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Nostalrius Servers Issued Court Order to Close Shop

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  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    danwest58 said:


    Problem is Blizzard is just stupid because they are run by people who think more accessibility equals more subscribers which equals more money.  
    Eh... 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SteelhelmSteelhelm Member UncommonPosts: 332
    The employees at Blizzard are not fans of their own game?
    Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Talonsin said:
    I dont understand why game companies do not offer this as an alternative...  I'm with Blizzard taking action against people who try and profit from their IP's but I would think they would see the opportunity here.
    Because players like when it's free but don't want to pay for it. Both the EQ and EQ2 time locked servers have been less than successful in the long run.

    The company has to split resources and it divides the community and their many requests. So, in general, it's not worth the time, money, and potential damage it can do to the game and community.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Varking said:
    I dunno guys... maybe Blizzard plans on adding time locked vanilla style servers so this is the start? None of us know what is going on behind the scenes.
    I don't see blizzard purposely splitting up their subscriber base like that. The people who want to play current WoW will lose ALOT of people to play with, the bitching and unsubs will commence with a fury. Every time locked server would have a small community who would probably start bitching for "improvements" to fit their rose colored vision of their favorite xpac.
    Not sure about that. EQ2 does just fine doing it. In fact I had guildies come back to play EQ2 just because of the TLE
    Sorry Blue, I have to disagree with you this time. I see it just like Shivinski paints it. On EQ they've been a very mild success. For EQ2 they've nearly been a failure.
    • They've closed down one of the two EQ2 servers.
    • The TLE community is constantly asks for special features, updates, and exceptions.
    • They have to split their resources between TLE and Live. They're managing two different xpac updates now. They have two different balance sets to maintain and two different bug chains.
    • This has split the community not only in resource requests, but as a whole. The TLE community on the forums constantly makes comments about how shit the Live game is while still requesting features like Chrono Mage, Channeler, Beast Master, and holiday events that aren't part of the current expansion. It's understandable that players posture for their favorite, but I think it illustrates how it has created another rift in the community.
    I don't think DBG really thought this through all the way, or if they did they ignored the problems for the short term revenue gains they made. Based on the server status indicator that pve TLE server has gone from constantly full to usually medium or medium low. It sometimes hits medium high, but it seems like a good chunk of players have either gone back to live or just stopped playing period.

    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • yaminsuxyaminsux Member UncommonPosts: 973
    Vanilla version, best version.
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242
    I see, as expected - trolls are happily crawling all over the place =)
     W...aaagh?
  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,858
    edited April 2016
    danwest58 said:
    This is IP theft but there is a good amount of players that want to play in the Vanilla WOW TBC WOW time period.  If Blizzard did offer these servers to me I would come back even if the Subscription was $20 to $30 a month.  Even if it is 1% to 10% of their population that end up coming back I bet you that Blizzard will make a good money stream off these classic servers.  

    The problem is Blizzard is loosen so much money because no one except a group of people who do not like MMOS want to play WOW right now. I want an MMO that pushes me to group and makes Dungeons an affair where I need to schedule it with friends OR socially interact with people.  Cross Realm Automated group files killed social interaction and allowed a lot of garbage into MMOs.  The GO GO GO GO ME ME ME bunch love it while hurting large amounts of players.  Just look at how many players quit WOW.

    Problem is Blizzard is just stupid because they are run by people who think more accessibility equals more subscribers which equals more money.  Yet they have that now and are loosen money.   
    I mostly agree with your first paragraph...but possibly less than $10 a month. 
    If Blizzard truly wants to kill off Private Servers they should offer 1.12.1, 2.4.3, 3.3.5 and possibly further. Past WOTLK I just wouldn't pay anything.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,200
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    SBFord said:
    Herase said:
    Why? People do realize this was a voluntary project right and no profits were being made of this?

    Even so, are we honestly going to say blizz, a multi million dollar company was upset over a tiny private server?

    Someone said would I care if I was blizz? Fuck no, why would I? The only time It would cross my mind is if I knew I was doing a utter shit job and someone was doing it better than me.

    When people cheer and jump up an down to these kinds of things when it has no effect on them what so ever, it tends to be out of fear or desperation.

    So I feel there is a lot more to this than meets the eye imho

    It is both a legal issue and a matter of principle. These administrators neither own the intellectual property rights to World of Warcraft nor did they expend the effort to create the game, both of which require copious amounts of money to do and something Blizzard did. Legally, they have every right to shut down that server and any other for what amounts to theft.

    Put another way: Let's say you wrote a best-selling novel that made millions and then made revisions that some people did not like. If those upset people took your book, a thing created with your blood, sweat and tears, and made copies to sell to all other disaffected people, would you not be upset? I would. My creation, my right to sell and profit from it.

