so is this a tab target game, or another one of these action combat MMOs?

MMOExposed

so is this a tab target game, or another one of these action combat MMOs?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Duyo

it is action combat, not tab target

H0urg1ass

I think action combat, however, needs to be broken down into a couple of categories.

There's the absurd flippity hoppity dash somersault backlflip while throwing a sword in a circle that comes back to your hand action combat.  BDO and Archeage fall into this category.

Then there's the "wherever you point your weapon or spell is what you hit" kind of action combat without all the ridiculous whiz bang pow stuff imported from the JRPG genre.  Darkfall, Age of Conan and TESO fall into this category.

I'm pretty sure that CoE is more the second variety than the first, but I could be wrong.

MMOExposed

H0urg1ass said:

I think action combat, however, needs to be broken down into a couple of categories.

There's the absurd flippity hoppity dash somersault backlflip while throwing a sword in a circle that comes back to your hand action combat.  BDO and Archeage fall into this category.

Then there's the "wherever you point your weapon or spell is what you hit" kind of action combat without all the ridiculous whiz bang pow stuff imported from the JRPG genre.  Darkfall, Age of Conan and TESO fall into this category.

I'm pretty sure that CoE is more the second variety than the first, but I could be wrong.

I call the first "Animation Locks"

Aragon100

blueturtle13 said:

It is action-combat, not auto-attack. Auto-attacking doesn't require player skill and breaks our third design principle. See Game Guide - Introduction. Specifically: "The era of auto-attacking is over. If your character effectively swings a sword, it's because you chose the precise moment for them to do so. If your character cuts a Master Emerald, worthy of sitting on the crown of the King, it's because your own nimble fingers made it happen."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/General-Discussion/50-Is-combat-tabtarget

These CoE developers are wrong. I am surpriced they don't seem to have experience of Renaissance UO.

UO Renaissance was tab targeting and so far there haven't been another MMO that demanded as much player skills. Becoming a really good mage or hybrid dexer took almost a year, some never learned no matter how much they practiced. The needed timing of spells was in milliseconds and the team fights demanded way more player skills then any aim based MMO. Seeing the battle field top-down made players aware of what all 15 players on screen were doing and they had to act on all eventual variables to either defend and heal or go for the attack and dump. Just the healing took loads of practice to do right, the timing had to be so exact to heal through 3 explosion/ e-bolts.

So claiming games like Darkfall took more player skills is just inexperience speaking. Aim don't by default make a game more player skill demanding.

UO magic system was also the by far most fun ever created. No aim based MMO have ever come close to how far you could develop your skills as you could in Renaissance UO.

GrumpyHobbit

Aragon100 said:

blueturtle13 said:

It is action-combat, not auto-attack. Auto-attacking doesn't require player skill and breaks our third design principle. See Game Guide - Introduction. Specifically: "The era of auto-attacking is over. If your character effectively swings a sword, it's because you chose the precise moment for them to do so. If your character cuts a Master Emerald, worthy of sitting on the crown of the King, it's because your own nimble fingers made it happen."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/General-Discussion/50-Is-combat-tabtarget

These CoE developers are wrong. I am surpriced they don't seem to have experience of Renaissance UO.

UO Renaissance was tab targeting and so far there haven't been another MMO that demanded as much player skills. Becoming a really good mage or hybrid dexer took almost a year, some never learned no matter how much they practiced. The needed timing of spells was in milliseconds and the team fights demanded way more player skills then any aim based MMO. Seeing the battle field top-down made players aware of what all 15 players on screen were doing and they had to act on all eventual variables to either defend and heal or go for the attack and dump. Just the healing took loads of practice to do right, the timing had to be so exact to heal through 3 explosion/ e-bolts.

So claiming games like Darkfall took more player skills is just inexperience speaking. Aim don't by default make a game more player skill demanding.

UO magic system was also the by far most fun ever created. No aim based MMO have ever come close to how far you could develop your skills as you could in Renaissance UO.

As a suggestion, why not play UOR and stop wasting your time here as you have obviously found the best game evah!

Sorry, but the developers are not 'wrong', you just disagree with them.

