway. If they want my money they better open the official servers. Not that i want to play an outdated game, but its better than throwing money to the wind.




  • herculeshercules Member UncommonPosts: 4,924
    What i really find funny and depressing is how people keep supporting DIsney and/or DBG by purchasing a literally dead/obsolete game just to play it on a pirate server. Thats why companies love to abuse anti consumer practices, because they know people will still give them money anyway. If they want my money they better open the official servers. Not that i want to play an outdated game, but its better than throwing money to the wind.
    if you got the disc from offical server then you do not need to buy or pay anything
    i played a while few years ago on SWGemu and paid nothing
  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    You people that keep claiming the main SWGEMU is illegal, really need to look up the "fan art exception" to US copyright law. It explains the conditions under which an IP may be used legally when not done by the original owner. There are several conditions that ALL must be met.

    Also, look up the "fair use doctrine" for IP, it explains that a person that legally purchased a copy (physical at least) of a copyrighted work, may use that work for non commercial purposes, even without the permission of the original IP owner and potentially even in ways not supported or approved. (That is why players of the EMU MUST have a physical copy of SWG.)


    It is only because both sets of conditions are met, that people can use both the old SWG discs, and the people running the EMU project could re-create the server code to allow the game to function.


    P.S: As to the NGE servers, there have been allegations they are using leaked or stolen source code, so that would obviously be not legal.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,477
    edited July 2016
    Burntvet said:
    You people that keep claiming the main SWGEMU is illegal, really need to look up the "fan art exception" to US copyright law. It explains the conditions under which an IP may be used legally when not done by the original owner. There are several conditions that ALL must be met.

    Also, look up the "fair use doctrine" for IP, it explains that a person that legally purchased a copy (physical at least) of a copyrighted work, may use that work for non commercial purposes, even without the permission of the original IP owner and potentially even in ways not supported or approved. (That is why players of the EMU MUST have a physical copy of SWG.)


    It is only because both sets of conditions are met, that people can use both the old SWG discs, and the people running the EMU project could re-create the server code to allow the game to function.


    P.S: As to the NGE servers, there have been allegations they are using leaked or stolen source code, so that would obviously be not legal.
    Hmm most don't have physical copies, just photo shopped images of disc with their "hands" in the pic.

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  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Asm0deus said:
    Burntvet said:
    You people that keep claiming the main SWGEMU is illegal, really need to look up the "fan art exception" to US copyright law. It explains the conditions under which an IP may be used legally when not done by the original owner. There are several conditions that ALL must be met.

    Also, look up the "fair use doctrine" for IP, it explains that a person that legally purchased a copy (physical at least) of a copyrighted work, may use that work for non commercial purposes, even without the permission of the original IP owner and potentially even in ways not supported or approved. (That is why players of the EMU MUST have a physical copy of SWG.)


    It is only because both sets of conditions are met, that people can use both the old SWG discs, and the people running the EMU project could re-create the server code to allow the game to function.


    P.S: As to the NGE servers, there have been allegations they are using leaked or stolen source code, so that would obviously be not legal.
    Hmm most don't have physical copies, just photo shopped images of disc with their "hands" in the pic.
    That would be up to the IP holder objecting to prove. And good luck proving that.

    As it is, the presumption is having a copy is enough.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Asm0deus said:
    Hmm most don't have physical copies, just photo shopped images of disc with their "hands" in the pic.
    Honestly I have something even better, my original key... I have the disks but they're in horrible shape at this point. 

    laserit said:


    What I am doing is throwing a topic and and argument up for debate. I'm actually very pleased and enlightened by many of the intelligent responses to the topic.

    cheers 
    This is largely up to the Ip holder, and whether they seek to shutdown fan made projects using that IP. Which with L.A. They've always (seemingly) shown themselves to be in support of fan made films and the like. It doesn't seem as though that has changed under the Disney move.

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  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Distopia said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Hmm most don't have physical copies, just photo shopped images of disc with their "hands" in the pic.
    Honestly I have something even better, my original key... I have the disks but they're in horrible shape at this point. 

    laserit said:


    What I am doing is throwing a topic and and argument up for debate. I'm actually very pleased and enlightened by many of the intelligent responses to the topic.

    cheers 
    This is largely up to the Ip holder, and whether they seek to shutdown fan made projects using that IP. Which with L.A. They've always (seemingly) shown themselves to be in support of fan made films and the like. It doesn't seem as though that has changed under the Disney move.

    I have looked around and haven't been able to find my originals for swg.  I found a ton of ancient video games in the process though.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    SWGEMU is based on the Star Wars universe which is copyrighted.  Without permission to use it from disney it's illegal.  Just like that WoW vanilla private server, once it became popular they shut it down.  If SWGEMU becomes a big thing and money becomes involved they will shut them down.  

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  • RaxeonRaxeon Member UncommonPosts: 2,288
    SWGEMU is based on the Star Wars universe which is copyrighted.  Without permission to use it from disney it's illegal.  Just like that WoW vanilla private server, once it became popular they shut it down.  If SWGEMU becomes a big thing and money becomes involved they will shut them down.  
    SWGEMU is based on the Star Wars universe which is copyrighted.  Without permission to use it from disney it's illegal.  Just like that WoW vanilla private server, once it became popular they shut it down.  If SWGEMU becomes a big thing and money becomes involved they will shut them down.  
    they wont
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,571
    It's the same situation for the E&B emu. A game that's been closed down for a long time but has been recoded from the ground up at the server end. I've been trying to find some old posts about this where it was suggested that after a certain amount time has passed from the game's closure it enters the public domain.

    I'm no lawyer so I have no idea if that argument holds water but it was an interesting point.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    I'm surprised because lucas arts was quick to shut down a cool star wars mod for Quake a VERY long time ago.
    The people who made the mod for Quake - we can assume - will not have applied to LucasArts for IP use. They would have to have argued "fan use" etc.

    In the case of SWG people bought (non-exclusive, single copy etc.) use from LucasArts through SoE.

    So basically unpaid IP use vs. purchased IP use.


  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited July 2016
    Raxeon said:
    SWGEMU is based on the Star Wars universe which is copyrighted.  Without permission to use it from disney it's illegal.  Just like that WoW vanilla private server, once it became popular they shut it down.  If SWGEMU becomes a big thing and money becomes involved they will shut them down.  

    they wont
    Indeed. They might win and have to restart the game!

    The SWGEMU is not based on the SW anything. It is code - we assume independently developed - whose only function is to allow people who legitimately bought the game to use their product. The operators are complicit in allowing people who - it could be argued were robbed by LucasArts through SoE - of continuing to use their legally purchased products. 

    Nor were the WoW emulator(s) based on WoW anything - just like the SWGEMU; just code. The operators were complicit in allowing people to play "WoW" in "breach of their IP usage agreement" i.e. not using Blizzard servers etc. They would  be guilty of aiding and abetting an IP breach so they shut down.

    Key difference - as mentioned by many. Official SWG servers shut. WoW servers open. So not "just like the WoW servers" at all.


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