    While these folks may not "profit" from their activities, I'll bet there's a prominent "donate" button to keep the servers running. While not profit in their pockets, it amounts to the same thing since without the donations, they could not keep things going.

    Lastly, the "offer" to give server information to "anyone who wants to make their own private server speaks to their high and mighty ideals, doesn't it?
    Let's say you invested millions or billions inventing a medical device that improves the quality of millions of lives. Or a popular consumer product that makes your life easier and more enjoyable. Products you actually have to purchase raw materials for and manufacture, where you have to risk money to produce them period. 

    In the U.S. you would have 20 years of protection before others can knock off your product.  Your intellectual property has an expiry date.

    Why should the games industry be treated differently? Why is their intellectual property protected perpetually?

    Your Government is being strongly lobbied to change the laws concerning pharmaceutical patents. The pharmaceutical companies want their intellectual property to be protected perpetually just like the games industry. Their arguments sound just as legitimate as yours.

    It would be a sad sad day for the every day working stiff, if that ever comes to pass.      
    The idea they can take your exact product they cannot.  They would have to take the time to actually MAKE the product not just take the other companies product and slap their label on it.  In this case they are not even changing the label.  Your example is wrong stop using it.
    Oh Really?

    So I can manufacture a boardgame called Monopoly and sell it can I?

    that is where your stupid patent thing comes in.  Monopoly, Blizzards code, the medical equipment they have copyrights to the actual product.  You can make a game based on the idea of Monopoly, Wow used Game Workshop's ideas, and you could make a medical equipment based off the idea....but 20 year thing is not right.  Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.  No one can take your product and just distribute it as their own under the law.
    Sorry your wrong.

    You can't copyright an invention and an invention is an intellectual property just like a game or a book.

    Anyone can knock off my invention after my patent has expired. You just can't use my name or Trademarks. Just like after a pharmaceutical patent expires, a generic knockoff will be able to enter the market and again names and Trademarks will apply other than that it can be a complete copy.

    I am also wrong on in that a copyright is not perpetual. It is in effect for the author's life plus 50-100 years. Copyrights legislation is also under review as we speak, mainly due to software and electronic media

    Things start getting blurry. Software products don't necessarily equate to requiring artistic protections. A copy of SolidWorks or Simply Accounting is closer to a tool or a widget than a "Lord of the Rings"

    I am also debating the industries as a whole and not Blizzard in particular. Characters, Stories etc. etc. absolutely merit artistic protections. 

    Coke is an invention that is copyrighted..the chemical makeup of cokes chemicals is patented...the chemicals in certain percentages in a coke can is protected from people just taking that coke can and repackaging it.  Same as is the code in Blizzard's games.  The actual game is copyrighted or if you think I am wrong go and start a server.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,200
    Distopia said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    SBFord said:
    Herase said:
    Why? People do realize this was a voluntary project right and no profits were being made of this?

    Even so, are we honestly going to say blizz, a multi million dollar company was upset over a tiny private server?

    Someone said would I care if I was blizz? Fuck no, why would I? The only time It would cross my mind is if I knew I was doing a utter shit job and someone was doing it better than me.

    When people cheer and jump up an down to these kinds of things when it has no effect on them what so ever, it tends to be out of fear or desperation.

    So I feel there is a lot more to this than meets the eye imho

    It is both a legal issue and a matter of principle. These administrators neither own the intellectual property rights to World of Warcraft nor did they expend the effort to create the game, both of which require copious amounts of money to do and something Blizzard did. Legally, they have every right to shut down that server and any other for what amounts to theft.

    Put another way: Let's say you wrote a best-selling novel that made millions and then made revisions that some people did not like. If those upset people took your book, a thing created with your blood, sweat and tears, and made copies to sell to all other disaffected people, would you not be upset? I would. My creation, my right to sell and profit from it.

    While these folks may not "profit" from their activities, I'll bet there's a prominent "donate" button to keep the servers running. While not profit in their pockets, it amounts to the same thing since without the donations, they could not keep things going.

    Lastly, the "offer" to give server information to "anyone who wants to make their own private server speaks to their high and mighty ideals, doesn't it?
    Let's say you invested millions or billions inventing a medical device that improves the quality of millions of lives. Or a popular consumer product that makes your life easier and more enjoyable. Products you actually have to purchase raw materials for and manufacture, where you have to risk money to produce them period. 

    In the U.S. you would have 20 years of protection before others can knock off your product.  Your intellectual property has an expiry date.

    Why should the games industry be treated differently? Why is their intellectual property protected perpetually?

    Your Government is being strongly lobbied to change the laws concerning pharmaceutical patents. The pharmaceutical companies want their intellectual property to be protected perpetually just like the games industry. Their arguments sound just as legitimate as yours.