Me, I am in the camp of M&B is the best combat I have ever experienced in a swords and sorcery type game and anything that closely resembles that type of combat, for me, will be fun to play. COE seems to be aiming for that type of combat so I am happy it is not tab target.

Aragon100

GrumpyHobbit said:

Aragon100 said:

blueturtle13 said:

It is action-combat, not auto-attack. Auto-attacking doesn't require player skill and breaks our third design principle. See Game Guide - Introduction. Specifically: "The era of auto-attacking is over. If your character effectively swings a sword, it's because you chose the precise moment for them to do so. If your character cuts a Master Emerald, worthy of sitting on the crown of the King, it's because your own nimble fingers made it happen."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/General-Discussion/50-Is-combat-tabtarget

These CoE developers are wrong. I am surpriced they don't seem to have experience of Renaissance UO.

UO Renaissance was tab targeting and so far there haven't been another MMO that demanded as much player skills. Becoming a really good mage or hybrid dexer took almost a year, some never learned no matter how much they practiced. The needed timing of spells was in milliseconds and the team fights demanded way more player skills then any aim based MMO. Seeing the battle field top-down made players aware of what all 15 players on screen were doing and they had to act on all eventual variables to either defend and heal or go for the attack and dump. Just the healing took loads of practice to do right, the timing had to be so exact to heal through 3 explosion/ e-bolts.

So claiming games like Darkfall took more player skills is just inexperience speaking. Aim don't by default make a game more player skill demanding.

UO magic system was also the by far most fun ever created. No aim based MMO have ever come close to how far you could develop your skills as you could in Renaissance UO.

As a suggestion, why not play UOR and stop wasting your time here as you have obviously found the best game evah!

Sorry, but the developers are not 'wrong', you just disagree with them.

Me, I am in the camp of M&B is the best combat I have ever experienced in a swords and sorcery type game and anything that closely resembles that type of combat, for me, will be fun to play. COE seems to be aiming for that type of combat so I am happy it is not tab target.

It is not a waste of time to educate clueless, inexperienced people. And yes they are wrong and their statement that tab targeting is easy mode PvP were laughable at best.

Claiming as CoE developers do that there is no player skills in tab targetting is clueless and tell me a lot about these developers inexperience of gaming. It is an insult to the best MMO combat system ever created.

Must say i am very surpriced they didn't seem to know anything about the player skill needed to perform well in UO:R PvP. 

Duyo

Aragon100 said:

GrumpyHobbit said:

Aragon100 said:

blueturtle13 said:

It is action-combat, not auto-attack. Auto-attacking doesn't require player skill and breaks our third design principle. See Game Guide - Introduction. Specifically: "The era of auto-attacking is over. If your character effectively swings a sword, it's because you chose the precise moment for them to do so. If your character cuts a Master Emerald, worthy of sitting on the crown of the King, it's because your own nimble fingers made it happen."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/General-Discussion/50-Is-combat-tabtarget

These CoE developers are wrong. I am surpriced they don't seem to have experience of Renaissance UO.

UO Renaissance was tab targeting and so far there haven't been another MMO that demanded as much player skills. Becoming a really good mage or hybrid dexer took almost a year, some never learned no matter how much they practiced. The needed timing of spells was in milliseconds and the team fights demanded way more player skills then any aim based MMO. Seeing the battle field top-down made players aware of what all 15 players on screen were doing and they had to act on all eventual variables to either defend and heal or go for the attack and dump. Just the healing took loads of practice to do right, the timing had to be so exact to heal through 3 explosion/ e-bolts.

So claiming games like Darkfall took more player skills is just inexperience speaking. Aim don't by default make a game more player skill demanding.

UO magic system was also the by far most fun ever created. No aim based MMO have ever come close to how far you could develop your skills as you could in Renaissance UO.

As a suggestion, why not play UOR and stop wasting your time here as you have obviously found the best game evah!

Sorry, but the developers are not 'wrong', you just disagree with them.

Me, I am in the camp of M&B is the best combat I have ever experienced in a swords and sorcery type game and anything that closely resembles that type of combat, for me, will be fun to play. COE seems to be aiming for that type of combat so I am happy it is not tab target.

It is not a waste of time to educate clueless, inexperienced people. And yes they are wrong and their statement that tab targeting is easy mode PvP were laughable at best.