    It would be a sad sad day for the every day working stiff, if that ever comes to pass.      
    The idea they can take your exact product they cannot.  They would have to take the time to actually MAKE the product not just take the other companies product and slap their label on it.  In this case they are not even changing the label.  Your example is wrong stop using it.
    Oh Really?

    So I can manufacture a boardgame called Monopoly and sell it can I?
    I think it's safe to say Monopoly has a monopoly on the game Monopoly :).

    Nope The Landlords Game
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,200
    danwest58 said:
    This is IP theft but there is a good amount of players that want to play in the Vanilla WOW TBC WOW time period.  If Blizzard did offer these servers to me I would come back even if the Subscription was $20 to $30 a month.  Even if it is 1% to 10% of their population that end up coming back I bet you that Blizzard will make a good money stream off these classic servers.  

    The problem is Blizzard is loosen so much money because no one except a group of people who do not like MMOS want to play WOW right now. I want an MMO that pushes me to group and makes Dungeons an affair where I need to schedule it with friends OR socially interact with people.  Cross Realm Automated group files killed social interaction and allowed a lot of garbage into MMOs.  The GO GO GO GO ME ME ME bunch love it while hurting large amounts of players.  Just look at how many players quit WOW.

    Problem is Blizzard is just stupid because they are run by people who think more accessibility equals more subscribers which equals more money.  Yet they have that now and are loosen money.   

    how exactly are they losing money?
  • winghaven1winghaven1 Member RarePosts: 713
    Horusra said:
    danwest58 said:
    This is IP theft but there is a good amount of players that want to play in the Vanilla WOW TBC WOW time period.  If Blizzard did offer these servers to me I would come back even if the Subscription was $20 to $30 a month.  Even if it is 1% to 10% of their population that end up coming back I bet you that Blizzard will make a good money stream off these classic servers.  

    The problem is Blizzard is loosen so much money because no one except a group of people who do not like MMOS want to play WOW right now. I want an MMO that pushes me to group and makes Dungeons an affair where I need to schedule it with friends OR socially interact with people.  Cross Realm Automated group files killed social interaction and allowed a lot of garbage into MMOs.  The GO GO GO GO ME ME ME bunch love it while hurting large amounts of players.  Just look at how many players quit WOW.

    Problem is Blizzard is just stupid because they are run by people who think more accessibility equals more subscribers which equals more money.  Yet they have that now and are loosen money.   

    how exactly are they losing money?

    They're losing possible subscribers (people like him who would subscribe if vanilla servers were available) therefore it is easily theorized they're losing possible income by not offering said services.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,273
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    SBFord said:
    Herase said:
    Why? People do realize this was a voluntary project right and no profits were being made of this?

    Even so, are we honestly going to say blizz, a multi million dollar company was upset over a tiny private server?

    Someone said would I care if I was blizz? Fuck no, why would I? The only time It would cross my mind is if I knew I was doing a utter shit job and someone was doing it better than me.

    When people cheer and jump up an down to these kinds of things when it has no effect on them what so ever, it tends to be out of fear or desperation.

    So I feel there is a lot more to this than meets the eye imho

    It is both a legal issue and a matter of principle. These administrators neither own the intellectual property rights to World of Warcraft nor did they expend the effort to create the game, both of which require copious amounts of money to do and something Blizzard did. Legally, they have every right to shut down that server and any other for what amounts to theft.

    Put another way: Let's say you wrote a best-selling novel that made millions and then made revisions that some people did not like. If those upset people took your book, a thing created with your blood, sweat and tears, and made copies to sell to all other disaffected people, would you not be upset? I would. My creation, my right to sell and profit from it.

    While these folks may not "profit" from their activities, I'll bet there's a prominent "donate" button to keep the servers running. While not profit in their pockets, it amounts to the same thing since without the donations, they could not keep things going.

    Lastly, the "offer" to give server information to "anyone who wants to make their own private server speaks to their high and mighty ideals, doesn't it?
    Let's say you invested millions or billions inventing a medical device that improves the quality of millions of lives. Or a popular consumer product that makes your life easier and more enjoyable. Products you actually have to purchase raw materials for and manufacture, where you have to risk money to produce them period. 

    In the U.S. you would have 20 years of protection before others can knock off your product.  Your intellectual property has an expiry date.

    Why should the games industry be treated differently? Why is their intellectual property protected perpetually?

    Your Government is being strongly lobbied to change the laws concerning pharmaceutical patents. The pharmaceutical companies want their intellectual property to be protected perpetually just like the games industry. Their arguments sound just as legitimate as yours.

    It would be a sad sad day for the every day working stiff, if that ever comes to pass.      
    The idea they can take your exact product they cannot.  They would have to take the time to actually MAKE the product not just take the other companies product and slap their label on it.  In this case they are not even changing the label.  Your example is wrong stop using it.
    Oh Really?