Claiming as CoE developers do that there is no player skills in tab targetting is clueless and tell me a lot about these developers inexperience of gaming. It is an insult to the best MMO combat system ever created.

Must say i am very surpriced they didn't seem to know anything about the player skill needed to perform well in UO:R PvP. 

ok so like 1000 tab target games were created and ....1 is better than the action combat in things like M&B or tes series. so maybe you game does require a lot of player skill, but 99%+ of the time action combat requires more skill than tab target combat. saying otherwise would show inexperience
I personally am a fan of turn based strategy like ogre wars, but theres no denying that in a mmo setting action combat almost always has more player skill than tab target. and theyre not trying to promote your game, they want to promote their game of course. so let them

GrumpyHobbit

Aragon100 said:

It is not a waste of time to educate clueless, inexperienced people. And yes they are wrong and their statement that tab targeting is easy mode PvP were laughable at best.

Claiming as CoE developers do that there is no player skills in tab targetting is clueless and tell me a lot about these developers inexperience of gaming. It is an insult to the best MMO combat system ever created.

Must say i am very surpriced they didn't seem to know anything about the player skill needed to perform well in UO:R PvP. 

First, thanks for the insults, both of them. 

Second, they are not wrong, they have a different OPINION than you. 

But seeing as the discussion is about tab targeting or player aiming...yes they can very well state that, in terms of targeting, tab targeting takes no skill (the game does it for you) but player aiming does take skill.

You are trying to include other elements of gameplay that are not what the thread is about and trying to equate the skill required for other aspects of combat with the mechanic of using tab-targetting or player aiming.

 

fs23otm

Action Combat has it's place... but it is silly to think it requires "more skill" then tab target. 

The both require a certain set of skills to achieve optimal performance.... 

Just like the difference between FPS and RTS games... different skill sets involved... one does not require more then the other 

Darkcrystal

Aragon100 said:

GrumpyHobbit said:

Aragon100 said:

blueturtle13 said:

It is action-combat, not auto-attack. Auto-attacking doesn't require player skill and breaks our third design principle. See Game Guide - Introduction. Specifically: "The era of auto-attacking is over. If your character effectively swings a sword, it's because you chose the precise moment for them to do so. If your character cuts a Master Emerald, worthy of sitting on the crown of the King, it's because your own nimble fingers made it happen."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/General-Discussion/50-Is-combat-tabtarget

These CoE developers are wrong. I am surpriced they don't seem to have experience of Renaissance UO.

UO Renaissance was tab targeting and so far there haven't been another MMO that demanded as much player skills. Becoming a really good mage or hybrid dexer took almost a year, some never learned no matter how much they practiced. The needed timing of spells was in milliseconds and the team fights demanded way more player skills then any aim based MMO. Seeing the battle field top-down made players aware of what all 15 players on screen were doing and they had to act on all eventual variables to either defend and heal or go for the attack and dump. Just the healing took loads of practice to do right, the timing had to be so exact to heal through 3 explosion/ e-bolts.

So claiming games like Darkfall took more player skills is just inexperience speaking. Aim don't by default make a game more player skill demanding.

UO magic system was also the by far most fun ever created. No aim based MMO have ever come close to how far you could develop your skills as you could in Renaissance UO.

As a suggestion, why not play UOR and stop wasting your time here as you have obviously found the best game evah!

Sorry, but the developers are not 'wrong', you just disagree with them.

Me, I am in the camp of M&B is the best combat I have ever experienced in a swords and sorcery type game and anything that closely resembles that type of combat, for me, will be fun to play. COE seems to be aiming for that type of combat so I am happy it is not tab target.

It is not a waste of time to educate clueless, inexperienced people. And yes they are wrong and their statement that tab targeting is easy mode PvP were laughable at best.

Claiming as CoE developers do that there is no player skills in tab targetting is clueless and tell me a lot about these developers inexperience of gaming. It is an insult to the best MMO combat system ever created.

Must say i am very surpriced they didn't seem to know anything about the player skill needed to perform well in UO:R PvP. 

Lol coming from someone who has never  ever made a game....  I have, and sir , again like others have said, stop saying they are inexperienced   Tab target games are a joke to make a  beginner programmer can make them, they are used because of latency issues for some with games like DarkFall, or Asheron Call, one of the best MMORPG's ever made...    Tab target does not take skill, when your spamming buttons...  and have a class like games like WOW, where no matter what class you play and how good you are...Gear matters more.... Than Skill, level matters more than skill...I would love for someone to kill a level 100 as a level 20 in WOW......  Asheron Call 1 players can be level 50, and beat level 150..... because of skill....

I could go on and on for days with this since I have designed games for over  decade and not as a hobby...So again like others have said you disagree with them and that is ok.... But to sit there and think, you know better than the developers, and know how the mechanics work .... I will be waiting for your next game to be made...


Now games like Elder Scrolls online went with Soft Lock, which is  almost like Tab Target , but with a bit of aiming....  So you still need to aim, a bit, so that is the better way for MMORPG's because of latency issues.. So then you have the best of both worlds....But Tab target it self, is out dated combat from the 90's....

I prefer aim base, like DarkFall, or Asheron Call, but again, to many people have bad connections and can effect the out come, so Soft Lock is one of the better ways to go, since you have best of both worlds....This is only for MMORPG's....    

marganculos

"tab target combat" ... let this piece of history die, please... thanks

Darkcrystal

fs23otm said:

Action Combat has it's place... but it is silly to think it requires "more skill" then tab target. 

The both require a certain set of skills to achieve optimal performance.... 

Just like the difference between FPS and RTS games... different skill sets involved... one does not require more then the other 

Yes and no, performance yes, I will  agree with this to a point, I have a mom that games and she can't not play aim based games since she can't well aim..... Because her skill is not up to par...  She loves tab target because the game will aim for her.... But to sit there and say tab target takes more skill or as much is total non sense..... Read my post above about the levels of different games and gear....Tab target games gear matters more and so does Level.....  Aim based games do not need that to matter even when some  have levels... So I agree and disagree with your post...

Kyleran

marganculos said:

"tab target combat" ... let this piece of history die, please... thanks

Pretty sure CU will be tab target, so not dead yet, thankfully.

LacedOpium

Posters in this thread seem to be confusing "skill" with "strategy."  Although the two can certainly overlap that gray area, action combat tends to be more skill based, whereas tab targeting is predominantly strategy oriented.

Aragon100

Duyo said:

Aragon100 said:

GrumpyHobbit said:

Aragon100 said:

blueturtle13 said:

It is action-combat, not auto-attack. Auto-attacking doesn't require player skill and breaks our third design principle. See Game Guide - Introduction. Specifically: "The era of auto-attacking is over. If your character effectively swings a sword, it's because you chose the precise moment for them to do so. If your character cuts a Master Emerald, worthy of sitting on the crown of the King, it's because your own nimble fingers made it happen."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/General-Discussion/50-Is-combat-tabtarget

These CoE developers are wrong. I am surpriced they don't seem to have experience of Renaissance UO.

UO Renaissance was tab targeting and so far there haven't been another MMO that demanded as much player skills. Becoming a really good mage or hybrid dexer took almost a year, some never learned no matter how much they practiced. The needed timing of spells was in milliseconds and the team fights demanded way more player skills then any aim based MMO. Seeing the battle field top-down made players aware of what all 15 players on screen were doing and they had to act on all eventual variables to either defend and heal or go for the attack and dump. Just the healing took loads of practice to do right, the timing had to be so exact to heal through 3 explosion/ e-bolts.

So claiming games like Darkfall took more player skills is just inexperience speaking. Aim don't by default make a game more player skill demanding.

UO magic system was also the by far most fun ever created. No aim based MMO have ever come close to how far you could develop your skills as you could in Renaissance UO.

As a suggestion, why not play UOR and stop wasting your time here as you have obviously found the best game evah!

Sorry, but the developers are not 'wrong', you just disagree with them.

Me, I am in the camp of M&B is the best combat I have ever experienced in a swords and sorcery type game and anything that closely resembles that type of combat, for me, will be fun to play. COE seems to be aiming for that type of combat so I am happy it is not tab target.