    So I can manufacture a boardgame called Monopoly and sell it can I?

    that is where your stupid patent thing comes in.  Monopoly, Blizzards code, the medical equipment they have copyrights to the actual product.  You can make a game based on the idea of Monopoly, Wow used Game Workshop's ideas, and you could make a medical equipment based off the idea....but 20 year thing is not right.  Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.  No one can take your product and just distribute it as their own under the law.
    Sorry your wrong.

    You can't copyright an invention and an invention is an intellectual property just like a game or a book.

    Anyone can knock off my invention after my patent has expired. You just can't use my name or Trademarks. Just like after a pharmaceutical patent expires, a generic knockoff will be able to enter the market and again names and Trademarks will apply other than that it can be a complete copy.

    I am also wrong on in that a copyright is not perpetual. It is in effect for the author's life plus 50-100 years. Copyrights legislation is also under review as we speak, mainly due to software and electronic media

    Things start getting blurry. Software products don't necessarily equate to requiring artistic protections. A copy of SolidWorks or Simply Accounting is closer to a tool or a widget than a "Lord of the Rings"

    I am also debating the industries as a whole and not Blizzard in particular. Characters, Stories etc. etc. absolutely merit artistic protections. 

    Coke is an invention that is copyrighted..the chemical makeup of cokes chemicals is patented...the chemicals in certain percentages in a coke can is protected from people just taking that coke can and repackaging it.  Same as is the code in Blizzard's games.  The actual game is copyrighted or if you think I am wrong go and start a server.
    Sorry

    Coke and Coca-cola are Trademarks. The original formula was "Patented" in 1893 and has long since expired. Coca-Cola has changed there formula over time and have decided to not Patent the new formulas, instead they have decided to keep it a secret, because if they Patent they have to reveal the secret formula and after the Patent expires anyone may copy it.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Tamanous said:
    SBFord said:
    Tamanous said:
    SBFord said:

    The point is getting Blizzard to adopt a better acceptance of emulators like what was done with EQ. The people playing vanilla wow are Blizzard fans! Yet Blizzard continues to stomp of them.

    They are only illegal because Blizzard is making it so not allowing an alternative solution that would actually be in their favor.

    This problem entirely goes away if Blizzard took ownership of it.
    As the owner of the IP, it is their right to do what they wish with it. They've strongly and repeatedly stated they do NOT want to run vanilla servers. I can guarantee you that if they thought they could make money on a LONG TERM basis out of vanilla servers, they'd do it. Further, I can guarantee that they have conducted the appropriate research into the matter and found it lacking in that respect.

    Blizzard doesn't "owe" anybody, or any group, anything no matter how much people might wish they did.
    I do not feel we are owed anything. I merely state that there is precedence of companies officially adopting emulators instead of hurting what amounts to their fans. Notice I said emulators and not the official code used because I know of their current stance and statements.

    This isn't what they can do legally but what they could do that truly resolves this. They could flat out pay for an emulator and buy it outright because they were so lacking in forethought and lost their own code. The end result now however is they are pissing off fans. That is fact ... and it can be resolved better than this.

    Stomping out vanilla servers is like the current war on drugs. Nothing is resolved.

    Activision purchased and dissolved more indie studios than nearly all others and could simply throw an emulator officially under a child company that doesn't carry their name upfront but fans know they at least have official support.
    Except the acceptance of p99 has been a mistake by DBG. The EQ TLP servers aren't a success. They have a very modest server population compared to the live servers. There wasn't a mass influx from p99.

    It sounded good on paper and it was noble for DBG to give them the benefit of the doubt, but "vanilla" or progression servers have not proven a success in the long run. Condoning the p99 server did not help DBG EQ player numbers or their revenue in any significant way, if at all.

    The war on drugs analogy is ludicrous. We're talking about an actively invested IP where people spend time and money developing the product. The war on piracy may be futile, but rolling over for it makes no sense either.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,200
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    SBFord said:
    Herase said:
    Why? People do realize this was a voluntary project right and no profits were being made of this?

    Even so, are we honestly going to say blizz, a multi million dollar company was upset over a tiny private server?

    Someone said would I care if I was blizz? Fuck no, why would I? The only time It would cross my mind is if I knew I was doing a utter shit job and someone was doing it better than me.

    When people cheer and jump up an down to these kinds of things when it has no effect on them what so ever, it tends to be out of fear or desperation.

    So I feel there is a lot more to this than meets the eye imho

    It is both a legal issue and a matter of principle. These administrators neither own the intellectual property rights to World of Warcraft nor did they expend the effort to create the game, both of which require copious amounts of money to do and something Blizzard did. Legally, they have every right to shut down that server and any other for what amounts to theft.