It is not a waste of time to educate clueless, inexperienced people. And yes they are wrong and their statement that tab targeting is easy mode PvP were laughable at best.

Claiming as CoE developers do that there is no player skills in tab targetting is clueless and tell me a lot about these developers inexperience of gaming. It is an insult to the best MMO combat system ever created.

Must say i am very surpriced they didn't seem to know anything about the player skill needed to perform well in UO:R PvP. 

ok so like 1000 tab target games were created and ....1 is better than the action combat in things like M&B or tes series. so maybe you game does require a lot of player skill, but 99%+ of the time action combat requires more skill than tab target combat. saying otherwise would show inexperience
I personally am a fan of turn based strategy like ogre wars, but theres no denying that in a mmo setting action combat almost always has more player skill than tab target. and theyre not trying to promote your game, they want to promote their game of course. so let them

My point was that old UO took more player skills then any aim MMO.

Sure many tab target games is easy mode PvP but UO:R was an example of the opposite so aim isn't by default the more player skill demanding.

UO:R is a good example of how wrong these developers statement was.

Scorchien

blueturtle13 said:

Not tab target from what I have read.

Caspian (Soulbound Studios)

Influence: 0

Posts: 663

+2 #3 9 months ago

I hope this game is action combat, im not a fan of auto-attack and such. @lenkek (10:44 AM - Fri Jul 31 2015) It is action-combat, not auto-attack. Auto-attacking doesn't require player skill and breaks our third design principle. See Game Guide - Introduction. Specifically: "The era of auto-attacking is over. If your character effectively swings a sword, it's because you chose the precise moment for them to do so. If your character cuts a Master Emerald, worthy of sitting on the crown of the King, it's because your own nimble fingers made it happen."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/General-Discussion/50-Is-combat-tabtarget

Meanwhile more MMORPg players are using Tab Target than Action .. Its not even close ... Action combat is the minority by a large margin ............... Devfail.. the era of auto attack is over lmfao .. aint that rich

Aragon100

GrumpyHobbit said:

Aragon100 said:

It is not a waste of time to educate clueless, inexperienced people. And yes they are wrong and their statement that tab targeting is easy mode PvP were laughable at best.

Claiming as CoE developers do that there is no player skills in tab targetting is clueless and tell me a lot about these developers inexperience of gaming. It is an insult to the best MMO combat system ever created.

Must say i am very surpriced they didn't seem to know anything about the player skill needed to perform well in UO:R PvP. 

First, thanks for the insults, both of them. 

Second, they are not wrong, they have a different OPINION than you. 

But seeing as the discussion is about tab targeting or player aiming...yes they can very well state that, in terms of targeting, tab targeting takes no skill (the game does it for you) but player aiming does take skill.

You are trying to include other elements of gameplay that are not what the thread is about and trying to equate the skill required for other aspects of combat with the mechanic of using tab-targetting or player aiming.

 

As you know i answered these developers statement that tab targeting don't take player skills, which was a statement that was plain wrong and show me how unexperienced they are.

Tab targeting and the up-down view also made the team fights a lot more player skill demanding then any first person MMO aim game that is a joke when it comes to team fighting, usually is nothing but a never ending chaos where the zergs numbers make the difference, very little player skills needed.

Only time i ever felt that skills made a difference in those kind of games was in Darkfall when my alliance killed a +70 alliance with our 50 guys and we didnt loose 1 guy in that skirmish. Usually it is very unskilled though.

Aragon100

fs23otm said:

Action Combat has it's place... but it is silly to think it requires "more skill" then tab target. 

The both require a certain set of skills to achieve optimal performance.... 

Just like the difference between FPS and RTS games... different skill sets involved... one does not require more then the other 

Agree, but thing with UO:R was that it was more action based then any aim MMO i played and it took a lot more player skills to perform well.

Aragon100

Darkcrystal said:

Aragon100 said:

GrumpyHobbit said:

Aragon100 said:

blueturtle13 said:

It is action-combat, not auto-attack. Auto-attacking doesn't require player skill and breaks our third design principle. See Game Guide - Introduction. Specifically: "The era of auto-attacking is over. If your character effectively swings a sword, it's because you chose the precise moment for them to do so. If your character cuts a Master Emerald, worthy of sitting on the crown of the King, it's because your own nimble fingers made it happen."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/General-Discussion/50-Is-combat-tabtarget

These CoE developers are wrong. I am surpriced they don't seem to have experience of Renaissance UO.

UO Renaissance was tab targeting and so far there haven't been another MMO that demanded as much player skills. Becoming a really good mage or hybrid dexer took almost a year, some never learned no matter how much they practiced. The needed timing of spells was in milliseconds and the team fights demanded way more player skills then any aim based MMO. Seeing the battle field top-down made players aware of what all 15 players on screen were doing and they had to act on all eventual variables to either defend and heal or go for the attack and dump. Just the healing took loads of practice to do right, the timing had to be so exact to heal through 3 explosion/ e-bolts.

So claiming games like Darkfall took more player skills is just inexperience speaking. Aim don't by default make a game more player skill demanding.

UO magic system was also the by far most fun ever created. No aim based MMO have ever come close to how far you could develop your skills as you could in Renaissance UO.

As a suggestion, why not play UOR and stop wasting your time here as you have obviously found the best game evah!

Sorry, but the developers are not 'wrong', you just disagree with them.

Me, I am in the camp of M&B is the best combat I have ever experienced in a swords and sorcery type game and anything that closely resembles that type of combat, for me, will be fun to play. COE seems to be aiming for that type of combat so I am happy it is not tab target.

It is not a waste of time to educate clueless, inexperienced people. And yes they are wrong and their statement that tab targeting is easy mode PvP were laughable at best.

Claiming as CoE developers do that there is no player skills in tab targetting is clueless and tell me a lot about these developers inexperience of gaming. It is an insult to the best MMO combat system ever created.

Must say i am very surpriced they didn't seem to know anything about the player skill needed to perform well in UO:R PvP. 

Lol coming from someone who has never  ever made a game....  I have, and sir , again like others have said, stop saying they are inexperienced   Tab target games are a joke to make a  beginner programmer can make them, they are used because of latency issues for some with games like DarkFall, or Asheron Call, one of the best MMORPG's ever made...    Tab target does not take skill, when your spamming buttons...  and have a class like games like WOW, where no matter what class you play and how good you are...Gear matters more.... Than Skill, level matters more than skill...I would love for someone to kill a level 100 as a level 20 in WOW......  Asheron Call 1 players can be level 50, and beat level 150..... because of skill....

I could go on and on for days with this since I have designed games for over  decade and not as a hobby...So again like others have said you disagree with them and that is ok.... But to sit there and think, you know better than the developers, and know how the mechanics work .... I will be waiting for your next game to be made...


Now games like Elder Scrolls online went with Soft Lock, which is  almost like Tab Target , but with a bit of aiming....  So you still need to aim, a bit, so that is the better way for MMORPG's because of latency issues.. So then you have the best of both worlds....But Tab target it self, is out dated combat from the 90's....

I prefer aim base, like DarkFall, or Asheron Call, but again, to many people have bad connections and can effect the out come, so Soft Lock is one of the better ways to go, since you have best of both worlds....This is only for MMORPG's....    

You never played UO:R so why do you make it sound like you have any experience in UO:R tab targetting? LOL

Why i know you have no clue is that you thought that UO:R tab targeting was spamming buttons which was a certain death if you did.

Talking to players that is so unaware of what you're talking about make no sense really so i leave it at that.

I was in the guild on Darkfall EU that made the first tier 4 city so i know Darkfall in and out and i can compare it with UO:R and Darkfall PvP was easy mode PvP compared to UO:R, easy mode.

Aragon100

marganculos said:

"tab target combat" ... let this piece of history die, please... thanks

Another one that never played the best MMO PvP game ever, UO:R.

Inexperienced forum warriors is in my eyes very pathetic.

Aragon100

LacedOpium said:

Posters in this thread seem to be confusing "skill" with "strategy."  Although the two can certainly overlap that gray area, action combat tends to be more skill based, whereas tab targeting is predominantly strategy oriented.

UO:R took both skills and strategy. Reading your opponent/ opponents was essential to success.

Very little strategy in teamfights in aim based MMO games that use a first hand view, very little.