    Put another way: Let's say you wrote a best-selling novel that made millions and then made revisions that some people did not like. If those upset people took your book, a thing created with your blood, sweat and tears, and made copies to sell to all other disaffected people, would you not be upset? I would. My creation, my right to sell and profit from it.

    While these folks may not "profit" from their activities, I'll bet there's a prominent "donate" button to keep the servers running. While not profit in their pockets, it amounts to the same thing since without the donations, they could not keep things going.

    Lastly, the "offer" to give server information to "anyone who wants to make their own private server speaks to their high and mighty ideals, doesn't it?
    Let's say you invested millions or billions inventing a medical device that improves the quality of millions of lives. Or a popular consumer product that makes your life easier and more enjoyable. Products you actually have to purchase raw materials for and manufacture, where you have to risk money to produce them period. 

    In the U.S. you would have 20 years of protection before others can knock off your product.  Your intellectual property has an expiry date.

    Why should the games industry be treated differently? Why is their intellectual property protected perpetually?

    Your Government is being strongly lobbied to change the laws concerning pharmaceutical patents. The pharmaceutical companies want their intellectual property to be protected perpetually just like the games industry. Their arguments sound just as legitimate as yours.

    It would be a sad sad day for the every day working stiff, if that ever comes to pass.      
    The idea they can take your exact product they cannot.  They would have to take the time to actually MAKE the product not just take the other companies product and slap their label on it.  In this case they are not even changing the label.  Your example is wrong stop using it.
    Oh Really?

    So I can manufacture a boardgame called Monopoly and sell it can I?

    that is where your stupid patent thing comes in.  Monopoly, Blizzards code, the medical equipment they have copyrights to the actual product.  You can make a game based on the idea of Monopoly, Wow used Game Workshop's ideas, and you could make a medical equipment based off the idea....but 20 year thing is not right.  Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.  No one can take your product and just distribute it as their own under the law.
    Sorry your wrong.

    You can't copyright an invention and an invention is an intellectual property just like a game or a book.

    Anyone can knock off my invention after my patent has expired. You just can't use my name or Trademarks. Just like after a pharmaceutical patent expires, a generic knockoff will be able to enter the market and again names and Trademarks will apply other than that it can be a complete copy.

    I am also wrong on in that a copyright is not perpetual. It is in effect for the author's life plus 50-100 years. Copyrights legislation is also under review as we speak, mainly due to software and electronic media

    Things start getting blurry. Software products don't necessarily equate to requiring artistic protections. A copy of SolidWorks or Simply Accounting is closer to a tool or a widget than a "Lord of the Rings"

    I am also debating the industries as a whole and not Blizzard in particular. Characters, Stories etc. etc. absolutely merit artistic protections. 

    Coke is an invention that is copyrighted..the chemical makeup of cokes chemicals is patented...the chemicals in certain percentages in a coke can is protected from people just taking that coke can and repackaging it.  Same as is the code in Blizzard's games.  The actual game is copyrighted or if you think I am wrong go and start a server.
    Sorry

    Coke and Coca-cola are Trademarks. The original formula was "Patented" in 1893 and has long since expired. Coca-Cola has changed there formula over time and have decided to not Patent the new formulas, instead they have decided to keep it a secret, because if they Patent they have to reveal the secret formula and after the Patent expires anyone may copy it.

    copyrights and trademarks are the same thing...one covers literary and artistic works and the other physical items that define a company...say like Blizzards games.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,227
    Torval said:
    Varking said:
    I dunno guys... maybe Blizzard plans on adding time locked vanilla style servers so this is the start? None of us know what is going on behind the scenes.
    I don't see blizzard purposely splitting up their subscriber base like that. The people who want to play current WoW will lose ALOT of people to play with, the bitching and unsubs will commence with a fury. Every time locked server would have a small community who would probably start bitching for "improvements" to fit their rose colored vision of their favorite xpac.
    Not sure about that. EQ2 does just fine doing it. In fact I had guildies come back to play EQ2 just because of the TLE
    Sorry Blue, I have to disagree with you this time. I see it just like Shivinski paints it. On EQ they've been a very mild success. For EQ2 they've nearly been a failure.
    • They've closed down one of the two EQ2 servers.
    • The TLE community is constantly asks for special features, updates, and exceptions.
    • They have to split their resources between TLE and Live. They're managing two different xpac updates now. They have two different balance sets to maintain and two different bug chains.
    • This has split the community not only in resource requests, but as a whole. The TLE community on the forums constantly makes comments about how shit the Live game is while still requesting features like Chrono Mage, Channeler, Beast Master, and holiday events that aren't part of the current expansion. It's understandable that players posture for their favorite, but I think it illustrates how it has created another rift in the community.
    I don't think DBG really thought this through all the way, or if they did they ignored the problems for the short term revenue gains they made. Based on the server status indicator that pve TLE server has gone from constantly full to usually medium or medium low. It sometimes hits medium high, but it seems like a good chunk of players have either gone back to live or just stopped playing period.