GrumpyHobbit

Aragon100 said:

Duyo said:

Aragon100 said:

GrumpyHobbit said:

Aragon100 said:

blueturtle13 said:

It is action-combat, not auto-attack. Auto-attacking doesn't require player skill and breaks our third design principle. See Game Guide - Introduction. Specifically: "The era of auto-attacking is over. If your character effectively swings a sword, it's because you chose the precise moment for them to do so. If your character cuts a Master Emerald, worthy of sitting on the crown of the King, it's because your own nimble fingers made it happen."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/General-Discussion/50-Is-combat-tabtarget

These CoE developers are wrong. I am surpriced they don't seem to have experience of Renaissance UO.

UO Renaissance was tab targeting and so far there haven't been another MMO that demanded as much player skills. Becoming a really good mage or hybrid dexer took almost a year, some never learned no matter how much they practiced. The needed timing of spells was in milliseconds and the team fights demanded way more player skills then any aim based MMO. Seeing the battle field top-down made players aware of what all 15 players on screen were doing and they had to act on all eventual variables to either defend and heal or go for the attack and dump. Just the healing took loads of practice to do right, the timing had to be so exact to heal through 3 explosion/ e-bolts.

So claiming games like Darkfall took more player skills is just inexperience speaking. Aim don't by default make a game more player skill demanding.

UO magic system was also the by far most fun ever created. No aim based MMO have ever come close to how far you could develop your skills as you could in Renaissance UO.

As a suggestion, why not play UOR and stop wasting your time here as you have obviously found the best game evah!

Sorry, but the developers are not 'wrong', you just disagree with them.

Me, I am in the camp of M&B is the best combat I have ever experienced in a swords and sorcery type game and anything that closely resembles that type of combat, for me, will be fun to play. COE seems to be aiming for that type of combat so I am happy it is not tab target.

It is not a waste of time to educate clueless, inexperienced people. And yes they are wrong and their statement that tab targeting is easy mode PvP were laughable at best.

Claiming as CoE developers do that there is no player skills in tab targetting is clueless and tell me a lot about these developers inexperience of gaming. It is an insult to the best MMO combat system ever created.

Must say i am very surpriced they didn't seem to know anything about the player skill needed to perform well in UO:R PvP. 

ok so like 1000 tab target games were created and ....1 is better than the action combat in things like M&B or tes series. so maybe you game does require a lot of player skill, but 99%+ of the time action combat requires more skill than tab target combat. saying otherwise would show inexperience
I personally am a fan of turn based strategy like ogre wars, but theres no denying that in a mmo setting action combat almost always has more player skill than tab target. and theyre not trying to promote your game, they want to promote their game of course. so let them

My point was that old UO took more player skills then any aim MMO. IN MY OPINION

Sure many tab target games is easy mode PvP but UO:R was an example of the opposite so aim isn't by default the more player skill demanding. IN MY OPINION

UO:R is a good example of how wrong these developers statement was.  IN MY OPINION

Opinion isn't fact. Especially when you are confusing the skill of aiming with the skill of using abilities once a target has been acquired. 

Does it take more skill to tab target then it does to manually aim? I think you would be hard pressed to argue that it does if purely talking what it takes to acquire a target. Why?

One is an automatic, system handled process and the other is a player driven system that rewards player skill. One requires the pressing of a single button to acquire the target, the other requires the combination of mouse movement and timing. 

If you want to talk about the complexities of combat AFTER the targeting mechanic you might have a point but seeing as we are not talking about anything other then targeting it just seems you are constantly missing the point of the discussion.

To give you an analogy, does it take more driving skill to drive a a car with automatic gears or manual? An automatic car is tab targeting, manual is player aiming.

Distopia

Aragon100 said:

Another one that never played the best MMO PvP game ever, UO:R.

Inexperienced forum warriors is in my eyes very pathetic.

Now you're just getting petty.. So please educate rather than ridicule... explain yourself and what you mean, don't just beat your chest. I'd say SWG's pre-cu combat system required both strategy and skill as well (skill with using the system).. Yet it wasn't exactly reliant on player reflexes as much as knowledge of the system.. Two different things..