    @Torval

    I agree DMG is not Blizzard which is kind of my point. If DBG can create a service similar to what these people say they want from WOW then Blizzard of all companies could make it happen and make it work. Look at what  Blizzard does and has created a business doing. Taking an idea created by someone else and recreating it in their own image with their unique spin and polish on it. A vanilla server or two for WOW could be done by a Blizzard because they have the resources and labor to do it. Plus with EQ2 you do not see popular private servers popup and DMG call for them to be shut down. Perhaps EQ2 classic was perceived as a bigger need than was there. With WOW that has proven to not be the case. There is a need for servers that bring back the Vanilla WOW experience. As is evident by all the private servers for WOW all around the world.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,273
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    SBFord said:
    Herase said:
    Why? People do realize this was a voluntary project right and no profits were being made of this?

    Even so, are we honestly going to say blizz, a multi million dollar company was upset over a tiny private server?

    Someone said would I care if I was blizz? Fuck no, why would I? The only time It would cross my mind is if I knew I was doing a utter shit job and someone was doing it better than me.

    When people cheer and jump up an down to these kinds of things when it has no effect on them what so ever, it tends to be out of fear or desperation.

    So I feel there is a lot more to this than meets the eye imho

    It is both a legal issue and a matter of principle. These administrators neither own the intellectual property rights to World of Warcraft nor did they expend the effort to create the game, both of which require copious amounts of money to do and something Blizzard did. Legally, they have every right to shut down that server and any other for what amounts to theft.

    Put another way: Let's say you wrote a best-selling novel that made millions and then made revisions that some people did not like. If those upset people took your book, a thing created with your blood, sweat and tears, and made copies to sell to all other disaffected people, would you not be upset? I would. My creation, my right to sell and profit from it.

    While these folks may not "profit" from their activities, I'll bet there's a prominent "donate" button to keep the servers running. While not profit in their pockets, it amounts to the same thing since without the donations, they could not keep things going.

    Lastly, the "offer" to give server information to "anyone who wants to make their own private server speaks to their high and mighty ideals, doesn't it?
    Let's say you invested millions or billions inventing a medical device that improves the quality of millions of lives. Or a popular consumer product that makes your life easier and more enjoyable. Products you actually have to purchase raw materials for and manufacture, where you have to risk money to produce them period. 

    In the U.S. you would have 20 years of protection before others can knock off your product.  Your intellectual property has an expiry date.

    Why should the games industry be treated differently? Why is their intellectual property protected perpetually?

    Your Government is being strongly lobbied to change the laws concerning pharmaceutical patents. The pharmaceutical companies want their intellectual property to be protected perpetually just like the games industry. Their arguments sound just as legitimate as yours.

    It would be a sad sad day for the every day working stiff, if that ever comes to pass.      
    The idea they can take your exact product they cannot.  They would have to take the time to actually MAKE the product not just take the other companies product and slap their label on it.  In this case they are not even changing the label.  Your example is wrong stop using it.
    Oh Really?

    So I can manufacture a boardgame called Monopoly and sell it can I?

    that is where your stupid patent thing comes in.  Monopoly, Blizzards code, the medical equipment they have copyrights to the actual product.  You can make a game based on the idea of Monopoly, Wow used Game Workshop's ideas, and you could make a medical equipment based off the idea....but 20 year thing is not right.  Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.  No one can take your product and just distribute it as their own under the law.
    Sorry your wrong.

    You can't copyright an invention and an invention is an intellectual property just like a game or a book.

    Anyone can knock off my invention after my patent has expired. You just can't use my name or Trademarks. Just like after a pharmaceutical patent expires, a generic knockoff will be able to enter the market and again names and Trademarks will apply other than that it can be a complete copy.

    I am also wrong on in that a copyright is not perpetual. It is in effect for the author's life plus 50-100 years. Copyrights legislation is also under review as we speak, mainly due to software and electronic media

    Things start getting blurry. Software products don't necessarily equate to requiring artistic protections. A copy of SolidWorks or Simply Accounting is closer to a tool or a widget than a "Lord of the Rings"

    I am also debating the industries as a whole and not Blizzard in particular. Characters, Stories etc. etc. absolutely merit artistic protections. 

    Coke is an invention that is copyrighted..the chemical makeup of cokes chemicals is patented...the chemicals in certain percentages in a coke can is protected from people just taking that coke can and repackaging it.  Same as is the code in Blizzard's games.  The actual game is copyrighted or if you think I am wrong go and start a server.
    Sorry

    Coke and Coca-cola are Trademarks. The original formula was "Patented" in 1893 and has long since expired. Coca-Cola has changed there formula over time and have decided to not Patent the new formulas, instead they have decided to keep it a secret, because if they Patent they have to reveal the secret formula and after the Patent expires anyone may copy it.

    copyrights and trademarks are the same thing...one covers literary and artistic works and the other physical items that define a company...say like Blizzards games.
    http://zvulony.ca/2010/articles/intellectual-property-law/understanding-intellectual-property-law/

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,200
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    SBFord said:
    Herase said:
    Why? People do realize this was a voluntary project right and no profits were being made of this?

    Even so, are we honestly going to say blizz, a multi million dollar company was upset over a tiny private server?

    Someone said would I care if I was blizz? Fuck no, why would I? The only time It would cross my mind is if I knew I was doing a utter shit job and someone was doing it better than me.

    When people cheer and jump up an down to these kinds of things when it has no effect on them what so ever, it tends to be out of fear or desperation.

    So I feel there is a lot more to this than meets the eye imho

    It is both a legal issue and a matter of principle. These administrators neither own the intellectual property rights to World of Warcraft nor did they expend the effort to create the game, both of which require copious amounts of money to do and something Blizzard did. Legally, they have every right to shut down that server and any other for what amounts to theft.

    Put another way: Let's say you wrote a best-selling novel that made millions and then made revisions that some people did not like. If those upset people took your book, a thing created with your blood, sweat and tears, and made copies to sell to all other disaffected people, would you not be upset? I would. My creation, my right to sell and profit from it.

    While these folks may not "profit" from their activities, I'll bet there's a prominent "donate" button to keep the servers running. While not profit in their pockets, it amounts to the same thing since without the donations, they could not keep things going.

    Lastly, the "offer" to give server information to "anyone who wants to make their own private server speaks to their high and mighty ideals, doesn't it?
    Let's say you invested millions or billions inventing a medical device that improves the quality of millions of lives. Or a popular consumer product that makes your life easier and more enjoyable. Products you actually have to purchase raw materials for and manufacture, where you have to risk money to produce them period. 

    In the U.S. you would have 20 years of protection before others can knock off your product.  Your intellectual property has an expiry date.

    Why should the games industry be treated differently? Why is their intellectual property protected perpetually?

    Your Government is being strongly lobbied to change the laws concerning pharmaceutical patents. The pharmaceutical companies want their intellectual property to be protected perpetually just like the games industry. Their arguments sound just as legitimate as yours.

    It would be a sad sad day for the every day working stiff, if that ever comes to pass.      
    The idea they can take your exact product they cannot.  They would have to take the time to actually MAKE the product not just take the other companies product and slap their label on it.  In this case they are not even changing the label.  Your example is wrong stop using it.
    Oh Really?

    So I can manufacture a boardgame called Monopoly and sell it can I?

    that is where your stupid patent thing comes in.  Monopoly, Blizzards code, the medical equipment they have copyrights to the actual product.  You can make a game based on the idea of Monopoly, Wow used Game Workshop's ideas, and you could make a medical equipment based off the idea....but 20 year thing is not right.  Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.  No one can take your product and just distribute it as their own under the law.
    Sorry your wrong.

    You can't copyright an invention and an invention is an intellectual property just like a game or a book.

    Anyone can knock off my invention after my patent has expired. You just can't use my name or Trademarks. Just like after a pharmaceutical patent expires, a generic knockoff will be able to enter the market and again names and Trademarks will apply other than that it can be a complete copy.

    I am also wrong on in that a copyright is not perpetual. It is in effect for the author's life plus 50-100 years. Copyrights legislation is also under review as we speak, mainly due to software and electronic media

    Things start getting blurry. Software products don't necessarily equate to requiring artistic protections. A copy of SolidWorks or Simply Accounting is closer to a tool or a widget than a "Lord of the Rings"

    I am also debating the industries as a whole and not Blizzard in particular. Characters, Stories etc. etc. absolutely merit artistic protections. 

    Coke is an invention that is copyrighted..the chemical makeup of cokes chemicals is patented...the chemicals in certain percentages in a coke can is protected from people just taking that coke can and repackaging it.  Same as is the code in Blizzard's games.  The actual game is copyrighted or if you think I am wrong go and start a server.
    Sorry

    Coke and Coca-cola are Trademarks. The original formula was "Patented" in 1893 and has long since expired. Coca-Cola has changed there formula over time and have decided to not Patent the new formulas, instead they have decided to keep it a secret, because if they Patent they have to reveal the secret formula and after the Patent expires anyone may copy it.

    copyrights and trademarks are the same thing...one covers literary and artistic works and the other physical items that define a company...say like Blizzards games.
    http://zvulony.ca/2010/articles/intellectual-property-law/understanding-intellectual-property-law/

    think you for proving me right.  "Copyright is the right to reproduce a work. The owner of the copyright in an original work, performance, or recording has the exclusive right to copy it, to decide how it will be published and distributed, to keep it from being modified against his or her wishes, and to profit from it."