Aragon100

GrumpyHobbit said:

Aragon100 said:

Duyo said:

Aragon100 said:

GrumpyHobbit said:

Aragon100 said:

blueturtle13 said:

It is action-combat, not auto-attack. Auto-attacking doesn't require player skill and breaks our third design principle. See Game Guide - Introduction. Specifically: "The era of auto-attacking is over. If your character effectively swings a sword, it's because you chose the precise moment for them to do so. If your character cuts a Master Emerald, worthy of sitting on the crown of the King, it's because your own nimble fingers made it happen."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/General-Discussion/50-Is-combat-tabtarget

These CoE developers are wrong. I am surpriced they don't seem to have experience of Renaissance UO.

UO Renaissance was tab targeting and so far there haven't been another MMO that demanded as much player skills. Becoming a really good mage or hybrid dexer took almost a year, some never learned no matter how much they practiced. The needed timing of spells was in milliseconds and the team fights demanded way more player skills then any aim based MMO. Seeing the battle field top-down made players aware of what all 15 players on screen were doing and they had to act on all eventual variables to either defend and heal or go for the attack and dump. Just the healing took loads of practice to do right, the timing had to be so exact to heal through 3 explosion/ e-bolts.

So claiming games like Darkfall took more player skills is just inexperience speaking. Aim don't by default make a game more player skill demanding.

UO magic system was also the by far most fun ever created. No aim based MMO have ever come close to how far you could develop your skills as you could in Renaissance UO.

As a suggestion, why not play UOR and stop wasting your time here as you have obviously found the best game evah!

Sorry, but the developers are not 'wrong', you just disagree with them.

Me, I am in the camp of M&B is the best combat I have ever experienced in a swords and sorcery type game and anything that closely resembles that type of combat, for me, will be fun to play. COE seems to be aiming for that type of combat so I am happy it is not tab target.

It is not a waste of time to educate clueless, inexperienced people. And yes they are wrong and their statement that tab targeting is easy mode PvP were laughable at best.

Claiming as CoE developers do that there is no player skills in tab targetting is clueless and tell me a lot about these developers inexperience of gaming. It is an insult to the best MMO combat system ever created.

Must say i am very surpriced they didn't seem to know anything about the player skill needed to perform well in UO:R PvP. 

ok so like 1000 tab target games were created and ....1 is better than the action combat in things like M&B or tes series. so maybe you game does require a lot of player skill, but 99%+ of the time action combat requires more skill than tab target combat. saying otherwise would show inexperience
I personally am a fan of turn based strategy like ogre wars, but theres no denying that in a mmo setting action combat almost always has more player skill than tab target. and theyre not trying to promote your game, they want to promote their game of course. so let them

My point was that old UO took more player skills then any aim MMO. IN MY OPINION

Sure many tab target games is easy mode PvP but UO:R was an example of the opposite so aim isn't by default the more player skill demanding. IN MY OPINION

UO:R is a good example of how wrong these developers statement was.  IN MY OPINION

Opinion isn't fact. Especially when you are confusing the skill of aiming with the skill of using abilities once a target has been acquired. 

Does it take more skill to tab target then it does to manually aim? I think you would be hard pressed to argue that it does if purely talking what it takes to acquire a target. Why?

One is an automatic, system handled process and the other is a player driven system that rewards player skill. One requires the pressing of a single button to acquire the target, the other requires the combination of mouse movement and timing. 

If you want to talk about the complexities of combat AFTER the targeting mechanic you might have a point but seeing as we are not talking about anything other then targeting it just seems you are constantly missing the point of the discussion.

To give you an analogy, does it take more driving skill to drive a a car with automatic gears or manual? An automatic car is tab targeting, manual is player aiming.

Why don't you make it easier for you since you have no clue of what UO:R PvP demanded of it's players. Since you have no clue why do you claim that tab targeting by default is the less player skill demanding?

UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is, it was skillful cause you needed superior timing of spells and strategy and it was a real time action based PvP and doing a single thing wrong during a 15 minute combat session could be the reason why my team lost.

I suggest you learn more about games like UO:R before you continue this discussion.

I played UO, Darkfall, Mortal Online and loads of other MMO PvP games with different PvPÅ settings and the by far hardest one to master was UO:R. Darkfall was a walk in the park compared.