    The actual game World of Warcraft is protected...and copyrights can be extended.
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Copyright and trademark are "pretty much the same" in the sense neither is as a Clydesdale or a snorkel, but in legal terms, they're completely different protections. The former gives license to who may duplicate an item or likeness. The latter is a representative symbol or name of an ip or "brand", which is protected to preserve the integrity of an entity name or identity.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,200
    edited April 2016
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Copyright and trademark are "pretty much the same" in the sense neither is as a Clydesdale or a snorkel, but in legal terms, they're completely different protections. The former gives license to who may duplicate an item or likeness. The latter is a representative symbol or name of an ip or "brand", which is protected to preserve the integrity of an entity name or identity.

    not different "protections" just different in what they protect.  Both stop unauthorized use of items.


    The Difference Between Copyright and Trademark. While both offer intellectual property protection, they protect different types of assets. Copyright is geared toward literary and artistic works, such as books and videos. A trademark protects items that help define a company brand, such as its logo.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    I hope they'l manage to reorganize someplace safe, Russia or anywhere far enough from Blizz's hands. I'd be very happy to help, as I did before and during previous launch.

    Meantime, you can sign that little sexy petition. Who knows!?
    I dunno James, that just seems wrong to me. I mean how would you feel about people putting up private servers for CU, Crowfall, or a game near and dear to you because they don't like some balance change or update, or maybe more honestly know they can play the game for free instead of having to pay the sub? I know if it was my work or a project I was heavily invested in that I wouldn't appreciate it.

    It's Blizzard's game. Theirs to ruin if they want. It's not ours to do with as we please because we disagree with them. I would enjoy a WoW server from the time WotLK just launched. I would absolutely love to play Lineage 1 again. I could do both on private servers, but I won't even though I do feel screwed over several times by NCSoft.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,273
    @Horusra ;

    Proving you right?

    My argument was and is that many of the copyright laws are antiquated and Bullshit. That "some" of these laws and regulations need to be changed and modernized to more coincide and be more equal to a manufactured consumer product. Because basically that's what many of these products are.

    What have you proved?

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,200
    laserit said:
    @Horusra ;

    Proving you right?

    My argument was and is that many of the copyright laws are antiquated and Bullshit. That "some" of these laws and regulations need to be changed and modernized to more coincide and be more equal to a manufactured consumer product. Because basically that's what many of these products are.

    What have you proved?

    this argument started over was World of Warcraft a patent or a copyright.  As to your thoughts on copyright law since it is opinion I disagree...I could agree if a product line was not in production or use that those copyrights should be easier to overcome.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,273
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    @Horusra ;

    Proving you right?

    My argument was and is that many of the copyright laws are antiquated and Bullshit. That "some" of these laws and regulations need to be changed and modernized to more coincide and be more equal to a manufactured consumer product. Because basically that's what many of these products are.

    What have you proved?

    this argument started over was World of Warcraft a patent or a copyright.  As to your thoughts on copyright law since it is opinion I disagree...I could agree if a product line was not in production or use that those copyrights should be easier to overcome.
    Sorry respectfully you're mistaken

    This exchange started with me stating that I thought that it was bullshit that a copyright lasted perpetually while a patent only lasted for only 20 years. That they are both intellectual properties. I was actually in error with perpetual as it's the author's lifetime + 50-100 years. But still why is an Artist's investment and creation given such a value over an inventor's investment and creation?

    I believe a copyright lasts for far too long.

    This is debate and of course it's opinion.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,200
    laserit said:
    Horusra said:
    laserit said:
    @Horusra ;

    Proving you right?

    My argument was and is that many of the copyright laws are antiquated and Bullshit. That "some" of these laws and regulations need to be changed and modernized to more coincide and be more equal to a manufactured consumer product. Because basically that's what many of these products are.

    What have you proved?

    this argument started over was World of Warcraft a patent or a copyright.  As to your thoughts on copyright law since it is opinion I disagree...I could agree if a product line was not in production or use that those copyrights should be easier to overcome.
    Sorry respectfully you're mistaken

    This exchange started with me stating that I thought that it was bullshit that a copyright lasted perpetually while a patent only lasted for only 20 years. That they are both intellectual properties. I was actually in error with perpetual as it's the author's lifetime + 50-100 years. But still why is an Artist's investment and creation given such a value over an inventor's investment and creation?

    I believe a copyright lasts for far too long.

    This is debate and of course it's opinion.

    copyright does have to be reapplied for.  About the only thing I could see is adding in a clause where the item has to be shown to still be actively used or no copyright.  Not sure if something like that exists already.
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